JVC LX-UH1 New 4K projector - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 673 Old 04-04-2018, 09:33 PM
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post #32 of 673 Old 04-04-2018, 09:44 PM
 
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I honestly don't understand why anyone would release a DLP projector without 3D, it's the best - and perhaps only - reason to buy one. (aside from price)

But, if anyone can show us what the 0.47 XPRs are truly capable of once the light path is optimised, it would be JVC. Or not. If I were them I'd put internal masking around the active area of the chip, and offer 1080p 120hz input so at least 3D is possible via PC-based IR transmitters.
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post #33 of 673 Old 04-04-2018, 10:13 PM
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"100% Rec. 709 color space (BT.2020 compatible)"

What about P3? Optoma claims 75-80% P3 in their UHD50 (a projector I wasn't impressed with at all), which is also a 0.47" DLP with RGBRGB color wheel.

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post #34 of 673 Old 04-04-2018, 10:28 PM
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Craig,

Did your demo unit show that JVC had developed a solution for the xpr noise and for the grey overscan that all the other $1499 .47s had a problem with.

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post #35 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I see. Thanks, Craig. ...okay, so DLP native contrast like the Runco LS-5 and better yet the Sim2 Lumis or DLP native contrast like the XPR chips of late? ...or, somewhere in between maybe?
If the 10x dynamic iris factor on current jvc d-ila projectors carries over, maybe...

100k dynamic
10k native
2k-4k measured based on zoom position (which would be very good for dlp, with 4k maybe being far to ambitious)
1k-2k probably more likely?

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post #36 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I played with one last week ( pre - production unit ). A lot more lens shift than the Optoma UHD60 I had - which is real nice. Quiet, bright, 4K HDR looked good ( watched some of " Rocky Mountain Express and Pacific Rim on 4K Blu-ray ). Looking forward to seeing an actual finished production unit.
How did it handle motion compared to other JVC units, without any enhancements on?

Thanks.
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post #37 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
If the 10x dynamic iris factor on current jvc d-ila projectors carries over, maybe...



100k dynamic

10k native

2k-4k measured based on zoom position (which would be very good for dlp, with 4k maybe being far to ambitious)

1k-2k probably more likely?


I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade here but...

The .47 XPR DMD is a budget solution with most projectors so far equipped with the chip measuring around 400:1 native. The better, higher contrast .66 XPR DMD has seen use in some mid/high projectors (UHD65) and really high end projectors (HT9050) and none have been able to top 1000:1 native. Lamp dimming and an iris can definitely make a difference here— the recently released HT2550 jumps to 1200:1 with lamp dimming engaged— but it’s important to have realistic expectations. I’m sure the engineers at JVC will be squeezing every last drop of performance out of this chip but this is very clearly a projector with a lower price aimed at a larger audience than their DILA models. There is a a war for 4K market share right now and JVC likely doesn’t want to miss out.

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post #38 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 06:41 AM
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So what would be the benefit of this projector, vs current JVC projectors, other than having the newest machine out. I really love my RS420, but not about to dump/trade/sell it for this?
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post #39 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
So what would be the benefit of this projector, vs current JVC projectors, other than having the newest machine out. I really love my RS420, but not about to dump/trade/sell it for this?


This projector isn’t for you.

My bet is this is an admission from JVC that hinging your business’s livelihood on high dollar, low volume product is a recipe for disaster (cough... OPPO... cough). There is buzz about 4K projectors right now and companies are scrambling to claim market share. This is JVC throwing their hat into the ring of a larger market than what their current product occupies.

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post #40 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 07:07 AM
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Thanks sage11x for clarification.
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post #41 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
This projector isn’t for you.

My bet is this is an admission from JVC that hinging your business’s livelihood on high dollar, low volume product is a recipe for disaster (cough... OPPO... cough). There is buzz about 4K projectors right now and companies are scrambling to claim market share. This is JVC throwing their hat into the ring of a larger market than what their current product occupies.
Agreed. Most likely a more serious 4K D-ILA will follow soon.
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post #42 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 07:16 AM
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Man, how much are the replacement bulbs gonna cost?
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post #43 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 07:23 AM
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Man, how much are the replacement bulbs gonna cost?

It's JVC so I would fully expect them to be considerably higher than the other budget offerings.

I'm really puzzled by JVC making this projector...
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post #44 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 08:15 AM
 
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Sage, the best 0.66 XPRs achieve 1900:1 native CR, from what I've seen so far on the french review site, which, by the way, isn't saying kind things about the sales prospects of this one.

But, what I'm really curious about is exactly which 0.47 DMD is used in the cheap 4K-compatible laser DLP which achieves 2300:1, calibrated! (2500:1 - 3000:1 uncalibrated)

https://www.projection-homecinema.fr...eur-laser-ust/

They don't use the shifting element so it's only basic 1080p, so I wonder if the shifter could really be the cause of the pathetic contrast in the BenQ 2550, as others have suggested, or maybe this Xiami is using an older, newer, or different 0.47 1080p DMD. So many questions here.

Perhaps the laser light source allows them to improve the native contrast? (a narrower laser light source being equivalent to using an iris on a lamp-based projector). If so, that bodes very well for the future of these projectors, and possibly improving the contrast on other types of projectors too. But we haven't seen that in higher priced JVCs and Sonys, have we. Their pricy laser models actually have worse contrast than their lamp ones.
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post #45 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 08:17 AM
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I have always wanted a JVC but Lamp life has always been the downside for projectors, IMO. How do you guys think this will compare against a laser light engine like the LG hu80ka plans on having? I know the LG predecessors have used cheap plastic lenses but I’m hoping that will not be the case for this guy. Thoughts?
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post #46 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 08:26 AM
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Hoping this is an intermediate step to a 4K DLP with good contrast and powered lens controls (with lens memory).
It seems that the makers are "trickling" out the features one at a time to capture the "bleeding edge" market.
My thought is that the big DLP players will take this as a "shot across the bow" and step up their game. Are you listening Benq?
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post #47 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 08:43 AM
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Need to confirm "newly developed 0.47″ DLP imager starts with 4 million pixels"". That's different than the current 0.47" that are 1920x1080 and thus allow 3D. Better? Who knows without hands on time. The 'shifting' would be reduced from 4 to 2 like the larger 'imagers'.

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post #48 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 08:58 AM
 
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I highly doubt they have a 0.47 inch 2716 x 1528 DMD. Occam's razor leads me to believe it's either a 0.66 chip doing 2X shifting or indeed a 0.47 inch 1080p (2 million pixel) unit doing 4 shifts, just like all the others that just came out.
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post #49 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 09:36 AM
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Indeed, I can't find anything on TI's site under DLP products about a 0.47" 2716x1528 DMD anywhere. I pulled the quote above from the story here on AVS and I'm curious where it came from. JVC & TI working in secret together? ;-)

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post #50 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
2k-4k measured based on zoom position (which would be very good for dlp, with 4k maybe being far to ambitious)
I had the Vivitek HK2299 and it was in that 2K native contrast range and had a beautiful, calm sharp picture with gorgeous colors, With its 310 watt lamp, HDR looked really spectacular. But that had the .7 XPR chip and this has the .47, which may mean four-way shifting, but maybe having the 3D back on the table. We'll see.
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post #51 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 10:46 AM
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For the premium price mentioned here you would expect power zoom and lens shift and lens memory for those who use 2.35 screens. Still, I hope they sell well to generate cash to fuel further DILA development.

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post #52 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 10:58 AM
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JVC LX-UH1 New 4K projector

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
Sage, the best 0.66 XPRs achieve 1900:1 native CR, from what I've seen so far on the french review site, which, by the way, isn't saying kind things about the sales prospects of this one.



But, what I'm really curious about is exactly which 0.47 DMD is used in the cheap 4K-compatible laser DLP which achieves 2300:1, calibrated! (2500:1 - 3000:1 uncalibrated)



https://www.projection-homecinema.fr...eur-laser-ust/



They don't use the shifting element so it's only basic 1080p, so I wonder if the shifter could really be the cause of the pathetic contrast in the BenQ 2550, as others have suggested, or maybe this Xiami is using an older, newer, or different 0.47 1080p DMD. So many questions here.



Perhaps the laser light source allows them to improve the native contrast? (a narrower laser light source being equivalent to using an iris on a lamp-based projector). If so, that bodes very well for the future of these projectors, and possibly improving the contrast on other types of projectors too. But we haven't seen that in higher priced JVCs and Sonys, have we. Their pricy laser models actually have worse contrast than their lamp ones.

HDTVtest previewed this model as well. The Xiaomi projector you’re referencing is a 1080p projector. It accepts a 4K input but then scales the image down to it’s native 1080p resolution. It is not an XPR/4K projector and it does not use the same DMD as the HT2550/UHd50/PX727-4K.

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Last edited by sage11x; 04-05-2018 at 11:11 AM.
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post #53 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Agreed. Most likely a more serious 4K D-ILA will follow soon.


JVC has one...

It’s $35,0000.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/

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post #54 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post
Indeed, I can't find anything on TI's site under DLP products about a 0.47" 2716x1528 DMD anywhere. I pulled the quote above from the story here on AVS and I'm curious where it came from. JVC & TI working in secret together? ;-)
The TI chip may be the one referenced in this article:
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...truments-chips

It is most likely a 1080p chip running a quadruple flash to achieve 4K resolution.

I have no idea how they can get anywhere near the brightness claimed with a chip running four pixels at a time while still looking decent.

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post #55 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:24 AM
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Here is the paragraph from Scott Wilkinson's write-up (maybe a copy and paste error):
The JVC LX-UH1 also uses pixel wiggling, which Texas Instruments—the developer of DLP technology—calls TRP (tilt-and-roll pixels). But the newly developed 0.47″ DLP imager STARTS with 4 million pixels, which is doubled to 8 million, making it closer to native UHD resolution than e-Shift. (Some argue it can’t be considered true UHD because only half the pixels are displayed at any given instant, and the alternating pixels overlap.)


Again, what everyone is saying seems more logical based on what is out now and coming out soon with 0.47" DMD's.
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post #56 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post
Here is the paragraph from Scott Wilkinson's write-up (maybe a copy and paste error):
The JVC LX-UH1 also uses pixel wiggling, which Texas Instruments—the developer of DLP technology—calls TRP (tilt-and-roll pixels). But the newly developed 0.47″ DLP imager STARTS with 4 million pixels, which is doubled to 8 million, making it closer to native UHD resolution than e-Shift. (Some argue it can’t be considered true UHD because only half the pixels are displayed at any given instant, and the alternating pixels overlap.)


Again, what everyone is saying seems more logical based on what is out now and coming out soon with 0.47" DMD's.
I agree. TI is quick to announce new products and the industry often takes years to implement them. The only mention and use of .47 4K was using the quad shifting 1080p chip. So, this is either the .66 chip at 4 megapixels, or it is the .47 1080p chip.

Geez, who really cares though? If the image is worlds better, then the reviews will cover that. If the projector is another UHD65, then the reviews will cover that as well.

Then we should still all go out and buy a JVC LCoS projector and suck up the $4,000 price of admittance for actual quality.

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post #57 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
The TI chip may be the one referenced in this article:
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...truments-chips

It is most likely a 1080p chip running a quadruple flash to achieve 4K resolution.

I have no idea how they can get anywhere near the brightness claimed with a chip running four pixels at a time while still looking decent.
Why would the lumens drop due to shifting?

Light is constantly pouring out the projector, it's just running at 4X the refresh rate as normal, with a tiny 1/2 pixel offset each time.

60hz RGBRGB DLPs operate at 4X effective colour wheel speed, which is 240hz, which is the same as these 4-shifting DLPs except there's a tiny offset each time instead of showing the same thing. There's no reason IMO for there to be any lumens drop and we haven't seen that in reviews either. The bulbs are basically the same as non-shifting 1080p variants.
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post #58 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:36 AM
 
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(maybe a copy and paste error)
Obviously. Even Optoma can't seem to get their 0.47 vs 0.66 chips right in their press releases.
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post #59 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:42 AM
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I'm hoping it [the image] is great too. I personally don't care either way but as Jack B asked earlier:




Craig,

Did your demo unit show that JVC had developed a solution for the xpr noise and for the grey overscan that all the other $1499 .47s had a problem with.


Jack




Solving those items would be great too if the DMD is 0.47".


I personally don't have any issues with the concept of XPR. My first experience with DLP was many years ago when Samsung introduced LED lighting to a rear-projection TV and it used some sort of early XPR to get 1080p which was a big to-do for some then as well.


I'm just trying to get the facts (presented by others, not me) straight.


I'm currently keeping track of a lot of projectors releasing this month and next.

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post #60 of 673 Old 04-05-2018, 11:55 AM
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Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
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I think the biggest thing JVC has going for it is that this is not their freshman year in 4K. They've been doing 4K for years and have been developing their projectors and technologies for years.

Their back end, prior to the chip, is perhaps the best in the business. True 18Gbs inputs, and true experience on processing and the like. Even after the chip with their lens choice, they know what they are doing.

This is something I think is pretty interesting to see coming, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it exciting. Perhaps more worrisome that JVC isn't going to deliver a eShift model for under $3K anytime soon and that they are throwing in the towel in that department.

Sony, getting long in the tooth on their 45ES may very well hammer in a 4K model under $3,000 in the next couple of years.
n84china and Bandyka like this.

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dlp , epson 5040ub , Jvc , jvc dlp , lx-uh1 , optoma uhd65 , uhd 4k

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