0.47" Vs 0.66' DLP chip (UHD51A VsUHD65: I'm not the original author for the post) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 47 Old 07-17-2018, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1
0.47" Vs 0.66' DLP chip (UHD51A VsUHD65: I'm not the original author for the post)

Comparison Chips pseudo-4K 0.66 "vs 0.47"


After going crazy looking for information about the new pseudo-4K projectors that are coming out recently and in view of the fact that the information that exists is very diffuse, I have decided to make a brief compilation of the data that I have found so far. I hope the post will be useful.

INTRODUCTION

For years I have been dreaming of setting up my own home theater, but it was not until a few months ago when that idea began to take shape and finally, if everything goes well, I can build a semi-formal room.

A couple of months ago, once we made the decision to set up an area of ​​the house to enjoy the cinema at home, it was when I began to investigate the subject, as I looked for more information I had doubts: how to condition the room, What music equipment, what screen and especially what projector to buy? ...

After much reading I decided to purchase the projector first and then depending on the characteristics of the same decide on the screen and 5.1 equipment that would accompany it.

WHY A 4K PROJECTOR?

Before starting, I must point out that although it is not entirely correct, to simplify when in the post I speak of 4k or UHD I refer to the resolution 3840x2160 pixels.

In the month of November, which is when I started researching the subject, I was almost determined to acquire a FullHD (1080p) projector, since it always seemed to me that the 4k theme was pure marketing. On a TV like the one I have of 50 "I did not see the 4k sense given the viewing distance and size of the screen, but the size of the screen that a projector gives has nothing to do with that of a TV, in 120 "The difference between FullHD and UHD begins to be noticeable. The more I researched the more I got the urge to enjoy the 4k and the benefits of HDR. In addition every time there is more 4k content, see UHD Blu-Rays, Netflix 4K, Amazon Prime 4k and even there are already fiber operators that start offering some 4k content (especially football).

4k native projectors are prohibitive, at least I do not get the budget for those machines, so I started to be interested in the "pseudo-4K" projectors that are more economical and using the "pixel shift" method they duplicate or quadruple the resolution native to the projector resulting in the human eye perceiving a 4K resolution.

At this point, I observed that most projectors of this type used the 0.66 "chip from Texas Instruments with prices above 2,000 euros in all cases, until the recent appearance of the 0.47" chip.

PROJECTORS 0.66 "vs 0.47" - WHAT TO CHOOSE?

On December 5, Texas Instruments (TI) announced the new DLP 4K UHD 0.47 "XPR chips (DLP470TP and DLP470TE).

In the announcement of IT they indicated that these new chips were much more compact and have a lower consumption.

On the one hand, the DLP470TP supports up to 1,500 lumens and is designed for mobile devices, SmartTV and pico projectors.

DLP470TP 0.47 'Optimized for ultra-compact projectors, Max 1500Lm. With a smaller package and less care the masked, (BenQ W1700)

0.47 'DLP470TE optimized for compact size projectors, Max 4000Lm. With a more careful encapsulation with better thermal dissipation, (JVC LX-UH1)

0.67 'DLP660TE optimized for medium size projectors, Max 5000Lm. With a larger encapsulation to dissipate the 5000Lm., (Optoma UHD65)

The DLP660 has a resolution of 2560x1600 and always has to be scaling up to 4K and down to FullHD then it will never have the grid perfectly sharp neither in 2K nor 4K,

The DLP470 has a native resolution of 1920x1080 and only scales upwards for 4K UHD, but it is NOT compatible with 4096x2160, then in 2K it will have the "sharper" grid than the DLP660.

It has two versions of encapsulation a compact "TP" of smaller size optimized for Ultra-Compact projectors with a maximum of 1500Lumens, (then the BenQ W1700 makes it work forced)
or the 2200Lumens are NOT real and masking to be more compact NO this care

The other type of encapsulation "TE" is of the same type as the one of 0.67 'having a bigger surface that allows a thermal dissipation for 4000Lumens and a more optimized masking of the light.

0.66 "XPR chip (DLP660TE)

It is known that this chip has 2716x1528 active micromirrors and through the 2x system eshift obtains 8.3 million pixels (UHD) on the screen.

PROS


IMAGE: Offers a sharper image than 0.47 "by having a greater number of active mirrors (native resolution of 2716x1528 pixels)

CONTRAST: Initially it seems to offer a better contrast than 0.47". However, in a published comparison, the Benq W1700 has the most vibrant colors and the deepest image of the Optoma UHD60.

CONTRAS


NO 3D: It does not offer the possibility of viewing 3D content. Actually there are very high-end projectors that do offer it with this chip but we are talking about inaccessible projectors for the general public.

HDR: The first tests comparing the Benq W1700 with the Optoma UHD60 indicate that the 0.47 "chip has better HDR

PRICE: The 0.47" projectors are cheaper than those incorporating the 0.66 "chip However, with the announcement of the new 2018 models, brands such as Optoma have lowered the price of models such as 550x or UHD60, being at prices similar to the new 0.47 ".

PROJECTORS <2,000 euros WITH CHIP 0.66 "


- Optoma UHD550X: € 2,400. Current offer: € 1,500

- Optoma UHD60: € 2,900. Current offer: € 2,000

- Acer M550: 2,000 euros

- Vivitek HK2288: $ 2,000. Difficult distribution in Spain


0.47 "XPR chip (TP)

The 0.47" chip has 1920x1080 active micromirrors and through the 4x eshift system obtains 8.3 million pixels (UHD) on the screen.

PROS


YES 3D: Offers the possibility of viewing 3D content in 1080p. For those that 3D is an indispensable feature, there is no doubt about which chip to go to.

HDR: The first tests comparing the Benq W1700 with the Optoma UHD60 indicate that the 0.47 "chip has better HDR

COLORS: In a published comparison, the Benq W1700 has the most vibrant colors and the deepest image of the Optoma UHD60.

PRICE: The 0.47 "chip projectors are starting at prices of around 1,500 euros, a price much lower than those with the 0.66 chip.

CONTRAS


IMAGE: It offers a slightly less sharp image than 0.66 "because it has a lower number of active mirrors

CONTRAST: Initially it seems to offer a lower contrast and blacks less deep than 0.66". However, he has yet to confirm.

GRAY EDGE: The first analyzed models of the Benq w1700 seem to have a problem with the unused outer pixels that generate an outer gray line. However, this problem has yet to be confirmed if it occurs in the final units that are to be distributed and if they also have it in the rest of the brands. It is confirmed that you have this problem.

PROJECTORS <2,000 euros WITH CHIP 0.47 "


- Benq W1700 (HT2550 in USA): Estimated price € 1,500

- Optoma UHD50: US $ 1,699.00 - Pending price confirmation and date of departure in Spain

- Viewsonic PX-7277-4K: A French forum indicates that it will be published in the first quarter of 2018 at a price of € 1299, but it is still pending to confirm this price and if it will have distribution in Spain.

COMPARATIVE

The first Review of the BenQ HT2550 (W1700) has just been published (11/01/2018) in which it is compared with the Optoma UHD60. Conclusions of the author of the video:

- Sharper image in the Optoma UHD60.

- Better HDR performance in the Benq despite having more lumens the Optoma. The Benq produces almost the same amount of brightness and colors. To enjoy the full potential of the Benq HDR recommends the use of a screen less than 120 "

- Contrary to what you might think initially, the Benq W1700 colors are more vibrant and the image has more depth than that has the Optoma.

- it is confirmed that the Benq W1700 goes to market with the problem of edge light greyish (5:30 minutes of video) confirmed that looks quite especially the smaller the size of the screen..

CONCLUSIONS

in summary , gives the sensation that the chip 0.66 "will be used from now for premium projectors leaving the 0.47" for the cheapest "4k" projectors.

If you are not interested in 3D or in a hurry to buy the projector looks like a great opportunity to buy a model 2017 chip 0.66 "now that are good value. However, we should analyze the preferences of each.

If you are interested in 3D the inveitable option would be a 0.47 "chip projector among those that will come out in the coming months.

If you are not in a hurry to acquire the projector I think it would be best to wait for reviews and comparisons of the new projectors with 0.47 "and see how the market evolves, because this has only just begun ...

I have made this summary thinking about the new user or who wants to make the leap to this world of 4k projectors and that a large investment (<2,000 €) can not be allowed. Obviously, if we talk about higher ranges all this changes.

Please indicate if there is any wrong information. I will incorporate all the new information that you mention or that is appearing about it.

regards
gvshyamk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 47 Old 10-28-2018, 10:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,906
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2171 Post(s)
Liked: 1097
I ran across this thread in looking for information comparing .47 to .66 DLP chips on performance in a straight forward 1080p application.

I’m a little surprised no one posted to it and it didn’t have high views.

I’m not well versed in all the particulars of this change in chips. Am I wrong in assuming it was cost driven? And would this be the reason I’m seeing manufactures retiring some of the 1080p projectors and replacing them with new models that don’t seem to be overall any better?

Plus I’ll give the thread a bump for anyone that missed it.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #3 of 47 Old 10-28-2018, 09:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Dongguan, CH
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked: 92
I guess this could be too technical for some & most just want the best picture, good blacks, nice contrast PJ that's a bang for buck.


interesting read though if your into deep deep AVS.

XGimi CC, XGimi Z6, UKCSIS, Vmai M200 Pico
Xbox One S, LG SH4

Last edited by wheelee; 10-30-2018 at 08:09 PM.
wheelee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 47 Old 10-29-2018, 06:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked: 587
It's all been discussed over and over in other threads. The .47 1080p XPR (the 4K function) chip is more cost effective, but also has the added advantage of being able to show 3D. The other chips are bigger with more than 1920x1080 pixels. If they were to shut off the pixels except for 1920x1080, the image would become smaller and therefore would not project properly without some kind of separate optical light channel and lens. While the .66 chip is a bit sharper and better contrast, the .47 can do more, but with somewhat less contrast, and can be implemented in a smaller, easier to install case.
3DBob is offline  
post #5 of 47 Old 10-29-2018, 10:39 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DaGamePimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,366
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 664 Post(s)
Liked: 679
The native resolution difference is obvious between the two, .66 is the way to go if you are going to buy an XPR based unit (unless you want 3D, as noted).

- Jason
Calibratedlumens likes this.

HT = Epson 5050ub @133" / Marantz SR6013 7.3.4 Atmos / B&K 5000 II amp / Boston VR2/VR12/CR67 speakers / Rythmik 12" x2 / CV 15" / Panasonic UB820
Media Room = Sony 65x930e / Denon x3300 /Klipsch speakers /Velodyne subs /Sony x700 /PS4 Pro + PSVR/WiiU/PS3/360/Wii/ 2080 TI - 9900K PC / Multi-Arcade / Virtual Pinball TRE45ON
DaGamePimp is offline  
post #6 of 47 Old 10-29-2018, 11:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,906
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2171 Post(s)
Liked: 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post
The native resolution difference is obvious between the two, .66 is the way to go if you are going to buy an XPR based unit (unless you want 3D, as noted).

- Jason
XPR aside what chip will work better in a straightforward 1080p projector? and is the .47 the least expensive?

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #7 of 47 Old 10-29-2018, 01:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
XPR aside what chip will work better in a straightforward 1080p projector? and is the .47 the least expensive?
If you don't want or need 4K, you can an excellent 1080p projector that does excellent 3D for between $500-$800 these days. Search through www.projectorcentral.com. They have a lot of info regarding both the rated best 1080p 3D projectors and 4K projectors.
3DBob is offline  
post #8 of 47 Old 10-29-2018, 01:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,550
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3908 Post(s)
Liked: 3080
@bud16415 , the smaller 0.47" DMDs are less expensive than the better performing larger DMDs in both XPR and non-XPR configurations. In most cases the smaller DMDs are used in lower cost projectors with fewer features and the larger DMDs in more expensive projectors with more features. When TI announced the 0.47" XPR DMDs they stated the following:

Quote:
The chipsets span a wide range of power, size, brightness and performance levels to help designers achieve any 4K UHD end-equipment objective. For more information about display offerings in TI's DLP Products portfolio, see http://www.ti.com/DLP4kExpansion-pr.

The DLP470TP is the most compact 4K UHD solution from DLP Products, and is optimized for size and power. Measuring 17 mm by 24.5 mm and supporting brightness levels up to 1,500 lumens, the DLP470TP can deliver 4K UHD quality to equipment such as mobile smart TVs and pico projectors.

The DLP470TE is optimized for projectors needing over 1,500 lumens. This chipset is in a larger package, 22 mm by 32 mm, which enables it to withstand the heat generated by brightness levels up to 4,000 lumens.

The DLP660TE is the most powerful of the three 4K UHD chipsets. This digital micromirror device (DMD) is designed to enable projection applications up to 5,000 lumens.

On larger and brighter projectors vendors like Barco and Panasonic have instead used the regular 0.97" WQXGA DMD, with the optical actuator to shift pixels.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #9 of 47 Old 10-29-2018, 02:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,906
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2171 Post(s)
Liked: 1097
Thanks @Dave in Green , What you are saying then if someone is looking for strictly a 1080p projector and there is an older DLP projector still available with the .66 DMD it is likely going to perform better in regards to the DMD than a newer model where the manufacture has switched to a .47 DMD in the design? That is assuming all other things equal.

Is there an easy way to know what size DMD a projector is running as I don’t normally see it listed in the specs?

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #10 of 47 Old 10-29-2018, 03:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,550
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3908 Post(s)
Liked: 3080
@bud16415 , yes, the primary purpose of the smaller DMDs is cost savings. Independent testing shows the larger DMDs tend to have better overall performance. However, the difference in measured performance may be close enough that the average person might not notice a difference when viewing. A quick way to check DMD size is to search for the projector model number on projectorcentral.com and look at their spec page for that projector. They show DMD size on many but not all models. Sometimes the projector manufacturer doesn't officially announce what size DMD is used and it can be difficult to determine for sure.
bud16415 likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #11 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 06:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,849
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2638 Post(s)
Liked: 1265
Here is a tldr:
0.66" DMD > 0.47" DMD

Also note at the end of this year we will see 0.66" xpr 3d projectors in the $5k-8k range (ht8060/ht9060), and in 2019 for under $5k
Ruined is offline  
post #12 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 07:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Here is a tldr:
0.66" DMD > 0.47" DMD

Also note at the end of this year we will see 0.66" xpr 3d projectors in the $5k-8k range (ht8060/ht9060), and in 2019 for under $5k
The .66 chip can't be used for 3D since it has more than 1920x1080 pixels, unless they use some kind of scaling technique, which would probably cause ghosting. I'm just wondering what led you to that conclusion?
3DBob is offline  
post #13 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 07:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,849
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2638 Post(s)
Liked: 1265
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
The .66 chip can't be used for 3D since it has more than 1920x1080 pixels, unless they use some kind of scaling technique, which would probably cause ghosting. I'm just wondering what led you to that conclusion?
Sure it can, it was always a myth that it couldnt be as ive said all along. And no, upscaling doesnt cause ghosting, it just reduces SDE - same effect as upscaling 2d signal. The w11000h (ht8060) and x12000h (ht9060) have been out in China/india for a little while, both 0.66 xpr and 3d - will be announced in USA by dec2018/jan2019. Also the Vivitek dk8500z has been out a long while, 0.66xpr 3d as well.

https://www.benq.com/en/projector/ci...fications.html

https://www.benq.com/en/projector/ci...fications.html

https://www.vivitekusa.com/productdetail/DK8500Z/
Calibratedlumens likes this.

Last edited by Ruined; 10-30-2018 at 07:23 AM.
Ruined is offline  
post #14 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 07:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Sure it can, it was always a myth that it couldnt be as ive said all along. And no, upscaling doesnt cause ghosting, it just reduces SDE - same effect as upscaling 2d signal. The w11000h (ht8060) and x12000h (ht9060) have been out in China/india for a little while, both 0.66 xpr and 3d - will be announced in USA by dec2018/jan2019. Also the Vivitek dk8500z has been out a long while, 0.66xpr 3d as well.

https://www.benq.com/en/projector/ci...fications.html

https://www.benq.com/en/projector/ci...fications.html

https://www.vivitekusa.com/productdetail/DK8500Z/

Hmm. I will see it when I believe it, lol. If they can pull that off, then 3D should look 4k like since they will be combining two 4-meg scaled 1080p images to get 3D.
3DBob is offline  
post #15 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 07:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,849
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2638 Post(s)
Liked: 1265
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Hmm. I will see it when I believe it, lol. If they can pull that off, then its 3D should look 4k like since they will be combining two 4-meg scaled 1080p images to get 3D.
Its upscaled to 2716x1528 for display, not 4k, FYI. So image will resemble similar reduction in sde of 2d picture upscaled from 1920x1080 to 2716x1528.
Ruined is offline  
post #16 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 07:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Its upscaled to 2716x1528 for display, not 4k, FYI. So image will resemble similar reduction in sde of 2d picture upscaled from 1920x1080 to 2716x1528.
I understand it's not 4k, but upscaling a 2-megapixel image to a 4-megapixel image should cause some improvement in detail making the 3D image 4K-like. Like when 3D is upscaled on my passive 3D TV, although upscaled horizontally only.
3DBob is offline  
post #17 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 07:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,849
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2638 Post(s)
Liked: 1265
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
I understand it's not 4k, but upscaling a 2-megapixel image to a 4-megapixel image should cause some improvement in detail making the 3D image 4K-like. Like when 3D is upscaled on my passive 3D TV, although upscaled horizontally only.
It should improve a good bit but it wont be as good as a 4k signal in 2d because it wont go through the 4k xpr perceptual process that does the pixel blending etc that creates the 4k uhd final image on screen. And of course, the source will still be 1080p.

Last edited by Ruined; 10-30-2018 at 07:52 AM.
Ruined is offline  
post #18 of 47 Old 10-30-2018, 10:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,906
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2171 Post(s)
Liked: 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@bud16415 , yes, the primary purpose of the smaller DMDs is cost savings. Independent testing shows the larger DMDs tend to have better overall performance. However, the difference in measured performance may be close enough that the average person might not notice a difference when viewing. A quick way to check DMD size is to search for the projector model number on projectorcentral.com and look at their spec page for that projector. They show DMD size on many but not all models. Sometimes the projector manufacturer doesn't officially announce what size DMD is used and it can be difficult to determine for sure.
Generally in electronics making something smaller and just as good would mean a more exacting process and drive cost up, before driving it down. I guess the size of the DMD also relates to the size of the rest of the optics and such and maybe that’s where the cost improvement comes in. At the chip level it is hard to think there is much of a difference in cost.

I think my question has been mostly answered Thanks for all the info everyone.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #19 of 47 Old 12-16-2018, 02:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Looking to purchase my first projector. Dedicated, windowless room. Looking to get a 150" stationary screen. I am looking at the lg HU80KA right now, but I know little to nothing about projectors. Members in the forum have talked about this projector only having the .47 chip. Wondering if the .47 vs the .67 chip is relevant at all for someone purchasing their first projector. At $2500 I'm already pushing things a bit. A better $4500 projector isn't really something I'm considering.


Thanks!
Porknz is offline  
post #20 of 47 Old 12-27-2018, 03:11 PM
Member
 
jumguf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Damn, it's so frustrating to be in this market right now ...

I really want to upgrade my projector to 4K, but even now after a couple of years, there's nothing but compromises.
I you want 4K, but retain 3D, you're stuck with either a stupid light border, rainbow effect, or both.
If you then try to go for LCD pixel shifters, like Epson's new 4010/4050, you get none of that, but then you dont get full 4K resolution on screen either ....
If you want full 4K res without rainbows, you can only get a Sony or JVC which cost waaaay too much, and often have a lot less lumens ...

Right now, I'm hoping that TI pull themselves together and manifest a 3D compatible DLP chip without that cursed light border, because apparently Epson is not gonna be able to come up with a full resolution 3LCD alternative to the 0.47 or 0.66 DLP DMD, or I guess they would have done so by now ...
But then there's still the rainbow issue (for me anyway), although I've seen a few DLP models, where the effect is less pronounced and definitely tolerable, among them Optoma UHD370X and Benq TK800 (although the latter was so ridiculously noisy because of the XPR unit, that I could never live with it ...)

So ... holding on to 1080p a little longer, reluctantly ....

Last edited by jumguf; 12-27-2018 at 03:39 PM.
jumguf is offline  
post #21 of 47 Old 12-27-2018, 07:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sage11x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2896 Post(s)
Liked: 2915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumguf View Post
Damn, it's so frustrating to be in this market right now ...



I really want to upgrade my projector to 4K, but even now after a couple of years, there's nothing but compromises.

I you want 4K, but retain 3D, you're stuck with either a stupid light border, rainbow effect, or both.

If you then try to go for LCD pixel shifters, like Epson's new 4010/4050, you get none of that, but then you dont get full 4K resolution on screen either ....

If you want full 4K res without rainbows, you can only get a Sony or JVC which cost waaaay too much, and often have a lot less lumens ...



Right now, I'm hoping that TI pull themselves together and manifest a 3D compatible DLP chip without that cursed light border, because apparently Epson is not gonna be able to come up with a full resolution 3LCD alternative to the 0.47 or 0.66 DLP DMD, or I guess they would have done so by now ...

But then there's still the rainbow issue (for me anyway), although I've seen a few DLP models, where the effect is less pronounced and definitely tolerable, among them Optoma UHD370X and Benq TK800 (although the latter was so ridiculously noisy because of the XPR unit, that I could never live with it ...)



So ... holding on to 1080p a little longer, reluctantly ....


Come join the BenQ W2700 thread. It will be called HT3550 in the states. New .47” DMD without the light border. RGBRGB color wheel for no RBE. Not sure about noise but the chassis is a bit bigger than the current TK800/HT2550 so that should help. Plus it has an auto iris and CFI.
jumguf likes this.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
sage11x is offline  
post #22 of 47 Old 12-28-2018, 01:49 AM
Member
 
jumguf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Come join the BenQ W2700 thread. It will be called HT3550 in the states. New .47” DMD without the light border. RGBRGB color wheel for no RBE. Not sure about noise but the chassis is a bit bigger than the current TK800/HT2550 so that should help. Plus it has an auto iris and CFI.
Wow, didn't hear anything about this, will do PRONTO ! Thanx so much :-D Could there be light at the end of the tunnel? ;-)

By the way, is there any valid info about a new .47" DMD without light border, I mean is it for real?

Last edited by jumguf; 12-28-2018 at 01:55 AM.
jumguf is offline  
post #23 of 47 Old 12-28-2018, 02:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Paganmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Last I had read in one of the threads (could've been the W2700 one), the lightborder isn't completely removed, but significantly reduced.
Paganmoon is online now  
post #24 of 47 Old 12-28-2018, 02:43 AM
Member
 
jumguf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Hmmm .... one more area of concern for me might be the XPR shifting noise, which Optoma seems to have gotten right, but on the Benq TK800 I tried, it had a ridiculously loud humming noise, that exceeded the actual fan noise by far and I could never live with it.
jumguf is offline  
post #25 of 47 Old 12-28-2018, 07:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sage11x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2896 Post(s)
Liked: 2915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paganmoon View Post
Last I had read in one of the threads (could've been the W2700 one), the lightborder isn't completely removed, but significantly reduced.


Most all DLPs have some kind of ‘light border’ depending on the size of their POM. But the first generation .47” DMD’s light border was egregiously large. So large it would overshoot the frame of most every consumer purchasable screen by a couple of inches and was even blamed for contributing to lackluster black level performance. If the new chip has a light border that can easily be soaked up by a black framed screen then, IMO, the issue is fixed.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
sage11x is offline  
post #26 of 47 Old 12-28-2018, 08:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sage11x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2896 Post(s)
Liked: 2915
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumguf View Post
Hmmm .... one more area of concern for me might be the XPR shifting noise, which Optoma seems to have gotten right, but on the Benq TK800 I tried, it had a ridiculously loud humming noise, that exceeded the actual fan noise by far and I could never live with it.


I don’t know about that. I’ve heard complaints on all the .47” models about the actuator noise— BenQ, Optoma and Viewsonic. It does seem to vary from unit to unit, however, and I’m sure that some people are bothered by it more than others. My review sample HT2550 and TK800 were both surprisingly quiet (for such compact projectors). I even posted a YouTube video in another thread about the noise. The first TK800 sample I had DID have an issue where the speaker would buzz unless you placed the projector in mute. This apparently effected a small batch of the very first units sold.

The HT3550 will be aiming at a higher price point and higher market than the TK800 so I expect it to be more refined. Won’t know for sure about noise until I can get my hands on one.
jumguf likes this.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
sage11x is offline  
post #27 of 47 Old 12-28-2018, 08:34 AM
Senior Member
 
MJ DOOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: COOK COUNTY, IL
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Question about these new DLP 4K projectors, if you disable the 4k shifting, can it accept and still display a 4k/HDR signal?

I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets.
MJ DOOM is offline  
post #28 of 47 Old 12-29-2018, 07:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sage11x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2896 Post(s)
Liked: 2915
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
Question about these new DLP 4K projectors, if you disable the 4k shifting, can it accept and still display a 4k/HDR signal?


Both the BenQ HT2550 and TK800 will still display a UHD source when in their ‘silent mode’. Silent mode is BenQ’s name for deactivating the XPR pixel shift and running the projector in it’s native, 1080p, resolution.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
sage11x is offline  
post #29 of 47 Old 12-29-2018, 08:11 AM
Senior Member
 
Paganmoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Most all DLPs have some kind of ‘light border’ depending on the size of their POM. But the first generation .47” DMD’s light border was egregiously large. So large it would overshoot the frame of most every consumer purchasable screen by a couple of inches and was even blamed for contributing to lackluster black level performance. If the new chip has a light border that can easily be soaked up by a black framed screen then, IMO, the issue is fixed.
Only ever had a W1070 without any light border, and the UHD51 with the large one. So for me, no light border at all was the norm, so my thinking goes, as long as there is a light border (even if smaller), it's not completely solved, but I get your point.
Paganmoon is online now  
post #30 of 47 Old 12-29-2018, 08:38 AM
Senior Member
 
MJ DOOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: COOK COUNTY, IL
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Both the BenQ HT2550 and TK800 will still display a UHD source when in their ‘silent mode’. Silent mode is BenQ’s name for deactivating the XPR pixel shift and running the projector in it’s native, 1080p, resolution.
Do the black levels get deeper, contrast increases when doing so?

I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets.
MJ DOOM is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off