Epson 5050\6050 Rumors? - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 10:32 AM
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1) Someone should make a 5050 official thread since these are actually out in the wild
2) Are people paying MSRP for these? If anyone wants shoot me any deals they've come across via PM that'd be nifty! Couldn't remember if Epson allowed dealers to do lower pricing.
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post #812 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 10:39 AM
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I guess nobody knows how this compares to the Sony 295 yet?

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post #813 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JAR5197 View Post
Planning on getting 5050 soon.

Can the group please give me some ideas for a good mount that I won't have to take out a second mortgage for?

Nine foot ceiling so won't need a long extension.

Thanks


I just got the 12” vantage point mount from Amazon for $60. Infinitely adjustable and solid. It’s a unique mount. Would recommend 10/10

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post #814 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 11:33 AM
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I contacted Epson about my anamorphic lens. They noted that the 6040 and 6050 will support the lens. But damn, they are expensive! If they were native 4k it might be an easier pill to swallow.

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post #815 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
I just got the 12” vantage point mount from Amazon for $60. Infinitely adjustable and solid. It’s a unique mount. Would recommend 10/10
Thanks scottyroo
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post #816 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
The motion handling on my Epson 5040 and my Sony 45ES were both excellent. To be honest, my most recent projector with very bad motion handling was my JVC RS520. It was so bad that I could not watch football on it.


There’s a problem here because I’ve played with both the 5040 and the 45ES and neither have “excellent” motion handling.

I would say the Sony is OK— I might even say good when you consider it’s core tech is based around LCD. We probably need a scale for this stuff. But the 5040 has mediocre motion handling. Again, this might not bother a lot of people used to LCD sample and hold but for someone like me who is used to a pulse type display it sticks out.

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post #817 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
There’s a problem here because I’ve played with both the 5040 and the 45ES and neither have “excellent” motion handling.

I would say the Sony is OK— I might even say good when you consider it’s core tech is based around LCD. We probably need a scale for this stuff. But the 5040 has mediocre motion handling. Again, this might not bother a lot of people used to LCD sample and hold but for someone like me who is used to a pulse type display it sticks out.
Totally understandable. I feel the same way when I see people express BenQ projectors having good contrast for the money. When their native contrast is close to 1000:1 which is abysmal. Sanyo TVs from Walmart have a similar contrast spec. Yet no one says they have strong black levels for the money.

Last edited by RadiantHT; 04-03-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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post #818 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
Totally understandable. I feel the same way when I see you people express BenQ projectors having good contrast for the money. When their contrast is utterly abysmal.


You people?

Haha! Man, you’re a trip.

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post #819 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 12:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
You people?

Haha! Man, you’re a trip.
Typo due to google voice text while driving. It was fixed within 30 seconds of posting. You are quick.
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Last edited by RadiantHT; 04-03-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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post #820 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
I just got the 12” vantage point mount from Amazon for $60. Infinitely adjustable and solid. It’s a unique mount. Would recommend 10/10
Has the HC5050 landed?
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post #821 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LVS View Post
Has the HC5050 landed?


Let the fun begin

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
I just got the 12” vantage point mount from Amazon for $60. Infinitely adjustable and solid. It’s a unique mount. Would recommend 10/10
Double quote because avsforum was timing out. Apologies...
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post #823 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
Typo due to google voice text while driving. It was fixed within 30 seconds of posting. You are quick.


Quicker than most.

But you see how I have a hard time taking your criticisms seriously when you laud something about a projector that is an acknowledged weak point of the tech? 3LCD does a LOT well. Two things it doesn’t: pixel gap and motion blur. The pixel gap issue has been somewhat addressed with E shift. While you can combat blur with MEMC, not everyone likes the effect it produces.

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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Quicker than most.

But you see how I have a hard time taking your criticisms seriously when you laud something about a projector that is an acknowledged weak point of the tech? 3LCD does a LOT well. Two things it doesn’t: pixel gap and motion blur. The pixel gap issue has been somewhat addressed with E shift. While you can combat blur with MEMC, not everyone likes the effect it produces.
When someone is looking for a projector and they list motion handling as a top priority, you will see I always recommend a dlp projector. Other than that your criticism is warranted. But by that same token, I can't take your opinions seriously when you make comments as if ultra-low contrast dlp projectors have above-average/ acceptable black levels when dlp projectors clearly have below average specs in that area.

To be honest I'm still not happy with the pixel gap on any LCD projector, which is why I strongly prefer LCOS in terms of pure image quality. It has a smooth look that LCD just can't replicate.
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Last edited by RadiantHT; 04-03-2019 at 01:49 PM.
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post #825 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigma722 View Post
1) Someone should make a 5050 official thread since these are actually out in the wild
2) Are people paying MSRP for these? If anyone wants shoot me any deals they've come across via PM that'd be nifty! Couldn't remember if Epson allowed dealers to do lower pricing.
No need for relying on PMs for pricing as someone will surely start a 5050UB pricing thread in the appropriate sub-forum:

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post #826 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 02:28 PM
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Impressed with the 5050 so far!

As expected, good combination of brightness, contrast and colors. Getting used to 1080x2 shifting since I sit fairly close to 160” screen. I do notice reduced resolution on text like Shield TV menu icons. However lens focus is sharp.

Watching Planet Earth 2 on 4K Blu Ray. I immediately noticed default setting of 8 on Dynamic Range was a horrible way to watch HDR. I cranked up to 1 or 2 to get a bright image. Some details lost in highlights but it actually looks pretty good now. I need to do more testing but I’m bugged about having to manually engage HDR settings each time. Auto tone mapping that I found on recent BenQs is missed. In episode 1, “Islands” there are several scenes of panning on distant trees. There is some judder that the 5050 has.

Manual HDR settings and Fine details in 4K motion handling are the only thing I have to complain about.
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post #827 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
When someone is looking for a projector and they list motion handling as a top priority, you will see I always recommend a dlp projector. Other than that your criticism is warranted. But by that same token, I can't take your opinions seriously when you make comments as if ultra-low contrast dlp projectors have above-average/ acceptable black levels when dlp projectors clearly have below average specs in that area.



To be honest I'm still not happy with the pixel gap on any LCD projector, which is why I strongly prefer LCOS in terms of pure image quality. It has a smooth look that LCD just can't replicate.


Fair enough but I’m always conscious of PRICE. The Sony 45ES is the only projector that can be considered ultra high contrast anywhere near the $2000 price point. The 5040ub spent most of it’s life at or above $2500. The new 5050ub looks to be firmly at $3k. And it’s important to note that none of those are 4K. The rest of the JVCs and Sonys are thousands more.

When you’re talking below $2000– hell, below $1500– DLP and (lower contrast) 3LCD is what you get. So I should just say that every DLP/3LCD is the same below $2k? We should draw no distinctions and just lump them all together as awful? You keep saying how DLP has failed to improve it’s black levels— well why the hell hasn’t Sony and JVC found a way to reduce prices? If I could buy a 4K wobulation LCOS for $1500 I’d probably own that.

Again, we’re off topic and derailing this thread but when I read your post that the 5040ub has “excellent” motion handling I was COMPELLED to say something because it’s simply not true. And that has nothing to do with the 5040 being too low a price— $500 projectors have better motion than the Epson. That’s just something it doesn’t do well. Not a knock as the 5040ub does plenty well— but not that.

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post #828 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Impressed with the 5050 so far!

As expected, good combination of brightness, contrast and colors. Getting used to 1080x2 shifting since I sit fairly close to 160” screen. I do notice reduced resolution on text like Shield TV menu icons. However lens focus is sharp.

Watching Planet Earth 2 on 4K Blu Ray. I immediately noticed default setting of 8 on Dynamic Range was a horrible way to watch HDR. I cranked up to 1 or 2 to get a bright image. Some details lost in highlights but it actually looks pretty good now. I need to do more testing but I’m bugged about having to manually engage HDR settings each time. Auto tone mapping that I found on recent BenQs is missed. In episode 1, “Islands” there are several scenes of panning on distant trees. There is some judder that the 5050 has.

Manual HDR settings and Fine details in 4K motion handling are the only thing I have to complain about.
On the manual hdr and settings, you sure the shield is set to 2020 output? pretty sure that should engage HDR mode and then from what Ive gathered you can store your defaults
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post #829 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 02:37 PM
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I just got caught up on this thread after a couple months of not reading.. Here are some comments:

Every projector has it's purpose, and if it fits your needs, there is nothing wrong with using it.

The 6050 isn't exactly identical to the 5050 other than color. It will most likely come with the extra lamp like the 6040 did, and have anamorphic modes. That may not fit everyone's needs, but if you do have an anamorphic lens, you would need either an overpriced Oppo player (assuming you don't already have one), or something like a Lumagen Pro, both of which will cost you a LOT of money compared to the projector price. For people using bigger scope screens that want to watch 4k HDR, a lens is a huge upgrade for the 30% increase in brightness over zooming, and the 6050 would be a fantastic interim projector to help offset the cost of an A-Lens if slowly upgrading your theater...

For those skimming the thread, they weren't comparing $1000 DLP's to the Epson 5050, they were comparing the $2500 4k DLP's, which is a valid comparison pricewise. However, what you gain in motion, brightness, and sharpness with DLP, you lose in lens shift, power zoom/focus/shift with memories, contrast, black floor, color uniformity, and of course RBE. Again, if your main goal is motion and brightness, and you have flexibility in where you mount the projector (at a very specific height and dead center on the screen), you aren't RBE sensitive, and are only running 16:9, the remaining tradeoffs are fairly even. I loved my first DLP projector, I wasn't RBE sensitive, and at the time I didn't need any of those extra features. These days I would have wanted them though, so a DLP was not an option for me.

I had a Sony hw40es, and while I loved it, just like a DLP the 45es is a major feature downgrade from the Epson, with the only benefit being motion and a tiny edge in contrast. You lose 4k capability (makes a HUGE difference on larger screens), all the lens/shift/zoom memories for those with CIH scope screens, and at 1080p, the motion in the Epson is fairly close to the Sony. The 5040 was only a couple hundred more on street price, and I imagine in a few months the street price of the 5050 will drop into the $2500 range as well, making the Sony not really a comparable downgrade IMHO.

As a 5040 owner, if I hadn't already ordered a JVC native 4k projector, I would have upgraded to the 5050 JUST for the 18gbps HDMI. I have issues all the time with the 10gbps limitation. Netflix 4k isn't compatible on some players (Shield plays it at 30p so it is OK), and PSVue is 12 bit color 60p but only 1080p, but this means you have to set your source to 1080p, and then Netflix and Amazon don't detect you can play 4k and don't present the 4k content at all. If you set your source to 4k 8 bit 60p, you get horrible banding in PSVue, and if you set your source at 12 bit 30p 4k, PSVue starts hitching horribly. One of MY big needs is a "set it and forget it" feature set, and the 5040 bothered me every time I went to switch apps.

I did end up going with the JVC, but I can't knock my Epson at all, so the 5050 was a consideration. Tone mapping is a huge feature for 4k HDR, especially if your screen is larger than 120". I have heard that Epson improved their tone map for HDR with the 5050, but it really needs to be dynamic as so many different sources are so different, and one tone map or custom luminance curve just doesn't work for all content. If your only 4k HDR sources are on blu ray, a 5050 with a Panny 820 blu ray player would be an EXCELLENT combination.

Frankly, I believe that most people who compared the JVCs to the Epsons side by side with all other things equal and both projectors fully calibrated would be hard pressed to see any significant difference.

My only complaint was the power supply failure on the Epson. Epson was quick to get me a replacement, but it was disappointing to have that failure with only a few hundred hours on the projector. I hope they have that worked out now on the 5050.

The refurb deal on the 5040 is great IF they have any in stock (they don't right now), but if someone is looking for a great deal on a fairly low usage 5040, my JVC should be shipping this week, so it is likely there will be a 5040 for sale very soon
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post #830 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 02:42 PM
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Epson 5050\6050 Rumors?

Long overdue. 18gbps. Damn shame it takes a $1,200 upgrade over the 4010 just to get it.


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Long overdue. 18gbps. Damn shame it takes a $1,300 upgrade over the 4010 just to get it.



Can you test the input lag?
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post #832 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 02:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Fair enough but I’m always conscious of PRICE. The Sony 45ES is the only projector that can be considered ultra high contrast anywhere near the $2000 price point. The 5040ub spent most of it’s life at or above $2500. The new 5050ub looks to be firmly at $3k. And it’s important to note that none of those are 4K. The rest of the JVCs and Sonys are thousands more.

When you’re talking below $2000– hell, below $1500– DLP and (lower contrast) 3LCD is what you get. So I should just say that every DLP/3LCD is the same below $2k? We should draw no distinctions and just lump them all together as awful? You keep saying how DLP has failed to improve it’s black levels— well why the hell hasn’t Sony and JVC found a way to reduce prices? If I could buy a 4K wobulation LCOS for $1500 I’d probably own that.

Again, we’re off topic and derailing this thread but when I read your post that the 5040ub has “excellent” motion handling I was COMPELLED to say something because it’s simply not true. And that has nothing to do with the 5040 being too low a price— $500 projectors have better motion than the Epson. That’s just something it doesn’t do well. Not a knock as the 5040ub does plenty well— but not that.
Many of your posts seem to constantly harp on the fact that your budget seems to be $1,500 or below. However, you must keep in mind that this is the below $3,000 section. Not everyone is going to have a lower budget constrained to $1500 and below. Also, not everyone is going to have a budget between $2,000-$2,999. Posts are needed which explain the advantages of projectors in both price ranges.

Last edited by RadiantHT; 04-03-2019 at 02:48 PM.
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post #833 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 02:48 PM
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Can you test the input lag?


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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Quicker than most.

But you see how I have a hard time taking your criticisms seriously when you laud something about a projector that is an acknowledged weak point of the tech? 3LCD does a LOT well. Two things it doesn’t: pixel gap and motion blur. The pixel gap issue has been somewhat addressed with E shift. While you can combat blur with MEMC, not everyone likes the effect it produces.
I think you are being too hard on 3LCD. I have had a 3LCD Epson for 9 years now and while I am thinking about going to a 4K pj my Epson still looks really good when I play a bluray.
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post #835 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ezelkow1 View Post
On the manual hdr and settings, you sure the shield is set to 2020 output? pretty sure that should engage HDR mode and then from what Ive gathered you can store your defaults


Yes it is set to 2020 output.

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post #836 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RadiantHT View Post
Many of your posts seem to constantly harp on the fact that your budget seems to be $1,500 or below. However, you must keep in mind that this is the below $3,000 section. Not everyone is going to have a lower budget constrained to $1500 and below. Also, not everyone is going to have a budget between $2,000-$2,999. Posts are needed which explain the advantages of projectors in both price ranges.


At this point you’re putting words in my mouth. I’ve never said what MY budget is because I don’t have a budget.

And that’s not what you do. What you do is **** on everything that isn’t a Sony 45ES or an Epson 5040ub with no context paid to price or application. You’ve criticized me for saying positive things about projectors you’ve deemed inferior while, in the next breath, lauded an area of performance on another model that is known to be one of the weakest in the industry in that specific area. That reads less like observation and a lot more like bias.

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post #837 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 03:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
At this point you’re putting words in my mouth. I’ve never said what MY budget is because I don’t have a budget.

And that’s not what you do. What you do is **** on everything that isn’t a Sony 45ES or an Epson 5040ub with no context paid to price or application. You’ve criticized me for saying positive things about projectors you’ve deemed inferior while, in the next breath, lauded an area of performance on another model that is known to be one of the weakest in the industry in that specific area. That reads less like observation and a lot more like bias.

And what am I biased on? A certain tech? A certain price range? As I've stated before, you continue to harp on price. When I have suggested the 5040 or the 45ES. they were in the original posters budget range. And when all specs are taken into consideration, they are usually the best in their price ranges.

Last edited by RadiantHT; 04-03-2019 at 03:50 PM.
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post #838 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 03:47 PM
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I think you are being too hard on 3LCD. I have had a 3LCD Epson for 9 years now and while I am thinking about going to a 4K pj my Epson still looks really good when I play a bluray.


I’m sure it does. And to be clear: I was not saying the 5040ub has poor picture quality. I wouldn’t say that because I don’t believe that. What I was taking issue with is Radiant claiming the 5040 has “excellent” motion performance. I was taking issue with his depiction of this one singular aspect of it’s image performance that is definitely not excellent. In fact, I can’t think of a single projector at the 5040ub’s price that performs worse in this specific area which I’m pretty sure makes it the opposite of “excellent”. That would be like me saying the BenQ Ht3550 has OLED like contrast or that the JVC NX9 is affordable. These are statements all right but they’re not true statements.

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post #839 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 03:59 PM
 
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"Especially now that HDR10 is the standard. Which is why I put SO much emphasis on HDR tone mapping in my review.

It’s not going to be that high. My eyeball guesstimate when comparing head to head with an HT2050A is native contrast will fall just behind the best 1080p models but the addition of HDR, the Dynamic Black with iris, and the awesome color volume of the HT3550 pushes it’s dynamic contrast or perceived contrast well beyond what that model is capable of.

Everyone needs to remember that the Epson 4010, a projector praised for it’s contrast/blacks, measures the same native contrast as an HT2050A"

-Sage

So that BenQ model at 1000:1 native contrast falls right back behind a Sony 45ES at 7,000:1?Numerous people have praised the Epson 4010 for having good black levels. None of those statements are true.

Last edited by RadiantHT; 04-03-2019 at 04:02 PM.
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post #840 of 866 Old 04-03-2019, 03:59 PM
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And what am I biased on? A certain tech? A certain price range? As I've stated before, you continue to harp on price. When I have suggested the 5040 or the 45ES. they were in the original posters budget range. And when all specs are taken into consideration, they are usually the best in their price ranges.


Really?

Look, I’m actually regretting I got into this with you. After Dave posted his (very solid) advice I told myself just to stay away from this issue. We’ve long had people on the forum that just throw hyperbole out there and wear their bias on their sleeve. It’s no big deal. You have VERY strong opinions and that’s 100% ok. But sometimes your posts just rub me the wrong way because of the way in which you say it.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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