Epson Home Cinema LS100 UST HD Laser Projector at CEDIA 2017 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 233 Old 09-09-2017, 02:27 PM
 
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Ok I'm definitely pumped after reading the initial impressions for this projector. Can anyone tell me if this projector has to be used with a special screen optimized for short throw projectors?

I only use alr screens.

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post #62 of 233 Old 09-09-2017, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
Ok I'm definitely pumped after reading the review for this projector. Can anyone tell me if this projector has to be used with a special screen optimized for short throw projectors?

I only use alr screens.

What review are you referring to? Edit....I see you've changed your post to 'impressions' ( :thumbs up: I was just wondering if there was an official review I missed


As far as the screen goes, theoretically, you could use any 'standard' screen' I believe. I'm talking about straight on, basic flat/1.0 gain white screens. I have a Carada 1.3 gain which I think would work fine also, as it's not too crazy with it's properties and such.

As far as negative gain screens go, those would probably work as well.

I think the 'problem' you might run into is trying to use a standard ALR screen. From what I've read, you have to use an ALR screen specifically designed for UST projectors, if that is the route you want to go. They are designed to reject ceiling ambient light, but let the UST projector shine through (something like that )

I'm excited about this projector as well. I think a standard low cost negative gain screen could/would work with this projector. I hate waiting for official reviews...but this particular unit has my attention for sure.

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post #63 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Not just to those who need UST but also those who want to view in ambient light, which JVC users typically avoid like the plague. They are in no way direct competitors as JVC models have great native black levels that are at their best in the dark while the LS100 has great perceived black levels in ambient light as described by John Archer:
the 3700 would be just as bright, has many more features and is much cheaper
you could buy the nice ALR screen and still be under the LS100

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post #64 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 10:55 AM
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the 3700 would be just as bright, has many more features and is much cheaper
you could buy the nice ALR screen and still be under the LS100
What is the 3700?

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post #65 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 11:14 AM
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What is the 3700?
It's the Epson 3700 projector...a non-UST 'standard' projector, that's less than half the cost of the LS100. It's lamp based, and has a so-so native contrast (it's not in Epson's UB/Ultrablack lineup).
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post #66 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
Ok I'm definitely pumped after reading the initial impressions for this projector. Can anyone tell me if this projector has to be used with a special screen optimized for short throw projectors?

I only use alr screens.
No but from reading experiences on this forum and elsewhere, users are typically underwhelmed when using a UST projector with a non UST screen. Due to the extreme throw angle the proper screen really is necessary for best pq and the perceived contrast Mr. Archer wrote about.
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post #67 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post
Question about UST projectors in general: Is the projected image height adjustable, similar somewhat to vertical lens shift? Or is it completely stationary, and you just "get what you get" as far as that goes?

I'm assuming distance from wall will dictate image size, positioning in the middle (or otherwise if lens is offset) will center the picture, and distance from wall will change size, just didn't know about 'upward throw height'.


I'd like to know about vertical shift too. My screen is very low to my cabinet, housing all of my av equipment. I only have a 7.5 foot ceiling in my basement.


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post #68 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 12:10 PM
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I'd like to know about vertical shift too. My screen is very low to my cabinet, housing all of my av equipment. I only have a 7.5 foot ceiling in my basement.


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Yeah, not sure about the adjustments we'll have (if any)..my screen is about 8 inches above the height of my media console. Current screen is 106", and distance from wall is somewhat 'adjustable'. I hope it doesn't throw too high, cause then I'd have to figure out how to shorten the legs on my media cabinet lol
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post #69 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 12:28 PM
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No but from reading experiences on this forum and elsewhere, users are typically underwhelmed when using a UST projector with a non UST screen. Due to the extreme throw angle the proper screen really is necessary for best pq and the perceived contrast Mr. Archer wrote about.
I don't think a "UST screen" is necessary for UST projectors in general...I think what comes into play is when one wants to use an ALR solution with a UST projector.

I'm sure most people want to use a UST projector in combination with an ALR screen to "replace" a giant TV, especially for daytime viewing...I'm just interested in this projector because of the cost, brightness, and LAZERS .

My main goal is to replace my current projector with a laser light source, use it with my current 'normal' screen, and view at night with movies, playing games, things as usual.

I'm pretty sure Epson will release a standard throw laser based projector pretty soon that is on par with their standard line up. Not the pricey LS10500, but their usual LCD based models replaced with a laser based light engine (think 5040UB with laser instead of lamp).

I still think a grey screen with this many lumens would satisfy normal 'night time/dark' movie viewing, as I've been doing for the last 10 years. I really want to like/love this projector, but only time will tell.

Everyone has their specific needs of course.
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post #70 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 01:49 PM
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I wish JVC would come down on their lamp prices.
I wish everyone would come down with lamp prices! When we see that happen with JVC, Sony, BenQ, and the rest, then I'm wondering how the laser/LED market will respond. LED has a real chance with the size of their models, but... I need some brightness with my screen, and would like to see JVC and Sony under $3K with 4K.

The reality is that if someone NEEDS UST, then this may be a good choice. But, I'm not all that excited. The price is pretty high, it may not stack up in reviews against projectors that are half the price. You do have very limited placement flexibility...

I really do wait for reviews before I dig my heels in, but those excited should keep their expectations in check and look at the many other options are already out there. I'm a constant pessimist on new products because the hype is often not the reality.

As well, people don't get that UST demands a flat screen, so it is horrendous for pull down screen setups.

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post #71 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
the 3700 would be just as bright, has many more features and is much cheaper
you could buy the nice ALR screen and still be under the LS100
"many more features"...what are you referring to exactly? this projector hasn't even been released yet...I think all speculation should be withheld until it arrives...IMHO
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post #72 of 233 Old 09-10-2017, 10:43 PM
 
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What is the 3700?
Lol
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post #73 of 233 Old 09-11-2017, 09:05 AM
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Lol
When you reach your late 70's and can't remember **** you won't LOL anymore!

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post #74 of 233 Old 09-11-2017, 09:21 AM
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When you reach your late 70's and can't remember **** you won't LOL anymore!
Geez!!! It gets worse? In my mid forties and I'm already losing it.

To make things worse Epson went and released a 2150. Now we will never know if people are talking about Epson or BenQ.

What a stupid hobby.

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post #75 of 233 Old 09-11-2017, 09:43 AM
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Geez!!! It gets worse? In my mid forties and I'm already losing it.
Only by a factor of 2 or 3! I can't even remember what it was like to be in my mid forties.
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post #76 of 233 Old 09-11-2017, 11:24 AM
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I feel like every piece of projector news I read these days is a few moments of elation followed by profound disappointment.
I would say it is pointless to whine, still, i see this as an incredibly nice move in the right direction - first of all, is it a true laser source with 4K lumens in the $3K price segment.
Second is the form factor - it is relatively nice small box. So, what is needed now is to pair it with a proper lens to be ceiling mounted, keep same nice slim body and put there 5040 pseudo 4K resolution, price it in same $3K area and sell it to me in 2018.

Realistically, most content i have and will have will remain in 1080p, I only want 4k or 5k lumens, for properly working bright 3D animation for kids, bright laser light source and QUIET operation in the small box on the ceiling, not this stupid monstrosity of 5040. Even 3700 i have on the ceiling now is unreasonably big to my taste, hopefully new laser model will shrink down in size.
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post #77 of 233 Old 09-11-2017, 12:16 PM
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You are not alone, I feel the same way.

Still after 10 years, no breakthrough with LED projectors, no affordable lasers, no 4k except faux(which is pretty good, but still), the new JVC lineup seems like yet another milk lineup without any significant improvements on any front. Sony and epson can't bring their contrast A game any further, but yet still all the products cost thousands of euros with just minimal improvements or just fixing the last year models bugs.

This is just sad how little happens in 5 years in this department. I'm really considering buying 65" OLED and moving myself a little bit closer to the screen.
Yeah, compared to flat panels and even the progression of projector technology itself in the last 10-15 years, current-day consumer-grade projector tech is moving at a snail's pace. Probably wouldn't be so frustrating if we weren't having a new format pushed on us. A format that projectors under $25k can't fully take advantage of. "Hey!!--check out this new format with 4K, HDR, and a wider color gamut!! Exciting, right??!! ... Ok, now pick two of those if you want a screen over 65" and don't want to spend over $20,000..."

I honestly haven't seen the appeal of 4K except for on a projector-sized screen. 4K has been hard enough for projector manufacturers to deliver (and that's suspicious enough in itself) and now we've also got HDR and the wider color gamuts that they're supposed to add to their 'to-do' list? If you're going to shove a new format down our throats, at least wait until the displays that enthusiasts use can display the damn thing. And by "shove" I mean things like only putting the Atmos tracks on the UHD discs.
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post #78 of 233 Old 09-11-2017, 12:44 PM
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Crap, I see the aspect ratio is 16x10 for this model.

Also, one person reports this unit does not have lens shift.

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post #79 of 233 Old 09-12-2017, 12:18 PM
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Crap, I see the aspect ratio is 16x10 for this model.

Also, one person reports this unit does not have lens shift.
Yeah, I read 1920 X 1200 resolution, which is odd for a "home theater" projector. It might have something to do with accepting 4K resolution signals to process them 'better', but what does that mean for all of us with 16:9 screens?

Can a 1920x1200 projector correctly project/fit onto a 16:9 screen?

I understand trickery to get the most out of a 4K signal, but what about normal/standard viewing for this 'TV replacement'???
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post #80 of 233 Old 09-12-2017, 12:26 PM
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Yeah, I read 1920 X 1200 resolution, which is odd for a "home theater" projector. It might have something to do with accepting 4K resolution signals to process them 'better', but what does that mean for all of us with 16:9 screens?

Can a 1920x1200 projector correctly project/fit onto a 16:9 screen?

I understand trickery to get the most out of a 4K signal, but what about normal/standard viewing for this 'TV replacement'???
Typically a 1920x1200 projector will have a menu setting for 'screen aspect ratio'. You set it to 16:9 and it will automatically stop using the top and bottom 80 pixels, leaving you with 1920x1080 resolution in full use. WUXGA is a very common resolution for commercial projectors, which this may likewise be targeted for.

Lens shift is EXTREMELY unheard of with UST projectors. As is zoom. You have to get these projectors absolutely perfectly positioned and it needs a dead on flat screen for it to work right. I hate setting up UST projectors, and rarely are they setup perfectly when I see them installed.

Still, it's nice.

Waiting on a short throw 1080p home theater model from Epson still. Surprised they don't have one.
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post #81 of 233 Old 09-12-2017, 12:34 PM
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Typically a 1920x1200 projector will have a menu setting for 'screen aspect ratio'. You set it to 16:9 and it will automatically stop using the top and bottom 80 pixels, leaving you with 1920x1080 resolution in full use. WUXGA is a very common resolution for commercial projectors, which this may likewise be targeted for.

Lens shift is EXTREMELY unheard of with UST projectors. As is zoom. You have to get these projectors absolutely perfectly positioned and it needs a dead on flat screen for it to work right. I hate setting up UST projectors, and rarely are they setup perfectly when I see them installed.

Still, it's nice.

Waiting on a short throw 1080p home theater model from Epson still. Surprised they don't have one.
Thanks for the info...I guess I'm confused because all I read about this unit is it's a "TV Replacement".

Sorry for the big and bold words below, but this is directly from Epson's "news" website:

Epson Home Cinema LS100 Laser Display Reinvents the Home High Definition Viewing Experience for Movies, Video, TV, and Gaming



Words like "Home Cinema, Movies, TV, etc...." has me a bit baffled. It doesn't seem like this is intended for commercial/business applications, right?? Not that that is what you are saying, but you mention a "Home Theater Model".....that's what their marketing hype is implying to me.

I have a perfectly flat, permanent wall mounted screen with a media console table and the projector would sit about 8" below the 106" screen.

I'm willing to give it a try. I just hope it has the options I'm looking for, like blanking top and bottom pixels to 16:9 and such.

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post #82 of 233 Old 09-12-2017, 01:15 PM
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Thanks for the info...I guess I'm confused because all I read about this unit is it's a "TV Replacement".

Sorry for the big and bold words below, but this is directly from Epson's "news" website:

Epson Home Cinema LS100 Laser Display Reinvents the Home High Definition Viewing Experience for Movies, Video, TV, and Gaming



Words like "Home Cinema, Movies, TV, etc...." has me a bit baffled. It doesn't seem like this is intended for commercial/business applications, right?? Not that that is what you are saying, but you mention a "Home Theater Model".....that's what their marketing hype is implying to me.

I have a perfectly flat, permanent wall mounted screen with a media console table and the projector would sit about 8" below the 106" screen.

I'm willing to give it a try. I just hope it has the options I'm looking for, like blanking top and bottom pixels to 16:9 and such.
Epson has been producing UST projectors for commercial applications for a long time, where the 16:10 ratio is common. This is the first using a laser light source. It's likely that, rather than developing from the ground up, they took an existing commercial model and built the laser into it. With the lumens boost and contrast performance and ease of maintenance, they can now market it for home entertainment use.
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post #83 of 233 Old 09-12-2017, 01:27 PM
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I'd wait until the full owners manual is up on their site before ordering... to make sure its has the options you need... you don't want to end up with a multiple thousand dollar mistake
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post #84 of 233 Old 09-12-2017, 02:47 PM
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This snapshot I took from rave YouTube video shows lens shift- motorized V-H
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post #85 of 233 Old 09-13-2017, 01:58 AM
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This snapshot I took from rave YouTube video shows lens shift- motorized V-H
That's interesting. Maybe it can do CIH. We'll see.
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post #86 of 233 Old 09-13-2017, 05:45 AM
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I would guess I likely represent many other's sentiment about this: yes, absolutely it's nice to see a laser-based PJ at this price point.

BUT, it's become pretty clear- especially so, given Sony's introduction of a native $5K unit last week- that (a) real 4K PJ'(s) is/are finally ready to hit the sweet-spot for mere mortals like myself.

Therefore, I simply CANNOT throw $3,000 at another 1080 stop-gap PJ and kick myself a year later. Especially seeing I just grabbed a 45ES (which is a very nice unit for $1800) just 6 months ago.

Gonna have to wait to jump to 4K at this point, I assume a good number are in a similar position.

My $.02

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post #87 of 233 Old 09-13-2017, 07:17 AM
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This snapshot I took from rave YouTube video shows lens shift- motorized V-H
Interesting indeed. Could be a lifesaver when setting it up, and not be a total PITA to do so. The unit, from the pictures I've seen, looks pretty symmetrical, so I don't see as much need for horizontal lens shift as I do for vertical.

Once you put in on the ground, or a table/console, you really have no idea how high or low it's going to shoot unless you have the manual handy with measurement charts. I hope everyone, including myself, is pleasantly surprised with this unit.
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post #88 of 233 Old 09-13-2017, 07:26 AM
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Once you put in on the ground, or a table/console, you really have no idea how high or low it's going to shoot unless you have the manual handy with measurement charts. I hope everyone, including myself, is pleasantly surprised with this unit.
I'm in the same scenario as you in terms of screen size (106") and distance to the bottom of the screen to project from table top (~8"). My fixed frame is flush against the top of my ceiling so it's not like I have another 1-2 feet to adjust my screen upwards.

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post #89 of 233 Old 09-13-2017, 09:16 AM
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I'm in the same scenario as you in terms of screen size (106") and distance to the bottom of the screen to project from table top (~8"). My fixed frame is flush against the top of my ceiling so it's not like I have another 1-2 feet to adjust my screen upwards.
I hope those aren't just marketing tricks written on that label in the picture and there is actually a little of play with the projected height/vertical lens shifting of some sort. Like you're saying, If it's projected too high from your table, you'll have to do some shortening of the table somehow (assuming you like and want to keep the projector).

I fortunately have the ability to mount my screen a 'little' higher, maybe another 8" before it's flush against the ceiling. Either way, it looks like we could both benefit from vertical adjustments.

I've read that any adjustments done to the projectors resting place results in quite dramatic changes when dealing with a UST projector. Not the worst thing in the world per se, but maybe that would apply to vertical adjustment as well..small changes = large differences. It's not like they have to engineer huge lens shifting properties is what I'm saying I guess.

Perfect world be place it on my low profile console table, and adjust projected image height onto existing screen.

Oh well, all we can do is wait at this point.

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post #90 of 233 Old 09-14-2017, 08:08 AM
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There is no indication in their datasheet that this projector has lens shift at all, and while it does claim some zoom range, it then goes on to say 'DIGITAL' for zoom, which is not what any of us want to employ.

This is, by everything I can tell, just another 16:10 UST projector, but using a solid state light source instead of a lamp.

https://www.epson.eu/products/projec...inema/eh-ls100

It may be optimized for home theater use, but I think it is more likely that it is designed to go with a ALR screen in the family room.

Waiting on reviews to see how it stacks up against their 3100/3700/5040. At a higher price than the 5040, it better perform very well.
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