Optoma UHD51A: 4K HDR 3D DLP Projector... w/ Alexa - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Optoma UHD51A : 4K HDR 3D DLP Projector... Alexa Ready

I am of the opinion that this projector needs its own thread. In the beginning, the Optoma UHD51A was being touted as an added $200 premium version of the UHD50 with the addition of Alexa assistant/voice control added. Given that the HD50 turned out to be missing some key and expected features, such as true frame packed 3D decoding, it was then revealed that the UHD51A had that feature and more. The UHD51A also adds other features like frame interpolation and a built-in Android based media player. Given that the brains that run the two projectors are different, it is also possible that they could even have a slight difference in other features, and possibly even less of a delayed response time.

Oh yeah, then there's Alexa. This is the whole reason that they offered a different model in the first place (I'm sure that this is what the "A" at the end must stand for), but I suspect most of those on this forum don't really care a lot about the feature... even though now it seems like a cool little bonus feature to a pretty promising $1700 projector. It should be noted that there is no mic built in, and you need an Echo, Dot, or similar device.







I am looking forward to the reviews.The UHD51A is expected to go on sale at the end of Q1 2018.
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post #2 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 12:25 PM
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Thanks for starting the thread. Should be noted that Alexa is an interface to your Alexa based unit such as an Echo. You still need that external device to make it work. It is just a command interface to many of the functions of projector as I understand it. Also, the Android streamer will need an internet interface as well. I bring that up as there has been confusion about that.

Edit: I should qualify that--we don't frankly know what Alexa can or can't do. There have been websites saying it works without an Echo based on questions to Optoma, but I've heard from an Optoma rep, that it needs a device.
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Hey Gordo, if / when the manual for this gets posted, can you add it? Want to check for 120hz 1080p support.

All these 0.47 projectors should have it, in theory, since they all use the same TI chips but who knows about the scalers or firmware. I believe the UHD50 doesn't list 120hz input at 1080p if I recall.

120hz input should be a given with HDMI 2.0 and 3D.

I'm also curious about the input lag vs frame interpolation chip, since the Optoma UHD60 and UHD65 differed in "brains" as you call them but the UHD65 with interpolation had much worse input lag, not better. (80 vs 50ms)

I like the black look, and the interpolation is apparently good on Optomas (very good), but I wish they would put the lens in the middle instead of off to one side. It doesn't make any difference except when mounting it, but it still bothers me.
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post #4 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 12:34 PM
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@3DBob makes a good point all it has is an Alexa Skill built in,

This skill acts as an API on the device which will carry out certain tasks.

It still requires an Alexa device in the room to actually enable that Skill to do anything. In theory, Alexa only needs to be on the same Wireless network but when giving those commands you'll most likely be in the Cinema room when giving them and for it to hear you it would almost certainly be in the same room.

If you already have a Logitech type remote and either Alexa, Google Assistant or Siri (so any smartphone will do) it will do exactly the same sort of stuff.

I already have a fully automated Cinema room and wouldn't want another "smart" device especially a PJ. Besides the turn on and off I never edit my PJ settings.

Once it's set then I'm all good.
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post #5 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 12:40 PM
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This will give you more insight. Does say you need an external device for Alexa, and also states you can activate it using the Alexa phone app.

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post #6 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Thanks for starting the thread. Should be noted that Alexa is an interface to your Alexa based unit such as an Echo. You still need that external device to make it work. It is just a command interface to many of the functions of projector as I understand it. Also, the Android streamer will need an internet interface as well. I bring that up as there has been confusion about that.

Edit: I should qualify that--we don't frankly know what Alexa can or can't do. There have been websites saying it works without an Echo based on questions to Optoma, but I've heard from an Optoma rep, that it needs a device.
I put that bit in for now, that it needs an external device. I'll try to correct some things as more info becomes available. I'm still unclear about the phone app, and if you need all three in unison or what.

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post #7 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Gordo, if / when the manual for this gets posted, can you add it? Want to check for 120hz 1080p support.

All these 0.47 projectors should have it, in theory, since they all use the same TI chips but who knows about the scalers or firmware. I believe the UHD50 doesn't list 120hz input at 1080p if I recall.

120hz input should be a given with HDMI 2.0 and 3D.

I'm also curious about the input lag vs frame interpolation chip, since the Optoma UHD60 and UHD65 differed in "brains" as you call them but the UHD65 with interpolation had much worse input lag, not better. (80 vs 50ms)

I like the black look, and the interpolation is apparently good on Optomas (very good), but I wish they would put the lens in the middle instead of off to one side. It doesn't make any difference except when mounting it, but it still bothers me.
You bring up some really good points. I had forgotten that I had read that the HD65 had more lag than it's lesser counterpart. Hopefully these "brains" are faster than that. My hope is that the Android OS lead them to put in a much faster processing chipset.

I will try to add the manual or a link to it as soon as it becomes available.
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Uhd40(euro version) aka Uhd50 manual here

https://www.optoma.co.uk/ContentStor...b85cdc4ff7.pdf
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post #9 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GordoSan View Post
I put that bit in for now, that it needs an external device. I'll try to correct some things as more info becomes available. I'm still unclear about the phone app, and if you need all three in unison or what.
There is a standard process for enabling a second party device on Alexa. Optoma will release an Alexa "skill". You will connect the skill to your UHD51a via either an Optoma app or on a website where you register yourself and your specific UHD51a. Then you enable the Optoma skill in the Alexa phone app. Once enabled, your UHD51a will respond to commands made on your Echo device. None of the apps need to be open in order for this to work.
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post #10 of 1819 Old 02-08-2018, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken McPherson View Post
There is a standard process for enabling a second party device on Alexa. Optoma will release an Alexa "skill". You will connect the skill to your UHD51a via either an Optoma app or on a website where you register yourself and your specific UHD51a. Then you enable the Optoma skill in the Alexa phone app. Once enabled, your UHD51a will respond to commands made on your Echo device. None of the apps need to be open in order for this to work.
Interesting. I will leave that part of the original post alone then, as it still takes an Echo or Dot. I am not sure if I would be adding this feature right away, but possibly some time in the future.
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Interesting. I will leave that part of the original post alone then, as it still takes an Echo or Dot. I am not sure if I would be adding this feature right away, but possibly some time in the future.
It is possible that you will also be able to voice control the UHD50a without an echo device if they release an Optoma App (rather than have you register on a website). We'll just have to wait and see which variant they choose.
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post #12 of 1819 Old 02-13-2018, 01:33 PM
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It is possible that you will also be able to voice control the UHD50a without an echo device if they release an Optoma App (rather than have you register on a website). We'll just have to wait and see which variant they choose.
Vizio just added an Echo skill for some of its displays. This video will give you a good idea of what will be involved in activating the UHD51A skill when it comes out.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/sS8NL4rLJy8
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post #13 of 1819 Old 02-13-2018, 02:23 PM
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I wish more specs were published, or better yet, reviewed. Curious if this is worth the wait. Sure would be nice if someone would sell a DLP with lens memory for a reasonable price.
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post #14 of 1819 Old 02-13-2018, 02:29 PM
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seems like if you care about 3D at all, this is your PJ.
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post #15 of 1819 Old 02-14-2018, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
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seems like if you care about 3D at all, this is your PJ.
Tell me about it. I was really looking forward to a shootout between the UHD51A and the BenQ HT2550, as I was still not sure which was for me. It sounds like they are having some serious problems with quality control on the BenQ, and 3D isn't working properly on possibly every single unit they have sold so far, with a massive recall to update the firmware. If Optoma gets this thing right, they could have a bigger hit on their hands than they know.

Not just that, but this problem that BenQ is having is really starting to make me wonder when companies like BenQ and Optoma will change their tune on allowing users to update their own darn firmware... Especially at the cost of whatever BenQ is going to be paying in returns on inventory. What better platform for Optoma to start allowing user-controlled firmware updates with than with than Android?! Hey Alexa, update the firmware on my projector!
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Tell me about it. I was really looking forward to a shootout between the UHD51A and the BenQ HT2550, as I was still not sure which was for me. It sounds like they are having some serious problems with quality control on the BenQ, and 3D isn't working properly on possibly every single unit they have sold so far, with a massive recall to update the firmware. If Optoma gets this thing right, they could have a bigger hit on their hands than they know.

Not just that, but this problem that BenQ is having is really starting to make me wonder when companies like BenQ and Optoma will change their tune on allowing users to update their own darn firmware... Especially at the cost of whatever BenQ is going to be paying in returns on inventory. What better platform for Optoma to start allowing user-controlled firmware updates with than with than Android?! Hey Alexa, update the firmware on my projector!
I don't envy BenQ being first out of the gate - there were bound to be problems they couldn't foresee.

as far as firmware updates go, I wonder if the cost of doing the firmware updates themselves is just a better solve than dealing with customers blabbing on social media about bricked projectors because they did it wrong.
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I don't envy BenQ being first out of the gate - there were bound to be problems they couldn't foresee.

as far as firmware updates go, I wonder if the cost of doing the firmware updates themselves is just a better solve than dealing with customers blabbing on social media about bricked projectors because they did it wrong.
I'm not going to give BenQ the pass for being first. They did not test the production models to see if they could make it through an entire 3D movie first? Maybe they should have just waited to release the thing when it worked.

As for firmware, my Onkyo receiver fetches it from the internet, as does my Xbox One and Ps4. This is really old fashioned thinking.
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Are the projector calculator stats at ProjectorCentral.com accurate? (they have the uhd50 listed) It is showing a shorter throw than all other $1500-$3000 PJs that I'd consider to be peers.
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Are the projector calculator stats at ProjectorCentral.com accurate? (they have the uhd50 listed) It is showing a shorter throw than all other $1500-$3000 PJs that I'd consider to be peers.
yes, the UHD50 does have the shortest throw of the current affordable "4K" projectors. Not quite at W1070 levels, but close. I'd say projectorcentrals is accurate as it gives the same throw info as Optomas own calc for the uhd50/40.
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yes, the UHD50 does have the shortest throw of the current affordable "4K" projectors. Not quite at W1070 levels, but close. I'd say projectorcentrals is accurate as it gives the same throw info as Optomas own calc for the uhd50/40.
1.21-1.59

BenQ W1070 is 1.15-1.50
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I'm transferring this over from the UHD50 thread because it is specific to the UHD51a. 3DBob was kind enough to help me think through the possibility of using my HTPC to output Blu-ray 1080P frame-packed 3D to the UHD51a.

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Full HD from a computer demands a quad-buffered video card, so yes, you have to have a card that can handle frame-packed 3D. It has to also be able to send the 3D video at 120hz so each eye gets 60hz. I'm over simplifying, though. You also have to have a video player on your computer that handles 3D as well like PowerDVD.
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Here you go, Ken: https://www.cdw.com/product/NVIDIA-Q...B-RAM/3664066? Edit: This card only has mini-display ports and DVI support, which is probably not going to work for you with no hdmi. You would have to deal with that as well.

I have not used this card personally, though. Considering the expense for such a card and the fact you can get a 4K bluray player for $90--https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-up875-4k-ultra-hd-3d-blu-ray-player-black/5979504.p?skuId=5979504 that does 4K HDR and Atmos, it seems like overkill to mess with a computer and also having to buy 3D player software and then getting it to work, which can be a mystical experience, trust me . I can't vouch for the LG, but it gets good ratings and it sure is cheap.

The UHD51A offers the advantage of full frame-packed HD that a bluray player can produce. The UHD50 does not and requires a PC to drive it. That said, you can only pass SBS or Top/Bottom to the UHD50, so your PC player software would have to read the bluray and down-scale it to SBS or T/B. You would be better off going with the Benq HT2550, which supports full 3D HD and is the same price as the UHD50. That said, HT2550 users have found a problem with using 3D as it can't sync properly with DLPlink glasses. Benq has said they are going to fix that in firmware release soon, though. Lots to consider here. I personally am going to wait for the UHD51A.
After reading his comments I initially decided that I was going to bite the bullet and just get an external 3D Blu-ray player. But then I realized I was already going to get a new 4k HDR graphics card, I already have the latest PowerDVD, and I would need to get new 4k HDR cables either way, so it would actually be more expensive to go the external 3D Blu-ray player route.

Unfortunately, I discovered the card 3DBob referenced above does not support HDR. After a great deal of research, I found the PNY NVIDIA Quadro P1000 (VCQP1000-PB) https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-645-_-Product a quad-buffered 4k card with 4 simultaneously displayed mini DisplayPorts 1.4 (HDR) that costs about the same as the non-quad-buffered EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, which was the other 4K HDR card I was considering. Then I found the Club3D CAC-1180 Active mini Display Port 1.4 to HDMI 2.0a HDR Adapter (Support Displays up to 4k/UHD/ 4096x2160, 60Hz HDR) https://www.amazon.com/CAC-1180-Disp...DMI+4K+UHD+hdr. This dongle meets all the necessary specs to enable the Quadro P1000 to deliver 4K HDR to the UHD51a.

I went several rounds with PNY Quadro tech support to ensure that the Quadro P1000 would indeed deliver Blu-ray frame-packed 3D to the UHD51a.

Yesterday, they confirmed it would (should) work.
Quote:
Hi Ken,

Regarding your questions about our (VCQP1000-PB) NVIDIA Quadro P1000, it supports quad-buffered stereo, it supports Blu-ray, and, after reviewing the information linked below, I am confident that it supports frame-packed 3D.
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answe...card-hdmi-port
Next step: Wait for few reviews/early adopter comments for the UHD50/UHD51a to determine if I want the UHD51a. If so, I'm going to give the Quadro P1000/Club3D Display Port 1.4 to HDMI 2.0a HDR Adapter a try.

Please feel free to let me know if you see any flaws in my plan!

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@Ken McPherson : I like it when people have the "guts" to try something like this. You might take a look at the HTPC forum thread and see what that forum is up to for 3D and 4K as well. Also, make sure your motherboard/powersupply supports the card. If it's a PCI Express graphics card, it will have to get power off the motherboard--47 watts. If it's a plug into the power supply type card, then the you need to check the rails for the right voltage support. Just to be safe with these cards, it's always good to have a 500watt or greater powersupply and liguid/fan heatsink on your cpu. And an 8-core I7 CPU helps as well. You are going to need a lot of CPU for 4K (as the CPU runs the 3D player software that in turn invokes the graphics card), I think, even though the graphics card does most of the work.
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You don't need a video card at all if you use an intel NUC lol. Honestly, I only recommend a larger htpc with a video card if you have needs beyond watching movies- like gaming- or need more room for expansion. The older intel chipsets work very for frame packed 3d. Unfortunately the newest ones which have a sort of fake hdmi 2.0 port for 4k and hdr compatibility do not allow for frame packed 3d and they have no intention of fixing this. So a larger htpc with standalone video card is probably the way to go if you are looking for one machine for ultra hd/hdr and 3d.
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
@Ken McPherson : I like it when people have the "guts" to try something like this. You might take a look at the HTPC forum thread and see what that forum is up to for 3D and 4K as well. Also, make sure your motherboard/powersupply supports the card. If it's a PCI Express graphics card, it will have to get power off the motherboard--47 watts. If it's a plug into the power supply type card, then the you need to check the rails for the right voltage support. Just to be safe with these cards, it's always good to have a 500watt or greater powersupply and liguid/fan heatsink on your cpu. And an 8-core I7 CPU helps as well. You are going to need a lot of CPU for 4K (as the CPU runs the 3D player software that in turn invokes the graphics card), I think, even though the graphics card does most of the work.
I have an 8 core AMD FX 8350 (equivalent to Core i7 4770K), 16gb, 750 watts Power and Arctic Freezer 13 CPU Cooler. PNY says that should meet the Quadro P1000 requirements. If I need to upgrade the PC, I will. (I have built all my own PCs/HTPCs since '87).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken McPherson View Post
After reading his comments I initially decided that I was going to bite the bullet and just get an external 3D Blu-ray player. But then I realized I was already going to get a new 4k HDR graphics card, I already have the latest PowerDVD, and I would need to get new 4k HDR cables either way, so it would actually be more expensive to go the external 3D Blu-ray player route.

Unfortunately, I discovered the card 3DBob referenced above does not support HDR. After a great deal of research, I found the PNY NVIDIA Quadro P1000 (VCQP1000-PB) https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-645-_-Product a quad-buffered 4k card with 4 simultaneously displayed mini DisplayPorts 1.4 (HDR) that costs about the same as the non-quad-buffered EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, which was the other 4K HDR card I was considering. Then I found the Club3D CAC-1180 Active mini Display Port 1.4 to HDMI 2.0a HDR Adapter (Support Displays up to 4k/UHD/ 4096x2160, 60Hz HDR) https://www.amazon.com/CAC-1180-Disp...DMI+4K+UHD+hdr. This dongle meets all the necessary specs to enable the Quadro P1000 to deliver 4K HDR to the UHD51a.

I went several rounds with PNY Quadro tech support to ensure that the Quadro P1000 would indeed deliver Blu-ray frame-packed 3D to the UHD51a.

Yesterday, they confirmed it would (should) work.

Next step: Wait for few reviews/early adopter comments for the UHD50/UHD51a to determine if I want the UHD51a. If so, I'm going to give the Quadro P1000/Club3D Display Port 1.4 to HDMI 2.0a HDR Adapter a try.

Please feel free to let me know if you see any flaws in my plan!
Why would you get a Quadro with quad-buffer stereo support if you were getting a UHD51A? The UHD51A supports frame-packed 3D so your existing graphics card should be fine - what do you currently have btw? Otherwise you're paying a lot more for a professional-class card that doesn't have any benefit over the consumer version.

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@Ken McPherson : I like it when people have the "guts" to try something like this. You might take a look at the HTPC forum thread and see what that forum is up to for 3D and 4K as well. Also, make sure your motherboard/powersupply supports the card. If it's a PCI Express graphics card, it will have to get power off the motherboard--47 watts. If it's a plug into the power supply type card, then the you need to check the rails for the right voltage support. Just to be safe with these cards, it's always good to have a 500watt or greater powersupply and liguid/fan heatsink on your cpu. And an 8-core I7 CPU helps as well. You are going to need a lot of CPU for 4K (as the CPU runs the 3D player software that in turn invokes the graphics card), I think, even though the graphics card does most of the work.
You don't need a lot of CPU for 4K and haven't needed it in a couple years. Anything in the Nvidia GeForce 750 series and newer have an HEVC/H.265 hardware decoder. The display output will have to switch to 1080p for 3D anyways. An 8-core i7 is severe overkill for an HTPC, not to mention consumes excess power for no reason - unless you are running a Plex server and transcoding.

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post #26 of 1819 Old 02-16-2018, 10:30 AM
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@Tuan : Makes some good points. Perhaps what I'm suggesting is overkill. A lot depends on whether you are simply watching video vs. interacting with it within games, etc. I was basing a lot on this due to my son's experience, but he's a gamer as well. @Ken McPherson : It probably makes sense to wait and see how your current PC operates vs. adding a lot of parts you don't need.


That said, now dang it @Tuan : give us some good dates for when the UHD50 and 51A are going to be available!
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post #27 of 1819 Old 02-16-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
@Tuan : Makes some good points. Perhaps what I'm suggesting is overkill. A lot depends on whether you are simply watching video vs. interacting with it within games, etc. I was basing a lot on this due to my son's experience, but he's a gamer as well. @Ken McPherson : It probably makes sense to wait and see how your current PC operates vs. adding a lot of parts you don't need.


That said, now dang it @Tuan : give us some good dates for when the UHD50 and 51A are going to be available!
You can never have too much power for gaming, but you don't need much to watch 4K video nowadays. I personally use an Nvidia Shield for the majority of my video playback.

Amazon has UHD50's on the way and UHD51A is still on track for March. I do have some good news - our first UHD50 review units are going out early next week to Projector Central to CNET so keep an eye out for those reviews .
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Tuan, can you confirm whether this projector accepts 120hz at 1080p?

Or just point me to anywhere that has a manual with the details of resolutions refresh rate.
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post #29 of 1819 Old 02-16-2018, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Why would you get a Quadro with quad-buffer stereo support if you were getting a UHD51A? The UHD51A supports frame-packed 3D so your existing graphics card should be fine - what do you currently have btw? Otherwise you're paying a lot more for a professional-class card that doesn't have any benefit over the consumer version.
OK, now I'm a bit confused. My only concern is getting full 1080p Blu-ray frame-packed 3D (each eye) to the UHD51a like a dedicated 3d frame-packed Blu-ray player would. I'm upgrading my video card (GTX 770) regardless because I want 4K HDR.

Are you saying that I don't need a quad-buffered graphics card to do that?

I have no interest in gaming. I should have made that clear in my first post! And yes, I am running a Plex Server.

Thanks!

Last edited by Ken McPherson; 02-16-2018 at 11:23 AM.
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post #30 of 1819 Old 02-16-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken McPherson View Post
OK, now I'm a bit confused. My only concern is getting full 1080p Blu-ray frame-packed 3D (each eye) to the UHD51a like a dedicated 3d frame-packed Blu-ray player would. I'm upgrading my video card (GTX 770) regardless because I want 4K HDR.

Are you saying that I don't need a quad-buffered graphics card to do that?

I have no interest in gaming. I should have made that clear in my first post! And yes, I am running a Plex Server.

Thanks!
You do not need a quad-buffered graphics card - that's only with the UHD50. The UHD51A MEMC supports frame-packed Blu-ray so you're fine with any consumer card - like a budget GeForce GTX 1050 or even the new AMD Ryzen 2400G APU.
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