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post #31 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
I have used both lens shift and keystone separately on my benq 1070 and I can't tell the difference.
Whether you see a difference or not there is a difference. The more digital keystone correction used the more likely it is to produce noticeable image degradation, so a click or two of correction might be hard to spot. It will be more visible on the highest definition sources as lower resolution images are already in a sense "degraded" from what the projector is capable of displaying. Some are more sensitive to seeing degradation than others so one size doesn't fit all. Anyone who can use digital keystone correction without seeing any negative effects doesn't have to worry about it.
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post #32 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 12:25 PM
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Yah. Ok. I don’t see it.
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post #33 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Whether you see a difference or not there is a difference. The more digital keystone correction used the more likely it is to produce noticeable image degradation, so a click or two of correction might be hard to spot. It will be more visible on the highest definition sources as lower resolution images are already in a sense "degraded" from what the projector is capable of displaying. Some are more sensitive to seeing degradation than others so one size doesn't fit all. Anyone who can use digital keystone correction without seeing any negative effects doesn't have to worry about it.
This just clicked with me as you typed this, maybe the "border" dead zone pixels in these new DMDs is to allow for digital keystoning without resolution loss.
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post #34 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 01:13 PM
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I'd say while it's not likely extra pixels were added for digital keystone correction it is possible.

Getting back to the question of which DMD is in the UHD50, if you compare its dimensions to the UHD60/65 it's smaller and lighter. In fact the UHD50's size and features are more in line with the BenQ HT2550, which is known to use the smaller 0.47" DMD. It seems part of TI's strategy with the smaller DMD is to allow for smaller, less featured, lower cost projectors. Based on this I think it's more likely the smaller UHD50 uses the smaller 0.47" DMD.
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post #35 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I'd say while it's not likely extra pixels were added for digital keystone correction it is possible.

Getting back to the question of which DMD is in the UHD50, if you compare its dimensions to the UHD60/65 it's smaller and lighter. In fact the UHD50's size and features are more in line with the BenQ HT2550, which is known to use the smaller 0.47" DMD. It seems part of TI's strategy with the smaller DMD is to allow for smaller, less featured, lower cost projectors. Based on this I think it's more likely the smaller UHD50 uses the smaller 0.47" DMD.
It is definitely smaller than the UHD60/65, but then again the Acer V7850 used the 0.66" chip and looks almost identical to the UHD50 in configuration.

I could see them using the 0.47" to keep cost down, but I wouldn't say the size is proof necessarily.
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post #36 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Whether you see a difference or not there is a difference. The more digital keystone correction used the more likely it is to produce noticeable image degradation, so a click or two of correction might be hard to spot. It will be more visible on the highest definition sources as lower resolution images are already in a sense "degraded" from what the projector is capable of displaying. Some are more sensitive to seeing degradation than others so one size doesn't fit all. Anyone who can use digital keystone correction without seeing any negative effects doesn't have to worry about it.
While digital keystone does normally cause problems like you mentioned, with 0.47" 4 way eShift and a ton of overlap between the pixels maybe things are already so far from how a 4K source is supposed to be displayed that digital keystone doesn't degrade the images that much further.

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post #37 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I'd say while it's not likely extra pixels were added for digital keystone correction it is possible.



Getting back to the question of which DMD is in the UHD50, if you compare its dimensions to the UHD60/65 it's smaller and lighter. In fact the UHD50's size and features are more in line with the BenQ HT2550, which is known to use the smaller 0.47" DMD. It seems part of TI's strategy with the smaller DMD is to allow for smaller, less featured, lower cost projectors. Based on this I think it's more likely the smaller UHD50 uses the smaller 0.47" DMD.


I just looked up the data sheet also,

https://www.optomausa.com/uploads/da...0-DS-en-US.pdf

It specifies the .66 chip as well. This could still have errors, however much less likely imo. It’s also possible that they have gotten better at reducing its footprint. Acer’s models have shown that the .66 dmd can fit in a pretty small chassis. I think Optoma may have added some dead space to the uhd60/65, in order to center the lens and make it appear like a more serious home theater projector for its higher price point. Just speculating. You where right about the German reviewer on another thread. So far

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I think I’ll tie it up on this one though.
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post #38 of 1503 Old 01-08-2018, 02:45 PM
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... You where right about the German reviewer on another thread. So far

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I don't keep score because we're all just guessing based on all the messed up data out there and we're all bound to get some right and some wrong.
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post #39 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 02:28 AM
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I just checked the projectorcentral.com database and noticed this was listed as Full HD 3D. I checked the product sheet and on the bottom in fine print it mentions 3D as well. This has potential if the product sheet is correct.
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post #40 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 03:07 AM
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Amazon has it available for pre-order. Their only asking $3,199 that’s just two times the asking price!

Optoma UHD50 4K Ultra High Definition Home Theater Projector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078SVRP61..._RekvAbEVQK6CN
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post #41 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I just checked the projectorcentral.com database and noticed this was listed as Full HD 3D. I checked the product sheet and on the bottom in fine print it mentions 3D as well. This has potential if the product sheet is correct.
I checked with a major dealer, and they said it has 3D, also the selling price will be $1,499. They believe it will be a better projector than the HT2550. Better contrast, lens shift and uses the .67 TI chip. Supposed to hear more about it this week at CES.
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post #42 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 06:28 AM
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What will it cost for the replacement lamps on these two projectors?

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post #43 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 07:09 AM
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What will it cost for the replacement lamps on these two projectors?
BHPhotoVideo has it listed for about $150 for the HT2550.
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post #44 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 07:45 AM
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Damn, UHD50 looks nice ... But unlike all of you guys happy about the short throw on this one, for me it's almost too short, because if I'm gonna fill up my 98", it's gonna hang in a kinda strange way, almost 24 inches from the wall, right next to a door.
Luckily, my ceilings are so high, that there should be exactly enough room to hang it, so I don't bump into it.
But standing underneath, I'll probably be able to feel when it's time for that haircut

Still, judging from the specs currently available, I'd rather have this with a 2-shift 0.66 chip (and maybe mounted in a unique fashion), than the Benq HT2550 4-shift 0.47 chip sitting all neat and tidy ...

Very excited to see some reviews!
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post #45 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 08:07 AM
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Yeah same here on throw distance. This one sounds nice on paper if the spec-u-lation comes to be - for me that is .66 DMD and 3D support. But my throw is going to be ~18 ft, maybe a little longer. And max screen size I am thinking is 150" diagonal. So it just doesn't quite fit. Close enough that hopefully one of those numbers can change slightly, but I would worry about lumens output at 150"+ and full telephoto on the lens.

Good news for me is I don't need to buy for another couple months. Will let all these PJs come out and you guys be the guinea pigs and tell me which one is the best!
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post #46 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 08:48 AM
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It doesn’t make sense that it would be the 0.66 chip. If so the UHD60 owners would be howling right now.


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post #47 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MarcSparks View Post
Yeah same here on throw distance. This one sounds nice on paper if the spec-u-lation comes to be - for me that is .66 DMD and 3D support. But my throw is going to be ~18 ft, maybe a little longer. And max screen size I am thinking is 150" diagonal. So it just doesn't quite fit. Close enough that hopefully one of those numbers can change slightly, but I would worry about lumens output at 150"+ and full telephoto on the lens.



Good news for me is I don't need to buy for another couple months. Will let all these PJs come out and you guys be the guinea pigs and tell me which one is the best!


I can’t image they’ll let their uhd65 be outdone by a model they sell for $1000 less. I’m guessing they’ll come out with a 3D version of the uhd65 or maybe even a firmware update for 3D support.
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post #48 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:17 AM
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post #49 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
It doesn’t make sense that it would be the 0.66 chip. If so the UHD60 owners would be howling right now.


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Consider me howling, just bought the UHD60 6 days ago. Thankfully it seems B&H has a good return policy.
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post #50 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:35 AM
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Either the early data sheet and specs for the UHD50 are wrong about it using the 0.66" DMD or Evan Powell was wrong when he posted in his CES report on projectorcentral.com that it uses the 0.47" DMD. I would not discount either possibility at this point. Anyone specifically wanting to buy a projector with one or the other XPR chip would be wise to wait for clarification before ordering a UHD50.
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post #51 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:50 AM
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There is another "issue" with 3D and the .66 chip. Since that chip has 2716x1528 pixels that shift twice for 4k (8.3 meg pixels), it would have to turn off the shift and use 2716x1528 pixels (4 meg) to show 3D. If it used only 1920x1080 pixels (2 meg), it would have to magnify the center of the chip with some optical device to fill the screen. The .47 chip does not have this "problem." I'm putting issue and problem in quotes as we don't know. That said, if it does use all 4 meg pixels for 3D, then the image would be scaled somewhat and very sharp like passive 3D is on a non-projection TV, which uses the full horizontal width of 3840x1080p for each eye in 3D.

Ooooh, the plot thickens...
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post #52 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 10:18 AM
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I thought I recalled reading when TI's 0.66" XPR chip was introduced that it didn't support 3D. If that's true and hasn't changed then any of these new projector models advertising XPR and 3D would have to have the 0.47" XPR chip to produce 3D.
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post #53 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 10:24 AM
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I think its a .66 chip due to it having vertical lens shift. None of the newly announced .47 chip projectors features vertical lens shift.

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post #54 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
I think its a .66 chip due to it having vertical lens shift. None of the newly announced .47 chip projectors features vertical lens shift.


What does vertical lens shift have to do with the size of the chip?

I don’t think it does.


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post #55 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Either the early data sheet and specs for the UHD50 are wrong about it using the 0.66" DMD or Evan Powell was wrong when he posted in his CES report on projectorcentral.com that it uses the 0.47" DMD. I would not discount either possibility at this point. Anyone specifically wanting to buy a projector with one or the other XPR chip would be wise to wait for clarification before ordering a UHD50.
It could certainly use the 0.66 chip; its footprint and configuration is about the same as the Acer V7850 which is also 0.66.

Much like the UHD550X, Optoma rates the contrast of the UHD50 lower than the UHD60, so there is a good chance it has a weak lens or other aspect of lightpath that despite the RGBRGB wheel still results in lower contrast than the UHD60.

It does appear to be great value for the money though. No way of telling how it really stacks up until someone buys it and compares!
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post #56 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 10:48 AM
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I think its a .66 chip due to it having vertical lens shift. None of the newly announced .47 chip projectors features vertical lens shift.
I believe the reasoning for this is that the 0.47" XPR chip was designed by TI as a lower cost option for lower end projector models. Projectors with the 0.66" XPR chip tend to have more features such as lens shift and lenses with greater zoom range and are generally priced higher than those with the 0.47" chip.
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post #57 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I thought I recalled reading when TI's 0.66" XPR chip was introduced that it didn't support 3D. If that's true and hasn't changed then any of these new projector models advertising XPR and 3D would have to have the 0.47" XPR chip to produce 3D.
There have been statements either way. At CES last year, Optoma said that they were going to implement 3D on the UHD60. But later probably decided they wanted to bring it to market sooner, so opted out of doing it. It wouldn't surprise me that they finally got it working for the UHD50. Plus they had so many 1080p projectors with 3D, I don't think they cared either way as 4K was the big splash last year and 3D was dead.
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post #58 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
I think its a .66 chip due to it having vertical lens shift. None of the newly announced .47 chip projectors features vertical lens shift.

Lens shift shouldn't be affected by the type of DMD used. However, it would be fairly safe to assume that the .67 DMD is more expensive to produce and purchase than the .47 DMD as it is a larger chip with more micromirrors. If you're a projector manufacturer buying these in bulk you're probably going to put the larger, more expensive chip in your more expensive projector to offset the cost of the chip. More expensive projectors are expected to have more features.

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post #59 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 11:17 AM
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Lens shift shouldn't be affected by the type of DMD used. However, it would be fairly safe to assume that the .67 DMD is more expensive to produce and purchase than the .47 DMD as it is a larger chip with more micromirrors. If you're a projector manufacturer buying these in bulk you're probably going to put the larger, more expensive chip in your more expensive projector to offset the cost of the chip. More expensive projectors are expected to have more features.
IMO the most expensive part of using the 0.66" chip is that given equal parameters it requires a larger lens than the 0.47".
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post #60 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 12:00 PM
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IMO the most expensive part of using the 0.66" chip is that given equal parameters it requires a larger lens than the 0.47".
Agreed that this costs more to implement than a small amount of vertical lens shift, which has become increasingly common on <$1,000 1080p projectors. It seems to me that a good clue is that XPR projectors with the 0.66" chips tend to have 1.5x-1.6x zoom lenses and generally sell in the $2,000 range while the latest batch of models tend to have 1.2x-1.3x zoom lenses and generally sell in the $1,500 range.

If the bigger zoom lens isn't a dead giveaway the price should be. When comparing the two new 0.47" XPR chips (DLP470TP and DLP470TE) against the older 0.66" XPR chip (DLP660TE) TI specifically states:

Quote:
The DLP660TE is the most powerful of the three 4K UHD chipsets.

In almost any product sold more powerful means higher performance and higher cost.
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