4K Projectors capable of true 120hz at 1080p - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 02-23-2018, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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4K Projectors capable of true 120hz at 1080p

HDMI 2.0 officially supports 120hz at 1080p so there is no reason for any projector to not accept it.

To encourage more manufacturers to do so, and help users out who are like me, I'm compiling a list of 4K Projectors with support for 120hz for gaming, 3D or true high framerate (HFR) enthusiasts.

120hz in 2D also theoretically opens the door to unofficial frame sequential 3D support, if you can sync LCD shutter glasses from your PC via IR transmitters available online. This will be 60hz per eye 3D, so Bluray 24p framepacked content will either be shown using 3:2 pulldown judder or you have to do frame interpolation on your PC. It's also possible to sync at 96hz (48hz per eye), using 2:2 pulldown but that remains to be seen. Users would have to add a custom 48hz mode at 1080p and then enable 3D display, if 96hz doesn't work outright. There's a good chance it will, but few seem willing to try it.

Here's the list so far, I will update this post as more become confirmed.

Note, it's not enough for the projector to state in its manual it supports 1920 x 1080 x 120hz, users should make sure it's really doing true 120hz by checking TestUfo's FrameSkipping test, that it doesn't miss drawing any squares:

https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping

BenQ HT2550 / W1700:

https://benqesupport.blob.core.windo...1114133730.pdf

(Page 44)

Acer VL7860:

https://global-download.acer.com/GDF...CER&SC=EMEA_27

(Page 43)

-----------------
Recommendations for Gaming: pass on these for now.

The BenQ has 600:1 contrast ratio but 50ms input lag, while the Acer is 1900:1 and laser + FI + WCG, but 80ms input lag even with FI disabled. Bummer.

Also while the 2X XPR models (0.66 inch chip) have twice the number of mirrors and thus resolution, you cannot input at the native resolution (2716 x 1528) which means 1080p 120hz will be smoother but not as sharp as it could be. Therefore for 1080p content you're better off with a 1080p native display and thus an XPR 2X or eshift projector.

Perhaps Epson or JVC will release a 120hz 1080p mode to their 2018 / 2019 projectors for frame sequential 3D at 1080p60, which is the same thing as 1080p 120hz in 2D.

The ultimate for me would be a decent contrast 4k (via eShift or quad XPR) capable of 1080p / 120hz + HDR + WCG + Laser + Low input lag for gaming.

The Epson 5040 has over 5000:1 native contrast ratio so even an update to that model with true 18 gbps HDMI 2.0 chips could enable 120hz at 1080p for gaming later this year hopefully. Their low lamp costs, high lumens for 3D, low input lag combined with fairly high contrast (compared to DLP) makes them appealing. Crosstalk in 3D is worse than DLP but for 120hz 2D it's likely better, since the difference between two frames in 2D is likely less than left and right eyes in 3D, which is what LCDs would have to transition between 120 times a second.

There's also a good chance that other XPR DLPs will add support for 120hz input via firmware update. There is literally no reason they can't, except for lack manufacturer will. 120hz 1080p is officially mandated in HDMI 2.0 and all of these projectors are capable of 120hz internally already.

Let's do this!
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post #2 of 14 Old 02-23-2018, 03:59 PM
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I am pretty sure that none of the projectors listed are actually 4k projectors. The XPR DLP projectors I believe are all native 2716×1528 which do pixel shifting to 4k, and this has allowed marketing to call them native 4k but they're not. They don't even have to call this out in their spec sheet

On side-by-side comparisons watching 4k video this may not matter so much as even the e-shifted 4k video looks close to the native 4k video (based on seating distance). But this thread is about games. And 4k gaming is super noticeable on large projector screens. You would get a lot more from a true 4k projector in games at 60hz than you'd get out of a faux 4k pixel shifter at 120hz. In any case, I think the correct answer to your thread is "none". There are no true 4k 120hz projectors that I know of.

The Sony 4k projectors with their low lag and ultra high resolution are fantastic for gaming. But they don't support 120hz (not sure why that would be a requirement though).

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post #3 of 14 Old 02-23-2018, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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4K at 60hz is only sharper than 1080p at 120hz when the camera is perfectly still, because the motion blur in 60hz is typically larger than 1 pixel which cuts the resolution in half.

You should really look at the demos at Blurbusters.com to learn more about how image persistence (directly related to framerate) affects sharpness and clarity.



120hz has half the persistence of 60hz but still is far from high enough to take full advantage of 1080p (or any given resolution). Since video games are often about fast action, if you can't see the benefits of higher hz vs higher static resolution, that's on you. But there's a reason why pro gamers use lower res 1080p screens with super high refresh rates instead of 4K, it's because 4K actually delivers blurrier motion which is in fact, lower (motion) resolution.
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post #4 of 14 Old 02-23-2018, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
Perhaps Epson or JVC will release a 120hz 1080p mode to their 2018 / 2019 projectors for frame sequential 3D at 1080p60, which is the same thing as 1080p 120hz in 2D.

The ultimate for me would be a decent contrast 4k (via eShift or quad XPR) capable of 1080p / 120hz + HDR + WCG + Laser + Low input lag for gaming.

The Epson 5040 has over 5000:1 native contrast ratio so even an update to that model with true 18 gbps HDMI 2.0 chips could enable 120hz at 1080p for gaming later this year hopefully. Their low lamp costs, high lumens for 3D, low input lag combined with fairly high contrast (compared to DLP) makes them appealing. Crosstalk in 3D is worse than DLP but for 120hz 2D it's likely better, since the difference between two frames in 2D is likely less than left and right eyes in 3D, which is what LCDs would have to transition between 120 times a second.

There's also a good chance that other XPR DLPs will add support for 120hz input via firmware update. There is literally no reason they can't, except for lack manufacturer will. 120hz 1080p is officially mandated in HDMI 2.0 and all of these projectors are capable of 120hz internally already.

Let's do this!
The bigger companies can do it, but you'll be paying through the nose to get a top of the line projector.

It's just too early with far better alternatives elsewhere.
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post #5 of 14 Old 02-23-2018, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's a video comparing 1080p at 120 fps to 4K at 60 fps:


If 4K vs 1080p improving static resolution is all the more noticeable on the big screen than a typical UHD HDTV, then so are higher refresh rates which improves motion resolution and are visible no matter how far away one sits.

1080p 120 delivers more clarity, more of the time, for half the effort compared to 4K60 (which is equivalent to 1080p 240hz in terms of pixel clock, 600mhz or so).
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post #6 of 14 Old 03-12-2018, 05:01 AM
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Any updates to a tested list?
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post #7 of 14 Old 08-27-2018, 04:55 AM
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Thanks, I'll be definitely watching this thread.
I'm looking to buy a 4k/60 1080/120 capable projector.

It's sad that few people seem to be interested in this. And even fewer manufacturers care to list supported modes.
I've got an old Optoma HD141X which is a 3D capable projector and can switch to non-3D 720p/120Hz. However, convincing games to use that rather than default 1080p/60Hz is nightmare.


For your info. Input lag for ones you've suggested are:
Acer VL7860 - 43ms? or 79ms?
BenQ W1700 - 33ms

sigh... I'm not allowed to post links for the above...
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post #8 of 14 Old 07-19-2019, 12:34 PM
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ill be watching this thread as well!! i have an old 1080p infocus projector my work let me buy for $100. i figure it can hold me over until i can get something that does what i want for a price i can afford.

what about these
https://www.blurbusters.com/low-lag-...ptoma-hd27hdr/

Last edited by carlosriosness; 07-19-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-20-2019, 04:48 PM
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This video claims 120hz support for the UHD3000a at 3:10:


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post #10 of 14 Old 07-20-2019, 05:55 PM
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I've used the Xbox One X briefly set to 120Hz 1080p using the Optoma UHD51A when the feature was first added to the Xbox but use 4K primarily.
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Display: Optoma UHD51A Projector > Elite Screens R135WH1 ezFrame | 7.2.4 Audio: Onkyo TX-RZ920 9.2ch Network A/V Receiver, M-5010 2ch Amplifier; Definitive Technology ProCenter 2000, ProMonitor 1000(x10), SuperCube I & 4000 | Sources: PC, DirecTV, Apple 4K, Fire Stick 4K, Oppo UDP-203, Chromecast & Roku Ultras, Xbox One X, PlayStation 4 Pro & Nintendo Switch | Remote: Harmony Elite | HDMI: 40' Monoprice DynamicView+4x1 Switch
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post #11 of 14 Old 07-21-2019, 11:02 AM
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Mine does 1080p/120hz very well. Highly recommended for a cheap projector.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

JVC RS400, Denon X6300H, Klipsch RP-280F x 2, RP-450C, RB-51 II x 2, RS-42 II x 2, RB-41 II x 2, R-150M in 7.1.4, 150" Silver Ticket
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post #12 of 14 Old 08-30-2019, 03:23 AM
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In Europe there is also the Acer G550 Nitro.

Its basically an Optoma HD27HDR (HD29H in Europe) but with an RGBRGB Color wheel.
https://www.acer.com/ac/de/DE/conten...l/MR.JQW11.001
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-30-2019, 07:28 AM
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I’m also interested in a 4K projector that supports 1080p @120 hz.

Does anyone know if the Epson 5050 supports 120hz?
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post #14 of 14 Old 08-30-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
I’m also interested in a 4K projector that supports 1080p @120 hz.

Does anyone know if the Epson 5050 supports 120hz?

60hz max for the HC5050.
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