Epson 5050\6050 Rumors? - Page 21 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #601 of 866 Old 03-24-2019, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Wow! So I just looked that projector up and it literally does everything I’ve been wanting in a projector. Native 4K, 4K 60Hz HDR, FI w/ 4K, DLP 3D with no ghosting. DLP sharpness. What the heck?!?!? What’s the catch?? I’m assuming probably lower contrast than the 5040 and upcoming 5050 and maybe not overly bright HDR?? Anyone in here have any experience with this projector? Maybe I should stop wanting and wishing for the 5050 and look into the BenQ

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Sorry, but it is NOT Native 4K. It is a pixel shifter and its native resolution is 1920 x 1080. When you select "Silence" mode, the projector turns off pixel shifting and reverts to its native resolution of 1920 x 1080. BenQ is very deceptive in its description of this projector and repeatedly refers to it as "Native 4K" when in fact, it has a 1920 x 1080 DMD device. See the First Look review here. The reviewer is close to calling it "best in class" in the $1500 and under class, pending calibration and a full review.


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post #602 of 866 Old 03-24-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post
I was considering the HT5550 but as improved as the black levels may be it'll still be nowhere near the 5050UB.


Agreed. 5050UB will be price range black level king. People generally don’t get DLP’s for their blacks, though. Pros and cons.


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post #603 of 866 Old 03-24-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
Sorry, but it is NOT Native 4K. It is a pixel shifter and its native resolution is 1920 x 1080. When you select "Silence" mode, the projector turns off pixel shifting and reverts to its native resolution of 1920 x 1080. BenQ is very deceptive in its description of this projector and repeatedly refers to it as "Native 4K" when in fact, it has a 1920 x 1080 DMD device. See the First Look review here. The reviewer is close to calling it "best in class" in the $1500 and under class, pending calibration and a full review.


Mike


The semantics of 4K these days is that “Native” refers to the chip level and “True” is on screen pixels. CTA, right or wrong, has made that definition.

You are correct that it’s not native. Per CTA, it is “True 4K”. Kind of a headache to keep track of it all tbh. To BenQ’s credit they refer to it in marketing materials at “True 4K”. They used to refer to “Native Resolution: 1080p x 4” but I can see that the listed native resolution on the spec sheet is “4K UHD (3840 x 2160)” which could be misleading to how many micro mirrors there are on the chip.

Tl;dr. I got nothin for ya.


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post #604 of 866 Old 03-24-2019, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
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Originally Posted by Blu-Boy in BKK View Post
Watched John Wick 1&2 in 4K on my 9400 and all I can say is Holy Christ. It was absolutely stunning. Razor sharp, spot on colours and skin tones.
Watched Kong: Skull Island in 3D and it was beautiful. Again, skin tones were perfect (and I’m very sensitive to incorrect skin tones)
Kept 3D level to 0 in order to avoid any ghosting.
Star Trek Discovery on Netflix 4K looked magnificent, particularly the space scenes of which there are many.
I’ve only watched Kong in 1080P but it is amazing with the 4K enhancement and image enhancement 4.

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The only other review I've seen was at AVforums and that review stated much lower native contrast, about 1/3 actually.

Epson only states 2400 lumens as peak output.

My main beef with these PJs is their enormous size, hefty weight, and their poor lamp life.

Poor lamp life?

Even if it only last 3000 hours at only £100 it’s still much cheaper than either the Sony or JVC
Yep, Epson bulbs are a great value, I have over 4000 hours on my first bulb for my 5030UB, and it's still plenty bright, going strong. Plus, I can find genuine OEM bulbs on eBay for around $100-$130. Beat that, Sony and JVC. 🙂

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post #605 of 866 Old 03-24-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BrightBlade View Post
I am trying to figure out if it is worth it to buy the eventually released 5050UB or just go with the 5040UB as my upgrade. I currently have a Panasonic AE-4000U 1080P projector. I have a 106" screen and the projector is 19 feet from the screen. Since my distance is so far, will I get any real improvement with the 5050 over the 5040?
Doubtful due to your screen size. If so, the cost increase to improvement ratio will be terrible.
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post #606 of 866 Old 03-24-2019, 04:47 PM
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Doubtful due to your screen size. If so, the cost increase to improvement ratio will be terrible.
Thanks. That is what I was suspecting, but asking is always a good idea.

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post #607 of 866 Old 03-25-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post
Sorry, but it is NOT Native 4K. It is a pixel shifter and its native resolution is 1920 x 1080. When you select "Silence" mode, the projector turns off pixel shifting and reverts to its native resolution of 1920 x 1080. BenQ is very deceptive in its description of this projector and repeatedly refers to it as "Native 4K" when in fact, it has a 1920 x 1080 DMD device. See the First Look review here. The reviewer is close to calling it "best in class" in the $1500 and under class, pending calibration and a full review.


Mike
Marketing guys, don't you just love them. At least on the side of the Epson's box it clearly state '4K Enhancement' rather than some BS to fool the ill-informed public.

I've viewed quite few projectors in my search for a replacement to my Sony HW45es and one thing I have noticeable is perceived sharpness actual sharpness fool the eye rather well from 3 meters away.
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post #608 of 866 Old 03-25-2019, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Marketing guys, don't you just love them. At least on the side of the Epson's box it clearly state '4K Enhancement' rather than some BS to fool the ill-informed public.

I've viewed quite few projectors in my search for a replacement to my Sony HW45es and one thing I have noticeable is perceived sharpness actual sharpness fool the eye rather well from 3 meters away.
Epson 4K 'enhancement' = 4.15megapixels = good

BenQ HT3550 = 'true 4K' = 8.3 megapixels = double plus good.

The BenQ meets the industry standard for 4k.
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post #609 of 866 Old 03-25-2019, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Epson 4K 'enhancement' = 4.15megapixels = good

BenQ HT3550 = 'true 4K' = 8.3 megapixels = double plus good.

The BenQ meets the industry standard for 4k.
Yes it's throwing 8.3 million pixels on the screen but this is not the same as Native 4K which is 8.3 million (individual) pixels.

I went and tested a bunch of different projectors and ideally I would like to combine the e-shift of these DLPs with the superior contrasts of the Epson. But as it sits I couldn't live with the greys not blacks that DLPs put out, in an ideal world all projectors would have JVC levels of blacks but alas this isn't an ideal world and we must pick the best within our budgets and in this respect the Epson is remarkably good with throwing up a surprisingly sharp image to boot.

I took this only image only 4 ft from the screen and this was from a 1080P Bluray with 4K Enhancement ON.

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post #610 of 866 Old 03-25-2019, 06:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Yes it's throwing 8.3 million pixels on the screen but this is not the same as Native 4K which is 8.3 million (individual) pixels.

I went and tested a bunch of different projectors and ideally I would like to combine the e-shift of these DLPs with the superior contrasts of the Epson. But as it sits I couldn't live with the greys not blacks that DLPs put out, in an ideal world all projectors would have JVC levels of blacks but alas this isn't an ideal world and we must pick the best within our budgets and in this respect the Epson is remarkably good with throwing up a surprisingly sharp image to boot.

I took this only image only 4 ft from the screen and this was from a 1080P Bluray with 4K Enhancement ON.

I will not ever consider DLP projectors for any movie watching. Their contrast levels are hideous in my opinion. What is the point of having a home theater and using a projector incapable of any decent black Level. It renders sci-fi useless. And that is the genre I watch much more than anything.

As much as I hate irises, I will admit that the Epson 5040's iris was the best I've seen. So I'm sure I'll be satisfied with the iris in the 5050ub and will not find it overly distracting.

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post #611 of 866 Old 03-25-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I took this only image only 4 ft from the screen and this was from a 1080P Bluray with 4K Enhancement ON.

... can't embed an image ...
Not to doubt the new 5050 is great, but I can see a lot of artificial processing (excessive sharpening artifacts) on the image.
The same with your post #20 in "Advice: Keep Sony HW40ES or get budget 4K?" thread (sorry, can't post links):
HW45 is showing a pretty sharp image (although most of the frame is out of focus, the focus is on person's cheek & ear which are sharp), 5050 is way oversharpened to my taste.

Maybe that's how you like to run it (totally fine), but it's hard to judge projector's sharpness with these 4K "enhancements" ON.
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Originally Posted by Blu-Boy in BKK View Post
Just did a direct comparison between the HD and UHD versions of OBLIVION. I can confirm that the BD does indeed look better. The BD with 4K enhancement looked sharper, particularly distant vistas. The UHD looked soft by comparison.
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Am I the only one that finds this troubling?
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I'm with you. I'm pretty puzzled why this would be so. It was shot in 4k and 5k digital with a 2k digital intermediate ("DI"), which is pretty common these days. Very few films use a DI with > 2K resolution. It must have been a poor transfer, which is a real shame for such a stunning film...
Judging by the images above, seems like 5050 does apply some heavy (over)sharpening to 1080p content in 4K "enhancement" mode, that's why the 1080p image can be perceived as being sharper than UHD.
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post #613 of 866 Old 03-25-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ArtemF View Post
Judging by the images above, seems like 5050 does apply some heavy (over)sharpening to 1080p content in 4K "enhancement" mode, that's why the 1080p image can be perceived as being sharper than UHD.
The 4K version just looked very muddy, especially distant shots. The HD version looked beautiful, so much better.
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Originally Posted by ArtemF View Post
Not to doubt the new 5050 is great, but I can see a lot of artificial processing (excessive sharpening artifacts) on the image.
The same with your post #20 in "Advice: Keep Sony HW40ES or get budget 4K?" thread (sorry, can't post links):
HW45 is showing a pretty sharp image (although most of the frame is out of focus, the focus is on person's cheek & ear which are sharp), 5050 is way oversharpened to my taste.

Maybe that's how you like to run it (totally fine), but it's hard to judge projector's sharpness with these 4K "enhancements" ON.
The image above I actually posted on another forum to show that with the image enhancement almost turned up to the max you couldn't see pixelation from even 4 foot away.

But the beauty of all this machines is the viewer has the option to set the level of enhancement to their desired level or not at all if they prefer.
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post #615 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 08:03 AM
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Perhaps the announcement and delivery is being delayed for two reasons:

1. To get rid of all 5040 inventory.
2. To decide whether or not they should price it the same as the BenQ 5550. There will be many who choose to save the $500 and go with the 5550 as they are fairly similar when comparing all features.

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Perhaps the announcement and delivery is being delayed for two reasons:

1. To get rid of all 5040 inventory.
2. To decide whether or not they should price it the same as the BenQ 5550. There will be many who choose to save the $500 and go with the 5550 as they are fairly similar when comparing all features.
Benq's contrast will be much, much worse.
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post #617 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 09:03 AM
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Epson 5050\6050 Rumors?

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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
Benq's contrast will be much, much worse.
Sounds like you have had some hands on time with the HT5550. Would love to share notes. What were your thoughts?

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Marketing guys, don't you just love them. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG] At least on the side of the Epson's box it clearly state '4K Enhancement' rather than some BS to fool the ill-informed public.

I've viewed quite few projectors in my search for a replacement to my Sony HW45es and one thing I have noticeable is perceived sharpness actual sharpness fool the eye rather well from 3 meters away.
Epson 4K 'enhancement' = 4.15megapixels = good

BenQ HT3550 = 'true 4K' = 8.3 megapixels = double plus good.

The BenQ meets the industry standard for 4k.
True, but the Epson does end up looking way better. The colors and contrast on the Epson are just head and shoulders above the BenQ. Contrast and accurate color makes a much bigger difference to image quality than amount of pixels.

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Sounds like you have had some hands on time with the HT5550. Would love to share notes. What were your thoughts?
Whats the native and ANSI contrast of the 5550? We have measured numbers for the TW9400 so it should be an easy comparison.
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post #620 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 11:36 AM
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Did someone already post this? PHC's review of the TW-9400 (5050UB). Google Translate required. A fun read.

http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog...is-de-gregory/

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post #621 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 01:21 PM
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FYI!
I should be getting the projector next week and I will post my quick review compared to my 5010UB on 160" Stewart grey screen 16:9 with lots of ambient light in the living room.

Last edited by caesar1969; 03-26-2019 at 03:48 PM.
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True, but the Epson does end up looking way better. The colors and contrast on the Epson are just head and shoulders above the BenQ. Contrast and accurate color makes a much bigger difference to image quality than amount of pixels.
I guess you've compared them side by side?
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post #623 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 03:56 PM
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True, but the Epson does end up looking way better. The colors and contrast on the Epson are just head and shoulders above the BenQ. Contrast and accurate color makes a much bigger difference to image quality than amount of pixels.
I guess you've compared them side by side?
I've seen many of the $2-$3k DLPs, and their contrast and colors are nowhere near the higher end Epsons. You will find this claim to be very consistent among many AV enthusiasts and professionals.

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I've seen many of the $2-$3k DLPs, and their contrast and colors are nowhere near the higher end Epsons. You will find this claim to be very consistent among many AV enthusiasts and professionals.
OK, so you haven't compared them side by side.
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post #625 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 05:03 PM
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I've seen many of the $2-$3k DLPs, and their contrast and colors are nowhere near the higher end Epsons. You will find this claim to be very consistent among many AV enthusiasts and professionals.
OK, so you haven't compared them side by side.
Nope, but I've seen plenty of high end DLP and 3LCD comparisons to tell you that high end Epsons will beat out any DLP. I can guarantee you anyone that does do a side by side will absolutely enjoy the Epson 5040UB or 5050UB more than any DLP. 😉 As I said, Contrast and Color accuracy/brightness are the top two factors in image quality, and that is well substantiated.

Oh right, another thing that puts Epson way ahead of DLP, is brightness uniformity, which is above 94% on the Epsons, and close to 60-70% on most DLPs. This makes a HUGE difference in overall image quality. You have yet to refute a single point I've made.

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post #626 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 05:27 PM
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Nope, but I've seen plenty of high end DLP and 3LCD comparisons to tell you that high end Epsons will beat out any DLP. I can guarantee you anyone that does do a side by side will absolutely enjoy the Epson 5040UB or 5050UB more than any DLP. 😉 As I said, Contrast and Color accuracy/brightness are the top two factors in image quality, and that is well substantiated.

Oh right, another thing that puts Epson way ahead of DLP, is brightness uniformity, which is above 94% on the Epsons, and close to 60-70% on most DLPs. This makes a HUGE difference in overall image quality. You have yet to refute a single point I've made.
You made your opinions clear, and that's OK, but you stated earlier:


Quote:
True, but the Epson does end up looking way better. The colors and contrast on the Epson are just head and shoulders above the BenQ.
Which implied that you'd compared them, but you refuted that implication above.

I've compared my W1070 against a HC5040UB (on different screens) using the same content, but with the 5040UB using 4K enhancements...and IMHO, the colour and contrast was better on the W1070. The 5040UB showed blacker blacks (and undoubtedly had a higher CR) but only because they were crushed and all detail lost.

So we both have different opinions based upon our perceptions...go figure.
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post #627 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 05:57 PM
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Nope, but I've seen plenty of high end DLP and 3LCD comparisons to tell you that high end Epsons will beat out any DLP. I can guarantee you anyone that does do a side by side will absolutely enjoy the Epson 5040UB or 5050UB more than any DLP. 😉 As I said, Contrast and Color accuracy/brightness are the top two factors in image quality, and that is well substantiated.

Oh right, another thing that puts Epson way ahead of DLP, is brightness uniformity, which is above 94% on the Epsons, and close to 60-70% on most DLPs. This makes a HUGE difference in overall image quality. You have yet to refute a single point I've made.
You made your opinions clear, and that's OK, but you stated earlier:


Quote:
True, but the Epson does end up looking way better. The colors and contrast on the Epson are just head and shoulders above the BenQ.
Which implied that you'd compared them, but you refuted that implication above.

I've compared my W1070 against a HC5040UB (on different screens) using the same content, but with the 5040UB using 4K enhancements...and IMHO, the colour and contrast was better on the W1070. The 5040UB showed blacker blacks (and undoubtedly had a higher CR) but only because they were crushed and all detail lost.

So we both have different opinions based upon our perceptions...go figure.
It's really not opinion, and the Epson does NOT have crushed blacks, that's utter nonsense. Epson 5040ub or 5050ub, objectively, have better contrast and colors than really any DLPs below $5-7k. For a DLP to beat Epson, you need to go up to 3 chip DLP, which gets very expensive, but even then, it won't win in contrast.

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post #628 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by blake18 View Post
It's really not opinion, and the Epson does NOT have crushed blacks, that's utter nonsense. Epson 5040ub or 5050ub, objectively, have better contrast and colors than really any DLPs below $5-7k. For a DLP to beat Epson, you need to go up to 3 chip DLP, which gets very expensive, but even then, it won't win in contrast.
I dunno, see post 609, above. That's what I was seeing, a classic case of crushed blacks.
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post #629 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I dunno, see post 609, above. That's what I was seeing, a classic case of crushed blacks.
Dun,

Don't bother arguing with Blake as it's obvious he's too young to have had much experience.

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post #630 of 866 Old 03-26-2019, 07:31 PM
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Dun,



Don't bother arguing with Blake as it's obvious he's too young to have had much experience.


Strike two!! First Doom now Blake.

Hahaha

Well the good news ya’ll is that I will have the 5050UB and the HT5550 up side by side next week. Can’t wait for the shootout!!! These seem like two fierce fighters from the 3LCD and DLP camps! Gotta love competition

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