Optoma 4K UHD Projectors at CES 2018 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 183 Old 01-06-2018, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Optoma 4K UHD Projectors at CES 2018

Three new Optoma 4K UHD projectors are making their debut—well, two distinct models, one of which will be available in two varieties, one with Alexa voice control.

https://www.avsforum.com/optoma-4k-uh...tors-ces-2018/

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post #2 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 03:35 AM
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What justifies the $3500 difference between the UST and "regular" model?

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post #3 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 05:40 AM
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Perhaps one of the more "duh" questions you'll read in weeks, but with these super short throw PJ's we "obviously" don't need 5,000+ lumens to get proper HDR???

Honestly, rather than waiting for super-high lumen models (which have to use considerably more electricity) I have been wondering why their hasn't been a bigger focus (lol) on units like these that can be placed within a foot or two of the screen.

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post #4 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What justifies the $3500 difference between the UST and "regular" model?
Lasers!!!

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post #5 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What justifies the $3500 difference between the UST and "regular" model?
I'm guessing the laser light engine and better (manufacturer stated) specs.

What is surprising to me are if the prices for the UHD51A and UHD50 are correct. A 4K projector with some respectable specs that includes a built in 4K media player and depending on the model Alexa for the home??? I'd want to know more about the media player, but $1500 to $1700 for a good projector with a 4K player seems too good to be true. Any details how this media player works? Does it have built in memory or does it require an external hard drive or network connection?

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post #6 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 05:53 AM
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I think some marketing "genius" has decided that there is a group of people with above-average income that need USTs just to show off. This of course requires a lit room (hence high lumens output) and not just a nerdy black batcave with a calibrated picture solely for the pleasure of movie watching

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post #7 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 05:58 AM
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I can understand the advantage of the laser...but at a $3500 premium, that's a DOZEN lamps at $300 apiece.

Short of the longevity, is there any other major benefit (of laser)? Just 6 lamps (7, including the original) would be likely be exceeding 25,000 hours of life? Will anybody actually own this unit that long to make it worthwhile?

I guess the laser will also stay more consistent and not dim like a lamp, either.

Just thinking out loud.

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post #8 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
I can understand the advantage of the laser...but at a $3500 premium, that's a DOZEN lamps at $300 apiece.

Short of the longevity, is there any other major benefit (of laser)? Just 6 lamps (7, including the original) would be likely be exceeding 25,000 hours of life? Will anybody actually own this unit that long to make it worthwhile?

I guess the laser will also stay more consistent and not dim like a lamp, either.

Just thinking out loud.

James
You get less heat, which means less noise. Also the lasers don't dim like bulbs. Is it worth the $3500 premium? That's a big maybe. Depends on how valuable that $3500 is to you.
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post #9 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 06:52 AM
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But will these be Fauxk or True 4k?? Most advertise as a 4K, but are Faux 4k instead of True 4K.. We will see.

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post #10 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Perhaps one of the more "duh" questions you'll read in weeks, but with these super short throw PJ's we "obviously" don't need 5,000+ lumens to get proper HDR???

Honestly, rather than waiting for super-high lumen models (which have to use considerably more electricity) I have been wondering why their hasn't been a bigger focus (lol) on units like these that can be placed within a foot or two of the screen.

Thanks
James
It almost sounds as if you think an ultra short throw projector will throw a brighter image than a longer throw projector producing the same number of lumens. Of course this is not true. For example, a 5,000 lumen UST projector designed to throw a 100" image from a minimum of 1' will produce no brighter an image than a 5,000 lumen longer throw projector designed to throw a 100" image from a minimum of 10'. You may already know this but it was not clear from the way your post above is worded and some people do have a misconception about image brightness from UST vs. longer throw projectors.

The reason why people want really bright UST projectors is because they want to view them in ambient light like a TV. Bright UST projectors are seen by many as the best option for a TV replacement. Dimmer projectors only work well in a dark home theater setting.
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post #11 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:08 AM
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You get less heat, which means less noise.
You mean like the Epson LS100? This thing is like a rocket taking off (when not in quiet mode)

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post #12 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
The reason why people want really bright UST projectors is because they want to view them in ambient light like a TV.
Not me. Having a UST means less installation effort (I'm renting). It's also potentially quieter because it's farther from the viewing position.
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post #13 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:19 AM
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But will these be Fauxk or True 4k?? Most advertise as a 4K, but are Faux 4k instead of True 4K.. We will see.
Faux 4K would be good enough for me – 127" screen (diagonal), sitting 11.5ft (3.5m) from the screen. When did people stop choosing gear based on actual requirements instead of marketing messages? (Answer: "A long time ago")

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post #14 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
It almost sounds as if you think an ultra short throw projector will throw a brighter image than a longer throw projector producing the same number of lumens. Of course this is not true. For example, a 5,000 lumen UST projector designed to throw a 100" image from a minimum of 1' will produce no brighter an image than a 5,000 lumen longer throw projector designed to throw a 100" image from a minimum of 10'. You may already know this but it was not clear from the way your post above is worded and some people do have a misconception about image brightness from UST vs. longer throw projectors.

The reason why people want really bright UST projectors is because they want to view them in ambient light like a TV. Bright UST projectors are seen by many as the best option for a TV replacement. Dimmer projectors only work well in a dark home theater setting.
No, believe it or not, my idiotic Monday morning brain thought a PJ producing 5000 lumens one foot away from the wall would indeed produce a brighter image than a 5,000 lumen PJ positioned 15 feet from the same screen. But it sounds like those 5,000 lumens are calculated for what either unit actually puts on the screen at the required distance for an "x" sized image.
So it THAT understanding is correct, than yes, neither will be brighter than the other, but being closer is a distinct advantage for most.

I'll admit I'm still trying to understand how the unit 15 feet away doesn't require more light to produce an identically-sized image at the same brightness level, but, oh well- I must be missing something obvious.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
I can understand the advantage of the laser...but at a $3500 premium, that's a DOZEN lamps at $300 apiece.

Short of the longevity, is there any other major benefit (of laser)? Just 6 lamps (7, including the original) would be likely be exceeding 25,000 hours of life? Will anybody actually own this unit that long to make it worthwhile?

I guess the laser will also stay more consistent and not dim like a lamp, either.

Just thinking out loud.

James
Ease of setup. With an extremely short throw projector, there is no need to have a dedicated home theater. It closer to installing a TV then a projector. Short HDMI runs, etc.
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post #16 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Nitemage View Post
Ease of setup. With an extremely short throw projector, there is no need to have a dedicated home theater. It closer to installing a TV then a projector. Short HDMI runs, etc.
I'm speaking of the benefit of the laser vs cost- not the short-throw.

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post #17 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:27 AM
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The premium price is due to a few factors, not just the laser light engine. The specs change from 500,000:1 to 2,000,000:1 (again these are manufacturer specs so take that with a grain of salt). A good short throw projector also normally costs a bit more as they have a different build and form factor. A lot of people are willing to pay more for a short throw projector since they can replace a TV easier than a stand projector. Short throw projector sitting on a TV stand 10 inches away from the screen is much easier than installing a power source and running (and trying to hide) hdmi cables to a location on their ceiling and making sure a ceiling fan or hanging light isn't in the way. The build quality may be in a completely different level as well, we won't know more until we see the units.

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post #18 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:29 AM
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Can someone help with UST for a second.

for me the benefit might be placing the UST behind the screen, as I have a false wall with ~ 3 feet of room between the two walls. However, it is also an AT screen, so that would affect light output.

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post #19 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Three new Optoma 4K UHD projectors are making their debut—well, two distinct models, one of which will be available in two varieties, one with Alexa voice control.

https://www.avsforum.com/optoma-4k-uh...tors-ces-2018/
The Optoma UST laser is going to be a hot seller, bet it will be like a UHZ65 with UST.
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post #20 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
No, believe it or not, my idiotic Monday morning brain thought a PJ producing 5000 lumens one foot away from the wall would indeed produce a brighter image than a 5,000 lumen PJ positioned 15 feet from the same screen. But it sounds like those 5,000 lumens are calculated for what either unit actually puts on the screen at the required distance for an "x" sized image.
So it THAT understanding is correct, than yes, neither will be brighter than the other, but being closer is a distinct advantage for most.

I'll admit I'm still trying to understand how the unit 15 feet away doesn't require more light to produce an identically-sized image at the same brightness level, but, oh well- I must be missing something obvious.


Thanks
James
What you may be confusing this with is the light loss produced by zoom lenses when all of the lens glass area is not being used. When placed at minimum throw distance from a specific size screen the full lens area is used to pass lumens so the image will be at its brightest. When placed at maximum throw distance from the same size screen not all of the zoom lens is used so the amount of lumens that passes through the lens is reduced. Typical lumen loss from minimum to maximum zoom can run from 10%-40% depending on variables.

Since UST projectors do not have zoom lenses they are always passing the maximum amount of lumens through the fixed lens just as longer throw projectors do when they are at minimum throw distance and using all of the zoom lens glass.
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post #21 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
What you may be confusing this with is the light loss produced by zoom lenses when all of the lens glass area is not being used. When placed at minimum throw distance from a specific size screen the full lens area is used to pass lumens so the image will be at its brightest. When placed at maximum throw distance from the same size screen not all of the zoom lens is used so the amount of lumens that passes through the lens is reduced. Typical lumen loss from minimum to maximum zoom can run from 10%-40% depending on variables.

Since UST projectors do not have zoom lenses they are always passing the maximum amount of lumens through the fixed lens just as longer throw projectors do when they are at minimum throw distance and using all of the zoom lens glass.
Oh, ok, thanks. Wow, didn't know there was no zoom. So then in my case with a 150" screen I'm prolly about a foot away from the screen, then?

Still not bad for an image that large!

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post #22 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
What you may be confusing this with is the light loss produced by zoom lenses when all of the lens glass area is not being used. When placed at minimum throw distance from a specific size screen the full lens area is used to pass lumens so the image will be at its brightest. When placed at maximum throw distance from the same size screen not all of the zoom lens is used so the amount of lumens that passes through the lens is reduced. Typical lumen loss from minimum to maximum zoom can run from 10%-40% depending on variables.

Since UST projectors do not have zoom lenses they are always passing the maximum amount of lumens through the fixed lens just as longer throw projectors do when they are at minimum throw distance and using all of the zoom lens glass.
When you're moving a UST back to adjust "zoom" you're also loosing brightness.

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post #23 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
When you're moving a UST back to adjust "zoom" you're also loosing brightness.
The same number of lumens is coming out of the lens no matter how close or far a UST projector without a zoom lens is from the screen. Obviously when you spread the same number of lumens over a larger area the illuminance per square foot (foot-lamberts) is reduced. But the total amount of light reflected by the entire image is unchanged.
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I'm speaking of the benefit of the laser vs cost- not the short-throw.

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I got that, but part of the increase in cost is the added design and hardware costs of producing extremely short throw projector.

Then they are targeting a completely different group of customers. People that will be willing to pay more not to have to deal with bulbs or all of the requirements of setting up a home theater.
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
The same number of lumens is coming out of the lens no matter how close or far a UST projector without a zoom lens is from the screen. Obviously when you spread the same number of lumens over a larger area the illuminance per square foot (foot-lamberts) is reduced. But the total amount of light reflected by the entire image is unchanged.
Yep. So you end up with roughly the same brightness numbers.

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post #26 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 08:25 AM
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Then they are targeting a completely different group of customers. People that will be willing to pay more not to have to deal with bulbs or all of the requirements of setting up a home theater.
Not me. Hope I'm not the only one in that "other" group.

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If these MSRP's are correct- and I'm assuming they are of course- it seems there will be ample "pressure" for Sony to reduce the cost of their native 4K entry model- that of course assumes that Epson finally comes to market with a native 4K unit. Wondering how much longer they (Epson) will go without a native machine. ???

I understand the Sony is viewed as a "premium" model/brand but at 3+X the cost and the natural progression of the tech, I would think It would be completely feasible to see a new version of the 285 available for $4k (or less) in the next year.

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If these MSRP's are correct- and I'm assuming they are of course- it seems there will be ample "pressure" for Sony to reduce the cost of their native 4K entry model- that of course assumes that Epson finally comes to market with a native 4K unit. Wondering how much longer they (Epson) will go without a native machine. ???

I understand the Sony is viewed as a "premium" model/brand but at 3+X the cost and the natural progression of the tech, I would think It would be completely feasible to see a new version of the 285 available for $4k (or less) in the next year.

James
Aren't these new Otoma's using the XPR TI chips or are they actually native 4K now?

If they are still pixel shifting then you have your answer and I doubt you will see Sony and others try to price native 4K in line with pixel shifters.
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post #29 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 10:45 AM
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Did anyone check the throw ratio on the UHD50?!?!?!?!?!?!?

*jumping up and down, jumping up and down*

WELL?!?!?!?!?! DID YOU!!!!?!?!?!?!?!

https://www.optomausa.com/uploads/da...0-DS-en-US.pdf

Throw Ratio 1.21 - 1.59 (with tolerance +/- 5%)

HAPPY DANCE! HAPPY DANCE!!! HAPPPPPPPPPPPPPY DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANCE!!!!

(It's about DAMNED time!)
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post #30 of 183 Old 01-08-2018, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Aren't these new Otoma's using the XPR TI chips or are they actually native 4K now?

If they are still pixel shifting then you have your answer and I doubt you will see Sony and others try to price native 4K in line with pixel shifters.

?

Yes, they are pixel-shifters. But no, the Sony would be no where near "inline" with these at $4,000 vs $1,500. The point would be (as far as Optoma is concerned, anyway) to create a larger price-chasm that would lure some/many away from a "true" 4K PJ to pocketing $2500 and at least giving faux-4 a shot. Sony would have some measure of pressure to lessen the nearly 3X delta.

I for instance, could very well be one of those folks- and at $1500- I'm guessing there could easily be thousands more thinking similarly.

James

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Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."
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4k/uhd , ces 2018 , Optoma

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