BenQ TK800 Announced. - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 754 Old 04-17-2018, 01:40 PM
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I would, but I sold my DLP Link glasses along with my Viewsonic H1180HD a few months back.
I can send you a pair if you give me your address.

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post #62 of 754 Old 04-17-2018, 04:56 PM
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post #63 of 754 Old 04-17-2018, 05:01 PM
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This is what I'm talking about... Sending out some glasses for another member to do testing. Awesome guys!!!!

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post #64 of 754 Old 04-17-2018, 05:08 PM
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This is what I'm talking about... Sending out some glasses for another member to do testing. Awesome guys!!!!

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post #65 of 754 Old 04-18-2018, 04:39 AM
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Hi,

I'm new to this forum. I don't have a tv at home. I watch movies and soccer in my laptop, when home. Since World Cup 2018 is coming and I'm not planning to watch a lot of tv after it, I decided to buy my first projector. I've been researching a lot past two months. TK800 is the model which got my attention lately, because of its strong sports oriented settings/hardware. But apart from sports I can't really guess if it's also good for movies/tv series. Please advise.
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post #66 of 754 Old 04-18-2018, 05:57 AM
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Hi,



I'm new to this forum. I don't have a tv at home. I watch movies and soccer in my laptop, when home. Since World Cup 2018 is coming and I'm not planning to watch a lot of tv after it, I decided to buy my first projector. I've been researching a lot past two months. TK800 is the model which got my attention lately, because of its strong sports oriented settings/hardware. But apart from sports I can't really guess if it's also good for movies/tv series. Please advise.


It should be 100% fine for TV/Movies.

The reason why the very similar HT2550 is marketed more towards movie watching is it’s dimmer light output and RGbRGB color wheel is more ideal for color accuracy and contrast in a theater dark room. If you watch TV/Movies with some ambient light or want a projector that can fill multiple roles then the TK800 would be a fine choice. As far as real world performance differences I cannot comment as I have yet to get hands on with one of these and there are no professional reviews yet.
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post #67 of 754 Old 04-18-2018, 06:56 AM
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The reason that color accuracy is not as critical when viewing in ambient light is because ambient light skews the colors reflected from the screen. So even if you had a perfectly calibrated projector the image colors would be polluted by the ambient light and color accuracy would be compromised.
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post #68 of 754 Old 04-18-2018, 01:14 PM
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I want to see a comparison between this and the Viewsonic PX-747.Projectorcentral actually preferred the 727 over the 2550.I wonder if they would come to the same conclusion between the 747 and the 800 since they are both with the higher lumen output version of the 727 and 2550.
I have the PX-747 and can see why PC was overly joyed about the PX-727.The image is the cleanest and sharpest between the 3 4K's I've had.(Samsung JS9500,Acer M5500 and Viewsonic PX-747)
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post #69 of 754 Old 04-18-2018, 08:21 PM
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I want to see a comparison between this and the Viewsonic PX-747.Projectorcentral actually preferred the 727 over the 2550.I wonder if they would come to the same conclusion between the 747 and the 800 since they are both with the higher lumen output version of the 727 and 2550.
I have the PX-747 and can see why PC was overly joyed about the PX-727.The image is the cleanest and sharpest between the 3 4K's I've had.(Samsung JS9500,Acer M5500 and Viewsonic PX-747)
I have been considering the 747 as I do need the extra lumens. I just dont know if its worth waiting as I feel Epson is due to release a new model soon. Epsons have always seemed to do better for me in my living room scenario. urbeenjammin do you have pics/vids etc. Any numbers or info on the 747? How long have you had it?

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post #70 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 08:04 AM
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I'm getting close to writing a full review but I'm still having some trouble with UHD discs having notably more noise/grain than other 4K & HDR sources. I noticed it first with my Samsung K8500 and no I'm seeing the same with an M8500 but to a slightly lesser degree. I'd rather not have to try a third UHD player but, if I did, I would probably give the Sony X800 a try next. Noise Reduction is not available in the BenQ menu when watching 4K UHD and the player's noise reduction doesn't seem to have much impact. Applying noise reduction through my AVR will be the next attempt at a remedy.

Has anyone else seen this and possibly have a fix or workaround?

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post #71 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 08:53 AM
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Noise can be a function of a lot of things. Perhaps HDR mismatch, or your sharpness is turned up to high, or gamma set wrong. Also, long run cables can collect noise along the way, but you usually see some sparklies mixed in as well. Or your projector is plugged into a different outlet than your receiver, and there is a ground loop (although, that usually causes audio hum or faint image lines). Or the cords are too close together. UHD is a lot of data, so a poor hdmi cable or too long of a cable is most likely the culprit, especially if you are not seeing this with a HD bluray disc vs. a UHD bluray disc. Also, sending a 4K signal through your receiver and then to the projector is the most problematic as many will tell you. Best to capture the sound from your bluray by a separate audio cable and go directly to the projector from your bluray player. And make sure your bluray is sending a 4K signal out, and you see in the info that you're are getting a 4K signal input and not an upscaled image.

Or, and this is a big OR, you just aren't used to seeing all that detail, and you are used to a softer image from a 1080p projector . You also might try streaming a 4K from a website like Vudu, and see if you see the same noise.
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post #72 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 01:47 PM
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Noise can be a function of a lot of things...
Running through some of the ideas you mentioned...

1.) The player is outputting 4K 24Hz HDR BT.2020 and projector is seeing the same and switching to HDR mode. I've also forced HDR mode after verifying the player is outputting HDR with no impact. I've tried forcing 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 from the player with no impact.

2.) Sharpness changes on both projector and player do not impact the noise. Same is true for Noise Reduction changes on the player end.

3.) Gamma changes on the projector end do not impact the noise. The setting is only available when the film is not playing, so the setting may not be applied at all when the film is playing for all I know.

4.) No sparkles, so I don't think it's a cable issue. Again, forcing the player to 4:2:2 cadence (thus further limiting bandwidth requirements) has no impact. Cable is 35' Monoprice DynamicView active cable advertised and well reviewed as 4k60 HDR / 18Gbps capable.

5.) No audio hum or image lines, so I don't think it's a ground loop.

6.) Going directly from player to projector vs. through AVR has no impact.

7.) This may be the most important... 4K UHD HDR from other sources (primarily Shield TV playing Vudu/Netflix/Amazon/Plex) do not exhibit this type of noise. As a semi-controlled comparison, I have viewed the same scenes from Last Jedi via UHD Disc and BluRay Disc from both Samsung K8500 and M8500, and Vudu UHD HDR Stream from NVidia ShieldTV Pro (it doesn't seem the M8500 suppords UHD Vudu, only the M9500). ONLY the UHD disc displays the noise/grain in question and to a slightly lesser degree from the M8500 compared to the K8500. I've also viewed other 4K UHD HDR content (Netflix/Amazon/etc) from both the disc players and ShieldTV and see no similar noise.

ONLY UHD discs seem to exhibit this noise and changing players had at least a small impact on the noise level. I'm afraid the hassle of trying another player (again, probably the Sony X800) is going to be my next test. That said, Best Buy is pretty much my only local source for this kind of device and they have apparently started monitoring/refusing habitual returns nationwide and I don't want to get caught up in that and stuck with multiple players.

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post #73 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 02:06 PM
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When you say noise, is it film grain type noise? Or noise in dark areas and low light scenes only? Or same noise level throughout the movie? Can you switch to silent mode--4k off and see if the resulting 1080p image looks the same. I'm thinking it's the detail boost by some setting, not actually noise. How close do you sit to the screen? Is it something you can take a picture of for comparison to online 4K video?
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post #74 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 02:10 PM
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Definitely more like a film grain noise. It is NOT present in dark areas or low light. Instead, I see it most in solid whites and in skin/faces. As I've mentioned, it's at its most apparent in Supreme Leader Snoke's face/skin in the throne room scenes of Last Jedi. I'm not sure I can capture it in a photo because it is not nearly as apparent when paused/still compared to when the image is moving. I'll poke around for any detail enhancement features and see if those have any effect, but I've looked for and disabled anything like that I can think of. The fact that is ONLY present on UHD Discs is the most perplexing part.

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post #75 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 02:28 PM
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There is little compression in bluray discs, so that could make a difference with the detail being more apparent than watching streamed material, which probably has a lower bit rate. It might be that the original scene was over corrected in post and that shows up on the image. I know this sounds nuts, but try defocusing the lens slightly to blend the image. People used to do this during the early days of the LCD projectors to avoid the screen door effect. You might find the image more palatable then.
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post #76 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 02:34 PM
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I tried SILENCE and that did seem to take most of the edge off of the noise. Any idea how this could be achieved without SILENCE mode? I guess this makes sense because the 1080p output of 4K discs to my previous 1080p projector had no noise problems either. I'm still not sure this narrows it down to player or projector though.

Also, if the cable can handle 4:4:4 60Hz HDR from other sources, why is 4:2:2 24Hz HDR from Blu-Ray disc an issue? I'm fairly sure that, once decoded, the 4:4:4 60Hz HDR streaming source will actually represent a higher bandwidth load across the HDMI cable than the 4:2:2 24Hz HDR Blu-Ray disc, even if there's less detail in the image itself.

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post #77 of 754 Old 04-19-2018, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbladr View Post
I have been considering the 747 as I do need the extra lumens. I just dont know if its worth waiting as I feel Epson is due to release a new model soon. Epsons have always seemed to do better for me in my living room scenario. urbeenjammin do you have pics/vids etc. Any numbers or info on the 747? How long have you had it?
Here you go...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-dig...projector.html
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post #78 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 07:28 AM
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I tried SILENCE and that did seem to take most of the edge off of the noise. Any idea how this could be achieved without SILENCE mode? I guess this makes sense because the 1080p output of 4K discs to my previous 1080p projector had no noise problems either. I'm still not sure this narrows it down to player or projector though.



Also, if the cable can handle 4:4:4 60Hz HDR from other sources, why is 4:2:2 24Hz HDR from Blu-Ray disc an issue? I'm fairly sure that, once decoded, the 4:4:4 60Hz HDR streaming source will actually represent a higher bandwidth load across the HDMI cable than the 4:2:2 24Hz HDR Blu-Ray disc, even if there's less detail in the image itself.


Have you tried turning on DCTI and DLTI in the CinemaMaster menu under Advanced Picture?

What player are you using?

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post #79 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 07:39 AM
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Have you tried turning on DCTI and DLTI in the CinemaMaster menu under Advanced Picture?

What player are you using?


The TK800 does not have the Cinema Master menu setting like the HT2550 has.

I have logged a few more hours with this thing and I continue to be pleasantly surprised about how the colors do not seem washed out at all despite the RGBW color wheel.

I sat in the first row of my theater and watched the Jazz take it to the Thunder. 160” screen at 11 feet with this bright and beautiful image was an awesome immersive watching experience

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post #80 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 08:28 AM
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Based on that last comment about brightness, I really want to hear about how 3D does on this. It might be the answer for me, as I too have a 160" screen.
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post #81 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 08:52 AM
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I should be able to report on 3D next week... a kind forum member is sending me a pair of glasses, and a buddy of mine has a handful of discs I can test (including Force Awakens, Avatar, and a few others).
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post #82 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
The TK800 does not have the Cinema Master menu setting like the HT2550 has.

I have logged a few more hours with this thing and I continue to be pleasantly surprised about how the colors do not seem washed out at all despite the RGBW color wheel.

I sat in the first row of my theater and watched the Jazz take it to the Thunder. 160” screen at 11 feet with this bright and beautiful image was an awesome immersive watching experience


It should still have DLTI and DCTI settings as those are part of BenQ’s XPR suite. Or does BenQ leave them on by default??

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #83 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 09:45 AM
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It should still have DLTI and DCTI settings as those are part of BenQ’s XPR suite. Or does BenQ leave them on by default??


I am not sure about leaving them on by default. I can ask. But that whole setting group is gone and I could not find DLTI setting anywhere else.

Could you give me high level explaining of DLTI AND DCTI?

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post #84 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 09:46 AM
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It should still have DLTI and DCTI settings as those are part of BenQ’s XPR suite. Or does BenQ leave them on by default??
Definitely nothing like that in the menus I'm seeing...

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post #85 of 754 Old 04-20-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
I am not sure about leaving them on by default. I can ask. But that whole setting group is gone and I could not find DLTI setting anywhere else.

Could you give me high level explaining of DLTI AND DCTI?
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Definitely nothing like that in the menus I'm seeing...
Digital Color Transient Improvement and Digital Luminance Transient Improvement. They are both sharpening algorithms but the latter is specifically designed to reduce image noise (which may or may not be caused by the XPR process itself).

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post #86 of 754 Old 04-21-2018, 11:59 AM
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I should be able to report on 3D next week... a kind forum member is sending me a pair of glasses, and a buddy of mine has a handful of discs I can test (including Force Awakens, Avatar, and a few others).
Definitely looking forward to seeing how 3D performs. I have a 150" screen and 3D is a must for me..

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post #87 of 754 Old 04-24-2018, 02:43 PM
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Wake up. We need reviews right now this minute...
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Hey guys! “Week 1” version of my review is here! More to come but here goes!

In short, The TK800 is an EXCELLENT follow up to their recently launched HT2550. For context, The HT2550 was the first 4K projector launched at a sub-$1,500 price point and represents one of the best values in 4K projection to date. Excellent color, sharpness, and brightness in a compact form factor led to me being blown away by the value it created in this segment of the market. I’ll refer to the HT2550 a few times in this review but lets talk about it’s brother, the TK800…

As I stated in my review of the HT2550 - the TK800 maintains has to be viewed and judged from the lens (ha) of 4K projection. This is definitely a different market than the 1080p projector market so 4K needs to be one of your top priorities when looking at this projector.

I did a lot of research on this projector before-hand. I was really interested in it’s 3000 lumen claim above the HT2550’s 2200 lumens. Reason being is I have a massive 160” screen that can use all the brightness it can get. Don’t get me wrong, the HT2550 produced a great image with accurate color. But the brightness of the HT2550, as I stated in my review, was juuuuuust bright enough. If I had a wish list it would be a tad brighter image with all the greatness that the HT2550 brought to the table.

ENTER THE TK800

After a few weeks with this projector I’m happy to report that I am VERY impressed with it. Before firing it up I was slightly concerned about the move from an RGBRGB to RGBW color wheel. After all, on paper, THE ONLY thing that changed in the TK800 vs the HT2550 is the Color Wheel. I’m sure the color engine and calibration wizardry changed as well, but the light engine is using the same power draw and it has the same chassis (albeit blue vs black front plate), throw ratio, and offset as the HT2550.

So lets talk about this color wheel since it is the main change in this projector since that is it’s differentiator. Older DLP projectors typically used this clear “White” slice of the RGBW color wheel to boost white lumens produced by the projector but they left the color lumens behind. Additionally, when those DLP projectors of the past tried to eek out color lumens with that “White” slice, the color image became washed out. I was concerned this might be the case with the TK800…

NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND.

Somehow, someway… the BenQ engineers have calibrated this RGBW color wheel to produce a brighter, punchier, image that maintains very respectable color accuracy. The result is an image where, due to extra lumens, perceived contrast is improved, color is extremely accurate, and when you add this together on a 160” screen with 4K and even 3D content… it makes for a VERY happy customer.

The first night of setting up the projector I had the HT2550 and TK800 side by side to calibrate and compare. I had a 4K HDR Blu Ray of Planet Earth II playing form my UHD Blu Ray player through an HDCP 2.2 HDMI splitter. I had similar Cinema Mode settings enabled with Brilliant Color set to ‘On’ on both projectors. The black point seemed darker on the TK800 to my untrained eye (sadly I don’t have a light meter to measure). I brought my wife into the theater and had 5 samples ready to show her. 5 times out of 5 she chose the TK800 image. The TK800 image was brighter, more punchy, and had more vivid and saturated colors. It ‘Wows’.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa…. Hold on a sec…. What about the HT2550’s color accuracy?”

Yep. Great point.  I did these tests in my 100% light controlled theater. When completely dark and I am watching UHD Blu Rays, I still personally prefer the 96% Rec Coverage of the HT2550 to the 92% Rec Coverage of the TK800. The color is more accurate and natural on the HT2550. A great comparison to think of the two projectors would be the display produced by an IPS LCD iPhone Display vs an AMOLED Display of a Samsung S8. The iPhone is more natural, but the Samsung sure is a heck of a lot punchier and vivid. Both great displays. Different strokes for different folks.

The first opportunity I had to really put it through its paces was watching the NBA Playoffs with a gathering of about 20 people coming in and out of the theater. We had the back half of the theater with lights on and even with a hefty amount of ambient lighting, the TK800 cut trough it all and still produced a great image on my 160” white 1.0 gain screen. This is a projector for sports enthusiasts, living rooms, backyard movies, and in my case a blend of all 3 in my theater.

The bottom line is this, for folks with dedicated theaters and close to 100% light control, and primarily watching movies, the HT2550 is going to get you an image as close to what the Director of those films intended. If you are someone who wants as bright and vivid image as possible, don’t have light control, or watch a lot of sports, the TK800 is a great choice too… AGAIN, even in a theater. It is a TON of fun and produces a bright image without a lot of tradeoffs regarding color. And if 3D is your thing, look no further. This is a great unit for 4k and 3D.

As of today, it exceeded expectations and has taken a primary spot in my 9.4.4 Atmos 4K Theater… especially during the Playoffs. I might switch back to the HT2550 after the Playoffs until football season. Both are great projectors.

I plan to put this through more paces including an outdoor move party so I’ll be back to post additional thoughts and pictures when I get the chance. I’m also finalizing the settings that I like the most, but for what it’s worth, I like the Gamma set to 2.4 instead of “BenQ” in Football and Sport modes. The “BenQ” Gamma setting hot spotted the whites a bit much with it’s S-Curve gamma… however that BenQ Gamma setting did create quite a bright and punchy image. Personal preference! I’ll be back with more when I finalize. Have fun!
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post #89 of 754 Old 04-24-2018, 07:38 PM
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Scotty thanks for the excellent and comical review! It makes me excited for the PX747 I have on order. I am in a living room scenario in which we usually have ambient light and then at night can control the lighting well. It is by no means a theater which is why I as well thought the extra lumens would provide more benefits than the more accurate color. I look forward to hearing more from you over the coming weeks about how its holding up.
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post #90 of 754 Old 04-24-2018, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
...
I sat in the first row of my theater and watched the Jazz take it to the Thunder. 160” screen at 11 feet with this bright and beautiful image was an awesome immersive watching experience
Thanks for your review... I also watched your review on YouTube (nice movie room!).

Just to confirm your screen was 160" with the projector at only 11 ft?

That seems to be a much shorter throw than the HT2550. According to one of the projection calculators, it states that the HT2550 would need almost 17' to get 160" image.

That would be good for me, so I hope it is true.
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