Official BenQ HT2550 4K HDR Projector Review and Owners Thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 651 Old 01-17-2019, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Official BenQ HT2550 4K HDR Projector Review and Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
709 appears to be even more washed out in my case.

Here are the two images with 709 and 2020.



I can't find contrast controls on apple tv. But reducing contrast on the projector doesn't help much as well. But I can see more details as the picture is getting darker.



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Changing the color space should only be for matching to your source if for some reason the projector doesn’t auto detect. For what it’s worth I haven’t had any issue with the auto detect on any of the BenQs not correctly identifying the color space being input. My advice: leave it in auto.

Again, reducing the white point (contrast control) is the only way to correct this. Bottom line: projectors have limited dynamic range compared with TVs. Your HT2550 measures around 265 nits in HDR. The average 4K LCD these days is 1000 nits or above. That means the HT2550 is not going to have the same ability to display detail in specular highlights and must grade this content accordingly.

This all comes down to the failure of HDR10 as a standard. Without going down a deep and very boring rabbit hole, HDR10 establishes no standards for tone or gamut mapping. This means that if your display has less than 1000 nits (OLED, projectors, older or cheaper LCDs) you’re screwed. The manufacturer of your display is left to sort it out and since all content is mastered differently this becomes a guessing game to select the best compromise. The BenQ mostly gets this right but, same as you, I’ve experienced some content which suffers clipped whites. This is why everyone is SO excited that the upcoming 4K JVCs have various controls for HDR content— because it’s the first attempt at dynamic scaling within the display. Similarly, this is why the proposed HDR10+ is such a big deal as it’s an attempt to add metadata (ala Dolby Vision) to the playback chain.

Back to the HT2550 I have good results reducing the contrast in my source and leaving the projector in it’s default setting (contrast and brightness). I run my X800 with contrast reduced by 3 or 4 and this brings out detail in the whites without unduly harming the display’s contrast/brightness. This has struck a good compromise for a wide variety of content.

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post #512 of 651 Old 01-17-2019, 10:17 AM
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I just want to say that I really appreciate you guys. My home theater has dramatically improved directly because of the advice you guys have here in the last handful of posts. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Changing the color space should only be for matching to your source if for some reason the projector doesn’t auto detect.
Yep, I tested the whole Color Gamut setting VS HDR/SDR thing and from what I can tell, changing the Color Gamut to something other than Auto (or what it's supposed to be) simply clips the colors off. It doesn't fix my HDR color issue at all. However, changed to SDR mode for all signals (and leaving Color Gamut to Auto), forces my Apple TV and UHD BD player to tone map and the result is so far the best I've seen my HDR content look.
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I have good results reducing the contrast in my source and leaving the projector in its default setting (contrast and brightness).
Ok, I've not tried this to solve my 3D contrast problem! I'm going to give this a shot soon and report back.
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post #513 of 651 Old 01-17-2019, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Changing the color space should only be for matching to your source if for some reason the projector doesn’t auto detect. For what it’s worth I haven’t had any issue with the auto detect on any of the BenQs not correctly identifying the color space being input. My advice: leave it in auto.

Again, reducing the white point (contrast control) is the only way to correct this. Bottom line: projectors have limited dynamic range compared with TVs. Your HT2550 measures around 265 nits in HDR. The average 4K LCD these days is 1000 nits or above. That means the HT2550 is not going to have the same ability to display detail in specular highlights and must grade this content accordingly.

This all comes down to the failure of HDR10 as a standard. Without going down a deep and very boring rabbit hole, HDR10 establishes no standards for tone or gamut mapping. This means that if your display has less than 1000 nits (OLED, projectors, older or cheaper LCDs) you’re screwed. The manufacturer of your display is left to sort it out and since all content is mastered differently this becomes a guessing game to select the best compromise. The BenQ mostly gets this right but, same as you, I’ve experienced some content which suffers clipped whites. This is why everyone is SO excited that the upcoming 4K JVCs have various controls for HDR content— because it’s the first attempt at dynamic scaling within the display. Similarly, this is why the proposed HDR10+ is such a big deal as it’s an attempt to add metadata (ala Dolby Vision) to the playback chain.

Back to the HT2550 I have good results reducing the contrast in my source and leaving the projector in it’s default setting (contrast and brightness). I run my X800 with contrast reduced by 3 or 4 and this brings out detail in the whites without unduly harming the display’s contrast/brightness. This has struck a good compromise for a wide variety of content.


I hear what you are saying on leaving it on Auto for the color space detection but I have yet to find HDR source material that was in anything other than BT2020. In my experience Auto=BT2020 but I could also just have all BT2020 content? To my eye, however, BT2020 content still looks better in BT709 Gamut...

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post #514 of 651 Old 01-17-2019, 10:33 AM
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To my eye, however, BT2020 content still looks better in BT709 Gamut...
It probably is better! But, test out SDR mode and let your player tone map. I think you'll be surprised that THAT is even better (at least in my environment - dark).
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post #515 of 651 Old 01-17-2019, 10:33 AM
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It probably is better! But, test out SDR mode and let your player tone map. I think you'll be surprised that THAT is even better (at least in my environment - dark).


I will try that out tonight!


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post #516 of 651 Old 01-18-2019, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
It probably is better! But, test out SDR mode and let your player tone map. I think you'll be surprised that THAT is even better (at least in my environment - dark).


So yesterday I found a webpage that contains all the apple tv screen savers. ( found it in the first post of the apps tv.) I just played some of them on my phone and then played it on the projector.
My apple tv is set to force everything to 4k/60.
I played using the below setup.
Phone -> (airplay) apple tv -> projector.



Now compare this to what I see in HDR. The screen in simply washed out and three details on the clouds/bright areas are totally missing.


At this point I am giving up on hdr
And have decided to stick with 4k sdr on this projector.

I am curious if anyone is getting noticeably better picture in HDR vs sdr on this projector. I am wowed by the sdr performance. But I am confused why hdr is looking worse.


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post #517 of 651 Old 01-18-2019, 05:23 PM
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I am confused why hdr is looking worse.
I think the projector was just designed to take in the signal and do it's best with 96% Rec 709 (SDR) parts. It's too inexpensive to have the right parts to accurately display 100% or even 96% of BT 2020 (HDR). Heck, it can't even do 100% of Rec 709 (not that it's easy). If we want 100% (or close) BT 2020, we're going to have to shell out the big bucks and it's that simple. However, with a few concessions, like SDR tone mapping, we can save a ton of money for those of us that need that (like me).
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post #518 of 651 Old 01-18-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
I think the projector was just designed to take in the signal and do it's best with 96% Rec 709 (SDR) parts. It's too inexpensive to have the right parts to accurately display 100% or even 96% of BT 2020 (HDR). Heck, it can't even do 100% of Rec 709 (not that it's easy). If we want 100% (or close) BT 2020, we're going to have to shell out the big bucks and it's that simple. However, with a few concessions, like SDR tone mapping, we can save a ton of money for those of us that need that (like me).
What does SDR tone mapping mean in this context? I am assuming it means I have to map HDR to SDR somehow?
In that case how do we tone mapping with this projector?

I simply want to stream HDR from Netflix/iTunes. I am trying to do this using Apple TV 4k. I also have access to an Xbox one X which use for 4K discs.
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post #519 of 651 Old 01-19-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Official BenQ HT2550 4K HDR Projector Review and Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
What does SDR tone mapping mean in this context? I am assuming it means I have to map HDR to SDR somehow?

In that case how do we tone mapping with this projector?



I simply want to stream HDR from Netflix/iTunes. I am trying to do this using Apple TV 4k. I also have access to an Xbox one X which use for 4K discs.


I don’t want this to sound harsh but you need to go re-read my previous posts to you. I’ve explained why this is.

To take it further. Here is a visual representation of the three color spaces currently employed in video:


The small triangle is 709, the middle triangle is DCI-P3 and the large triangle is 2020. The HT2550 covers the small triangle— Rec709. It does not have the capability to reproduce color outside of the rec709 triangle. This means the display has to either clip or remap those values to what it CAN display. BenQ does this through hue adjustments. In Chris Eberle’s review he posted this graph of the HT2550’s handling of BT2020:


You are not going to get accurate bt2020 color on a projector that is only capable of rec709. You are not going to get brilliant 1000 nit highlights on a projector that outputs fewer than 300 nits in HDR. In fact, you’re not going to get either with any projector anywhere near this price range. In fact, I don’t think there are many flat panels in this price range that can accurately reproduce bt2020 (although bright HDR LCDs are becoming quite common). DCI P3 is a bit more attainable at this point and BenQ has touted their new (higher priced) HT3550 as having 94% coverage of the DCI-P3 color space.

edit: I should have also mentioned that there isn’t much BT2020 content out there. Most content is graded for DCI-P3 and, in my experience, the HT2550 handles DCI-P3 content pretty well. Again, it’s performance won’t be reference quality considering the display’s rec709 limitations. In addition, clipping (which is what you are seeing in your pictures above) can be an issue with any projector if the content is being mapped properly.

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post #520 of 651 Old 01-19-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
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how do we tone mapping with this projector?
Just press play.
If you set your projector to SDR, then your Apple TV 4K and Xbox One X will each automagically tone map for you when appropriate. I have bought over 400x HDR Blu-rays and ripped them to my server which my Apple TV 4K reads. When I set my HT2550 to SDR mode, my Apple TV 4K knows to turn off HDR (so in Apply TV 4K settings it says "4K SDR"), but still plays the HDR movie at 4K and it converts the color mapping to fit the SDR color space (Rec 709).
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post #521 of 651 Old 01-19-2019, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
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I don’t want this to sound harsh but you need to go re-read my previous posts to you. I’ve explained why this is.
You are not going to get accurate bt2020 color on a projector that is only capable of rec709. You are not going to get brilliant 1000 nit highlights on a projector that outputs fewer than 300 nits in HDR.
...
In addition, clipping (which is what you are seeing in your pictures above) can be an issue with any projector if the content is being mapped properly.
Is there anything that can be done to reduce clipping? I can see that the details are showing up while reducing contrast. But I have to go all the way to 25-27 range to bring out all the details, and at that point the image looks too dark. I am unable to find contrast controls on Apple TV and neither do they offer settings lower nits on HDR. So at this point I can't reduce contrast on the source. But even in that case I believe the projector should be able to remap the source to lower nits instead of clipping it. I wish this is something that could be fixed via a firmware update but alas you can't update the firmware on this thing.

I am in no means an expert ( I don't even understand most of the technical explanation above). My scenario is very simple.
I have two HDR capable devices OneX and Apple TV 4K. And almost all of my HDR content comes from Netflix and movies via iTunes. My experience ( and this has been consistent ) is there is a huge difference in how the same content looks in SDR vs HDR. But I am confused why my HDR looks worse than the SDR. I would expect at least some marginal improvements ( Again I am not looking for reference level performance here.) when HDR is used.

Half the scenes I have tried while comparing SDR/HDR looks pretty much the same in both modes. But there are quite a lot of scenes(eg, the images I shared) which shows up terrible in HDR mode when compared to SDR.

So leaving out the theory and science (which I probably wont understand) is there an side by side comparison or even two images shot on a cell phone, that would demonstrate HDR performance which is better than SDR on this projector on the same scene? What I am doing is play some content in the native format (HDR) and then in SDR and I find SDR to be much better.

note:
I use Vivid TV for SDR which offers vivid colors, that explains why my SDR looking more colorful. But my concern is there is virtually no details on bright areas.
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post #522 of 651 Old 01-19-2019, 10:47 AM
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Is there anything that can be done to reduce clipping?
Yes! Tone map instead of clip. You still lose some information, but it's much better than clipping off colors completely.
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you can't update the firmware on this thing.
Yes, you can. I did. I opened a ticket with BenQ, they sent me a shipping label, I shipped my HT2550 at v.1.0.0 and a week later, my HT2550 arrived with v.1.0.3.
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I am confused why my HDR looks worse than the SDR. I would expect at least some marginal improvements ( Again I am not looking for reference level performance here.) when HDR is used.
Your expectations are out of line. We paid very little for these projectors compared some that cost over $100K. Although they promise to take in the signal, they don't promise to accurately output that signal well. It's a CHEAP projector and you cannot get good HDR results from it. It does SDR better than it does HDR.
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is there an side by side comparison or even two images shot on a cell phone, that would demonstrate HDR performance which is better than SDR on this projector on the same scene?
No. It's (mostly) impossible.
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post #523 of 651 Old 01-19-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
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Just press play.
If you set your projector to SDR, then your Apple TV 4K and Xbox One X will each automagically tone map for you when appropriate. I have bought over 400x HDR Blu-rays and ripped them to my server which my Apple TV 4K reads. When I set my HT2550 to SDR mode, my Apple TV 4K knows to turn off HDR (so in Apply TV 4K settings it says "4K SDR"), but still plays the HDR movie at 4K and it converts the color mapping to fit the SDR color space (Rec 709).
Yes, thank you.
This is exactly what I am doing right now. Set the projector to HDR and let Apple TV/Xbox OneX convert HDR to SDR. And I am blown away by the projector performance when it is set to SDR. So as far as how we are using the projector, we are on the same page.

But when a pure SDR input is provided how can we make sure the projector is using its full capabilities?

Assuming SDR is 100 nits on this projector and say it can handle up to 300 nits in the HDR mode why can't I see a better picture when the projector is fed HDR input?
What is preventing the projector from doing the mapping and producing an image that looks the same as the SDR image but with better dynamic range?
I am not asking the projector to do 1000 or 4000 nits but to do the mapping within 300 nits it can support.

Right now what I am seeing is all the details are getting lost when I sent HDR input to the projector. And from your responses I believe the details on the brighter areas are being clipped.
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post #524 of 651 Old 01-19-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
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What is preventing the projector from doing the mapping and producing an image that looks the same as the SDR image but with better dynamic range?
The quality of the components in the projector. It's a definitional problem. This projector is NOT an HDR projector, so it can't produce an HDR image. It can only ingest an HDR image to produce it to ALMOST SDR (96% by their adverts). If you define SDR to be able to do 100% of what SDR includes, then this projector isn't even that. Does this make sense?
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post #525 of 651 Old 01-19-2019, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I was about to link to an old article on Secrets about HDR but figured that might be too much of a deep dive. Luckily Chris Heinonen just posted a nice little summary of HDR tone mapping on his site. https://referencehometheater.com/201...ing-explained/

The following is quoted from Chris Heinonen in his article linked above. In the quote he is referencing a new customizable tone map feature on the new generation of LG OLEDs. While this is not specifically talking about projectors it’s still a good read and the concepts are similar.

“To understand the benefits of this new feature, you have to understand the basics of tone mapping. HDR content allows you to have much brighter highlights than before, and many of those highlights are brighter than a TV can display. HDR content has a peak light level, which the TV uses to determine how to display those highlights. The most common peak highlight levels (MaxCLL or Maximum Content Light Level) are typically 1000, 4000, and 10,000 nits. An OLED can typically display up to 700-750 nits, while the best LCDs can display around 2000 nits when calibrated. But based on the HDR data, there are highlights even brighter than this, and that’s where tone mapping comes in.

The tone mapping in a display adjusts how highlights too bright for the TV are shown. The simplest way is to clip highlights. With this method on an OLED TV, it displays everything up to 700 nits, and then everything above that is displayed as if it was 700 nits. This gives you the maximum possible light output but it also loses you the most detail as those bright objects, like clouds or snow, are now just white with no texture or details visible.

For most tone mapping, you instead display everything at the correct values up to a certain point, perhaps 150 or 300 nits, and then reduce the brightness of objects above that. In this case, the clouds you see won’t be as bright, but they’ll still be brighter than anything else on the screen. At the same time, you’ll maintain the details in them so they actually look like clouds and not just a white blob in the sky.

When I review a TV, I often watch some early scenes on the 4K disc of Pan that contains some very bright highlights. Depending on how the TV handles the tone mapping I might see details in the sky or they might disappear, and a bubble might have a rainbow of color on it or it might be solid white. There is also a scene in Batman vs. Superman where Ben Affleck has a white shirt that can either be completely white when a TV chooses to clip or have wrinkles and texture if it is tone mapping the highlight down to what the TV can display.

What is important is that neither of these options is wrong, but just different approaches to how to display content. Until now, how a TV chose to tone map was pretty much decided at the factory and you had to live with it, but with the new 2019 LG models, you are given some control over the process.”

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post #526 of 651 Old 01-20-2019, 04:13 PM
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Just wanted to let people know.
I hooked up my pc (intel nuc) to the projector and installed CyberLink PowerDVD on it. Every 3D movie file I have plays perfectly now!! If you cant get your 3D movies to play I highly recommend getting it.

Just wish I could find something on my Android box that would work.
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post #527 of 651 Old 01-20-2019, 05:48 PM
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Just wanted to let people know.
I hooked up my pc (intel nuc) to the projector and installed CyberLink PowerDVD on it. Every 3D movie file I have plays perfectly now!! If you cant get your 3D movies to play I highly recommend getting it.
Ya, that's an excellent way to get it working. I use the Samsung BD-JM63 and flash drive. It also plays frame-packed just fine. I really wish that Apple TV 4K supported frame-packed 3D.
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post #528 of 651 Old 01-21-2019, 03:42 AM
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Just posted on the W1700 thread, but what I'm reading here is interesting regarding SDR settings. Unfortunately my blu ray player won't allow me to adjust the contrast etc like some of you can, but I was thinking of picking up the Panasonic UB 820 due to it's ability to further control tone mapping - I imagine this player would be a big benefit to owners of these projectors?
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post #529 of 651 Old 01-21-2019, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Just posted on the W1700 thread, but what I'm reading here is interesting regarding SDR settings. Unfortunately my blu ray player won't allow me to adjust the contrast etc like some of you can, but I was thinking of picking up the Panasonic UB 820 due to it's ability to further control tone mapping - I imagine this player would be a big benefit to owners of these projectors?


The Panasonic has the best regarded HDR to SDR conversion currently available. It’s a popular Blu-ray player for projector owners. Check out Vincent Teoh’s review on YouTube (channel hdtvtest).


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post #530 of 651 Old 01-22-2019, 08:42 PM
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Hi all,

I am in need of some advice. I am buying a projector - finally after prepping a room 4 years ago and loosing it to kids moving back in since. I have about 1-3 months and then I have to sell the house and who know after that - I will be damned if I don't get a projector in there even if for a few minutes.

So, I need a 4k projector cheap, that I may resell, and I can get by without having to learn it in depth - though I am very technical and will learn what I need. And, my wife is buying and the offer won't last long. LOL

So, on the quick, I have a room that seems sized for the 2550/800. It has two windows I can block but I like a tiny bit of light at least. I have some 3D movies.

First, should I get a BenQ at all,

and second should I get a HT2550, or the HK800?

In case it matters: My past ownership has been Pioneer Last gen plasma calibrated. An OLED C, and a Sony 940d.

Oh, screen will be - at least this cycle, the wall, (white-ish) or a roll of high quality audio transparent screen (maybe not good for 4k?). Or I will buy something appropriate if cheap and I have time.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks, Steve

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post #531 of 651 Old 01-23-2019, 07:11 AM
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The Panasonic has the best regarded HDR to SDR conversion currently available. It’s a popular Blu-ray player for projector owners. Check out Vincent Teoh’s review on YouTube (channel hdtvtest).


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Thanks for the response, I'll definitely check out the video. I went ahead and ordered the Panasonic, I should have it this weekend. I went ahead after doing some basic tests with disabling the HDR on the projector and found the image much more impressive, so I reckon I've found the answer I'm looking for with tone mapping. Some fantastic info in this thread, by the way, thanks to all who contributed!
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Official BenQ HT2550 4K HDR Projector Review and Owners Thread

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Hi all,



I am in need of some advice. I am buying a projector - finally after prepping a room 4 years ago and loosing it to kids moving back in since. I have about 1-3 months and then I have to sell the house and who know after that - I will be damned if I don't get a projector in there even if for a few minutes.



So, I need a 4k projector cheap, that I may resell, and I can get by without having to learn it in depth - though I am very technical and will learn what I need. And, my wife is buying and the offer won't last long. LOL



So, on the quick, I have a room that seems sized for the 2550/800. It has two windows I can block but I like a tiny bit of light at least. I have some 3D movies.



First, should I get a BenQ at all,



and second should I get a HT2550, or the HK800?



In case it matters: My past ownership has been Pioneer Last gen plasma calibrated. An OLED C, and a Sony 940d.



Oh, screen will be - at least this cycle, the wall, (white-ish) or a roll of high quality audio transparent screen (maybe not good for 4k?). Or I will buy something appropriate if cheap and I have time.



Any advice would be really appreciated.



Thanks, Steve


First, keep your expectations in check. I own several plasmas and while I love my front projector it doesn’t have comparable contrast/blacks. You can get comparable contrast and blacks but you need a fully light controlled room and a more expensive projector— something like a JVC DILA and they start at $4k. The flip side is the projector will provide you with a much larger, more immersive image with great color and excellent resolution.

Second, as I just mentioned, your room is much more important to a projector than it is to a flatscreen. Even a dimmer plasma/OLED. The darker you can make your room and the better you can control reflections the better the image on screen will be.

With all that said there are projectors out there specifically designed to compete with ambient light. The BenQ TK800 is one of them. If you are putting this in a mixed use room and prefer to have some light present when you’re watching then the answer is clear: go with the TK800. Just be conscious of the fact that light is the enemy of contrast/blacks especially when it comes to projectors.

Lastly, you really want a screen. While a wall will work in a pinch it’s not ideal as it will typically be very low gain which will blunt color reproduction. And while your wall surface might appear smooth at first your projector is going to reveal otherwise. But there is nothing wrong with getting the projector first and then settling on a screen and screen size that works for you.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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post #533 of 651 Old 01-23-2019, 08:11 PM
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First, keep your expectations in check. I own several plasmas and while I love my front projector it doesn’t have comparable contrast/blacks. You can get comparable contrast and blacks but you need a fully light controlled room and a more expensive projector— something like a JVC DILA and they start at $4k. The flip side is the projector will provide you with a much larger, more immersive image with great color and excellent resolution.

Second, as I just mentioned, your room is much more important to a projector than it is to a flatscreen. Even a dimmer plasma/OLED. The darker you can make your room and the better you can control reflections the better the image on screen will be.

With all that said there are projectors out there specifically designed to compete with ambient light. The BenQ TK800 is one of them. If you are putting this in a mixed use room and prefer to have some light present when you’re watching then the answer is clear: go with the TK800. Just be conscious of the fact that light is the enemy of contrast/blacks especially when it comes to projectors.

Lastly, you really want a screen. While a wall will work in a pinch it’s not ideal as it will typically be very low gain which will blunt color reproduction. And while your wall surface might appear smooth at first your projector is going to reveal otherwise. But there is nothing wrong with getting the projector first and then settling on a screen and screen size that works for you.
Hi, and thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated. I have some exposure so I agree I can't get top tier flatscreen contrast without a top tier or at least an up the scale projector. In the future if I find I use it and have a new digs that allow some boom - I very well might get serious about one. And yes about the wall - I've done drywall, and saw mine done with double layer on green stuff on existing - and they did a "took 2 weeks of work-rework to get it about flat job". Read as: it will suck. I probably will use that for size and placement then stretch and hang what I have....then finally get a quality screen - again after my new place is setup.

But you really helped on the TK800. My walls will be white or random blankets -maybee - black fabric - but not much else and a white ceiling. Yeah, really bad. So I think the extra Lumens will help.

I hope to order tomorrow - after hoping today lol. I'll let y'all know how cheap a theater about the class of a cardboard box will look.

Thanks again,
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post #534 of 651 Old 01-24-2019, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Official BenQ HT2550 4K HDR Projector Review and Owners Thread

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Hi, and thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated. I have some exposure so I agree I can't get top tier flatscreen contrast without a top tier or at least an up the scale projector. In the future if I find I use it and have a new digs that allow some boom - I very well might get serious about one. And yes about the wall - I've done drywall, and saw mine done with double layer on green stuff on existing - and they did a "took 2 weeks of work-rework to get it about flat job". Read as: it will suck. I probably will use that for size and placement then stretch and hang what I have....then finally get a quality screen - again after my new place is setup.



But you really helped on the TK800. My walls will be white or random blankets -maybee - black fabric - but not much else and a white ceiling. Yeah, really bad. So I think the extra Lumens will help.



I hope to order tomorrow - after hoping today lol. I'll let y'all know how cheap a theater about the class of a cardboard box will look.



Thanks again,

No worries!

Here’s the thing, the TK800 is made for that room. Yes, having a blacked out theater with a high dollar / high contrast projector is awesome. You know what else is awesome? Having your friends over and lounging in your living room while you watch the game on a screen the size of a wall.

Here on AVS we tend to favor the ‘home theater’ side of the projector market. But the truth is projectors are great for use outside the theater. As long as you have your expectations in check about what is and isn’t possible as it concerns black levels then you’ll be fine. A projector like the TK800 is bright enough to compete with ambient light and as long as you tailor the environment a little— no direct light on the screen or using a grey screen/wall for example— you’ll be surprised at how useable it is as a TV replacement. And, of course, when the lights go off you’ll enjoy it even more.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Last edited by sage11x; 01-25-2019 at 06:20 AM.
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post #535 of 651 Old 01-25-2019, 09:16 PM
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Hi sage11x

Thanks again. And thanks for that last line. I am for the moment able to laugh off almost any purchase and have had to laugh off soooooooooo many, that any material thing is just that....something that will be at least a gift or a piece of landfill. In fact, my preferred byline - in light of global warming and my age is: thanks for the fish.

Anyway my wife just announced she wants to battle her ultimate war a bit more, so I'll get to spend some tweak time and entertainment time before I sell out the space. After all she is the NFL and NBA fan and has the most friends. I do have a friend inside Sony, but I think this test case will be worth not playing that card at this time. - sometimes employees get great deals and sometimes its not so good.

Steve
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sage11x, or all....

I bought the TK800, and got it running. Nothing permanent or to be proud of - but on a shaky unmounted crappy shelf unit - a Denon just unwrapped from a repair on a refurb - projecting on a Swiss Coffee wall (no wall defects showing - woo hoo). So far, no sound (even from the projector), but my DISH joey and Amazon Fire are showing. I need another 4k BR player.

Now for the quick first "huh" and step one...given I had about 10 minutes of play time...At first things seemed full screen then seem to be a smaller screen within the full projector field. Some channels from the DISH Joey were flashing fairly regularly - like 30-60 second intervals. No sound, many other buttons were grayed out.

BUT, at moments when things were not being noticed - a great image given the near zero attention it got. AND... we found a ton of miles on my wife's credit card - which translated to $700 in Amazon credit. She told me to keep it. Nice, I something a bit above MonoPrice $150 speakers. LOL.

I'm not sure I will be up to speed before I have to pack and move it, but I FINALLY can tell myself I got a theater.

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Anyone got any thoughts on the 'Pixel Enhancer' during 4K playback? I had it set at 3, but I noticed during playback of the Prince of Darkness 4K disc that I was getting some dreadful 'shimmering' in low lit scenes. When I dropped off the pixel enhancer it disappeared mostly, as if it was exaggerating the poorly resolved grain, or something. I know this disc has a heap of encoding problems so this one is an extreme case no doubt, but just wondering if I'm better off leaving this function disabled?
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Anyone got any thoughts on the 'Pixel Enhancer' during 4K playback? I had it set at 3, but I noticed during playback of the Prince of Darkness 4K disc that I was getting some dreadful 'shimmering' in low lit scenes. When I dropped off the pixel enhancer it disappeared mostly, as if it was exaggerating the poorly resolved grain, or something. I know this disc has a heap of encoding problems so this one is an extreme case no doubt, but just wondering if I'm better off leaving this function disabled?


I like the feature at the low settings where it gives a nice boost to image sharpness without noticeable artifacting. I think I keep mine at 3 or 4.

Sounds like this might be a one-off you can blame on the content. I haven’t experienced anything similar in all my time with the projector.
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What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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I like the feature at the low settings where it gives a nice boost to image sharpness without noticeable artifacting. I think I keep mine at 3 or 4.

Sounds like this might be a one-off you can blame on the content. I haven’t experienced anything similar in all my time with the projector.
Yeah, I had tested a few discs after I got the Panasonic player I mentioned a week or two ago (for what it's worth, running 4K content in SDR with that player looks incredible - far beyond what I was getting with HDR on the projector), and this was the only disc giving me the uglies. I too had liked what I had seen with the feature set at 3 - as you say, no ringing, artifacting, etc. I think I'll leave it as is - no doubt you've watched a lot more 4K content than I have - and I'll chalk it down to the bad encode on the disc.

I'm generally super cautious with sharpening images, but this projector seems to be fine with sharpness around 6, and pixel enhancer at 3.
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Yeah, I had tested a few discs after I got the Panasonic player I mentioned a week or two ago (for what it's worth, running 4K content in SDR with that player looks incredible - far beyond what I was getting with HDR on the projector), and this was the only disc giving me the uglies. I too had liked what I had seen with the feature set at 3 - as you say, no ringing, artifacting, etc. I think I'll leave it as is - no doubt you've watched a lot more 4K content than I have - and I'll chalk it down to the bad encode on the disc.

I'm generally super cautious with sharpening images, but this projector seems to be fine with sharpness around 6, and pixel enhancer at 3.
So far I've only run into one disc that has any issues. Unfortunately it's one of my favorite reference discs: the UHD re-release of The Dark Crystal. For whatever reason this movie has an annoying flicker that shows up throughout the movie. Not sure if this has to do with the 3:2 pulldown or something to do with the way the movie is filmed not playing well with the pixel shifting frequency. I have a similar issue with this disc when I force 24Hz on one of my old plasmas.


Other than that I haven't had any issues. In fact, the vast majority of the time I'm simply blown away by how much value this projector offers. The 4K release of MI: Fallout contains some of the best IMAX material I've yet seen in a feature film and this projector handles it beautifully. PE2 and BP2 are simply stunning. I bought Interstellar on 4K bluray-- a movie I have a conflicted opinion of-- just to witness those jaw dropping IMAX scenes.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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