Optoma 4K UHD Projectors at CES 2018 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bigmixx View Post
I currently have an Epson 5030UB and looking to upgrade in the very near future. If this UHD50 can deliver HDR 60hz 444 as stated so I can fully utilize the Xbox one X I'm sold. Especially at that price point.


The product sheet says it can only do 4.4.4 @ 60hz with 8bit. From what I’ve read unless a projector can produce the whole dci color gamut 4.2.0 doesn’t have a visual difference. It can do 30hz with 12bit 4.2.0 I’m not sure the Xbox OneX can do 60hz 4.4.4 12bit considering most high end PC’s still struggle with 4k at high frame rates. Not sure about that though.
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post #62 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 08:42 AM
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Not sure what the thought process is behind fans of one type of projector feeling the need to question other types that don't suit their preferences when those other types are clearly targeted at people with different preferences, viewing environments and budgets. It seems pretty obvious that projector companies make a wide variety of different projector designs to suit different wants and needs. I'm always happy for others who find just the right projector design to suit their wants and needs even if it doesn't suit mine.
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post #63 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmixx View Post
I currently have an Epson 5030UB and looking to upgrade in the very near future. If this UHD50 can deliver HDR 60hz 444 as stated so I can fully utilize the Xbox one X I'm sold. Especially at that price point.


I think you should expect your peak uhd blu Ray picture quality will probably suffer a bit. But might be offset by the increased functionality.


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post #64 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
The product sheet says it can only do 4.4.4 @ 60hz with 8bit. From what I’ve read unless a projector can produce the whole dci color gamut 4.2.0 doesn’t have a visual difference. It can do 30hz with 12bit 4.2.0 I’m not sure the Xbox OneX can do 60hz 4.4.4 12bit considering most high end PC’s still struggle with 4k at high frame rates. Not sure about that though.
Ah..you're right. I looked at the spec sheet again. I think the 1X does 4.4.4 12 bit which is why there's so many issues with current projectors.

I have a low end 4k Samsung 2016 model that can only do 4.2.0 HDR and I barely see a difference between it and my 5030UB. Maybe the increased resolution because the TV is 4k.
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post #65 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 10:04 AM
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Hi All,

I for one am disappointed with the use of a 1080p chip and calling this 4k. If you don't believe me go to TI's website. The 0.47 chip DLP470NE DMD is listed as 1080p (1920x1080). http://www.ti.com/dlp-chip/display-a.../products.html

The Optoma UHD 60 & 65 have the 4k chip but not these new ones.

This site does a side by side comparison with pixel shifters and there is a difference. They also do a side by side with the Sony which cost $5k and the Optoma UHD 65 did very well even better in some areas.

https://www.tvspecialists.com/optoma...or-comparison/

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post #66 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bigmixx View Post
Ah..you're right. I looked at the spec sheet again. I think the 1X does 4.4.4 12 bit which is why there's so many issues with current projectors.



I have a low end 4k Samsung 2016 model that can only do 4.2.0 HDR and I barely see a difference between it and my 5030UB. Maybe the increased resolution because the TV is 4k.


They do list the Xbox One X under their “hdr source comparability” list on the product sheet.
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post #67 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 10:51 AM
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They do list the Xbox One X under their “hdr source comparability” list on the product sheet.
Yeah I see that. Just as long as you don't try 60fps 444
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post #68 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 10:58 AM
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@OldGuy1982 , you need to dig a little deeper into your research. The 0.66" XPR chip isn't native 3840x2160, either. It's native 2716x1528. The 0.66" XPR chip shifts twice to get 8.3 million pixels on the screen while the 0.47" XPR chip shifts 4 times.
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post #69 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 11:49 AM
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Sorry folks - to clarify, the UHD50/51A uses the 0.47" DLP chip. We're correcting the product page and data sheet.

And yes it does support 1080p 3D with DLP Link glasses.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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post #70 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Sorry folks - to clarify, the UHD50/51A uses the 0.47" DLP chip. We're correcting the product page and data sheet.

And yes it does support 1080p 3D with DLP Link glasses.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


That’s a pretty egregious error considering these are already being pre-ordered. From what I’ve heard this is not the first time either. I do appreciate you letting us know Tuan. I doubt it’s your fault.

Thanks
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post #71 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Sorry folks - to clarify, the UHD50/51A uses the 0.47" DLP chip. We're correcting the product page and data sheet.

And yes it does support 1080p 3D with DLP Link glasses.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Well that sucks. Was really excited about this projector too!
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post #72 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
lol, in that case...

I'd say while it's not likely extra pixels were added for digital keystone correction it is possible.



Getting back to the question of which DMD is in the UHD50, if you compare its dimensions to the UHD60/65 it's smaller and lighter. In fact the UHD50's size and features are more in line with the BenQ HT2550, which is known to use the smaller 0.47" DMD. It seems part of TI's strategy with the smaller DMD is to allow for smaller, less featured, lower cost projectors. Based on this I think it's more likely the smaller UHD50 uses the smaller 0.47" DMD.


I just looked up the data sheet also,

https://www.optomausa.com/uploads/da...0-DS-en-US.pdf

It specifies the .66 chip as well. This could still have errors, however much less likely imo. It’s also possible that they have gotten better at reducing its footprint. Acer’s models have shown that the .66 dmd can fit in a pretty small chassis. I think Optoma may have added some dead space to the uhd60/65, in order to center the lens and make it appear like a more serious home theater projector for its higher price point. Just speculating. You where right about the German reviewer on another thread. So far

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I think I’ll tie it up on this one though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Sorry folks - to clarify, the UHD50/51A uses the 0.47" DLP chip. We're correcting the product page and data sheet.

And yes it does support 1080p 3D with DLP Link glasses.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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post #73 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Sorry folks - to clarify, the UHD50/51A uses the 0.47" DLP chip. We're correcting the product page and data sheet.

And yes it does support 1080p 3D with DLP Link glasses.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Tuan, thanks for that. It's nice when someone from the company makes a visit to our forum.

Any word on delivery date? Many are choosing to go with the Benq HT2550, especially if the UHD50 isn't going to be available this month...
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post #74 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Tuan, thanks for that. It's nice when someone from the company makes a visit to our forum.

Any word on delivery date? Many are choosing to go with the Benq HT2550, especially if the UHD50 isn't going to be available this month...
Availability on the UHD50 is next month.
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post #75 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 06:16 PM
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How would picture quality compare to an Epson 5010/9000W?
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post #76 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Three new Optoma 4K UHD projectors are making their debut—well, two distinct models, one of which will be available in two varieties, one with Alexa voice control.

https://www.avsforum.com/optoma-4k-uh...tors-ces-2018/
Exciting news, more 4K PJs and they're getting cheaper! IMO, I'm looking for more affordable and good quality UST PJs.

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post #77 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 06:27 PM
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Red face

Just to clarify uhd50 still has a shorter throw distance and lens shift even though it uses the new TI chip? If so I will be buying this projector over the Benq.
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post #78 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparetire88 View Post
Just to clarify uhd50 still has a shorter throw distance and lens shift even though it uses the new TI chip? If so I will be buying this projector over the Benq.
Yes, we have a 1.21-1.59 throw ratio with a 15% vertical lens shift.
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post #79 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 06:42 PM
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Just to clarify uhd50 still has a shorter throw distance and lens shift even though it uses the new TI chip? If so I will be buying this projector over the Benq.


I hope there is a good and detailed shootout between the two of them. Hopefully soon as I have the BenQ arriving in less than two weeks. For me it’s

Optoma:
+Lens shift
+ shorter throw

BenQ:
+All glass lens
+History of having better color accuracy

I think it’s worth waiting for a verdict before buying either. Unless you jumped the gun before CES like I did. I might return it if I don’t find a good comparison in the next 30 days.
I have zero brand loyalty,
Let the the best projector win!
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post #80 of 183 Old 01-09-2018, 08:15 PM
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Dang it Dave!

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As long as the facts eventually come out we all win.
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post #81 of 183 Old 01-10-2018, 12:02 AM
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Not sure what the thought process is behind fans of one type of projector feeling the need to question other types that don't suit their preferences when those other types are clearly targeted at people with different preferences, viewing environments and budgets. It seems pretty obvious that projector companies make a wide variety of different projector designs to suit different wants and needs. I'm always happy for others who find just the right projector design to suit their wants and needs even if it doesn't suit mine.
Regarding UST, manufacturers currently seem to target only the daylight viewing crowd. LS100 for example. Really bright with bad black level when viewed in a dark room.

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post #82 of 183 Old 01-10-2018, 07:24 AM
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Regarding UST, manufacturers currently seem to target only the daylight viewing crowd. LS100 for example. Really bright with bad black level when viewed in a dark room.
That's pretty logical considering the current and historic market. Traditionally UST projectors have been designed primarily for business and classroom use in ambient light where high lumens are required. Most home projector users with dark, dedicated theaters prefer longer throw projectors. For home use the greatest demand for UST projectors is likely to be for brighter models that can be used in ambient light as a TV replacement. As such home UST models will at least initially mostly be slightly modified bright business/classroom models. Of course there are a few less bright UST models already available but they aren't high volume sales leaders. If UST becomes more in demand and popular I expect there will be a wider variety of models developed.
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This is available next month?!?

Uh HONEY?!? We’re eating hot dogs and ramen for a few weeks okay?


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post #84 of 183 Old 01-10-2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Sorry folks - to clarify, the UHD50/51A uses the 0.47" DLP chip. We're correcting the product page and data sheet.

And yes it does support 1080p 3D with DLP Link glasses.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Tuan, Appreciate the update. I am still looking forward to the reviews for these new units. I can tell you there is a lot of excitement surrounding 4k projectors. But folks are cautious about these early units not being fully ready. There are always concessions when rushing to provide entry level tech. So please pass on one customers thoughts I would rather wait a few months for a fully featured product than buy one missing features I have grown accustomed with.

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post #85 of 183 Old 01-10-2018, 06:33 PM
 
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Optoma 4K UHD Projectors at CES 2018

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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
This is available next month?!?

Uh HONEY?!? We’re eating hot dogs and ramen for a few weeks okay?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that's what I hear too from my reps, first week of Feb., so we're all just taking preorders so far. I think it's going to be a hot seller.
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post #86 of 183 Old 01-10-2018, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
That's pretty logical considering the current and historic market. Traditionally UST projectors have been designed primarily for business and classroom use in ambient light where high lumens are required. Most home projector users with dark, dedicated theaters prefer longer throw projectors. For home use the greatest demand for UST projectors is likely to be for brighter models that can be used in ambient light as a TV replacement. As such home UST models will at least initially mostly be slightly modified bright business/classroom models. Of course there are a few less bright UST models already available but they aren't high volume sales leaders. If UST becomes more in demand and popular I expect there will be a wider variety of models developed.
I think black floor is much less important than brightness with high contrast. A projector that is bright enough to be used in a lit room can be paired with a dark screen to lower the black floor. It should look even better in a dark room. What is important is that it have the contrast to show shadow details. I'd be interested in a 10,000 lumen projector paired with a 0.2 gain neutral gray matte screen and 2000:1 contrast as it should look good in both lit and dark rooms.

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post #87 of 183 Old 01-10-2018, 08:15 PM
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... I'd be interested in a 10,000 lumen projector paired with a 0.2 gain neutral gray matte screen and 2000:1 contrast as it should look good in both lit and dark rooms.
That is such an amazing fantasy that I just have to mention @bud16415 so he'll get a notice and see this. Bud speaks often about how well his 0.5 gain neutral matte grey screen works with a bright projector and will really appreciate this.
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post #88 of 183 Old 01-10-2018, 09:22 PM
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That is such an amazing fantasy that I just have to mention @bud16415 so he'll get a notice and see this. Bud speaks often about how well his 0.5 gain neutral matte grey screen works with a bright projector and will really appreciate this.
I would say @dreamer isn’t dreaming.

This was my thought and what I put into practice back in 2006 with my first projector of course I couldn’t find a 10’000 lumen projector so I had to settle for as bright as I could with the best CR I could and then go as dark and neutral in a screen as I could. And then do the rest with room treatments and finally allowing limited ambient light exactly where I needed it and away from where I didn’t. People used to come to my first theater and a common comment I would hear would be, “I thought a room had to be pitch black for a projector, this place is brighter than our livingroom.”

Back then I started a thread in the DIY screen forum showing screen shots of a new light rejecting screen that I could watch movies on outside in the sunlight I even showed screen shots at how black my blacks were. And I did it with a 2000 lumen projector. I turned it into a game to guess how it worked with the intent of getting people interested in darker screens. What my photos didn’t show is my screen was only about 36” .1 gain neutral gray (flat black) and I had mega foot lamberts. See I didn’t show anything in the photos to scale the screen to. It didn’t go over well after a day of guessing people were getting angry and when I told them it was 36” I got ran out of DIY on a rail. The science was all there I just needed a 20,000 lumen projector to get a screen large enough to make them notice.

There is no wishing though Stewart Filmscreen last year showed such a setup at the electronic show and there was a thread here about the screen. I asked Don in that thread about the projector and I forget the details but it was something like 12,000 lumens. He mentioned Disney does this all the time with .4 gray screens Stewart makes for them. they are not 180 degree dispersion though they match a dark gray with some angular gain for a double whammy and then don’t need quite as bright a projector.

The thing I always suggest and what I do when going the very dark route with a screen when you expect ambient use, is to run in two modes where you still get your 15 fl in the dark and about double that after the screen attenuation or 30 fl with the ambient. I know it is all about nits now. But back in the day with my light cannon projectors and .5 or lower screens still doing 25-30 fl it wasn’t HDR it just seemed like it with perceived blacks.

I never had much luck suggesting a setup like this as the mindset is you can project white but you cant reflect white off of gray.
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post #89 of 183 Old 01-11-2018, 08:17 AM
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... There is no wishing though Stewart Filmscreen last year showed such a setup at the electronic show and there was a thread here about the screen. I asked Don in that thread about the projector and I forget the details but it was something like 12,000 lumens. He mentioned Disney does this all the time with .4 gray screens Stewart makes for them. they are not 180 degree dispersion though they match a dark gray with some angular gain for a double whammy and then don’t need quite as bright a projector. ,,,
I knew about the Stewart 0.4 gain custom screens for Disney but must have missed or don't recall the thread about any lower gain than that. Looking at Stewart's currently listed screen material offerings the lowest is 0.7 gain GrayMatte 70. If they offer anything lower it must be special order only.

Looking only at matte grey screens and excluding those with directional gain, Da-Lite offers 0.6 gain HD Progressive 0.6 while Draper has 0.6 gain Grey XH600V. After a quick search of the top name screen companies those appear to be the two lowest gain matte grey screens currently available unless someone offers a lower gain on special order.

Of course for DIYers you can mix any <1.0 gain matte grey paint you choose but the lower you go the more projector lumens you need to properly illuminate it. The reward is a screen with all of the positive features and none of the negatives of ALR screens.

Any announcements of brighter projector models will be welcomed by advocates of darker matte grey screens.
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post #90 of 183 Old 01-11-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I knew about the Stewart 0.4 gain custom screens for Disney but must have missed or don't recall the thread about any lower gain than that. Looking at Stewart's currently listed screen material offerings the lowest is 0.7 gain GrayMatte 70. If they offer anything lower it must be special order only.

Looking only at matte grey screens and excluding those with directional gain, Da-Lite offers 0.6 gain HD Progressive 0.6 while Draper has 0.6 gain Grey XH600V. After a quick search of the top name screen companies those appear to be the two lowest gain matte grey screens currently available unless someone offers a lower gain on special order.

Of course for DIYers you can mix any <1.0 gain matte grey paint you choose but the lower you go the more projector lumens you need to properly illuminate it. The reward is a screen with all of the positive features and none of the negatives of ALR screens.

Any announcements of brighter projector models will be welcomed by advocates of darker matte grey screens.

I guess what I was thinking of was the Phantom HALR material that does have some gain they say but in the demo they are using 16,000 lumens for a 178” screen and 6,000 lumens for a 110” screen for whatever reason.

The two best reads on this material are these.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-la...ia-2016-a.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-scr...ead-cedia.html

There are DIY solutions that are simple low gain gray’s like I prefer but there are also DIY solutions that act exactly the way the Phantom HALR work. They are a very dark gray with gain built back in. They are the more complicated and harder to make solutions and involve spraying paints and such.

Given lumens enough there is no reason to need them.

One point I failed to mention about dreamers dream screen. With a .1 gray screen masking is a thing of the past. Virtually instant masking of every and any AR. Why would you put black masking on a black screen. In my case even with .5 gain masking is hardly needed for my tastes and I do without even though I have 4way manual masking that I do adjust for special showings. And again I do know that with any gray the image and the overspill will remain the same but for me the dark screen seems to improve self-masking despite what it should be doing. I attribute it somewhat to perception.

Bud
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