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post #31 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 04:49 AM
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For HD over cable, will the 5040 look better than the 3700 due to e-shift, or would the 3700 look better because it's panel matches the output of the cable box at 1080p?

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post #32 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cyberlocc View Post
A word of caution to those looking at the HW45ES, I have seen them, they are amazing a buddy has one and I went and seen it when considering it. He told me don't do it, in my case. Why I have light walls (he has a black theater) he knew I'd use whatever I chose alot, he said don't do that.

He has had to have his panels replaced 2x since buying it, from my looking in the HW45es threads this is not an uncommon problem. I personally wouldn't buy anything Sony until they fix the panel issues. The price is too high for it to die out of warranty. Not saying that you will have this problem or anyone will, just saying that it's pretty common from what I read. ...
Of course any projector can have issues and you can find owners of every projector model on the market who've had to have warranty work done for various issues. But I'm a Sony HW45ES owner who has closely followed all the HW45ES threads since this model was introduced, and by all accounts from owners on this forum there is not a common panel issue with this model. I was aware that there had been a panel issue with previous models and would not have bought an HW45ES if I thought the issue hadn't been resolved. Based on all the reports I've seen from other HW45ES owners it does not have a common panel issue.
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post #33 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Blue View Post
For HD over cable, will the 5040 look better than the 3700 due to e-shift, or would the 3700 look better because it's panel matches the output of the cable box at 1080p?
You know the analogy crap in crap out, I think even streaming has passed the PQ of most cable providers. That being said if you sit too close to be able to see the screen door effect of LCD panels then the 5040's e-shift will blur that out.
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post #34 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
You know the analogy crap in crap out, I think even streaming has passed the PQ of most cable providers. That being said if you sit too close to be able to see the screen door effect of LCD panels then the 5040's e-shift will blur that out.
Absolutely correct on crap in and crap out. It is so bad now I have to sometimes pull up the channel info to see if I am on a SD channel instead of a HD. While streaming is hit or miss, it generally far surpasses cable.

...but, I would think the e-shift would add even more distortions to a crappy cable signal. For example, on my Epson 3700 and even my 70" TV when we converted over to the "new" Comcast cable boxes the display was set to a 720p output. Thinking this was just a mistake I changed all four boxes to 1080p and found it was unwatchable from the 40" to the 151.5" projector image. To many odd distortions in the image and if anything, it was less sharp. Every couple of months, I attempt to up the signal to 1080p just to see if the cable company has improved the signal with no luck. At least SD is more watchable now thanks to our eyes adjusting from great 1080p to something south of 720p.

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post #35 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I've attached a photo of the space, it's just been drywalled (ignore the drums and treadmill). The wall on the left will be for the screen. I'll be able to black out the windows, and I've discussed with my wife and she is ok with having retractable black curtains extend out from the edge of the wall with windows. The other side is open for another 15+ feet so I don't think any curtains will be necessary in the middle of the room.

We bought this embassy drop ceiling which will prove a challenge I think. My wife will not accept any permanent darkening of the ceiling. I don't know whether there are any easy retractable black ceiling curtains, etc that could be attached to extend out a ways, like 5-6 feet? It would have to be a clean system for it to be acceptable.

Anyway, let me know whether you think this changes the math on the JVC!



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post #36 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Of course any projector can have issues and you can find owners of every projector model on the market who've had to have warranty work done for various issues. But I'm a Sony HW45ES owner who has closely followed all the HW45ES threads since this model was introduced, and by all accounts from owners on this forum there is not a common panel issue with this model. I was aware that there had been a panel issue with previous models and would not have bought an HW45ES if I thought the issue hadn't been resolved. Based on all the reports I've seen from other HW45ES owners it does not have a common panel issue.
Dave, this isn't fair. While there is not enough information to definitively say that the 45ES will succumb to the same SXRD panel degradation that prior Sony models have it is definitely a concern as this has been an issue impacting their models for years. While this certainly hasn't been an issue for every owner it has effected plenty of people.
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It impacted my decision to buy one. Not that anyone shouldn't consider one-- I still think it's a fantastic projector but the warning is fair considering the history.
I bought and owned three Panasonic plasmas and the first suffered significant black level rise-- it didn't stop me from buying two more but I did so with eyes wide open to the possibility that it could occur. I think the concern voiced is a reasonable one.

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post #37 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Dave, this isn't fair. ...
What I said is a totally fair opinion shared by many others. The fact that you and others may have a different opinion is equally fair. We all have access to the same data and are free to come to our own conclusions. I was merely presenting the opposite side of what someone else posted. What's unfair is to present only one side without counterpoint.
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post #38 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BeMurda View Post
Anyway, let me know whether you think this changes the math on the JVC!
Of course the JVC will look better in any room. What you need to decide if its worth 5x the price better. The only reason I would question the purchase of a JVC over the initial cost is the absurd cost of replacement lamps and their reported early dimming for short lamp life.
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post #39 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
What I said is a totally fair opinion shared by many others. The fact that you and others may have a different opinion is equally fair. We all have access to the same data and are free to come to our own conclusions. I was merely presenting the opposite side of what someone else posted. What's unfair is to present only one side without counterpoint.
Yeah... except this isn't really a case of opinions. The evidence of SXRD panel degradation is pretty widespread. Obviously this isn't going to effect ALL MODELS but I think it's fair to acknowledge it as a possibility. The 45ES hasn't even been out 2 years-- some owners have claimed they've experienced issues but it seems too early to make a clear determination either way. But that doesn't at all mean it's fixed considering some owners of Sony projectors are experiencing problems 3/4/5 years in.
My friend recently bought a Ford Focus hatch (used) as his daily. He loves it and it fits more groceries than his SS. Just because he has had trouble free ownership doesn't mean thousands of other focus owners haven't had issues with the powershift transmission. It's something you should go into knowing that Focus' have problematic transmissions. Sony has problematic SXRD panels.


Anyway. Don't want to derail this thread any longer I just felt your post was a little dismissive of the issue. If I misread that I apologize.

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post #40 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
Of course the JVC will look better in any room. What you need to decide if its worth 5x the price better. The only reason I would question the purchase of a JVC over the initial cost is the absurd cost of replacement lamps and their reported early dimming for short lamp life.
Yes, this was the point I was trying to make.


Clearly a JVC is better than a sub $1k 3LCD/DLP. But in a living room setting the performance advantages of the JVC are going to be minimized and, unfortunately, JVC doesn't give discounts for using their projectors in less than fully optimized rooms.
In addition, while JVC projectors are far from dim I wouldn't call them overly bright. From looking at pictures of that room the OP is really going to want a projector with some flexibility (lumen wise).

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post #41 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 12:39 PM
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My wife will not accept any permanent darkening of the ceiling. I don't know whether there are any easy retractable black ceiling curtains, etc that could be attached to extend out a ways, like 5-6 feet? It would have to be a clean system for it to be acceptable.
Make your own.
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post #42 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
Of course the JVC will look better in any room. What you need to decide if its worth 5x the price better. The only reason I would question the purchase of a JVC over the initial cost is the absurd cost of replacement lamps and their reported early dimming for short lamp life.
The problem with JVC is the lamp replacement costs, no doubt. As far as early dimming, JVC has re-engineered the lamps and ballasts many many times now. There are no reports of early dimming since the JVC Rs-45 (5 years ago). All subsequent JVC's have good lamps, as a matter of fact, the latest series (4xx/5xx/6xx) may just have the best UHP lamps in the entire projector industry.

Even though it is now true that the JVC lamps are of an extremely high quality, you pay for it. The going price for lamps if $400 to $550 generally speaking. This is why I haven't upgraded my JVC.

If you are willing to call a lot of JVC dealers, you can sometimes find closeouts or floor-models and also get them to include extra lamps for a nominal fee.
The JVC RS-400's were blown out at only $1,500 at one point. Though I don't expect this price to ever recur, I would expect there are plenty of deals to be had in the $2k to $2.5k range for a JVC.

Not sure about where you live, but I'm speaking in terms of across the entire US. Even a new JVC Rs-4xx series generally goes for under $3k.

As far as Epson LCD vs. DLP, I would go with a DLP personally.

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post #43 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
Of course the JVC will look better in any room. What you need to decide if its worth 5x the price better. The only reason I would question the purchase of a JVC over the initial cost is the absurd cost of replacement lamps and their reported early dimming for short lamp life.
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Yes, this was the point I was trying to make.


Clearly a JVC is better than a sub $1k 3LCD/DLP. But in a living room setting the performance advantages of the JVC are going to be minimized and, unfortunately, JVC doesn't give discounts for using their projectors in less than fully optimized rooms.
In addition, while JVC projectors are far from dim I wouldn't call them overly bright. From looking at pictures of that room the OP is really going to want a projector with some flexibility (lumen wise).
Ok, so I went to a couple stores today and saw some projectors in action. Here are my thoughts:

UHD65: This has really great sharpness but the contrast seemed not very good to me, and blacks were grey. I think I would care a lot less for most 16:9 content which is a lot of Netflix etc, but for some reason the black bars on wide format bother me. This was in a dark room but with mid to light painted walls.

JVC 900 (I can't recall, it was a 3 or 4 year old unit): The blacks were pure black. During a fadeout the screen disappeared. The colors didn't really pop in the image, but it might have been on an older bulb, also the new ones are brighter right? I definitely got the sense of three dimensionality and a truly cinematic look that people talk about. However, I also felt the black crush was very noticeable, people's dark hair was merging with background shadows for example. Not sure whether this can be fixed with some gamma correction. This room had dark walls. Would the new JVCs have enough brightness to watch hockey with some ambient light? This older one seemed on the verge.

At a different store I saw the Epson 3700, Epson 2150 and Epson 5040UB. This was A/B-ed in a room where light was mostly but not entirely controlled. Lights were off but curtains only provided 90% coverage of the back wall which was open to the lit store.

3700: Wasn't really considering it, the colors looked like they had been messed with as they were supersaturated, I actually preferred the 2150 but it was probably just a settings thing.

2150: The image didn't pop as much as the other two but looked pretty natural. Black levels looked pretty much the same as the UHD65.

5040UB: The blacks were better but nowhere near JVC still (but the room wasn't perfectly light controlled so hard to compare directly), the image had a ton of pop in the colors, etc which seemed to be an Epson thing. Contrast was obviously better than the 2150. One thing I also noticed was the big difference in resolution between the E-shift and the 1080p from a similar distance to where I will sit at home. This was surprising to me but I have very good vision. The increased sharpness of e-shift was much better.

After all of it, since they were in different rooms I still can't really make any firm conclusions. I do think the Epson would probably be better for sports viewing. JVC would be amazing for everything but I didn't get to test the new model at all.

The sale on the Epson 2100 ends today! Hmm.

I also realized I can get a x590r for $350 more than the 420u on a special deal, not sure whether that is worth it. E-shift 5, better HDR, etc.

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Make your own.
This looks great, I guess I just would need to figure out a way to mount one rod into the room though, as the drop ceiling won't carry that much weight. Perhaps a small hole somewhere to fasten it to the joist... Hmm.
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post #44 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 01:43 PM
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@sage11x , I think you are missing the main point of my post and reading something into it that wasn't there. I simply disagreed with the statement that panel issues with the HW45ES are "not an uncommon problem." If you or anyone else want to try to prove that it is not an uncommon problem then go ask HW45ES owners in the HW45ES owners thread how common it is among them. No need to further discuss here.
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post #45 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@sage11x, I think you are missing the main point of my post and reading something into it that wasn't there. I simply disagreed with the statement that panel issues with the HW45ES are "not an uncommon problem." If you or anyone else want to try to prove that it is not an uncommon problem then go ask HW45ES owners in the HW45ES owners thread how common it is among them. No need to further discuss here.

No, you're right. I wouldn't personally call it a common issue but it certainly is a well chronicled issue. Although, I guess it depends on your definition of common. I suppose if you owned a Sony with the issue it seems a lot more 'common' whereas if you haven't had any issues it seems a lot less 'common'.


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Originally Posted by BeMurda View Post
Ok, so I went to a couple stores today and saw some projectors in action. Here are my thoughts:

UHD65: This has really great sharpness but the contrast seemed not very good to me, and blacks were grey. I think I would care a lot less for most 16:9 content which is a lot of Netflix etc, but for some reason the black bars on wide format bother me. This was in a dark room but with mid to light painted walls.

JVC 900 (I can't recall, it was a 3 or 4 year old unit): The blacks were pure black. During a fadeout the screen disappeared. The colors didn't really pop in the image, but it might have been on an older bulb, also the new ones are brighter right? I definitely got the sense of three dimensionality and a truly cinematic look that people talk about. However, I also felt the black crush was very noticeable, people's dark hair was merging with background shadows for example. Not sure whether this can be fixed with some gamma correction. This room had dark walls. Would the new JVCs have enough brightness to watch hockey with some ambient light? This older one seemed on the verge.

At a different store I saw the Epson 3700, Epson 2150 and Epson 5040UB. This was A/B-ed in a room where light was mostly but not entirely controlled. Lights were off but curtains only provided 90% coverage of the back wall which was open to the lit store.

3700: Wasn't really considering it, the colors looked like they had been messed with as they were supersaturated, I actually preferred the 2150 but it was probably just a settings thing.

2150: The image didn't pop as much as the other two but looked pretty natural. Black levels looked pretty much the same as the UHD65.

5040UB: The blacks were better but nowhere near JVC still (but the room wasn't perfectly light controlled so hard to compare directly), the image had a ton of pop in the colors, etc which seemed to be an Epson thing. Contrast was obviously better than the 2150. One thing I also noticed was the big difference in resolution between the E-shift and the 1080p from a similar distance to where I will sit at home. This was surprising to me but I have very good vision. The increased sharpness of e-shift was much better.

After all of it, since they were in different rooms I still can't really make any firm conclusions. I do think the Epson would probably be better for sports viewing. JVC would be amazing for everything but I didn't get to test the new model at all.

The sale on the Epson 2100 ends today! Hmm.

I also realized I can get a x590r for $350 more than the 420u on a special deal, not sure whether that is worth it. E-shift 5, better HDR, etc.



This looks great, I guess I just would need to figure out a way to mount one rod into the room though, as the drop ceiling won't carry that much weight. Perhaps a small hole somewhere to fasten it to the joist... Hmm.
The UD65 and Epson 2150 might have seemed to have similar blacks because Epson has spent years developing an excellent auto iris that really does do wonders for making blacks appear blacker. I assure you, though, that on most scenes where there is a variety of light and dark content the UHD65 will look much better. It still won't be able to compete with a JVC ( or a Sony or UB Epson for that matter ) but it will trounce a sub $1k 3LCD.


So why do I feel like you're farther from making a decision than you were before?

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post #46 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BeMurda View Post
Ok, so I went to a couple stores today and saw some projectors in action. Here are my thoughts:

JVC 900 (I can't recall, it was a 3 or 4 year old unit): The blacks were pure black. During a fadeout the screen disappeared. The colors didn't really pop in the image, but it might have been on an older bulb, also the new ones are brighter right? I definitely got the sense of three dimensionality and a truly cinematic look that people talk about. However, I also felt the black crush was very noticeable, people's dark hair was merging with background shadows for example. Not sure whether this can be fixed with some gamma correction. This room had dark walls. Would the new JVCs have enough brightness to watch hockey with some ambient light? This older one seemed on the verge.

This looks great, I guess I just would need to figure out a way to mount one rod into the room though, as the drop ceiling won't carry that much weight. Perhaps a small hole somewhere to fasten it to the joist... Hmm.
It's really not as helpful as people think it is to see the projectors in person for someone that is new to projectors.
The only benefit of viewing the projectors in stores or showrooms is seeing the difference between DLP - LCOS - LCD as far as pixel fill goes.
The other differences are mostly going to be 'fake' and unrealized due to issues with the room and calibration.

I would narrow it down to Epson 4000 vs. 5040 vs Sony hw45es vs. JVC RS-4xx series.
Those should be the 4 to look at, forget the low-end DLP's and LCD's since it sounds like you are going to be bothered by the black levels.

As far as pop in the image, there is literally an almost ZERO difference between projectors in bright scenes unless you are talking about LCD vs. DLP and LCOS.
Almost all DLP and LCOS projectors will look similar (almost identical) in bright scenes unless you sit ridiculously close to the screen or unless you are speaking of a 4k DLP projector.
The difference you saw at the store was calibration related and brightness. The JVC can look just as saturated as the Epson, all depends on calibration.

Black crush is not a concern as it is also related to calibration. The JVC's have such better black levels that they will exhibit what can seem like black crush, but you can just raise the gamma at the dark-end to compensate if it bothers you. You can make the gamma look similar or the same as just about any other projector.

Almost no-one (less than 5%) of projector enthusiasts would choose the Epson 5040 over any JVC for any reason other than price or if you need the extra brightness.
There are a few that like the Epson's extra brightness, but other than that, the JVC is more reliable and it has way better contrast.
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post #47 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 02:33 PM
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Also, as far as asking about ambient light with hockey, no-one can answer that question.
It depends on your screen size, personal preferences, and more importantly - exactly how much ambient light.

What I can tell you is that if you are concerned about having decent black levels and a torch mode for ambient light, then your decision is already made.

Get the Epson 5040ub, it is the best for that. It will do much better watching hockey in ambient light than any JVC can.
Especially given the pricing of the JVC lamps and you will not want to replace them as often as the Epson lamps due to cost.

It really sounds like the right projector for you is the Epson 5040ub...

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post #48 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BeMurda View Post
JVC 900 (I can't recall, it was a 3 or 4 year old unit): The blacks were pure black. During a fadeout the screen disappeared. The colors didn't really pop in the image, but it might have been on an older bulb, also the new ones are brighter right? I definitely got the sense of three dimensionality and a truly cinematic look that people talk about. However, I also felt the black crush was very noticeable, people's dark hair was merging with background shadows for example. Not sure whether this can be fixed with some gamma correction. This room had dark walls. Would the new JVCs have enough brightness to watch hockey with some ambient light? This older one seemed on the verge.



I also realized I can get a x590r for $350 more than the 420u on a special deal, not sure whether that is worth it. E-shift 5, better HDR, etc.
Just to let you know there are just a few differences in all of the JVC projectors you are considering:

JVC RS400/x550r - which is probably the projector that you saw (there is no JVC 900 but rather the RS400, RS500 and RS600). This is a 2015 model with E-shift 4 and the first year they supported HDR. It is a bright projector and very capable for HDR when properly calibrated and using a custom gamma curve. These shipped with a broken gamma curve for HDR (gamma D) that is basically unusable out of the box. When properly calibrated with a custom curve results can be very very good. I have this same projector via JVC's other line called the JVC x550r

JVC RS420/x570r - This has the same light engine, lens and chassis as the 2015 model but had a low lag mode for gaming and a functional gamma curve for HDR added.

JVC RS440/x590r - This is the same projector with hybrid log gamma HDR format compatibility, improved frame interpolation, improved low latency mode and the ability to use the dynamic iris on 4k content

For SDR 1080p viewing they are equally capable. When using a custom calibration and custom gamma curve the RS400 can look just as good as the RS440 (there is some debate just how much better e-shift 5 is over e-shift 4). When the RS400 came out there was not even any HDR content available and as HDR has become more prevalent JVC has improved their factory settings to handle it better with each new model but if you are able to use custom settings you can get the same performance from the older models.

The JVC in my 10X15 blacked out room that is 90% light controlled looks great for sports with some indirect lighting on. The projector is bright enough in low lamp mode that I sometimes have to squint during certain scenes when watching films. The bulb expense is real, especially compared to the Epson's but I anticipate being able to get at least 3000 hours out of my first bulb. I am at 1800 hours now and the bulb is plenty bright as I don't need to use high lamp mode for anything yet including HDR. One other criticism of the JVC's that I have not seen mentioned is that they can be frustratingly slow to change resolution during setting changes resulting in 5-10 seconds of black screens. You do get used to it but it can be annoying at times. With that said, the depth and richness of the image from the JVC is simply addicting to me.
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post #49 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 04:24 PM
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The JVC x900 is the JVC RS-67.

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post #50 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 04:52 PM
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I just demo'd the VPL-HW45ES in Magnolia today, and I even plugged in my Xbox One X and did some BD movie viewing and then switched over to gaming with Forza 7 among other new titles. WOW.

I was very impressed with the contrast and "out of the box" settings that are provided outside of usermode.

I placed my order and it should be arriving in the next few days. Did a fair amount of back and forth with the guy, and walked out with good price, and have 45 days to price match if it drops again.
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post #51 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeMurda View Post
Ok, so I went to a couple stores today and saw some projectors in action. Here are my thoughts:

JVC 900 (I can't recall, it was a 3 or 4 year old unit): The blacks were pure black. During a fadeout the screen disappeared. The colors didn't really pop in the image, but it might have been on an older bulb, also the new ones are brighter right? I definitely got the sense of three dimensionality and a truly cinematic look that people talk about. However, I also felt the black crush was very noticeable, people's dark hair was merging with background shadows for example. Not sure whether this can be fixed with some gamma correction. This room had dark walls. Would the new JVCs have enough brightness to watch hockey with some ambient light? This older one seemed on the verge.

This looks great, I guess I just would need to figure out a way to mount one rod into the room though, as the drop ceiling won't carry that much weight. Perhaps a small hole somewhere to fasten it to the joist... Hmm.
It's really not as helpful as people think it is to see the projectors in person for someone that is new to projectors.
The only benefit of viewing the projectors in stores or showrooms is seeing the difference between DLP - LCOS - LCD as far as pixel fill goes.
The other differences are mostly going to be 'fake' and unrealized due to issues with the room and calibration.

I would narrow it down to Epson 4000 vs. 5040 vs Sony hw45es vs. JVC RS-4xx series.
Those should be the 4 to look at, forget the low-end DLP's and LCD's since it sounds like you are going to be bothered by the black levels.

As far as pop in the image, there is literally an almost ZERO difference between projectors in bright scenes unless you are talking about LCD vs. DLP and LCOS.
Almost all DLP and LCOS projectors will look similar (almost identical) in bright scenes unless you sit ridiculously close to the screen or unless you are speaking of a 4k DLP projector.
The difference you saw at the store was calibration related and brightness. The JVC can look just as saturated as the Epson, all depends on calibration.

Black crush is not a concern as it is also related to calibration. The JVC's have such better black levels that they will exhibit what can seem like black crush, but you can just raise the gamma at the dark-end to compensate if it bothers you. You can make the gamma look similar or the same as just about any other projector.

Almost no-one (less than 5%) of projector enthusiasts would choose the Epson 5040 over any JVC for any reason other than price or if you need the extra brightness.
There are a few that like the Epson's extra brightness, but other than that, the JVC is more reliable and it has way better contrast.
Well unless he really wants Eshift, he might as well drop the 4000 as well.

It uses the same panels as the 3700/3900, all 3 use a new Epson panel that is exclusive to those 3 and this year (well last year).

All he's really getting with a 4000 is Faux 4k (and HDR, but it's also Faux HDR)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger View Post
I just demo'd the VPL-HW45ES in Magnolia today, and I even plugged in my Xbox One X and did some BD movie viewing and then switched over to gaming with Forza 7 among other new titles. WOW.

I was very impressed with the contrast and "out of the box" settings that are provided outside of usermode.

I placed my order and it should be arriving in the next few days. Did a fair amount of back and forth with the guy, and walked out with good price, and have 45 days to price match if it drops again.
A word of caution to that tale. Buy Best Buy's warranty. Sony has a bad habit of refusing warranty if you pay a dollar less than MSRP. They require a receipt stating MSRP for all warranty coverage.

Bunch of negative posts about that here on AVS.

Not saying it happens every time. I'm just saying it has happened quite a times before. Sony doesn't allow dealers to sell anything under MSRP. If they did, they are violating Sony's terms and your warranty could be forfeit.

(This may also on apply to Sony Extended warranties as pretty much everyone I seen with a issue had the paid Sony warranty)

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post #52 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeMurda View Post
Ok, so I went to a couple stores today and saw some projectors in action. Here are my thoughts:
I'm also in Canada (Edmonton) trying to make similair decisions as you for a first time basement projector. What stores did you check out? Were any big box stores willing to do demos?
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post #53 of 68 Old 04-11-2018, 06:13 PM
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... A word of caution to that tale. Buy Best Buy's warranty. Sony has a bad habit of refusing warranty if you pay a dollar less than MSRP. They require a receipt stating MSRP for all warranty coverage.

Bunch of negative posts about that here on AVS.
Wrong. You do not have to produce a receipt stating MSRP to get Sony warranty coverage. Sony keeps a computerized record of all projector serial numbers they import into the U.S. When you buy a Sony projector you register it on the Sony website with model number, serial number, purchase date and place of purchase. If the serial number matches the list of Sony-imported units you get full Sony warranty coverage. If the serial number isn't on Sony's list you aren't eligible for a Sony warranty because you bought a gray market projector that wasn't imported into the U.S. by Sony.
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post #54 of 68 Old 04-12-2018, 07:12 AM
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... I suppose if you owned a Sony with the issue it seems a lot more 'common' whereas if you haven't had any issues it seems a lot less 'common'. ...
This is a really good point that I often try to make in different threads on this forum. You can't just rely on the advice of a few vocal people whose opinions may be skewed by whether or not they've experienced issues with a certain projector brand or model. When considering a specific projector model it's always best to consider the overall body of knowledge of many users and put appropriate weight on more recent experience with the latest models.

For example, there are still people who post on this forum that they would never buy a BenQ projector because of the issues BenQ had a few years ago even though more recent BenQ models have had fewer issues. I often recommend current BenQ models based on reading all the user experiences on this and other AV forums that reflect fewer issues than with previous models.
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post #55 of 68 Old 04-12-2018, 10:38 AM
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The Sony hw45es has 7% 1-star reviews on Amazon, the Epson 5040ub has 11%. Both are fairly normal and do not appear to indicate high failure rates.
That said, the Sony panel issue is hard to detect for a layman, it has to be measured.

I personally wouldn't buy Epson or Sony really based on their track record, but it doesn't mean other people shouldn't.
JVC is king in not only contrast but also in reliability.

I never had any issues with any Benq projectors except their lamps, several of the Philips lamps I've had sometimes dim prematurely or just fail early (both on Benq and JVC projectors).
Only some Benqs use Philips lamps, JVC quit using them a long time ago.

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Last edited by coderguy; 04-12-2018 at 10:42 AM.
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post #56 of 68 Old 04-12-2018, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Wrong. You do not have to produce a receipt stating MSRP to get Sony warranty coverage. Sony keeps a computerized record of all projector serial numbers they import into the U.S. When you buy a Sony projector you register it on the Sony website with model number, serial number, purchase date and place of purchase. If the serial number matches the list of Sony-imported units you get full Sony warranty coverage. If the serial number isn't on Sony's list you aren't eligible for a Sony warranty because you bought a gray market projector that wasn't imported into the U.S. by Sony.
Okay, well like I said just read that.

I have never warrantied a Sony PJ, however in both the HW40 and HW45es, owner threads there is people stating what I am saying.

Also I have had a Sony Receiver that I did have to warranty, And they 110% required a receipt. Furthermore,

"Have this Service Contract, Service Contract number listed on the front of this Service Contract, model number and serial number of Your Product, and the original Product receipt available."

Says differently, that is from Sonys Esupport. Sony does not have Transferable Warranty's, and are the strictest IME with warranty, so thinking you are getting coverage without a receipt, that my friend is a fairy tale.

Like I said originally, I dont know if there is truth to the Not paying full price thing or not. I have not experienced it, just read that here. However, stating they dont require a receipt I know for a fact that is false. Sony doesn't even warranty at all unless you buy from an Authorized dealer with a receipt to Prove IT. The serial is irrelevant, things can start at a Authorized dealer and end up in the hands of someone else, and sold again. Those will not be Warrantied.


Now I do see you are on about registering it, ya they dont require a receipt for that. However if and when it comes time to warranty it, you best have a receipt.


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The Sony hw45es has 7% 1-star reviews on Amazon, the Epson 5040ub has 11%. Both are fairly normal and do not appear to indicate high failure rates.
That said, the Sony panel issue is hard to detect for a layman, it has to be measured.

Thats not really fair way to judge things.

For one, those with the slightest issue will have the loudest mouth. There is also very few reviews. Then you have to look at what is actually being said.

Sony -
1. Processor went bad after 90 days. Not even sure what they mean by that lol, they could have been more descriptive. Anyway so 1 failure.

2. Problem with Lamp life, a problem that by the reviewers own accord are well documented. He also seems to think a Lamp is actually going to last 6000 hours, We all know that isnt true.

3. DOA, Happens to everyone.

4. Broken Fan I assume? Again par for the course.

The Epson has too many to list lol. However if looking through the same pattern will likely emerge. Everyone has failures.

For fun I checked my 3700 reviews, 3 1 stars. 1. is that the fan is loud, (ya maybe on high with HA mode on) 2. has nothing to do with the 3700 and is a complaint about Epson warranty centers, 3. Is showing a problem with overheating, dude probably lives at 10k feet and doesn't have HA mode on lol, who knows.

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post #57 of 68 Old 04-12-2018, 09:26 PM
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It doesn't matter why some rate the thing at 1-star, you can get a feel for failure rates on Amazon generally speaking because with enough reviews it filters itself out.
There are exceptions where a product just annoys people for some reason and gets a lot of 1-star reviews regardless, but that is definitely an exception.

It doesn't work perfectly, but the % to watch out for is 15% to 20%+ or higher generally speaking. It's not something I need to understand, been using it for years.
When you see a product with 20%+ bad 1-star reviews, it's a major warning sign most of the time.

The bigger problem is the # of fake reviews on Amazon, just saw a pair of headphones with (191) 5-star reviews made by a Chinese no-name brand.
There were 0 reviews less than 5 stars. You believe that, yah right...

Sony isn't going to Deny you based on what price you paid, it's based on where you bought it from and if they are an authorized reseller.
There might be some support guys at Sony that try that tactic to reduce the # of returns to make themselves look better at their job (but I doubt it's their corp policy).

If it is the policy, it would have to be VERY VERY clearly stated and warn you, otherwise you can charge it back on whichever 'authorized reseller' you bought it from.
Unlikely most CC companies are going to leave Sony alone for that, they'll likely give Sony an ultimatum, create the RMA or you'll get a chargeback.
Amex would give them hell for it since Amex themselves could be legally obligated to cover the warranty if they fail to.

Now if you buy it from an unauthorized reseller, that's a completely different story entirely.

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post #58 of 68 Old 04-12-2018, 10:01 PM
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you guys need to chill out a substantial amount. Relax and enjoy great PQ with whatever you currently have,plan on purchasing.
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post #59 of 68 Old 04-15-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue View Post
For HD over cable, will the 5040 look better than the 3700 due to e-shift, or would the 3700 look better because it's panel matches the output of the cable box at 1080p?
The Epson 5040 will look way better due to better optics and much higher contrast. The e-shift will make it appear to have twice the pixel count. So yes, a huge improvement.
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post #60 of 68 Old 04-15-2018, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberlocc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Wrong. You do not have to produce a receipt stating MSRP to get Sony warranty coverage. Sony keeps a computerized record of all projector serial numbers they import into the U.S. When you buy a Sony projector you register it on the Sony website with model number, serial number, purchase date and place of purchase. If the serial number matches the list of Sony-imported units you get full Sony warranty coverage. If the serial number isn't on Sony's list you aren't eligible for a Sony warranty because you bought a gray market projector that wasn't imported into the U.S. by Sony.
Okay, well like I said just read that.

I have never warrantied a Sony PJ, however in both the HW40 and HW45es, owner threads there is people stating what I am saying.

Also I have had a Sony Receiver that I did have to warranty, And they 110% required a receipt. Furthermore,

"Have this Service Contract, Service Contract number listed on the front of this Service Contract, model number and serial number of Your Product, and the original Product receipt available."

Says differently, that is from Sonys Esupport. Sony does not have Transferable Warranty's, and are the strictest IME with warranty, so thinking you are getting coverage without a receipt, that my friend is a fairy tale.

Like I said originally, I dont know if there is truth to the Not paying full price thing or not. I have not experienced it, just read that here. However, stating they dont require a receipt I know for a fact that is false. Sony doesn't even warranty at all unless you buy from an Authorized dealer with a receipt to Prove IT. The serial is irrelevant, things can start at a Authorized dealer and end up in the hands of someone else, and sold again. Those will not be Warrantied.


Now I do see you are on about registering it, ya they dont require a receipt for that. However if and when it comes time to warranty it, you best have a receipt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
The Sony hw45es has 7% 1-star reviews on Amazon, the Epson 5040ub has 11%. Both are fairly normal and do not appear to indicate high failure rates.
That said, the Sony panel issue is hard to detect for a layman, it has to be measured.

Thats not really fair way to judge things.

For one, those with the slightest issue will have the loudest mouth. There is also very few reviews. Then you have to look at what is actually being said.

Sony -
1. Processor went bad after 90 days. Not even sure what they mean by that lol, they could have been more descriptive. Anyway so 1 failure.

2. Problem with Lamp life, a problem that by the reviewers own accord are well documented. He also seems to think a Lamp is actually going to last 6000 hours, We all know that isnt true.

3. DOA, Happens to everyone.

4. Broken Fan I assume? Again par for the course.

The Epson has too many to list lol. However if looking through the same pattern will likely emerge. Everyone has failures.

For fun I checked my 3700 reviews, 3 1 stars. 1. is that the fan is loud, (ya maybe on high with HA mode on) 2. has nothing to do with the 3700 and is a complaint about Epson warranty centers, 3. Is showing a problem with overheating, dude probably lives at 10k feet and doesn't have HA mode on lol, who knows.
This is yet another reason I prefer Epson over Sony, their support and warranty is far superior.
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