Epson 5050\6050 Rumors? - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JDEATON View Post
According to, Jeff Pavia, Epson's National Sales Trainer, ...

Jeff said in his opinion, Dolby Vision is a superior standard to HDR and HDR-10, but Dolby licensing fees are expensive, and their technology tends to be intrusive. Its kind of a Beta vs. VHS or HD-DVD vs, Blu-ray all over again.

.....

So, I’m going to sit tight for a couple years, hopefully, and wait on the sidelines to see what develops. My takeaway was there is no need to rush out and buy more resolution, rather closer compliance with the HDR or Dolby vision spec is what will provide the wow factor.
I'm guessing the comparison (in bold) HDR vs. HDR-10 was meant to be HDR-10 vs. HDR-10+ since HDR is by default HDR-10 and the HDR-10+ standard includes the dynamic metadata, similar to Dolby Vision.

Unfortunately, none of the projectors currently available in the under $10k range support dynamic metadata (HDR 10+ and Dolby Vision), including the 5050, so my guess is that we won't see support for dynamic metadata until we also see a changeover to a laser light engine that can be dynamically overdriven to really spike it's output for those specular highlights and occasional really bright scenes while staying within it's temperature envelope for the majority of it's operation.

Mike
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post #482 of 866 Old 03-17-2019, 11:33 PM
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Was the EU version of the 5040UB (TW 9300) susceptible to the same power supply issues?

In any case it would take at least a few months after release to know if the new model has the same fault.
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post #483 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
Using an iris is a Band-Aid for low native contrast which I never use. Also, the Epson's lumens output takes a huge dip when using a cinema setting for accurate color.
Half truths again.... The filter does indeed reduce light output, but it is only used for DCI P3/rec. 2020 and in use beats all the JVC reviews I've seen!
It is optional though and without it the Epson beats even the mid range Sony 4k on colour accuracy.

The nice thing is that the Epson gives you that choice, prefer more accurate color use the filter, want more light no problem.... So a bright sports game where things are less critical AND an accurate movie.... Or if you have a high nits film!

As for the Iris being a band aid, that's some old school JVC talk there!
Highly useful for stoppering down the light, even if you don't use it in it's auto mode and the high speed modes are pretty quiet and a lot less prone to pulsing than they used to be. It's very usable in this Epson!


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post #484 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
I'm guessing the comparison (in bold) HDR vs. HDR-10 was meant to be HDR-10 vs. HDR-10+ since HDR is by default HDR-10 and the HDR-10+ standard includes the dynamic metadata, similar to Dolby Vision.

Unfortunately, none of the projectors currently available in the under $10k range support dynamic metadata (HDR 10+ and Dolby Vision), including the 5050, so my guess is that we won't see support for dynamic metadata until we also see a changeover to a laser light engine that can be dynamically overdriven to really spike it's output for those specular highlights and occasional really bright scenes while staying within it's temperature envelope for the majority of it's operation.

Mike
Mike, thanks for correcting my HDR-10 vs. HDR-10+ misstatement. At this point I’m just not that well versed on all things 4K/UHD.

Regarding brightness, I do believe you are correct. From what I’ve read, projectors just don’t have the capability to output enough light for really bright HDR scenes. Hopefully, laser projectors will be the answer. The concerning thing is, I see very little news regarding the release of new laser projectors. Maybe I’m not looking in the right places.

The JVC DLA-RS4500 doesn’t seem to get mentioned anymore, and the Epson LS10500 has been out for two years with no replacement buzz. (Epson will sell you a new LS10500 for $4559.00, tempting.)

Hopefully there is a lot of laser work going on behind the scenes we are not aware of.

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post #485 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Alaric View Post
Half truths again.... The filter does indeed reduce light output, but it is only used for DCI P3/rec. 2020 and in use beats all the JVC reviews I've seen!
It is optional though and without it the Epson beats even the mid range Sony 4k on colour accuracy.
Not to mention you can use a brighter non-cinema setting but change all the custom settings and get the benefit of the increased lumens with the same picture quality. Just look at Neilvm's and Orcus' calibrated settings and how similar the picture ends up being but with different lumens.
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post #486 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 07:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rbk123 View Post
Not to mention you can use a brighter non-cinema setting but change all the custom settings and get the benefit of the increased lumens with the same picture quality. Just look at Neilvm's and Orcus' calibrated settings and how similar the picture ends up being but with different lumens.
Radian needs to remember the first rule when in a hole.
This is an imaginary hole online. I was at the latest Cedia. The JVC Expo was packed full of av enthusiasts. The Epson Expo had little to no interest. You don't have to take my word for it. Feel free to ask any of the members from the 3000 and up projector forum who attended Cedia in 2018.

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post #487 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 08:07 AM
 
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Half truths again.... The filter does indeed reduce light output, but it is only used for DCI P3/rec. 2020 and in use beats all the JVC reviews I've seen!
It is optional though and without it the Epson beats even the mid range Sony 4k on colour accuracy.

The nice thing is that the Epson gives you that choice, prefer more accurate color use the filter, want more light no problem.... So a bright sports game where things are less critical AND an accurate movie.... Or if you have a high nits film!

As for the Iris being a band aid, that's some old school JVC talk there!
Highly useful for stoppering down the light, even if you don't use it in it's auto mode and the high speed modes are pretty quiet and a lot less prone to pulsing than they used to be. It's very usable in this Epson!


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Epson 5040's iris was hands down the best I've used out of any projector including higher end projectors from Sony and JVC. However with that being said, I can always see any iris pulsing through different scenes. And the Epson is no different though it is better than most. In all fairness, people shouldn't toss around the term high contrast around so freely. Native contrast of 5,000 to 1 is not high contrast. That is not from a bias opinion. That is just a fact.

And Sony's 4K projectors are known for their superior color accuracy out of the box. Epson has never been known for superior color accuracy rather their calling card is excessive lumens output. I have never seen any technical review where Epson beats a Sony 4K projector in terms of color accuracy. You may be referring to the 9400/5050's latest cinema setting come up which I cannot comment on. But I stated before Epson is known for having a massive drop in lumen output when using its most accurate setting. Epson's bright cinema mode sacrifices color accuracy for increased lumen output. And Epson's natural setting though good does not best Sony's most accurate color settings on any of their 4K projectors. The Epson 5040's lumen output drop was so steep in cinema mode that I found that setting unusable. What makes Sony special is their superior color accuracy without excessive dip in lumen output.

Last edited by RadiantHT; 03-18-2019 at 08:16 AM.
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post #488 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 08:11 AM
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This is an imaginary hole online. I was at the latest Cedia. The JVC Expo was packed full of av enthusiasts. The Epson Expo had little to no interest.
Using Expo attendance, and subjective quantification on top of it, to justify your argument of a superior performing projector at a cost point? Now that's funny.

Ahh, and now you're adding Sony projectors to your defense of B-stock JVC being a better value? Are those B-Stock Sony's as well?

Keep digging, you'll get to China eventually.
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post #489 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 08:26 AM
 
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Using Expo attendance, and subjective quantification on top of it, to justify your argument of a superior performing projector at a cost point? Now that's funny.

Ahh, and now you're adding Sony projectors to your defense of B-stock JVC being a better value? Are those B-Stock Sony's as well?

Keep digging, you'll get to China eventually.
I am not a biased consumer. I don't own one brand and defend it against all other brands. I'm in this thread because I intend to purchase an Epson 5050 as soon as it comes out. I have no interest in endlessly debating over the projector.

And I've owned numerous other higher end projectors so I I have a balanced set of experiences at different price points to justify my views. Unlike many people online who love to defend what they own but have not seen, compared, and owned other projectors at different price points. Epson does give the most bang for buck in my opinion.

But I'm not biased and I will not act as if it punches above its weight and beats other projectors at higher price points when it comes to picture quality in a dark room because it does not. How many jvc's have you compared to your Epson in your room? How many Sony 4K or 1080p projectors have you owned and compared in your room? Have you owned any Barco projectors? Have you owned any of the higher end flagship Benq projectors? I have and this is where my thoughts and opinions come from. With that being said, these are just my opinions. My intentions are not to disparage a product or devalue anyone else's opinions.

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post #490 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 08:35 AM
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I am not a biased consumer.
I don't really care if you are biased or not, it's your points we're addressing and they've all proven to be wrong. When countered with corrective responses you evade and take the discussion sideways. What does owning Sony projectors have to do with your (debunked) premise that a B-Stock JVC is the best/only thing to get at the 50XX price point?
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post #491 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 08:39 AM
 
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I don't really care if you are biased or not, it's your points we're addressing and they've all proven to be wrong. When countered with corrective responses you evade and take the discussion sideways.
Just because your opinion is different from mine does that mean you're right. You have not proved anything scientific to dissuade anything I've stated. Don't post false information that you have not backed up. Your only counter is "dude I have a large screen so a higher end, high contrast projector won't work for me." You show me measurements where Epson best Sony or JVC in terms of color accuracy in their most accurate settings. Go ahead I'll wait.
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post #492 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 09:22 AM
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Just because your opinion is different from mine does that mean you're right. You have not proved anything scientific to dissuade anything I've stated. Don't post false information that you have not backed up. Your only counter is "dude I have a large screen so a higher end, high contrast projector won't work for me." You show me measurements where Epson best Sony or JVC in terms of color accuracy in their most accurate settings. Go ahead I'll wait.
Actually you agreed with the larger screen comment, so I'm using you yourself for the basis of disproving your own point. I never said anything about higher end/high contrast projectors, I am specific solely to your silly low-end B-stock claim.

I'll ask for a third time - what do Sony projectors have to do with your silly B-stock JVC best projector at this price point claim? Give it a rest.
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post #493 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 09:33 AM
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As much as I really like Epson projectors, I can not recommend the Epson 5050 over an entry level b-stock JVC in the same price range. JVC will have superior image quality, better shapness, better color saturation, better color accuracy, and much better contrast which creates a more in-depth immersive image.
I disagree, entry level JVCs will not beat the 5050UB, the difference between Epson and JVC is far overstated. Epson also has much better bulb life, brightness, and bulb cost. Besides, most rooms are simply not dark enough to take advantage of the higher native contrast ratio of the JVCs.

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post #494 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 09:37 AM
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Not to mention you can use a brighter non-cinema setting but change all the custom settings and get the benefit of the increased lumens with the same picture quality. Just look at Neilvm's and Orcus' calibrated settings and how similar the picture ends up being but with different lumens.
Radian needs to remember the first rule when in a hole.
This is an imaginary hole online. I was at the latest Cedia. The JVC Expo was packed full of av enthusiasts. The Epson Expo had little to no interest. You don't have to take my word for it. Feel free to ask any of the members from the 3000 and up projector forum who attended Cedia in 2018.
So what? That doesn't remotely refute the incredible value and bang for the buck of Epson projectors. Keep paying $8000 per projector, I'll keep paying less than $3000. 🙂

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post #495 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 11:55 AM
 
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So what? That doesn't remotely refute the incredible value and bang for the buck of Epson projectors. Keep paying $8000 per projector, I'll keep paying less than $3000. 🙂
I've already stated that I felt Epson gives the best bang for buck.
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post #496 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 11:56 AM
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How many jvc's have you compared to your Epson in your room? How many Sony 4K or 1080p projectors have you owned and compared in your room? Have you owned any Barco projectors?
I was actually aiming for a JVC second hand just before Christmas and missed an X7900..... I'd been loosely looking at how to improve from my Mitsubishi HC5 (Hc9000) and it was a really tricky search as that was an amazing bag for it's buck.
The Epson comfortably beats it on blacks, contrast and a very usable 3D. It's also 4k enabled and has very high light output which made more sense with the market moving towards HDR.
Prior to that i had a Mits 4000 which got me back into the PJ game as I was a CRT nut in my old place but mounting my modified Barco BG808 was not really an option. I had a few Barco's prior to that and have been in this game for 20+ years!

I'm no fan boy or trying to justify a purchase!

As for ceda I'd have been at the JVC stand. 4k with 8k pixel shifting would get my inner geek doing back flips to see.
The Epson is by comparison old tech, there's nothing new or wow there apart from it being an absolute steal!
It's not even in the $3k group.... And yet offers most of what they do!

I'm also a facts and figures guy and I'll dig out the polish reviews for the TW9400 and the 4k native Sony. I was stunned that the Epson in Natural was brighter and more accurate than it. It's way more accurate in filter modes but agree its a big light hit.... I'm curious about if there is a power light filter made for it as I'm a bit of an accuracy nut. I've decent meters and even a 3D LUT box, though alas 1080p only!

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post #497 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 12:00 PM
 
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I disagree, entry level JVCs will not beat the 5050UB, the difference between Epson and JVC is far overstated. Epson also has much better bulb life, brightness, and bulb cost. Besides, most rooms are simply not dark enough to take advantage of the higher native contrast ratio of the JVCs.
I have used a JVC in a room with white walls and in a room with black walls in a basement. In both scenarios, the b stock JVC entry level four series showed a discernibly better picture quality than the Epson 5040. If you go to the 3000 and up forim and read the Epson vs JVC threads you will see this opinion shared by many others. The only people who continue to refuse this are people who have not owned both and seen both in their own room.
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Actually you agreed with the larger screen comment, so I'm using you yourself for the basis of disproving your own point. I never said anything about higher end/high contrast projectors, I am specific solely to your silly low-end B-stock claim.

I'll ask for a third time - what do Sony projectors have to do with your silly B-stock JVC best projector at this price point claim? Give it a rest.
At the $2,500 price point, I stated Epson 5050 would be a smash hit. What caused all these negative comments is when I stated that at $3,000 price point I honestly think an entry-level 4 series b- stock JVC projector would be the better buy unless you're using a larger screen. If you are using a larger screen then JVC's light output is not going to get it done. So the Epson will be a better fit in those scenarios.

But if you are looking for the absolute best image quality in a dark room for movies JVC is King. No more no less.
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post #499 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 12:21 PM
 
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I was actually aiming for a JVC second hand just before Christmas and missed an X7900..... I'd been loosely looking at how to improve from my Mitsubishi HC5 (Hc9000) and it was a really tricky search as that was an amazing bag for it's buck.
The Epson comfortably beats it on blacks, contrast and a very usable 3D. It's also 4k enabled and has very high light output which made more sense with the market moving towards HDR.
Prior to that i had a Mits 4000 which got me back into the PJ game as I was a CRT nut in my old place but mounting my modified Barco BG808 was not really an option. I had a few Barco's prior to that and have been in this game for 20+ years!

I'm no fan boy or trying to justify a purchase!

As for ceda I'd have been at the JVC stand. 4k with 8k pixel shifting would get my inner geek doing back flips to see.
The Epson is by comparison old tech, there's nothing new or wow there apart from it being an absolute steal!
It's not even in the $3k group.... And yet offers most of what they do!

I'm also a facts and figures guy and I'll dig out the polish reviews for the TW9400 and the 4k native Sony. I was stunned that the Epson in Natural was brighter and more accurate than it. It's way more accurate in filter modes but agree its a big light hit.... I'm curious about if there is a power light filter made for it as I'm a bit of an accuracy nut. I've decent meters and even a 3D LUT box, though alas 1080p only!

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
I followed all your posts at the european AV forum. Your continued posts show your excitement for your purchase which has helped give me peace of mind about my incoming purchase for the Epson 5050. I have not seen it so I cannot judge it.

But if it is an improvement on the 5040 it definitely has me excited because I prefer a brighter picture over immensely high contrast. And I'm willing to sacrifice some blacks to do it. Did not mean to start a fire storm in this thread. I stated for movies only with a screen where lumen output is not a priority JVC will show the most refined picture out of all projectors that I've owned. I would put the Epson's image quality as very good and at the next tier right below JVC.

No reason for Epson owners to get so frustrated over this opinion. I've owned more Epson projectors than most people in this thread. I would not continue to buy numerous Epson projectors if they were bad products or if I did not like them. But people need to experience Sci-Fi movies in a dark room with an Epson next to a JVC 4 series and 5 series to see how they differ in terms of black levels. The Epson black levels will look grayish in comparison to the JVC 4,5,and 6 series in a dark room. Their images have much more depth when watching Sci-Fi movies or any movies with a large amount of dark scenes in comparison to the Epson 5040.

Last edited by RadiantHT; 03-18-2019 at 01:09 PM.
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post #500 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 12:42 PM
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^I don’t disagree that JVC are the contrast kings of the projector world but if you had never seen the JVC side by side the Epson I doubt too many would say the difference that dramatic, it really takes side by side comparisons to realise this fact. I’ve watched a few sci-fi movies recently and don’t actually feel short changed by the black levels, does this mean they are JVC level..... NO it just means I haven’t seen a side by side comparison to realise the difference.

One thing I am sure of is the sharpness of the image, when feed a good quality Bluray the picture is first rate, pin sharp and full of life.
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I don't understand the comment 4K provides no benefit for front projectors unless at ridiculously close distances. Is it due to many 4K sources using 2K digital intermediates? And if true why are manufacturers pursuing 8K? I can understand the statement for a 55" flat screen but doesn't make sense to me for a 120"+ diagonal image from a true 4K signal (e.g., 4K digital intermediate). What am I missing?
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post #502 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 01:39 PM
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I don't understand the comment 4K provides no benefit for front projectors unless at ridiculously close distances. Is it due to many 4K sources using 2K digital intermediates? And if true why are manufacturers pursuing 8K? I can understand the statement for a 55" flat screen but doesn't make sense to me for a 120"+ diagonal image from a true 4K signal (e.g., 4K digital intermediate). What am I missing?
That’s weird as I don’t see any need for having 4K on a small TV because you generally don’t sit close enough to see benefit of 4K on them where as with a +100” projector screen you are sitting percentage wise much closer.

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post #503 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 02:10 PM
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So what? That doesn't remotely refute the incredible value and bang for the buck of Epson projectors. Keep paying $8000 per projector, I'll keep paying less than $3000. 🙂
I've already stated that I felt Epson gives the best bang for buck.
My mistake, I didn't see that post.

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post #504 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
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Originally Posted by blake18 View Post
I disagree, entry level JVCs will not beat the 5050UB, the difference between Epson and JVC is far overstated. Epson also has much better bulb life, brightness, and bulb cost. Besides, most rooms are simply not dark enough to take advantage of the higher native contrast ratio of the JVCs.
I have used a JVC in a room with white walls and in a room with black walls in a basement. In both scenarios, the b stock JVC entry level four series showed a discernibly better picture quality than the Epson 5040. If you go to the 3000 and up forim and read the Epson vs JVC threads you will see this opinion shared by many others. The only people who continue to refuse this are people who have not owned both and seen both in their own room.
I see, that is interesting, and I wasn't aware of that. Though I will say, with how good the contrast is on the 5040UB, the price, cost of bulbs, and superior brightness, to me, the Epson is still the better. But I will concede the better contrast of the JVCs.

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post #505 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
at $3,000 price point I honestly think an entry-level 4 series b- stock JVC projector would be the better buy unless you're using a larger screen. If you are using a larger screen then JVC's light output is not going to get it done. So the Epson will be a better fit in those scenarios.
I have no problem with this statement.

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But if you are looking for the absolute best image quality in a dark room for movies JVC is King. No more no less.
The only problem I have is, again, it applies only to screens <120", IF you are referring to B-stock low-end JVC's. If you are referring to the upper end JVC's then of course this is the consensus view, but now price is no longer equal.
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post #506 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
I don't understand the comment 4K provides no benefit for front projectors unless at ridiculously close distances. Is it due to many 4K sources using 2K digital intermediates? And if true why are manufacturers pursuing 8K? I can understand the statement for a 55" flat screen but doesn't make sense to me for a 120"+ diagonal image from a true 4K signal (e.g., 4K digital intermediate). What am I missing?
Only reason for 8k - is to sell new gear to consumers.
Myself - I'm pretty happy with epson 3700 on my 150" screen (living room). Only reason I want to upgrade to 4k - is ability to stream ATMOS track from vudu/netflix. As for now I have to use hdfury to trick Roku for atmos sound tracks.
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post #507 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 02:58 PM
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Only reason for 8k - is to sell new gear to consumers.
Myself - I'm pretty happy with epson 3700 on my 150" screen (living room). Only reason I want to upgrade to 4k - is ability to stream ATMOS track from vudu/netflix. As for now I have to use hdfury to trick Roku for atmos sound tracks.
A good 4K image is hard to beat.


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post #508 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
At the $2,500 price point, I stated Epson 5050 would be a smash hit. What caused all these negative comments is when I stated that at $3,000 price point I honestly think an entry-level 4 series b- stock JVC projector would be the better buy unless you're using a larger screen. If you are using a larger screen then JVC's light output is not going to get it done. So the Epson will be a better fit in those scenarios.

But if you are looking for the absolute best image quality in a dark room for movies JVC is King. No more no less.
These b-stock JVC's for $3K. What type of warranty do they come with? When I owned an RS40 a-stock it had a few problems that were hard and expensive to fix and you felt like you could never trust the projector. Are these newer b-stock JVC's trustable or do they have some serious common problems also? If they didn't I would seriously consider one. Also, can you get a Square Trade extended warranty on a b-stock?

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post #509 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 06:02 PM
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This Epson has my attention. BUT , after reading some threads over on AVFORUM, apparently dust blobs can still be an issue. Do any Epson models offer a sealed light path ?
(i live near open fields, hence i have dust issues)

Last edited by cubsfan; 03-18-2019 at 06:41 PM.
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post #510 of 866 Old 03-18-2019, 08:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JackB View Post
These b-stock JVC's for $3K. What type of warranty do they come with? When I owned an RS40 a-stock it had a few problems that were hard and expensive to fix and you felt like you could never trust the projector. Are these newer b-stock JVC's trustable or do they have some serious common problems also? If they didn't I would seriously consider one. Also, can you get a Square Trade extended warranty on a b-stock?
Hi Jack B. I've purchased a few JVC B stock projectors here at AVS with no problems. However, I don't want to give you any potential misinformation. So to answer your questions I would recommend contacting avs sales reps Mike Garrett or Craig Peer to answer your warranty questions on their b-stock JVC projectors for sale.
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