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post #331 of 866 Old 02-23-2019, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
Sony HW45ES has higher native contrast than the Epson 5040. The Sony has better black levels than the Epson 5040 when the Epson's iris is not enabled. An iris to me will always be a Band-Aid and I can see them at work each and every time they're in use.
Maybe, but it's 1080p compared to eshift 4k and significantly dimmer. The cheapest 4k sony is 5k, although it is native 4k vs eshift so a definite advantage there. Still, if I were looking in that price range the JVC x790 seems like a much better option.
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post #332 of 866 Old 02-23-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
Sony HW45ES has higher native contrast than the Epson 5040. The Sony has better black levels than the Epson 5040 when the Epson's iris is not enabled. An iris to me will always be a Band-Aid and I can see them at work each and every time they're in use.
I own both the Sony HW45es and the new Epson EH-TW9400, the first thing I noticed when I switched over was the black levels, I agree the Sony is very good if not quite JVC levels but this latest Epson is somewhere in between that of the Sony and the JVC Dila-x.

Another thing a few UK owners who travelled up to IdealAV to buy their Epson got a chance to compare side by side against JVC’s new N5 Native 4K projector, each have commented how close the Epson was to the JVC and at some things it was actually better. The surprise was each found the difference in contrast to be slight yet the JVC has a native contrast of 40000:1, so maybe this latest Epson has upped its game over the out going model or that 7000:1 was a poor example.

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Last edited by Luminated67; 02-23-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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post #333 of 866 Old 02-23-2019, 09:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I own both the Sony HW45es and the new Epson EH-TW9400, the first thing I noticed when I switched over was the black levels, I agree the Sony is very good if not quite JVC levels but this latest Epson is somewhere in between that of the Sony and the JVC Dila-x.

Another thing a few UK owners who travelled up to IdealAV to buy their Epson got a chance to compare side by side against JVC’s new N5 Native 4K projector, each have commented how close the Epson was to the JVC and at some things it was actually better. The surprise was each found the difference in contrast to be slight yet the JVC has a native contrast of 40000:1, so maybe this latest Epson has upped its game over the out going model out that 7000:1 was a poor example.
Well that is good news to hear. I only use ambient light rejecting screens so I was waiting for Epson to come out with a 5 series model with a bit better contrast and a slight bump in lumens. If the Epson 5050 checks both of those boxes, I will be a happy camper. I've been without a projector for over 6 months waiting on it's release.

Last edited by RadiantHT; 02-23-2019 at 10:26 AM.
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post #334 of 866 Old 02-23-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I own both the Sony HW45es and the new Epson EH-TW9400, the first thing I noticed when I switched over was the black levels, I agree the Sony is very good if not quite JVC levels but this latest Epson is somewhere in between that of the Sony and the JVC Dila-x.

Another thing a few UK owners who travelled up to IdealAV to buy their Epson got a chance to compare side by side against JVC’s new N5 Native 4K projector, each have commented how close the Epson was to the JVC and at some things it was actually better. The surprise was each found the difference in contrast to be slight yet the JVC has a native contrast of 40000:1, so maybe this latest Epson has upped its game over the out going model or that 7000:1 was a poor example.
It's hard to tell if that's meaningful at all without knowing how the setup looked. Any small amount of ambient light or reflections will quickly wash out the differences between a JVC and Epson.
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post #335 of 866 Old 02-23-2019, 02:29 PM
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The Sony HW45ES and Epson 5040UB have both been independently measured with calibrated test equipment to have about the same native contrast -- roughly in the ~6,000:1 range. The Sony HW65ES is basically an HW45ES with dynamic iris added so it's a more direct match with the 5040UB.
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post #336 of 866 Old 02-23-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bcg27 View Post
It's hard to tell if that's meaningful at all without knowing how the setup looked. Any small amount of ambient light or reflections will quickly wash out the differences between a JVC and Epson.
The room has no ambient light and dark wall, ideal for a contrast monster.
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post #337 of 866 Old 02-23-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bcg27 View Post
It's hard to tell if that's meaningful at all without knowing how the setup looked. Any small amount of ambient light or reflections will quickly wash out the differences between a JVC and Epson.
That's half the point though... Unless you have the ultimate batcave, the JVCs contrast crown expensive is bragging rights... And even if you do, unless you have the JVC there to compare you probably won't miss it much either....

And JVC has said for years that unless you have a massive screen or sit very close, the difference between faux K and Native 4k isn't much... Oh and the choice of high DCI P3/Rec 20 or higher brightness with good colours....

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post #338 of 866 Old 02-25-2019, 10:11 AM
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In depth review of the euro 5050. EH-TW9400. Use Google chrome.

https://hdtvpolska.com/epson-eh-tw94...tra-hd-4k60hz/
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post #339 of 866 Old 02-25-2019, 01:52 PM
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I bought the 5040UBE the month it came out and extremely satisfied with it. The quality for the Eshift is amazing and some BD are mind blowing on this. My dream upgrade which I hope will happen one day and willing to pay up to $6K to $8K. (I don't think this will happen in the next upgrade, but eventually in 4-6 years?)

1) 18gb or even higher
2) both Dolby Vision and IMAX enhanced
3) native 4K with E-Shift for 8K
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5) 3D in 4K? <----this alone would be worth the price of entry alone

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post #340 of 866 Old 02-25-2019, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
In depth review of the euro 5050. EH-TW9400. Use Google chrome.

https://hdtvpolska.com/epson-eh-tw94...tra-hd-4k60hz/
Best review yet!

I don't understand the 4ke screenshots descriptions. can you guys elaborate. The first image looks sharp. Is that what the projector is producing?
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post #341 of 866 Old 02-25-2019, 02:28 PM
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Yes, it is a very good review. Thanks for the link MJ! Surprisingly, Chrome does a better job translating Polish than it does French... Anyway, I pulled up their review of the JVC RS540 and compared its contrast results to the Epson 9400 (Epson-left vs JVC-right). That comparison is attached below. Comparing the same data with the 9300, there was a slight improvement.


Mike.
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post #342 of 866 Old 02-25-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
Yes, it is a very good review. Thanks for the link MJ! Surprisingly, Chrome does a better job translating Polish than it does French... Anyway, I pulled up their review of the JVC RS540 and compared its contrast results to the Epson 9400 (Epson-left vs JVC-right). That comparison is attached below. Comparing the same data with the 9300, there was a slight improvement.


Mike.
Low down contrast the JVC wins hands down.... However everything above the Epson curiously does better.... Not quite sure what that means!

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post #343 of 866 Old 02-25-2019, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
In depth review of the euro 5050. EH-TW9400. Use Google chrome.

https://hdtvpolska.com/epson-eh-tw94...tra-hd-4k60hz/
now i want to buy one and replace my 5040ub
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post #344 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 08:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
In depth review of the euro 5050. EH-TW9400. Use Google chrome.

https://hdtvpolska.com/epson-eh-tw94...tra-hd-4k60hz/
790 lumens in eco mode? 4500:1 native contrast? Ewww. I sincerely hope those measurements are ultra conservative.
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post #345 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
790 lumens in eco mode? 4500:1 native contrast? Ewww. I sincerely hope those measurements are ultra conservative.
I’m coming from a JVC RS1 which has a native CR of 15,000:1. I picked up a 5040 last month and these numbers don’t mean anything to me anymore. There’s so much mor going on in these new projectors! Granted, I did my comparison between the two and the RS1’s gray bars on an anamorphic image are darker. This does not translate in real world view. Sharper, brighter and what seems to be deep inky blacks on the Epson probably because of how bright. Waiting on the 5050 for the 18G or maybe even a new laser/LED version.
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post #346 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 11:15 AM
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Coming to North American in "Spring". Spring starts on 1 March. I hope we don't have to wait until 31 May. Dear Epson, you are making my much colder than usual winter with twice as much snow as usual much longer and harder.
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post #347 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 11:54 AM
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Do you guys know of any screenshots showing Epson's eshift vs 1080p vs 4k?

I'd like to see what my 1080p native content looks like with eshift on vs off.
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post #348 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
790 lumens in eco mode? 4500:1 native contrast? Ewww. I sincerely hope those measurements are ultra conservative.
The Eco Mode is the lowest of 3 settings for lamp brightness. The middle setting is over 1100 and the highest lamp setting is higher still. While the native contrast is about 1/3 that of the JVC 540, the ANSI contrast is better. Go figure....

Like Alaric, I’m not sure what to make of those numbers, but the Epson values for the TW9300 are nearly identical with the TW9400 showing a slight improvement in contrast. Based on the consistency of these numbers, I believe they are valid. Alex512’s experience is also telling in that these contrast numbers only tell a limited part of the story with regards to video performance.

Bottom line, I think I still want a 5050.

Mike
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post #349 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 01:40 PM
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"Spring". Spring starts on 1 March.
You must be using a different Calendar in Iowa
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post #350 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 02:00 PM
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You must be using a different Calendar in Iowa
While spring may still be 22 days away, I have to wonder what calendar Epson will be using.
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post #351 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
790 lumens in eco mode? 4500:1 native contrast? Ewww. I sincerely hope those measurements are ultra conservative.
For a calibrated Natural SDR setting on Eco in my batcave I've got the iris stoppered down to -4 giving 16 lumens on a 120" screen from ~14' away.

edit - fl 16 Foot Lamberts not lumens, that would be silly!

The PJ is ceiling mounted a few feet away from my head, at most 4' and both Eco and even Medium is quiet and very usable. High is definitely louder but if find it usable if needed.

Contrast beats my Mitsubishi HC5 so I'm pretty happy!

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Last edited by Alaric; 02-27-2019 at 01:53 AM.
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post #352 of 866 Old 02-26-2019, 06:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Alaric View Post
For a calibrated Natural SDR setting on Eco in my batcave I've got the iris stoppered down to - 4 giving 16 lumens on a 120" screen from ~14' away.

The PJ is ceiling mounted a few feet away from my head, at most 4' and both Eco and even Medium is quiet and very usable. High is definitely louder but if find it usable if needed.

Contrast beats my Mitsubishi HC5 so I'm pretty happy!

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Do you mean 1600 lumens?
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post #353 of 866 Old 02-27-2019, 01:52 AM
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Do you mean 1600 lumens?
*DOH*
Late night....Fl - Foot Lamberts. Measured off the screen. It's what you calibrate the overall brightness of a full white field too!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...-enhanced.html
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post #354 of 866 Old 02-27-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
790 lumens in eco mode? 4500:1 native contrast? Ewww. I sincerely hope those measurements are ultra conservative.
The Eco Mode is the lowest of 3 settings for lamp brightness. The middle setting is over 1100 and the highest lamp setting is higher still. While the native contrast is about 1/3 that of the JVC 540, the ANSI contrast is better. Go figure....

Like Alaric, I’m not sure what to make of those numbers, but the Epson values for the TW9300 are nearly identical with the TW9400 showing a slight improvement in contrast. Based on the consistency of these numbers, I believe they are valid. Alex512’s experience is also telling in that these contrast numbers only tell a limited part of the story with regards to video performance.

Bottom line, I think I still want a 5050.

Mike
I'm in total agreement here, I think Epson is a great alternative to JVC and Sony, people fixate way too much on native contrast ratings. My experience with the UB series is that they have excellent contrast ratio, especially with the Iris enabled. To me, the JVC and Sony projectors are just not worth the huge premium.

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@Alaric

I figured you meant Lamberts. I notice most people from Europe tend to use that measurement instead of lumens. As for the Epson I think it is the best crossover for a mid-range projector that gives good amounts of brightness with adequate native contrast.

I would still suggest JVC for someone who's up solely watching movies on the projector because JVC is discernibly superior in that regard. The one thing that still bugs me is how conservative some of the measurements for the Epson 5050 are. From what I read, the Epson 5040 was measuring around 1500 lumens in medium mode on natural setting when it was tested. So it just seems like the numbers are much lower in terms of brightness for the 5050UB but I'm going to assume that is due to do testers and not the equipment itself.
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post #356 of 866 Old 02-27-2019, 07:11 AM
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@Alaric

I figured you meant Lamberts. I notice most people from Europe tend to use that measurement instead of lumens. As for the Epson I think it is the best crossover for a mid-range projector that gives good amounts of brightness with adequate native contrast.

I would still suggest JVC for someone who's up solely watching movies on the projector because JVC is discernibly superior in that regard. The one thing that still bugs me is how conservative some of the measurements for the Epson 5050 are. From what I read, the Epson 5040 was measuring around 1500 lumens in medium mode on natural setting when it was tested. So it just seems like the numbers are much lower in terms of brightness for the 5050UB but I'm going to assume that is due to do testers and not the equipment itself.
I would be surprised if there is a major difference in brightness between the 5040 and 5050 with so much of the design seeming to be the same.
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post #357 of 866 Old 02-27-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
@Alaric



I figured you meant Lamberts. I notice most people from Europe tend to use that measurement instead of lumens. As for the Epson I think it is the best crossover for a mid-range projector that gives good amounts of brightness with adequate native contrast.

I was only using fL as that seems to be the recommended way that light off the screen seems to be calibrated... I always look at lumens in projector specs!

Quote:

I would still suggest JVC for someone who's up solely watching movies on the projector because JVC is discernibly superior in that regard. The one thing that still bugs me is how conservative some of the measurements for the Epson 5050 are. From what I read, the Epson 5040 was measuring around 1500 lumens in medium mode on natural setting when it was tested. So it just seems like the numbers are much lower in terms of brightness for the 5050UB but I'm going to assume that is due to do testers and not the equipment itself.
There are three settings on the Epson, not the normal two. Eco, Medium and High.

The color mode also makes a difference. Digital Color adds the filter and that heavily reduces light output but gives a 100% of DCI P3

Then there is also calibration which can knock light down too, so figures given vs manufacturers seem to vary a lot!

The Epson gives a great performance and a lot of choice for a very modest budget.... It gets compared with stuff 2-3x the cost, that's impressive!





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post #358 of 866 Old 02-27-2019, 02:36 PM
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I was reading through the TW9400 manual and noticed that there is no mention of support for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision, only HDR10 and HLG. Does anyone know if Epson has announced support for these formats in a future firmware release?

Thanks,
Mike
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post #359 of 866 Old 02-27-2019, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
I was reading through the TW9400 manual and noticed that there is no mention of support for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision, only HDR10 and HLG. Does anyone know if Epson has announced support for these formats in a future firmware release?



Thanks,

Mike
No projector supports Dolby Vision and I doubt it will. It's licensed and controlled which causes issues, but the biggest obstacle is light output!

HDR10+ is a Samsung format that adds a plus for metadata but there is currently little content and the whole it's from another manufacturer seems to be making it tricky. There are a couple of other standards out there too....a not format war!

As for future format supports that requires a crystal ball... It can be firmware updated and is supported, for how long and with what...

Sound - Marantz SR6011 (pre/atmos), Yamaha Z9, Mirage Om-6's, Om-C2's, 6x Om-R2's, 4x Nanosat (atmos), Dual Paradigim Servo 15's
Additional - MiniDSP : DDRC-88a, 2x4HD
Source -Panasonic DP-UB420, Toshiba HD-XE1, Sony SCD-XE620
Vision - Epson TW9400, eecolour Lut Box, 120" Spitfire Acoustically Transparent Screen

Last edited by Alaric; 02-27-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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post #360 of 866 Old 02-27-2019, 03:21 PM
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So basically, there is no support for metadata at this time.
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