New Optoma 1080p HDR10 0.65 projector: HD27HDR - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 462 Old 10-20-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kreationz View Post
1080P @ 120hz means it should work with NVIDIA 3D Vision 2...

This PJ just got added to my list... Might end up going with 2 PJs now (This for 3D+gaming and another for 4K TV viewing). If only the lag could be lowered on the 4K models when in 1080P mode (with the extra processing needed for XPR off).
If Optoma wants, I'd love Blur Busters to give this projector a test. 1080p 120Hz+ gaming tests.
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post #62 of 462 Old 10-20-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kreationz View Post
1080P @ 120hz means it should work with NVIDIA 3D Vision 2...

This PJ just got added to my list... Might end up going with 2 PJs now (This for 3D+gaming and another for 4K TV viewing). If only the lag could be lowered on the 4K models when in 1080P mode (with the extra processing needed for XPR off).
If Optoma wants, I'd love Blur Busters to give this projector a test. 1080p 120Hz+ gaming tests.

4K 60 gives enough bandwidth for 1080p 240Hz, and chips exists now. DLP can easily handle it with only minor firmware changes (just a mere loss of bitdepth per Hz, since DLP generates colors temporally). Nothing stops a DLP projector from cheaply achieving 480Hz+ except the processing that drive it.

NOTE: Display motion blur elimination without using impulse (strobe) techniques, requires an insanely high Hz. Blurless sample-and-hold requires 1000Hz+ since persistence (MPRT) is refresh cycle length when a refresh cycle length is fully continuous for its entire length (aka sample and hold). So it is an area that is of intense interest for Blur Busters, having tested 480Hz and 240Hz displays and watched 1000Hz prototype displays. We're eager to see more ultrahigh-Hz hit highend-consumer market in the coming years. Some people are flicker sensitive (CRT, plasma) or blur sensitive (nonstrobed LCD) -- and an unfortunate few are overly sensitive to both.
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post #63 of 462 Old 10-20-2018, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post
Some people are flicker sensitive (CRT, plasma) or blur sensitive (nonstrobed LCD) -- and an unfortunate few are overly sensitive to both.
I'm definitely sensitive to flicker, easily able to see it up to around 90hz on a CRT and blur sensitive below 75hz, but oddly not sensitive to RBE (at least not with my Optoma HD25-LV I have now).
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post #64 of 462 Old 10-20-2018, 07:35 PM
 
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Dual 1080p DLPs at 120hz would rule for passive 3D too, at 120hz per eye. Using interpolation on your PC. 3400 lumens x 2 = 1700 lumens into each eye (through polarizing filters). Before calibration, of course.

On a huge projector, sitting up close, it would also be really neat to track your head, to give a pseudo VR experience by actually turning the camera as you tilt or move your head. For games of course, but I think they're also working on enabling some amount of that synthetically for VR from static content nowadays.

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post #65 of 462 Old 10-22-2018, 08:53 PM
 
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If Optoma wants, I'd love Blur Busters to give this projector a test. 1080p 120Hz+ gaming tests.
I think the DMDs these projectors are using can only do up to 144hz in 8-bit, mayyybe 10. 240hz is probably far from the realm of possibility, although who knows. Generally you must sacrifice bit depth to get higher refresh rates on DLPs, and it seems like only the newer, 0.47 inch DMDs can do 240hz. I think it's a function of not only the DMD controller, but the mirror switching speed, and the smaller 1080p DLPs can switch faster.

I'm not 100% sure about this, but logically, if they could simply replace the controllers in the older projectors to do 4K = 1080p x 4 at 240hz, they would have, because the DC3 chips can do up to 2500:1 native contrast and the 0.47 inch ones struggle to do more than 800:1. For this reason, I suspect 240hz is out of reach but 144hz native should be possible (since that's what they run at in 3D mode for triple flash), modulo the controller's specs of course.

One thing which might contradict this is the fact that the 8K DLP projectors which are 4K native 1-chip designs, do it via 240hz and use older 4K chips of the Dark Chip 3 era (0.95 inch?), I believe. So it might be possible to drive DC3-era 1080p DMDs at 240hz. I just don't know why TI would want their customers to deliberately re-tool their home cinema projectors to use 0.47 inch instead of 0.65 inch since the latter perform so much better in terms of contrast.

I hope you get a test projector to review!
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post #66 of 462 Old 10-23-2018, 12:07 AM
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Hello guys, just picked up this projector and was wondering what were the best settings/calibration for it? Mainly using it to watch movies.

So far I like the projector and picture quality for movies, however it is my first projector so have nothing to compare it to. I did connect my PS4 Pro to it, but not sure if settings were wrong but I didn’t like the colors and overall image look (Blown highlights on HDR mode, muted colors). Maybe im doing something wrong? Thanks in advance.
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post #67 of 462 Old 10-23-2018, 11:35 AM
 
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Wow, I didn't even realize it was already out and available. I'd try fiddling with the tone mapping curves in the projector menu a bit, and maybe watch some HDR content from your PC (if you can).

Do you see any rainbows? I'm not RBE sensitive with my w1070 but that has an RGBRGB colour wheel, and some have speculated the wheel on this one might make rainbows more obvious to some people. I'm glad it's available on Amazon for easy returns, just in case.

I'm definitely going to wait for reviews before pulling the trigger. As cheap as it is, I can't just throw 900$ CAD away unless it represents a good value.

Curious if HDR10 works at 120hz and in 4:4:4 or RGB.

Can you tell us if you can pass 4:4:4 in 10-bit, at least at 60hz?

That's also somewhat crucial to me, as 4:2:2 reduces text sharpness and I don't want to have to switch resolutions all the time.
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post #68 of 462 Old 10-23-2018, 11:42 AM
 
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Do Optoma projectors typically allow users to update the firmware without sending it back?

If not, I'd wait until the 120hz mode is done before ordering.
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post #69 of 462 Old 10-23-2018, 08:24 PM
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I dont see any rainbows in the projection. Tried my PS4 Pro again but still like how my Samsung Led 65” looks so will put it back on that. Maybe it’s not a fair comparison anyway.
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post #70 of 462 Old 10-23-2018, 11:03 PM
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Do Optoma projectors typically allow users to update the firmware without sending it back?

If not, I'd wait until the 120hz mode is done before ordering.
It varies by model, but this one has user updatable firmware.
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post #71 of 462 Old 10-24-2018, 12:20 AM
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Glad to hear that Tuan! Any calibration suggestions? I did the HD 709 calibration setup by eye and it looked ok, but the presets looked way better. Maybe I missed something.
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post #72 of 462 Old 10-25-2018, 07:39 AM
 
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Sadly, I don't think a 1.1 throw ratio will work in my room, without lens shift. Darn.

Tuan, is there any chance Optoma will make a longer-throw version of this with similar specs?

Maybe with an RGBRGB colour wheel? I'd pay extra for lens shift, too. And I'd pay a bunch more for a laser or LED version, no doubt. Looks like I'll have to wait until 2019 to upgrade.
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post #73 of 462 Old 10-26-2018, 01:46 AM
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@Tuan what are the typical noise levels of this new projector? I had to return an HD144X recently due to a high pitch noise(not the fans, the fans where fine).

This new projector does sound like just what I have been looking for. Any news on release date in Europe?
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post #74 of 462 Old 10-27-2018, 12:12 PM
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Sadly, I don't think a 1.1 throw ratio will work in my room, without lens shift. Darn.

Tuan, is there any chance Optoma will make a longer-throw version of this with similar specs?

Maybe with an RGBRGB colour wheel? I'd pay extra for lens shift, too. And I'd pay a bunch more for a laser or LED version, no doubt. Looks like I'll have to wait until 2019 to upgrade.
This is a long throw Projector. Ratio is 1.48 – 1.62
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post #75 of 462 Old 10-27-2018, 12:29 PM
 
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I thought it was 1.1? I'll have to check the projector calculator to see if it'll fit. Thanks! Might not be able to without lens shift but maybe I can work around that.
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post #76 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 07:25 AM
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Hello guys, just picked up this projector and was wondering what were the best settings/calibration for it? Mainly using it to watch movies.

So far I like the projector and picture quality for movies, however it is my first projector so have nothing to compare it to. I did connect my PS4 Pro to it, but not sure if settings were wrong but I didn’t like the colors and overall image look (Blown highlights on HDR mode, muted colors). Maybe im doing something wrong? Thanks in advance.
I received my projector on Saturday. I've only had time to hook it up to my Xbox One S and play a few games on it. My first impressions are kind of lackluster. I don't know what it is but the color just isn't there. I'm a little shocked because I want to say my older Optoma X312 pushes a better image when it comes to color. As far as the contrast ratio goes...I'm just not seeing double the contrast over my X312. It literally looks the same to me. Also it emits a high pitch whine that hits my ear just right when on. It's not the fans but something else in the projector.

I will get some more seat time with it tonight and will run some HDR movies through it to see how it performs. If I don't see marked improvement I'm going to package it up and send it back as it was supposed to be an "upgrade" over my X312.

If anyone wants me to test anything specifically let me know. It does pass all the HDR tests on the Xbox One S...less Dolby Vision. It also accepted a 1080p 120hz signal from my Xbox One S as well.

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post #77 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 08:09 AM
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I received my projector on Saturday. I've only had time to hook it up to my Xbox One S and play a few games on it. My first impressions are kind of lackluster. I don't know what it is but the color just isn't there. I'm a little shocked because I want to say my older Optoma X312 pushes a better image when it comes to color. As far as the contrast ratio goes...I'm just not seeing double the contrast over my X312. It literally looks the same to me. Also it emits a high pitch whine that hits my ear just right when on. It's not the fans but something else in the projector.

I will get some more seat time with it tonight and will run some HDR movies through it to see how it performs. If I don't see marked improvement I'm going to package it up and send it back as it was supposed to be an "upgrade" over my X312.

If anyone wants me to test anything specifically let me know. It does pass all the HDR tests on the Xbox One S...less Dolby Vision. It also accepted a 1080p 120hz signal from my Xbox One S as well.
Can you try some simple calibration and let us know the how are the black levels and colors on different modes
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post #78 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 08:47 AM
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Color should be adjustable from factory settings. There aren't dramatic differences in contrast with DLP projectors as they all use the same TI chips. A high pitch whine not related to the fans is usually the color wheel, which can vary in pitch from projector to projector and can be more annoying to some than others.
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post #79 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP33 View Post
I received my projector on Saturday. I've only had time to hook it up to my Xbox One S and play a few games on it. My first impressions are kind of lackluster. I don't know what it is but the color just isn't there. I'm a little shocked because I want to say my older Optoma X312 pushes a better image when it comes to color. As far as the contrast ratio goes...I'm just not seeing double the contrast over my X312. It literally looks the same to me. Also it emits a high pitch whine that hits my ear just right when on. It's not the fans but something else in the projector.

I will get some more seat time with it tonight and will run some HDR movies through it to see how it performs. If I don't see marked improvement I'm going to package it up and send it back as it was supposed to be an "upgrade" over my X312.

If anyone wants me to test anything specifically let me know. It does pass all the HDR tests on the Xbox One S...less Dolby Vision. It also accepted a 1080p 120hz signal from my Xbox One S as well.
For this price level you can't expect the colors out of the box to be right on. It needs to be professionally calibrated to show its real color and contrast ability.

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post #80 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP33 View Post
I received my projector on Saturday. I've only had time to hook it up to my Xbox One S and play a few games on it. My first impressions are kind of lackluster. I don't know what it is but the color just isn't there. I'm a little shocked because I want to say my older Optoma X312 pushes a better image when it comes to color. As far as the contrast ratio goes...I'm just not seeing double the contrast over my X312. It literally looks the same to me. Also it emits a high pitch whine that hits my ear just right when on. It's not the fans but something else in the projector.



I will get some more seat time with it tonight and will run some HDR movies through it to see how it performs. If I don't see marked improvement I'm going to package it up and send it back as it was supposed to be an "upgrade" over my X312.



If anyone wants me to test anything specifically let me know. It does pass all the HDR tests on the Xbox One S...less Dolby Vision. It also accepted a 1080p 120hz signal from my Xbox One S as well.


Have you guys tried changing the “Brilliant Color” settings? I know it doesn’t make any sense, but turning brilliant color down or off will usually make colors more vibrant. Also check the HDMI settings and see if they are set to full or limited. Limited is usually better.
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post #81 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 09:24 AM
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Can you try some simple calibration and let us know the how are the black levels and colors on different modes
So far I've just flipped through the preset options in the menu. Since there isn't much out there on settings I don't have much to go on other than that. I will try to do some custom settings and see if I can dial things in more.

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Color should be adjustable from factory settings. There aren't dramatic differences in contrast with DLP projectors as they all use the same TI chips. A high pitch whine not related to the fans is usually the color wheel, which can vary in pitch from projector to projector and can be more annoying to some than others.
I was thinking it might be the wheel as well. The noise is not there on my X312. I wasn't expecting dramatic contrast differences but when it's advertised over the HD27 at having double the contrast, I expected to see "some" difference over my X312 which is sitting at 20k to 1.

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For this price level you can't expect the colors out of the box to be right on. It needs to be professionally calibrated to show its real color and contrast ability.
Understood, but this being my 2nd projector and owning 2 OLEDS a FALD set and budget 4k LED set, all things being equal it doesn't have that HDR pop you'd come to expect. Especially being coined an HDR projector. Even compared to my X312 it's doesn't "stand out" and I didn't have it professionally calibrated. It's a $600 projector...not sure I want to spend half that amount to get it calibrated. My OLED's yes...this I don't know that I will.

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Have you guys tried changing the “Brilliant Color” settings? I know it doesn’t make any sense, but turning brilliant color down or off will usually make colors more vibrant. Also check the HDMI settings and see if they are set to full or limited. Limited is usually better.
I have not tried that yet. I can flip it on and off to see if it makes a difference.
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post #82 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 09:47 AM
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HDR on a lamp based DLP projector seems pointless due to low color brightness and weak native contrast levels. A high lumen laser light source with dynamic contrast dimming is needed.

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post #83 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 09:58 AM
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HDR on a lamp based DLP projector seems pointless due to low color brightness and weak native contrast levels. A high lumen laser light source with dynamic contrast dimming is needed.


I would agree that it’s much less beneficial on projectors, I can say first hand that having HDR is still is a noticeable improvement over a lower bandwidth source if it’s implemented well. Some projectors seem to only clip the highest and lowest ranges of color and brightness while some use custom algorithms to simulate HDR without losing much detail.
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... I wasn't expecting dramatic contrast differences but when it's advertised over the HD27 at having double the contrast, I expected to see "some" difference over my X312 which is sitting at 20k to 1. ...
It's pretty commonly mentioned on this forum that manufacturer specs for contrast are unreliable. Independent testing with calibrated equipment has shown that manufacturer claims are often greatly inflated and not consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer.
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post #85 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 01:14 PM
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It's pretty commonly mentioned on this forum that manufacturer specs for contrast are unreliable. Independent testing with calibrated equipment has shown that manufacturer claims are often greatly inflated and not consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Thanks, I understand. I'm comparing an "Optoma" X312 projector to the "Optoma" HD27HDR I just bought. Both projectors are from the same manufacturer.

If you buy a Sony 850E and upgrade to a Sony Z9D...you'd expect to see the contrast difference....and you do.
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Thanks, I understand. I'm comparing an "Optoma" X312 projector to the "Optoma" HD27HDR I just bought. Both projectors are from the same manufacturer. ...
Sometimes the same manufacturer will rate a more expensive model with much greater contrast than a less expensive model just to help promote the model with the higher profit margin. In reality actual measured contrast of most mainstream DLP models tends to fall within a fairly narrow range and DLP contrast in general hasn't improved for many years now. Your new one might measure slightly better than your old one without being obvious enough to notice just by eyeballing.
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post #87 of 462 Old 10-29-2018, 08:42 PM
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So far I've just flipped through the preset options in the menu. Since there isn't much out there on settings I don't have much to go on other than that. I will try to do some custom settings and see if I can dial things in more.







I was thinking it might be the wheel as well. The noise is not there on my X312. I wasn't expecting dramatic contrast differences but when it's advertised over the HD27 at having double the contrast, I expected to see "some" difference over my X312 which is sitting at 20k to 1.







Understood, but this being my 2nd projector and owning 2 OLEDS a FALD set and budget 4k LED set, all things being equal it doesn't have that HDR pop you'd come to expect. Especially being coined an HDR projector. Even compared to my X312 it's doesn't "stand out" and I didn't have it professionally calibrated. It's a $600 projector...not sure I want to spend half that amount to get it calibrated. My OLED's yes...this I don't know that I will.







I have not tried that yet. I can flip it on and off to see if it makes a difference.


Have you tried changing the hdmi settings yet?
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post #88 of 462 Old 10-30-2018, 12:40 AM
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How much better will the colors be on an RGBRGB color wheel projector compared to this one? I think im just going to keep a projector for movies, not gaming.
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post #89 of 462 Old 10-30-2018, 04:31 AM
 
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Big mistake: Games absolutely rule on a projector. Even lower res, it's far more fun and immersive. Plus with 8.3ms and 120hz there really is no major downside, a GTX 1080+ GPU could easily render that many FPS consistently at that res in most games.

The only thing better than a projector is VR.
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post #90 of 462 Old 10-30-2018, 06:51 AM
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Big mistake: Games absolutely rule on a projector. Even lower res, it's far more fun and immersive. Plus with 8.3ms and 120hz there really is no major downside, a GTX 1080+ GPU could easily render that many FPS consistently at that res in most games.



The only thing better than a projector is VR.


Idk, I moved my PS4 to my computer desk and playing 1’6” away from my 27” monitor is better than 10’ away from my 120” screen. For me anyway. I think a lot of people who want to take the 4k plunge but are worried about input lag might want to consider a dedicated gaming setup.
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