Epson 5050\6050 Rumors? - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 866 Old 03-15-2019, 05:32 PM
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Instead of offering the free bulb on 5040, they should offer lifetime warranty, since the power supply has a design flaw. Still would be huge inconvenience for customer to keep sending them in for replacements...
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post #452 of 866 Old 03-15-2019, 08:43 PM
 
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As much as I really like Epson projectors, I can not recommend the Epson 5050 over an entry level b-stock JVC in the same price range. JVC will have superior image quality, better shapness, better color saturation, better color accuracy, and much better contrast which creates a more in-depth immersive image.
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Last edited by RadiantHT; 03-16-2019 at 10:46 AM.
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post #453 of 866 Old 03-15-2019, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
As much as I really like a person, I can not recommend the Epson 5050 over an entry level JVC in the same price point. JVC will have superior image quality, better shapness, better color saturation, better color accuracy, and much better contrast which creates a more in-depth immersive image.
Do you have a JVC or an Epson?

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post #454 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by caesar1969 View Post



It is very tempting at this time to get a 5040UB to save 1K+free bulb, as I never experienced 4K in my 160" screen.



I heard 5040UB lumens exceed the advertised number by 40% which will be helpful in my setup to watch movies with some ambient light.

That's a BIG screen. Projectors inherently struggle with ambient light and it kills contrast. You are fighting two things that suck light here.
High power, SDR and it'll still be compromised and comparatively washed out!


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My current setup contains only HTPC (no BD player/cable box etc) with 2 HDMI outs (one goes to Epson 5010 and the other to the Marantz processor). I don't know if 5040 plays 4K streaming from HTPC with windows 10 UHD graphics 630. Any Epson users with HTPC in this thread?
10gb HDMI will be your limit here on the older models. 24P 4k HDR is doable. You have to choose 4k or SDR if you want 60hz because of bandwidth limitations, that's why the 18gb hdmi is a big deal!


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post #455 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
As much as I really like a person, I can not recommend the Epson 5050 over an entry level JVC in the same price point. JVC will have superior image quality, better shapness, better color saturation, better color accuracy, and much better contrast which creates a more in-depth immersive image.
For a completely light controlled theater sure. However if this is going to be any sort of TV replacement living room setup there is 0 chance you get any benefit from the jvc. Not to mention the upkeep cost on bulbs etc would kill you.

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post #456 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
As much as I really like a person, I can not recommend the Epson 5050 over an entry level JVC in the same price point. JVC will have superior image quality, better shapness, better color saturation, better color accuracy, and much better contrast which creates a more in-depth immersive image.
What JVC is under $3k?
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post #457 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
As much as I really like a person, I can not recommend the Epson 5050 over an entry level JVC in the same price point. JVC will have superior image quality, better shapness, better color saturation, better color accuracy, and much better contrast which creates a more in-depth immersive image.
Same price point? The JVCs are way more expensive! Unless you are going secondhand.

The Epsons have measurably better color accuracy hitting 100% DCI P3.
They can also put out more light too, which is better for HDR

Oh and a friend who saw my TW9400 and has a JVC7900 said it was noticeably sharper!

JVCs are better at low end contrast, if you have a batcave room to make use of that, though this epson is no slouch there either!

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post #458 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Alaric View Post
Same price point? The JVCs are way more expensive! Unless you are going secondhand.

The Epsons have measurably better color accuracy hitting 100% DCI P3.
They can also put out more light too, which is better for HDR

Oh and a friend who saw my TW9400 and has a JVC7900 said it was noticeably sharper!

JVCs are better at low end contrast, if you have a batcave room to make use of that, though this epson is no slouch there either!

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
I completely agree with the statement. JVC is the best projector suited for a white screen installed in a completely dark room, but one should avoid JVC projectors;
1) If you don't have a light controlled room,
2) For 16:9 screen size greater than 120" diagonal,
3) If you are a daily projector user (consider the bulb replacement costs). My PJ is used ~6 hours a day for work and entertainment as I have no other TV in my place.

I tried my friend's JVC DLA-X570R on my 160" grey screen and the 1800 lumens in high brightness mode resulted in a dull overall picture. My wife told me to switch to Epson immediately as we both love a bright picture over a inky black level.

It is easy to get excellent black levels when the overall picture is dim but Epson fills up my 160" grey screen with a beautiful, punchy image and very good black level with the auto-iris engaged.
I see picture wash out with daylight, but Epson handles occasional kitchen lighting very well. Since I project my HTPC, it is easy to prepare my work documents and browse internet on the projector with good brightness.
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post #459 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
As much as I really like a person, I can not recommend the Epson 5050 over an entry level JVC in the same price point. JVC will have superior image quality, better shapness, better color saturation, better color accuracy, and much better contrast which creates a more in-depth immersive image.
Everyone is entitled to their respective opinions and to be completely honest this very subject has been debated at length of AVForums too. One would instantly think being much more expensive the entry level JVC should walk all over the Epson but numerous JVC owners over on that forum have seen both (professionally calibrated) in side by side demos and said if it were their money the Epson would have won the sales. One comment that has been mentioned a few times was image sharpness so maybe this belief that JVC are better in every aspect is a bit misleading.
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post #460 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 10:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rustolemite View Post
Do you have a JVC or an Epson?
I've owned numerous models from both manufacturers.
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post #461 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 10:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Everyone is entitled to their respective opinions and to be completely honest this very subject has been debated at length of AVForums too. One would instantly think being much more expensive the entry level JVC should walk all over the Epson but numerous JVC owners over on that forum have seen both (professionally calibrated) in side by side demos and said if it were their money the Epson would have won the sales. One comment that has been mentioned a few times was image sharpness so maybe this belief that JVC are better in every aspect is a bit misleading.
In a light controled room I would choose an entry-level b-stock JVC projector. However, the Epson 5040 had a sharp image die to a high quality lens. So I don't doubt that the newer Epson 5050 could appear even sharper than an older series entry-level JVC projector.
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post #462 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 10:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Alaric View Post
Same price point? The JVCs are way more expensive! Unless you are going secondhand.

The Epsons have measurably better color accuracy hitting 100% DCI P3.
They can also put out more light too, which is better for HDR

Oh and a friend who saw my TW9400 and has a JVC7900 said it was noticeably sharper!

JVCs are better at low end contrast, if you have a batcave room to make use of that, though this epson is no slouch there either!

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
I edited my post. I meant a B-stock entry-level JVC projector is in the same price range.
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post #463 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 10:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caesar1969 View Post
I completely agree with the statement. JVC is the best projector suited for a white screen installed in a completely dark room, but one should avoid JVC projectors;
1) If you don't have a light controlled room,
2) For 16:9 screen size greater than 120" diagonal,
3) If you are a daily projector user (consider the bulb replacement costs). My PJ is used ~6 hours a day for work and entertainment as I have no other TV in my place.

I tried my friend's JVC DLA-X570R on my 160" grey screen and the 1800 lumens in high brightness mode resulted in a dull overall picture. My wife told me to switch to Epson immediately as we both love a bright picture over a inky black level.

It is easy to get excellent black levels when the overall picture is dim but Epson fills up my 160" grey screen with a beautiful, punchy image and very good black level with the auto-iris engaged.
I see picture wash out with daylight, but Epson handles occasional kitchen lighting very well. Since I project my HTPC, it is easy to prepare my work documents and browse internet on the projector with good brightness.
This post mirrors my thoughts exactly. I would not use a JVC on any screen over 120 inch diagonal. The image will be much dimmer with a JVC in comparison to an Epson 5040. I would never recommend JVC as a TV replacement due to their horribly priced bulbs.

However for movie use in a dark room with little light, JVC is king in my opinion. Their picture quality is discernibly better than any other projector I've owned in a dark room.
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post #464 of 866 Old 03-16-2019, 12:50 PM
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Yep, if the bulb price was different I'd be tracking down a JVC. I use my pj as my main display for all viewing, so the cost is prohibitive.
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post #465 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 04:48 AM
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The 5040 discount was extended another week. It makes sense that will continue until the 5050 release, or at least until 3/31 when the bulb rebate ends.
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post #466 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 05:35 AM
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I got my 3K tax refund direct deposited yesterday. I will place the order for 5050 tomorrow despite the 1K price difference, as I may need the 18GBPS HDMI 2.0 in my HTPC setup as recommended by others.

I did upgrade my HDMI cable to HDR compatible version so I see how Epson 5050 handles 4K HDR image files (Planet Earth II etc.,).

My HTPC motherboard has a display port and I am using DP to HDMI 4K UHD adapter to connect the HDMI cable to the PJ. I have to see if my whole setup is 4K HDR display compatible from source to the PJ.
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post #467 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
This post mirrors my thoughts exactly. I would not use a JVC on any screen over 120 inch diagonal. The image will be much dimmer with a JVC in comparison to an Epson 5040. I would never recommend JVC as a TV replacement due to their horribly priced bulbs.

However for movie use in a dark room with little light, JVC is king in my opinion. Their picture quality is discernibly better than any other projector I've owned in a dark room.

Odd how you keep leaving off your biggest qualifier of <120" screen. It should read:

- in a dark room, JVC is king IF the screen is < 120" screen
- any other projector ON a < 120" screen

Sorry, but many of us have much bigger screens than that. I have no desire to downgrade to a JVC for my 145" screen.
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post #468 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 09:29 AM
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Instead of offering the free bulb on 5040, they should offer lifetime warranty, since the power supply has a design flaw. Still would be huge inconvenience for customer to keep sending them in for replacements...
The problem will hit hard after the 2-year warranty expires on those 5040s. Projector repairs outside of warranty coverage are very expensive. There will likely be many 5040 owners that will experience a failure after the warranty expires and they will be VERY unhappy and will likely never buy another Epson product again. Because of the late release of the 5050, I'm waiting until after Cedia to upgrade. But another reason I'm waiting is to see if there are any failures of the 5050 similar to the power supply failures of the 5040. I want to make sure that issue is completely resolved.
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post #469 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 09:39 AM
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I’ve been following this thread. I'm headed to an Atlanta Audio Club meeting this afternoon where two gentlemen from Epson, Jeff Paiva, and Charlie Boornazian will be presenting some of the Epson projector product line.

Of course, I’ll ask for an update on when the 5050 and 6050 will be released in North America.

If I learn anything concrete, I’ll post again.
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post #470 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 10:39 AM
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The problem will hit hard after the 2-year warranty expires on those 5040s. Projector repairs outside of warranty coverage are very expensive. There will likely be many 5040 owners that will experience a failure after the warranty expires and they will be VERY unhappy and will likely never buy another Epson product again. Because of the late release of the 5050, I'm waiting until after Cedia to upgrade. But another reason I'm waiting is to see if there are any failures of the 5050 similar to the power supply failures of the 5040. I want to make sure that issue is completely resolved.
Buying with an Amex will give an additional 2 years of warranty, or a square trade or other warranty is an option as well. You would still come out way ahead at least from a pure dollar standpoint. Of course there are additional considerations for hassle, down time, etc.
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post #471 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 11:15 AM
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Buying with an Amex will give an additional 2 years of warranty, or a square trade or other warranty is an option as well. You would still come out way ahead at least from a pure dollar standpoint. Of course there are additional considerations for hassle, down time, etc.
Yes, I actually used my credit card extended warranty on my Epson 6010 projector. Right after the 3-year warranty expired, my projector started shutting down and overheating. I took it to an Epson service center and got an estimate for about $450 for the repair. I sent that to the credit card company and they paid for it. When the projector came back, it had a couple of dust blobs. So, I sent it back and they completely replaced the light engine. It was almost like a new projector - all covered by my 1-year warranty extension on my Chase credit card.
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post #472 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 12:42 PM
 
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@rbk123

You sacrifice picture quality for immersion anytime you go with a screen that large. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely prefer size with all things being equal. But with as slow as projector technology is advancing, you cannot get high contrast and high lumens in the same package. 4K has made resolving resolution for larger screens less of a pain than it used to be. I'm sure companies could do so if they got serious about high lumen laser projectors, but they know they have consumers right where they want them with today's outdated bulb tech. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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post #473 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 01:33 PM
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Does anyone else wish they’d had made the 5050 a more compact projector. Why is this and the 5040 so much larger than the previous home theater models they’ve released.
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post #474 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 01:42 PM
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@rbk123

You sacrifice picture quality for immersion anytime you go with a screen that large. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely prefer size with all things being equal. But with as slow as projector technology is advancing, you cannot get high contrast and high lumens in the same package. 4K has made resolving resolution for larger screens less of a pain than it used to be. I'm sure companies could do so if they got serious about high lumen laser projectors, but they know they have consumers right where they want them with today's outdated bulb tech. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
There's a reason why people go to the theatres to watch a movie over watching it on the superior picture quality of their 60" OLED. All things don't need to be equal: people will invariably choose an excellent bigger picture over a slightly superior but smaller picture. Again, I'll pass on the downgrade to the JVC.
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post #475 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 05:02 PM
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According to, Jeff Pavia, Epson's National Sales Trainer, the Epson 5050, and 6050 will debut in April or May. I know that’s vague.
Jeff’s presentation was really informative. He is a wealth of knowledge and an enthusiast himself. He has two projector systems in his own home. He agrees Sony and JVC make excellent projectors, but said Epson provides the highest value offerings. I would agree. For our meeting Jeff had two Epson laser projectors at hand but used just one.

There was some discussion regarding viewing distance vs. visual acuity. Jeff showed some resolution vs. distance charts and argues 4K in and of itself provides no advantage except at unnaturally close viewing distances. Therefore, Epson will continue to offer pixel shifting projectors. He also said true 4K displays struggle with adequate light output and that home theater projectors really need to output between 2000 and 3000 lumens to produce a truly captivating experience. One other comment was size matters. Jeff said the minimum screen size for an immersive experience was 120” dia. For a 16 X 9 screen.
He showed a couple of graphs comparing how well Epson’s output matched up to an HDR curve compared to an Optima and a Sony. Of course, the Epson tracked much closer and produced a near mirror image of the target curve up to a point. He said at this point, HDR requires more understanding and development from all projector manufacturers.

Jeff said in his opinion, Dolby Vision is a superior standard to HDR and HDR-10, but Dolby licensing fees are expensive, and their technology tends to be intrusive. Its kind of a Beta vs. VHS or HD-DVD vs, Blu-ray all over again.

I have never owned an Epson. Over the past 15 years or so I’ve gone from an LCD Panasonic PT-AE 700, to a DLP Samsung SP-H710AE, and now have a JVC DLA-RS6710U (purchased used with low hours). The JVC is the best so far of course. It too is a pixel shifter and throws a great picture. Nonetheless, after hearing Jeff today, and given the fact that I don’t have a “Bat Cave”, I might just prefer the new Epson as I think it would be noticeably brighter, just as sharp, have better more accurate color, and be as HDR capable as any other projector at this stage. Add to that, the cost of a new Epson would be a bargain compared to a new native 4K JVC.

So, I’m going to sit tight for a couple years, hopefully, and wait on the sidelines to see what develops. My takeaway was there is no need to rush out and buy more resolution, rather closer compliance with the HDR or Dolby vision spec is what will provide the wow factor.

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post #476 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 05:24 PM
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According to, Jeff Pavia, Epson's National Sales Trainer, the Epson 5050, and 6050 will debut in April or May. I know that’s vague.

Jeff’s presentation was really informative. He is a wealth of knowledge and an enthusiast himself. He has two projector systems in his own home. He agrees Sony and JVC make excellent projectors, but said Epson provides the highest value offerings. I would agree. For our meeting Jeff had two Epson laser projectors at hand but used just one.



There was some discussion regarding viewing distance vs. visual acuity. Jeff showed some resolution vs. distance charts and argues 4K in and of itself provides no advantage except at unnaturally close viewing distances. Therefore, Epson will continue to offer pixel shifting projectors. He also said true 4K displays struggle with adequate light output and that home theater projectors really need to output between 2000 and 3000 lumens to produce a truly captivating experience. One other comment was size matters. Jeff said the minimum screen size for an immersive experience was 120” dia. For a 16 X 9 screen.

He showed a couple of graphs comparing how well Epson’s output matched up to an HDR curve compared to an Optima and a Sony. Of course, the Epson tracked much closer and produced a near mirror image of the target curve up to a point. He said at this point, HDR requires more understanding and development from all projector manufacturers.



Jeff said in his opinion, Dolby Vision is a superior standard to HDR and HDR-10, but Dolby licensing fees are expensive, and their technology tends to be intrusive. Its kind of a Beta vs. VHS or HD-DVD vs, Blu-ray all over again.



I have never owned an Epson. Over the past 15 years or so I’ve gone from an LCD Panasonic PT-AE 700, to a DLP Samsung SP-H710AE, and now have a JVC DLA-RS6710U (purchased used with low hours). The JVC is the best so far of course. It too is a pixel shifter and throws a great picture. Nonetheless, after hearing Jeff today, and given the fact that I don’t have a “Bat Cave”, I might just prefer the new Epson as I think it would be noticeably brighter, just as sharp, have better more accurate color, and be as HDR capable as any other projector at this stage. Add to that, the cost of a new Epson would be a bargain compared to a new native 4K JVC.



So, I’m going to sit tight for a couple years, hopefully, and wait on the sidelines to see what develops. My takeaway was there is no need to rush out and buy more resolution, rather closer compliance with the HDR or Dolby vision spec is what will provide the wow factor.
Thanks for the detailed feedback from your meeting! I'm trying to force myself to hold off on purchasing a projector, but I'm finding it hard to wait.

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post #477 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 05:26 PM
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JDEATON,


Thanks for the info and relaying what he spoke about. Sorry to be pessimistic, but be nice to hear them speak about the design flaw in the 5040.
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post #478 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
@rbk123

You sacrifice picture quality for immersion anytime you go with a screen that large. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely prefer size with all things being equal. But with as slow as projector technology is advancing, you cannot get high contrast and high lumens in the same package. 4K has made resolving resolution for larger screens less of a pain than it used to be. I'm sure companies could do so if they got serious about high lumen laser projectors, but they know they have consumers right where they want them with today's outdated bulb tech. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Epson is the only company that can get get "high contrast and high lumens in the same package" for any price. I had 160" screen for 15 years in my living room and I can't imagine going to any smaller size screen. Epson fills up the entire screen with great picture quality and family/friends are mesmerized when they come over to watch movies. Auto Iris feature in Epson is a brilliant idea to get great black levels in dark scenes.

When you can buy a 85" diagonal TV's, I don't see any point in wasting money on a projector for a 92" screen, which I notice many reviewers use to evaluate projectors.

I don't mind to have a 200" screen with Epson PJ for my next house for a larger room.
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Using an iris is a Band-Aid for low native contrast which I never use. Also, the Epson's lumens output takes a huge dip when using a cinema setting for accurate color.
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post #480 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 10:04 PM
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I would never buy a B stock Home Electronics product.
Maybe an amp.


To compare a 5k JVC with a 2500 is just plain ridiculous. I don't care what B stock prices are.


Also it's ridiculous that the 5050's won't be out for a couple more months. Especially since the "upgrade" isn't that substantial. They're just trying to move old stock.
And so waiting for CEDIA to tell us what projectors might be on the shelves next April or May?
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