Optoma UHD51A: 4K HDR 3D DLP Projector... w/ Alexa - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 1829 Old 05-20-2018, 06:38 PM
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Unfortunately no.

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Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post
Side question

Do any of the Aspect Ratio settings perform a vertical-only stretch so 2.40:1 movies fill the height of the 16:9 panel ?

Display: Optoma UHD51A Projector > Elite Screens R135WH1 ezFrame | 7.2.4 Audio: Onkyo TX-RZ920 9.2ch Network A/V Receiver, M-5010 2ch Amplifier; Definitive Technology ProCenter 2000, ProMonitor 1000(x10), SuperCube I & 4000 | Sources: PC, DirecTV, Apple 4K, Fire Stick 4K, Oppo UDP-203, Chromecast & Roku Ultras, Xbox One X, PlayStation 4 Pro & Nintendo Switch | Remote: Harmony Elite | HDMI: 40' Monoprice DynamicView+4x1 Switch
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post #662 of 1829 Old 05-20-2018, 06:45 PM
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I want to get this out before I forget again: feeding this projector 12-bit 4:2:0 produces the best color reproduction. YouTube 4K HDR videos for example look way more accurate from the Chromecast Ultra than the Roku Ultra. The Roku Ultra can do 12-bit color but only at 4:2:2 while the Chromecast Ultra does it at 4:2:0. The Optoma projectors only do 10-bit and 12-bit 2160p 60Hz at 4:2:0; only 8-bit at 4:2:2. Anyone who doesn't think it matters in this situation, just look for yourself.
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Display: Optoma UHD51A Projector > Elite Screens R135WH1 ezFrame | 7.2.4 Audio: Onkyo TX-RZ920 9.2ch Network A/V Receiver, M-5010 2ch Amplifier; Definitive Technology ProCenter 2000, ProMonitor 1000(x10), SuperCube I & 4000 | Sources: PC, DirecTV, Apple 4K, Fire Stick 4K, Oppo UDP-203, Chromecast & Roku Ultras, Xbox One X, PlayStation 4 Pro & Nintendo Switch | Remote: Harmony Elite | HDMI: 40' Monoprice DynamicView+4x1 Switch
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post #663 of 1829 Old 05-20-2018, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post
I want to get this out before I forget again: feeding this projector 12-bit 4:2:0 produces the best color reproduction. YouTube 4K HDR videos for example look way more accurate from the Chromecast Ultra than the Roku Ultra. The Roku Ultra can do 12-bit color but only at 4:2:2 while the Chromecast Ultra does it at 4:2:0. The Optoma projectors only do 10-bit and 12-bit 2160p 60Hz at 4:2:0; only 8-bit at 4:2:2. Anyone who doesn't think it matters in this situation, just look for yourself.
Uh-oh. Is there any single 4K HDR streaming device that delivers Netflix, Amazon Prime Video and Youtube in 12-bit 2160p 60Hz at 4:2:0?
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post #664 of 1829 Old 05-20-2018, 10:05 PM
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Don't know- but I'm guessing the Nvidia Shield may come the closest.
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post #665 of 1829 Old 05-20-2018, 11:30 PM
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How does this compare with the epson 3700 pic quality wise? Also has anyone seen how the 51A handles 1080P content? is it upscale?
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post #666 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 03:10 AM
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Hello,
for the owners .. please can you confirm that PureMotion does not work with 4K HDR signals? ..from a review on a French site it seems that PureMotion works only with 4K without HDR.

Thanks

VPR: Optoma UHD51, schermo: Elite Screens Saker Tab-Tension 135". TV: Sony KD 65" XD8599. CAM: TivùSat GoldHD 4k. Sinto AV: Pioneer SC-LX59, SORGENTI: Pioneer BDP450, Xbox One X, MySkyHD. DIFFUSORI: B&W CDM7se (front), B&W HTM7 (centrale), Canton GLE 416.2 (surr.), Canton GLE 416 (surr. back), Canton GLE 416 (Atmos), SVS PB1000 (sub). Remote: Logitech Harmony Elite
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post #667 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
Hello,
for the owners .. please can you confirm that PureMotion does not work with 4K HDR signals? ..from a review on a French site it seems that PureMotion works only with 4K without HDR.

Thanks
PURE MOTION is OK only with YUV not with RGB.
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post #668 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 03:18 AM
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Thanks

VPR: Optoma UHD51, schermo: Elite Screens Saker Tab-Tension 135". TV: Sony KD 65" XD8599. CAM: TivùSat GoldHD 4k. Sinto AV: Pioneer SC-LX59, SORGENTI: Pioneer BDP450, Xbox One X, MySkyHD. DIFFUSORI: B&W CDM7se (front), B&W HTM7 (centrale), Canton GLE 416.2 (surr.), Canton GLE 416 (surr. back), Canton GLE 416 (Atmos), SVS PB1000 (sub). Remote: Logitech Harmony Elite
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post #669 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 06:18 AM
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Did we confirm keystone is in uhd51a? Amazons page says it doesn’t have it.

Most places seem to have this in stock. Waiting for two things : 1) i can’t get into my theater right now due to construction in my basement and 2) waiting for early adopters to give the universal thumbs up.


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post #670 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holzwerk View Post
PURE MOTION is OK only with YUV not with RGB.
For the less technically adept among us, does this mean pure motion does or does not work in 4K HDR?
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post #671 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
Did we confirm keystone is in uhd51a? Amazons page says it doesn’t have it.

Most places seem to have this in stock. Waiting for two things : 1) i can’t get into my theater right now due to construction in my basement and 2) waiting for early adopters to give the universal thumbs up.


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I've read somewhere a few pages back and Tuan said that keystone is not available in this model.
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post #672 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken McPherson View Post
Uh-oh. Is there any single 4K HDR streaming device that delivers Netflix, Amazon Prime Video and Youtube in 12-bit 2160p 60Hz at 4:2:0?

No and it's not great. Most devices go 4:2:2 with 12-bit. For 12-bit 4:2:0: Chromecast Ultra by default; Oppo UDP-203 with settings; Apple 4K TV with settings and PlayStation 4 Pro with settings. I've set other devices to 4:2:0 but just get 10-bit: Roku Ultra and Xbox One X. That's just the Color Space "piping" from device to device though, I cannot tell precisely which have any true high bit color depth at any given time with the different apps and whatnot. The Optoma UHD60 is the same way. Of course at 24Hz & 30Hz, the skies the limit with all the extra bandwidth. End of the day, everything looks great. It's just seeing that extra notch up is good to experience. With the "usual" YouTube HDR videos (we here all know the ones), they both look great on the Roku Ultra and Chromecast Ultra (using the exact same projector settings). Looking closer though, you notice they aren't exactly the same, look longer and you start to like the Chromecast Ultra's version of the colors better and I'm going through an Oppo too).
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Display: Optoma UHD51A Projector > Elite Screens R135WH1 ezFrame | 7.2.4 Audio: Onkyo TX-RZ920 9.2ch Network A/V Receiver, M-5010 2ch Amplifier; Definitive Technology ProCenter 2000, ProMonitor 1000(x10), SuperCube I & 4000 | Sources: PC, DirecTV, Apple 4K, Fire Stick 4K, Oppo UDP-203, Chromecast & Roku Ultras, Xbox One X, PlayStation 4 Pro & Nintendo Switch | Remote: Harmony Elite | HDMI: 40' Monoprice DynamicView+4x1 Switch
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post #673 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
Did we confirm keystone is in uhd51a? Amazons page says it doesn’t have it.

Most places seem to have this in stock. Waiting for two things : 1) i can’t get into my theater right now due to construction in my basement and 2) waiting for early adopters to give the universal thumbs up.


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No keystone on UHD51A, just UHD50.
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post #674 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
No keystone on UHD51A, just UHD50.
What about pure motion with 4k HDR?
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post #675 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 09:34 AM
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Pros
• 4K Image via XPR looks amazing and sharp for the price. Faux 4K (=haters gonna hate), faux HDR “compatible” I’m ok with but the 4K on the screen is real enough. I’m personally just amazed at the engineering and ingenuity involved in getting 4K from current DLP tech down to a reasonable price at this point in time. Side note: ever notice when a new projector is listed for sale, someone (who knows about all of this already to be sure) asks the question “is it real 4K or Faux-4K” just to stir things up?
• 3D looks and performs great and has a Brightness adjustment (I didn’t need it)
o Although PureMotion shows to be Low, it’s been said that because it is grayed out, it’s not being used. However, I don’t know. When I set PureMotion to Off everywhere else, it still shows up as Low in 3D mode: i.e. not just copying what it was last on.
• Bright, good colorful image (with some adjustments) with reduced RBE
o No "purple haze" artifacts or any other types of artifacts added through video processing when color settings are set high like the UHD60 (personal pet peeves/rant)
o All the basic and advanced (Color Matching & RGB Gain/ Bias) picture settings allow for a perfect picture eventually (to be fair, I haven’t really had to do much with the UHD51A except turn Sharpness down, Color down a touch for some bright, intense shades of Reds and turn TrueMotion Off (personally not a fan, it seems to work OK).
• HDR Compatibility – at least the HDR10 metadata is being used for something. It’s OK visually – more so colorful more so than having super bright whites and super dark blacks (so contrast suffers). The HDR would be great and awesome if I lived in a bubble where the UHD51A was my only display device and I didn’t use 4K HDR LCD TV’s, Dolby Vision and the like. The different HDR picture modes seem to all have meaningful purposes and visual differences. I just use Standard myself.
• PureMotion – it works. It hitches every now and then on complex motion scenes but overall it seems solid. Good to have it as an option for those who want to use it.
• Low noise levels, even in Bright mode. XPR buzz hasn’t been an issue. The only time the XPR has been heard is switching from 3D (1080p) back to 4K.
• Vertical lens shift and 1.3x zoom make installation easier
• Alexa – seems like a good option as everything seems headed to the world of “Internet-of-things”. With my Logitech remote, I personally don’t have a use case for it.
• Remote is smaller and nice to me (especially since it doesn’t appear I’ll need it much at all unlike the UHD60 where I was making picture adjustments almost all the time and switching between Cinema and HDR – the UHD51A does that automatically). The back lighted keys are not blindingly bright. Some may not like the button batteries though.
• Two HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 inputs instead of the usual one like so many others.
• The built-in Media Player seems cool. I will not be able to access the USB ports easily enough to ever use it and also I have too many other devices already hooked up to projector that can do similar things.
• EZCast Wireless Media Streaming – good to have as an option than not to have at all I guess. I may switch over to using this instead of Alexa when I take the projector down to adjust the mount on it. I haven't used EZCast yet as it requires the USB Wifi Adaptor to be in a specific USB port not used by Alexa.
• Build-in sound – it sounds OK enough and will get you by, great for portability. I’m not going to ever use it but it’s there as an option.
• Box (at least in the USA) contains a USB Wifi Adaptor, Lens Cap and short HDMI cable.


Cons
• Slow HDMI syncing STILL – time between a signal to black screen to signal is several long seconds
o Switching between 4K and 3D takes a good long while.
o Switching between sources and toggling between SDR & HDR both take a while.
• Light Border around the active image area from unused pixels. The DMD is comprised of tiny mirrors 2048x1200, only 1920x1080 are used, shifted 4 times to get 3860x2160. That leaves 64 pixels on the left and right of the active image area and 60 pixels on the top and bottom unused and shown around the active image as a light border more or less visible depending on what is being shown on the screen at any given time. The light border is proportional with the active area: as the active image is enlarged, so is the light border’s thickness.
• Black Levels (thus Contrast) – current, home DLP tech’s weakness. With all the praise I mentioned about DLP 4K/price point and the Brightness and Color in the Pros section above, Black Levels still remain not the best. They aren’t bad or horrible but I do feel engineering a low cost way to keeping light from unused mirrors off the screen will be a true revolutionary break-through for DLP in general if that’s even a possible. Here’s to wishful thinking coming true one day (fingers crossed).
• No direct support for 12-bit 4:2:2 at 2160p 60Hz without adding an additional conversion step (the similar JVC LX-UH1 shows it’s possible to do; another of my personal pet peeves/rant).
• No true Game Mode to get lag near or under 30ms.
• UltraDetail processing (now built-in with the Sharpness setting) cannot be totally turned off. Sharpness at 1 appears to be equivalent to UltraDetail 1 or even 2 on the UHD60. Unfortunately, this personal pet peeve/rant for me may be in the minority and never addressed because it appears only in high contrast, near single pixel repeating geometry that puts UltraDetail into over drive (mainly Video Games in certain areas). It forms faint vertical and horizontal moiré bands from the processed sharpness that looks bad particularly in motion that results in stair stepping and shimmering. This could happen in any source material but movies and TV haven’t shown it much if at all so far. It depends on if a high detailed fence, vent, grate, roof, etc. is in a shot I would imagine. I’ll personally just have to set Sharpness to 1 and bite my tongue whenever it appears in 4K games I’m playing – not a deal breaker for me personally just annoying knowing it could not be there with the proper setting available.
• Alexa and EZCast can’t share the same USB Wi-Fi adaptor in 1 USB input.
• No Keystone Correction. This isn’t my personal con but others have said they need it for their space and it would obviously make setup even easier/more flexible. I don’t know how much this would have added to the cost of the projector but it seems a worthy inclusion.
• No Horizontal lens shift (again, the similar JVC LX-UH1 shows it’s possible to do – at what cost?)
• Menus not adjustable, i.e. being able to reposition them, set the time they stay on the screen. This isn’t my personal con with the UHD51A because I haven’t had the reason to stay in menus long like I had to with the UHD60 but someone mentioned it and it wouldn’t have hurt to keep the menu options available.
• Alxea onboarding a little long and involved (not Optoma’s fault) but it was OK if you just follow all of the steps. 1st world problems.

Display: Optoma UHD51A Projector > Elite Screens R135WH1 ezFrame | 7.2.4 Audio: Onkyo TX-RZ920 9.2ch Network A/V Receiver, M-5010 2ch Amplifier; Definitive Technology ProCenter 2000, ProMonitor 1000(x10), SuperCube I & 4000 | Sources: PC, DirecTV, Apple 4K, Fire Stick 4K, Oppo UDP-203, Chromecast & Roku Ultras, Xbox One X, PlayStation 4 Pro & Nintendo Switch | Remote: Harmony Elite | HDMI: 40' Monoprice DynamicView+4x1 Switch

Last edited by Wesley Hester; 05-21-2018 at 03:29 PM.
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post #676 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 11:01 AM
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Not really sure how you put out a pj in 2018 without keystone.


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post #677 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken McPherson View Post
For the less technically adept among us, does this mean pure motion does or does not work in 4K HDR?

Again in addition to the French Optoma UHD51 test. The Pure Motion of the Optoma UHD51 also works on 4K. However, the player must be set to YUV output. FI does not work in RGB mode
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post #678 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holzwerk View Post
Again in addition to the French Optoma UHD51 test. The Pure Motion of the Optoma UHD51 also works on 4K. However, the player must be set to YUV output. FI does not work in RGB mode
I get that Puremotion works in 4k on UHD51. You keep saying that 4K Puremotion only works with YUV, not RGB, but I have no idea what that means in terms of Puremotion and 4K HDR.

Bottom line: I'm trying to find out if it is possible to get Puremotion *AND* 4K HDR on the UHD51a using a Roku Ultra or ChromeCast Ultra.

Anyone?

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post #679 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post
Side question for Tuan:
Is the Enter button on the remote RE-SYNC when not in a menu?
If so, does it also analyze the signal and optimize some settings?
I know that when I press it outside of menus the screen goes black and the signal is lost and later found again.
Also, settings like Contrast and Gamma appear changed/updated based on the input: 10bit 4:2:0 BT.709 SDR as just one example from their original settings.
Thank you for any help or information.
You have to use the source button to select the source to re-sync. If you have a source displayed, you can double tap the enter button to re-sync.

Last edited by Tuan; 05-21-2018 at 12:22 PM.
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post #680 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 12:28 PM
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Hm. I just realized I can’t watch widescreen disc movies without keystone.

So is this something that will be added later or is this just not happening at all?

If it’s the latter I think I have to choose keystone (UHD50) over 3D (uhd51a)


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post #681 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holzwerk View Post
Again in addition to the French Optoma UHD51 test. The Pure Motion of the Optoma UHD51 also works on 4K. However, the player must be set to YUV output. FI does not work in RGB mode
So the source is the device that outputs YUV or RGB. What do sources usually output? For Instance, Blue Ray player, UHD player, Directv,4K receiver, Dish receiver, Comcast receiver, and on and on and on..

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post #682 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
Hm. I just realized I can’t watch widescreen disc movies without keystone.

So is this something that will be added later or is this just not happening at all?

If it’s the latter I think I have to choose keystone (UHD50) over 3D (uhd51a)


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Why do you need keystone to watch widescreen movies? I might be missing something but I don't understand the connection?
Also, as previously stated, it does seem odd that there is no keystone correction but employing keystone correction is the antithesis of a sharp 4k image, so again I don't get why it's so important?
I'm not an expert but everything I've read says avoid keystone correction if at all possible.
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post #683 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holzwerk View Post
PURE MOTION is OK only with YUV not with RGB.

Nope sorry I'm using YUV signals with my Xbox ONE S, and pure motion isn't active with 4K HDR sources.


PS : The 3D part is now available on the review :




http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog...lavis-de-greg/
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post #684 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 02:44 PM
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Nope sorry I'm using YUV signals with my Xbox ONE S, and pure motion isn't active with 4K HDR sources.
Thanks!
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post #685 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 03:44 PM
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Screen height / ceiling height. My theater is a great example of what not to do.

I won’t bore you with the whole story but I can’t mount my PJ high enough and to watch a disc I have to point the pj up to get the top of the image at the top of the screen.


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post #686 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post
Nope sorry I'm using YUV signals with my Xbox ONE S, and pure motion isn't active with 4K HDR sources.


PS : The 3D part is now available on the review :




http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog...lavis-de-greg/


There’s one problem though: the Xbox One S/X converts YUV to RGB and THEN converts it back to YUV if you have YUV selected in the video setting. No matter what the signal is being converted. Could that maybe have something to do with it not working?

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post #687 of 1829 Old 05-21-2018, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
Screen height / ceiling height. My theater is a great example of what not to do.

I won’t bore you with the whole story but I can’t mount my PJ high enough and to watch a disc I have to point the pj up to get the top of the image at the top of the screen.


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The UHD51A has 10% vertical lens shift according to the manual. Theoretically, if you could mount it high enough that the full 10% vertical shift put the top of the 16:9 image at the top of your screen, then for scope movies you could reduce the lens shift to its minimum and have your 2.40:1 movies start only 3% down from the top without tilting the projector. Then a small tilt would introduce such minor keystone you'd barely notice.


The other option would be to make your PC capable of playing your 4k discs. Depending on what software player you use for your 4k-disc capable PC, you might be able to crop the movie on the PC. Yet another option might be to rip your 4k discs to a media server and crop the image while ripping it to H264 or whatever file type, so your movie has been shifted to using rows 1-1620 instead of 271-1890. I think that would require a less powerful PC than actually playing the movie directly from disc, but that is based on my reading and not experience.

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Last edited by dreamer; 05-22-2018 at 12:10 AM. Reason: Removed the "Signal Position" note because VGA input won't accept 4k.
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post #688 of 1829 Old 05-22-2018, 01:46 AM
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Well got my order in, the Euro UHD51 should arrive sometime next week. Got a new active high speed 10 meter HDMI cable ordered as well. Starting to check out UHD blu-ray players, and eyeing the Sony UBP-X700.

Got some ambient light in the room during the day (got blackout curtains, but some light leaks through the sides), so will be interesting to see how it'll perform against my W1070 with it's original lamp at 4500 hours, that's run on eco mode since I bought it.

Got a PS4 Pro to feed it until I decide on a UHD player, and the PC to test out some other 4k videos.

Edit: damn, I just realized I won't easily be able to hook everything up unless I buy a HDMI switcher or something, the Denon AVR-1910 won't be able to pass through 4k/HDR. How is everyone hooking they're projector up, with all surrounding equipment (without replacing them all), say PS4 Pro, Digital Cable box, UHD player (these usually come with two HDMI outputs, so least of the problem), via a HDMI 1.4 receiver?

Last edited by Paganmoon; 05-22-2018 at 02:55 AM.
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post #689 of 1829 Old 05-22-2018, 03:27 AM
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Hi,


I cant decide should i get uhd60 or uhd51. If i dont need 3d and the 300 price difference is not an issue. Only thing that matters to me is picture quality and gaming(uhd60 has a lower better lag?). i own a hd33 europe version hd300x , im pretty happy with it, it just time to move on. i have given up 3d because picture is not bright enough in my room conditions. I have a 120 inch screen, and the wall is about 4,5 m away, so throw wise i shoud get uhd60 ? Leaving all the extras aside, which one has a better picture side by side.

I wanna pull the trigger , but dont want to regret afterwards .

Any ideas?
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post #690 of 1829 Old 05-22-2018, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paganmoon View Post
Got some ambient light in the room during the day (got blackout curtains, but some light leaks through the sides), so will be interesting to see how it'll perform against my W1070 with it's original lamp at 4500 hours, that's run on eco mode since I bought it.

Hi,
I also had the Benq W1070+ .. could you make a comparison about the contrast and the black?

thank you
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VPR: Optoma UHD51, schermo: Elite Screens Saker Tab-Tension 135". TV: Sony KD 65" XD8599. CAM: TivùSat GoldHD 4k. Sinto AV: Pioneer SC-LX59, SORGENTI: Pioneer BDP450, Xbox One X, MySkyHD. DIFFUSORI: B&W CDM7se (front), B&W HTM7 (centrale), Canton GLE 416.2 (surr.), Canton GLE 416 (surr. back), Canton GLE 416 (Atmos), SVS PB1000 (sub). Remote: Logitech Harmony Elite
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