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post #61 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Agreed that this costs more to implement than a small amount of vertical lens shift, which has become increasingly common on <$1,000 1080p projectors. It seems to me that a good clue is that XPR projectors with the 0.66" chips tend to have 1.5x-1.6x zoom lenses and generally sell in the $2,000 range while the latest batch of models tend to have 1.2x-1.3x zoom lenses and generally sell in the $1,500 range.

If the bigger zoom lens isn't a dead giveaway the price should be. When comparing the two new 0.47" XPR chips (DLP470TP and DLP470TE) against the older 0.66" XPR chip (DLP660TE) TI specifically states:


In almost any product sold more powerful means higher performance and higher cost.
Yup although despite all this the UHD50 may very well be 0.66" like the spec sheet says.

The reduced zoom range allows for a simpler lens with less elements, which reduces cost. The smaller and less deluxe looking chassis is cheaper to manufacture, and we have seen a similar smaller footprint 0.66" projector in the Acer V7850 - in fact this UHD50 almost looks like that exact same configuration as the V7850.

Optoma sold the 0.66" UHD550X for a similar price in Europe throughout 2017, much lower cost than UHD60, additionally.


So until we hear otherwise from Optoma, based on the UHD50 spec sheet I think it makes sense to assume the UHD50 is a cost-reduced 0.66" projector through use of smaller chassis and simpler/cheaper/lower quality lens system. Probably would make sense cost-wise to discontinue the UHD550X and replace it with the UHD50.

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post #62 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 12:36 PM
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The Optoma rep confirmed the uhd50 has the .47" chip and does have 3d:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-dig...-2018-a-3.html
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post #63 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithPete View Post
The Optoma rep confirmed the uhd50 has the .47" chip and does have 3d:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-dig...-2018-a-3.html
Actually, that makes more sense given the complexity of 3D from the bigger chip. For the price, that also makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
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post #64 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 12:43 PM
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Here's the 0.47"/3D confirmation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Sorry folks - to clarify, the UHD50/51A uses the 0.47" DLP chip. We're correcting the product page and data sheet.

And yes it does support 1080p 3D with DLP Link glasses.
We need more confirmations like this instead of basing conclusions on assumptions.
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post #65 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Agreed that this costs more to implement than a small amount of vertical lens shift, which has become increasingly common on <$1,000 1080p projectors. It seems to me that a good clue is that XPR projectors with the 0.66" chips tend to have 1.5x-1.6x zoom lenses and generally sell in the $2,000 range while the latest batch of models tend to have 1.2x-1.3x zoom lenses and generally sell in the $1,500 range.



If the bigger zoom lens isn't a dead giveaway the price should be. When comparing the two new 0.47" XPR chips (DLP470TP and DLP470TE) against the older 0.66" XPR chip (DLP660TE) TI specifically states:





In almost any product sold more powerful means higher performance and higher cost.


Another part at play here is 3D. I think there must be some issue with implementing 3D on the .66 chip, we would have seen one by now. So the trade off is not only cost it seems. I’m speculating that TI developed this .47 dmd knowing it might be a barrier for some consumers. I doubt it’s that much more expensive to make lenses for the .66 XPR dmd’s than the lenses for the .70 1080p dmd projectors. I’m sure TI charges much more for the .66 though. I have a feeling that the .47 costs less itself and reduces sharpness and contrast forcing manufacturers to charge less.
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post #66 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithPete View Post
The Optoma rep confirmed the uhd50 has the .47" chip and does have 3d:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-dig...-2018-a-3.html
funny, as the optoma usa site has this at the specifications on the UHD50: "Single 0.66” TRP S610 4K UHD DMD DLP® Technology by Texas Instruments™"
and NO mention on 3D (no vesa connector listed at the IO connections nor any reference to 3D)..
IMHO we need VESA RF 3D, not DLP Link.. Hopefully Optoma will use a generic transmitter, as the ZF2300 is really an uncomfortable set of glasses..
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post #67 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 01:36 PM
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So are there any short-throw options that use the .66 chip?

L + L = R
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post #68 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Here's the 0.47"/3D confirmation:







We need more confirmations like this instead of basing conclusions on assumptions.


Your right, people shouldn’t make assumptions. Also it shouldn’t be an assumption when it’s coming from a manufacturers product sheet (unless it’s contrast numbers, in which you can be certain it’s false) unlike contrast and even fuaxK/4k resolution, this was very black and white (bad pun intended). This is one of the most egregiously misleading things I’ve ever seen in marketing material, especially when a product is already available for pre-order.
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post #69 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 02:05 PM
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Spec sheet says 0.47.


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post #70 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 02:06 PM
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post #71 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
Spec sheet says 0.47.


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They fixed it, it was 0.66" when I posted earlier. Now that we have it in writing that it is 0.47" with the correction of the spec sheet, we can put the issue to rest.

Last edited by Ruined; 01-09-2018 at 02:13 PM.
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post #72 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperDre View Post
funny, as the optoma usa site has this at the specifications on the UHD50: "Single 0.66” TRP S610 4K UHD DMD DLP® Technology by Texas Instruments™"
and NO mention on 3D (no vesa connector listed at the IO connections nor any reference to 3D)..
IMHO we need VESA RF 3D, not DLP Link.. Hopefully Optoma will use a generic transmitter, as the ZF2300 is really an uncomfortable set of glasses..
They updated/corrected the spec sheet, it is indeed 0.47" DMD. Also they confirmed 3D requires DLP link glasses. The Optoma glasses are actually quite awesome with DLP link, so this is not something to be concerned about (other than you may need to rebuy glasses if you have RF ones).
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post #73 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 03:31 PM
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Will we see a big difference between 0.47 vs .066 in PQ? I got 3 more weeks to return back the Vivitek HK2288.

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post #74 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jsil View Post
Will we see a big difference between 0.47 vs .066 in PQ? I got 3 more weeks to return back the Vivitek HK2288.


Early reports suggest the .47 dlp trades off sharpness and contrast for 3D capability. It also has an issue of a light spilling outside the screen area. It comes down to how noticeable these .47 issues end up being vs how important 3D is?
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post #75 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ZenithPete View Post
The Optoma rep confirmed the uhd50 has the .47" chip and does have 3d:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-dig...-2018-a-3.html

Lol! I hate to say it but... called it.

I think Optima needs to hire some proof readers for their marketing materials. This is becoming a habit.
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post #76 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:03 PM
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I think people are making a little too big a deal about the .47 chip- let's wait to see some more in depth reviews and user experiences before calling it vastly inferior to the larger chip. I was much more relieved personally that we finally have another 4k dlp option with 3d.
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post #77 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
Another part at play here is 3D. I think there must be some issue with implementing 3D on the .66 chip, we would have seen one by now. So the trade off is not only cost it seems. I’m speculating that TI developed this .47 dmd knowing it might be a barrier for some consumers. I doubt it’s that much more expensive to make lenses for the .66 XPR dmd’s than the lenses for the .70 1080p dmd projectors. I’m sure TI charges much more for the .66 though. I have a feeling that the .47 costs less itself and reduces sharpness and contrast forcing manufacturers to charge less.


It’s simply about resolution of the micromirror display. The .66 DMD has a ‘native’ resolution of 2716 x 1528 which is unconventional when not being shifted to 4K. The Full HD 3D image doesn’t ‘fit’ well in that resolution. The .47 DMD, on the other hand, has a ‘native’ resolution of 1920 x1080p. Good ole Full HD. That means that it can do full HD 3D with zero effort.

I’m quite sure the .66 is capable of displaying 3D but some upscaling would have to take place and if done poorly could introduce artifacts. No manufacturer wants to spend the money or devote the resources to this considering 3D is essentially dead at this point. The .47 gets 3D because it’s cheap and easy to implement.

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post #78 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithPete View Post
I think people are making a little too big a deal about the .47 chip- let's wait to see some more in depth reviews and user experiences before calling it vastly inferior to the larger chip. I was much more relieved personally that we finally have another 4k dlp option with 3d.


Yeah speculation is running rampant these days.

Still, I don’t think it’s negligent to expect that the .66 will outperform the 47. The real question is what the margin of difference will be and whether that margin is justified by the significant price discount.
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post #79 of 1503 Old 01-09-2018, 10:20 PM
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Another part at play here is 3D. I think there must be some issue with implementing 3D on the .66 chip, we would have seen one by
The Vivitek DK8500Z and DPI E-Vision 4K UHD Laser both use the 0.66" chip and support FullHD 3D such as via Blu-ray.

So it can be implemented with the 0.66" chip, though there could be some additional cost to doing so that is not incurred on the 0.47" chip.
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post #80 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
It’s simply about resolution of the micromirror display. The .66 DMD has a ‘native’ resolution of 2716 x 1528 which is unconventional when not being shifted to 4K. The Full HD 3D image doesn’t ‘fit’ well in that resolution. The .47 DMD, on the other hand, has a ‘native’ resolution of 1920 x1080p. Good ole Full HD. That means that it can do full HD 3D with zero effort.

I’m quite sure the .66 is capable of displaying 3D but some upscaling would have to take place and if done poorly could introduce artifacts. No manufacturer wants to spend the money or devote the resources to this considering 3D is essentially dead at this point. The .47 gets 3D because it’s cheap and easy to implement.
Uhm, it's actually not quite hard to achieve fullhd 3d with the 2716x1528 DLP, they just don't use the excessive pixels..
And NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 3D isn't dead... 3D is still great! Won't buy a projector which doesn't have 3D, especially due to my large 3D bluray collection..
3D isn't hard to implement.. Sadly they do it on the cheap on the UHD50 (no Vesa, and DLP Link might work, but the image isn't as nice as with RF).
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post #81 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithPete View Post
I think people are making a little too big a deal about the .47 chip- let's wait to see some more in depth reviews and user experiences before calling it vastly inferior to the larger chip. I was much more relieved personally that we finally have another 4k dlp option with 3d.
agree i think the benq hits next week - ought to be a pretty good indicator of just how the image stacks up

so this thing will be able to do 24 fps natively right?

"
Vertical Scan Rate 24Hz to 120Hz
Horizontal Scan Rate 31.000 to 135.000KHz
"
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post #82 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 03:49 AM
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Both of the contenders are running the same chip....my monies on BenQ.


Usually one companies contender does something better than the others which makes them both winners.... and if they look good, at $1499 both will be winners


Just wonder what one will do better than the other....

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post #83 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 06:47 AM
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Optoma UHD50

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDre View Post
Uhm, it's actually not quite hard to achieve fullhd 3d with the 2716x1528 DLP, they just don't use the excessive pixels..

And NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 3D isn't dead... 3D is still great! Won't buy a projector which doesn't have 3D, especially due to my large 3D bluray collection..

3D isn't hard to implement.. Sadly they do it on the cheap on the UHD50 (no Vesa, and DLP Link might work, but the image isn't as nice as with RF).


And then, what, have a postage stamp sized image in the center of your screen? And you didn’t read my post. I didn’t say they couldn’t do it I said they won’t devote the time or resources for a format that is all but dead.

Look, I like 3D! I have 6 pairs of 3D goggles and I try and buy movies on 3D Blu-ray when available. But 3D is dead my friend. It’s not part of the UHD spec and more and more manufacturers are abandoning it in their new product lines (from TVs to Blu-ray players to projectors). The video game industry has abandoned it as well. Streaming services have abandoned it also. Can you still buy 3D? Sure, but let’s not kid ourselves— 3D as it exists in the HD spec has no future. It was a niche and now it’s a legacy niche.
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post #84 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 07:14 AM
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And then, what, have a postage stamp sized image in the center of your screen? And you didn’t read my post. I didn’t say they couldn’t do it I said they won’t devote the time or resources for a format that is all but dead.

Look, I like 3D! I have 6 pairs of 3D goggles and I try and buy movies on 3D Blu-ray when available. But 3D is dead my friend. It’s not part of the UHD spec and more and more manufacturers are abandoning it in their new product lines (from TVs to Blu-ray players to projectors). The video game industry has abandoned it as well. Streaming services have abandoned it also. Can you still buy 3D? Sure, but let’s not kid ourselves— 3D as it exists in the HD spec has no future. It was a niche and now it’s a legacy niche.


I agree, I love 3D as well, it will eventually be another hipster niche such as cassette, VHS, Beta Max, reel to reel, Polaroid etc Good news is if you hang on to your 1080p 3D DLP you’ll be able to find somebody’s 300+ 3D. BluRay collection at a garage sale for $20 in a few years!
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post #85 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 07:40 AM
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And then, what, have a postage stamp sized image in the center of your screen? And you didn’t read my post. I didn’t say they couldn’t do it I said they won’t devote the time or resources for a format that is all but dead.

Look, I like 3D! I have 6 pairs of 3D goggles and I try and buy movies on 3D Blu-ray when available. But 3D is dead my friend. It’s not part of the UHD spec and more and more manufacturers are abandoning it in their new product lines (from TVs to Blu-ray players to projectors). The video game industry has abandoned it as well. Streaming services have abandoned it also. Can you still buy 3D? Sure, but let’s not kid ourselves— 3D as it exists in the HD spec has no future. It was a niche and now it’s a legacy niche.


I agree, I love 3D as well. Sadly 3D will eventually be another hipster niche such as cassette, VHS, Beta Max, reel to reel, Polaroid etc . Good news is if you hang on to your 1080p 3D DLP you’ll be able to find somebody’s 300+ 3D. BluRay collection at a garage sale for $20 in a few years!
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post #86 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 08:13 AM
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I agree about 3D. I am already phasing it out in my own collection especially after I got my UHD60. I finding that I'm enjoying the picture quality of 4K blu-ray's much more than 3D simply because 3D is not as sharp, clear and bright.

Besides, for many movies, 3D is added in post production so it's really not true 3D anyway.
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post #87 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 08:55 AM
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For me 3D is like watching a shoebox diorama version of a movie.

What makes this pj a winner for me is that sweet short throw ratio.


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post #88 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 08:55 AM
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I agree about 3D. I am already phasing it out in my own collection especially after I got my UHD60. I finding that I'm enjoying the picture quality of 4K blu-ray's much more than 3D simply because 3D is not as sharp, clear and bright.



Besides, for many movies, 3D is added in post production so it's really not true 3D anyway.


That’s funny Preditor 3D (1987) is my favorite 3D BluRay. Top Gun being a close Second I think the mastering is more important than the camera. Sounds crazy I know.
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post #89 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
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I agree about 3D. I am already phasing it out in my own collection especially after I got my UHD60. I finding that I'm enjoying the picture quality of 4K blu-ray's much more than 3D simply because 3D is not as sharp, clear and bright.

Besides, for many movies, 3D is added in post production so it's really not true 3D anyway.
4k blu-ray is overrated. most 4k UHD movies are upscale and if have a good upscale Bluray or 4K UHD player you get the same thing with a Bluray.

At least with 3D, you get the feeling of spacial dimension effect.

PS: Have almost 50 4K UHD and none of them make me say wow
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post #90 of 1503 Old 01-10-2018, 10:39 AM
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I feel the same way about 3D.

I have this idea in my head that 4k 12' wide is going to look really pretty.
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