New Optoma 1080p HDR10 0.65 projector: HD27HDR - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 473 Old 12-14-2018, 04:31 PM
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My first post also!
I think people are getting excited about this projector - but there are doubts! I am looking into making a decent couch-pc-gaming setup and would love to play at 1080 120 hz. But I also want to watch movies and want to be happy with the picture quality as well..
Am I asking too much from this projector? I seen a few good comments and some bad ones in this thread, so just want to ask a few questions to maybe clear this us for me and maybe other people on the fence.
1) I’m worried that Tuan didn’t get back to us about his test results, what did you find Tuan? Is it better or worse than the regular HD27?
2) can anyone else chime in about the fan or other noise from the pj, is it a deal breaker?
3) does the pj work right now at 1080 120hz, or do we have to wait for firmware? Will that firmware be coming to the regular HD27 as well?

Sorry for all the questions, I am really interested in this pj or the reg HD27 as it’s at a pretty good price right now in Canada. Just don’t want to have buyer’s remorse.
Thanks!
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post #152 of 473 Old 12-14-2018, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ptolmy View Post
My first post also!
I think people are getting excited about this projector - but there are doubts! I am looking into making a decent couch-pc-gaming setup and would love to play at 1080 120 hz. But I also want to watch movies and want to be happy with the picture quality as well..
Am I asking too much from this projector? I seen a few good comments and some bad ones in this thread, so just want to ask a few questions to maybe clear this us for me and maybe other people on the fence.
1) I’m worried that Tuan didn’t get back to us about his test results, what did you find Tuan? Is it better or worse than the regular HD27?
2) can anyone else chime in about the fan or other noise from the pj, is it a deal breaker?
3) does the pj work right now at 1080 120hz, or do we have to wait for firmware? Will that firmware be coming to the regular HD27 as well?

Sorry for all the questions, I am really interested in this pj or the reg HD27 as it’s at a pretty good price right now in Canada. Just don’t want to have buyer’s remorse.
Thanks!
I think I can answer 2 and 3. I was worried about noise as well, but I think its quiet especially on eco. My gaming computer is much louder. I definitely don't hear any high pitch sounds and I'm fairly sensitive to that type of noise.

I was able to switch my resolution to 1080 120hz and it seemed to work. I need to read up on exactly what that accomplishes these days. I remember the old CRT's we would bump of our hz to get a "smoother" looking signal.
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post #153 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post
Pretty sure that's a limitation of 3DTV Play due to it being framepacked 3D.
That's true, it's a limitation of 3dtv play. But, if you support frame sequential 3d we can use 3d vision, which doesn't have those silly HDMI based restrictions. The Optoma UHD40/UHD50 works in 1920x1080x120Hz frame sequential from a PC. I really wish this input mode was added to more projectors!!! I believe it was also added to the UHD60 with later firmware.
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post #154 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 11:17 AM
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That's exactly what this projector needs Tuan. The 1080p 120hz 3d. PLEASE!
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post #155 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Tmrat85 View Post
My HD25-LV died this week and I'm thinking about grabbing the HD29Darbee or the HD27HDR. Which one would you choose, which is better?
I have installed and calibrated both the HD29 and 39Darbee and own the HD27HDR. If I had the HD27HDR at the time I was selling the Darbee's, I would have gone with the HD27HDR. Don't get me wrong, the Darbee's are excellent in their duplication of the Rec 709, and properly calibrated, looks stunning. The advantage of HD27HDR is the HDR. I give it an edge over any other 1080p projector out there on that note. I have been demo'ing Optoma, Epson and BenQ projectors for years, and this is a great projector where you can take advantage of the HDR aspects of the 4K (which if you notice most reviews, that is the deciding factor on whether you have a good 4K and a reference one), and build your 4K library, while the cost of 4K projectors drop in price and add new features. It is a better gaming projector than I have seen ever, and it uses 10bit instead of 8bit color so you have gone from 16 million colors to 1 billion (1024 shades of RGB) so you don't get banding like you get in SDR, which is all the Darbee can do and can do enhanced gaming mode on the PS4 and XBoxS/X.

HDR is the key, and since you have the have the same cables, receiver, player for a regular 4K projector as you do on this, replacing this down the line with a 4K projector is a lot simpler.

By the way, comments about color wheel or fan noise (none in eco mode, slight in other modes), and the image I haven't found in this projector. My "go to" demo disk is Blue Planet II 4K and even before I ran my 4K cable to the projector, using my standard HDMI cable in SDR was jaw dropping. Seeing it in HDR, it stuns the family. I have shown this on a variety of 4K and 1080p projectors and between the 3400 lumens and the RYGCWB wheel, this is definitely is the "bang for the buck" projector. Also, because it is running 1080p and not having to upconvert lower resolutions to 4K, even 480p DVD's look as good as I have seen on any other projector.

Don't ask me about 3D, don't care, and I can't watch it anyway because I get ill watching 3D, and since this is primarily for movie/show viewing and not gaming (we do have an XboxS attached just rarely use it) don't ask about the gaming performance. I am professionally friends with Tuan, so I know about the firmware update situation, and have been pushing hard to get this info out. The issue is you have to have a laptop or computer, a male to male USB cable, a specific program and the firmware file. Strangely enough, the projector world has fallen way behind on the idea of firmware updates as only the UHD51A/ALV and UHL55 do on the network firmware updates.
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post #156 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 02:34 PM
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Can you test same setting but with her? That is 1080 120hz hdr
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post #157 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 02:35 PM
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That’s good news - thanks Swim!
Ya that’s it, the 120hz really smooths things out. Really nice when playing games. So the last hitch is the picture quality and washed-out colour reports.. I already ordered a screen, so I’m committed,
HD27 or hd27hdr hmm..
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post #158 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pclemmons View Post
I have installed and calibrated both the HD29 and 39Darbee and own the HD27HDR. If I had the HD27HDR at the time I was selling the Darbee's, I would have gone with the HD27HDR. Don't get me wrong, the Darbee's are excellent in their duplication of the Rec 709, and properly calibrated, looks stunning. The advantage of HD27HDR is the HDR. I give it an edge over any other 1080p projector out there on that note. I have been demo'ing Optoma, Epson and BenQ projectors for years, and this is a great projector where you can take advantage of the HDR aspects of the 4K (which if you notice most reviews, that is the deciding factor on whether you have a good 4K and a reference one), and build your 4K library, while the cost of 4K projectors drop in price and add new features. It is a better gaming projector than I have seen ever, and it uses 10bit instead of 8bit color so you have gone from 16 million colors to 1 billion (1024 shades of RGB) so you don't get banding like you get in SDR, which is all the Darbee can do and can do enhanced gaming mode on the PS4 and XBoxS/X.

HDR is the key, and since you have the have the same cables, receiver, player for a regular 4K projector as you do on this, replacing this down the line with a 4K projector is a lot simpler.

By the way, comments about color wheel or fan noise (none in eco mode, slight in other modes), and the image I haven't found in this projector. My "go to" demo disk is Blue Planet II 4K and even before I ran my 4K cable to the projector, using my standard HDMI cable in SDR was jaw dropping. Seeing it in HDR, it stuns the family. I have shown this on a variety of 4K and 1080p projectors and between the 3400 lumens and the RYGCWB wheel, this is definitely is the "bang for the buck" projector. Also, because it is running 1080p and not having to upconvert lower resolutions to 4K, even 480p DVD's look as good as I have seen on any other projector.

Don't ask me about 3D, don't care, and I can't watch it anyway because I get ill watching 3D, and since this is primarily for movie/show viewing and not gaming (we do have an XboxS attached just rarely use it) don't ask about the gaming performance. I am professionally friends with Tuan, so I know about the firmware update situation, and have been pushing hard to get this info out. The issue is you have to have a laptop or computer, a male to male USB cable, a specific program and the firmware file. Strangely enough, the projector world has fallen way behind on the idea of firmware updates as only the UHD51A/ALV and UHL55 do on the network firmware updates.
Do you have to have two calibrated settings? One for HDR material and one for SDR material?

Jack
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post #159 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pclemmons View Post
I have installed and calibrated both the HD29 and 39Darbee and own the HD27HDR. If I had the HD27HDR at the time I was selling the Darbee's, I would have gone with the HD27HDR. Don't get me wrong, the Darbee's are excellent in their duplication of the Rec 709, and properly calibrated, looks stunning. The advantage of HD27HDR is the HDR. I give it an edge over any other 1080p projector out there on that note. I have been demo'ing Optoma, Epson and BenQ projectors for years, and this is a great projector where you can take advantage of the HDR aspects of the 4K (which if you notice most reviews, that is the deciding factor on whether you have a good 4K and a reference one), and build your 4K library, while the cost of 4K projectors drop in price and add new features. It is a better gaming projector than I have seen ever, and it uses 10bit instead of 8bit color so you have gone from 16 million colors to 1 billion (1024 shades of RGB) so you don't get banding like you get in SDR, which is all the Darbee can do and can do enhanced gaming mode on the PS4 and XBoxS/X.

HDR is the key, and since you have the have the same cables, receiver, player for a regular 4K projector as you do on this, replacing this down the line with a 4K projector is a lot simpler.

By the way, comments about color wheel or fan noise (none in eco mode, slight in other modes), and the image I haven't found in this projector. My "go to" demo disk is Blue Planet II 4K and even before I ran my 4K cable to the projector, using my standard HDMI cable in SDR was jaw dropping. Seeing it in HDR, it stuns the family. I have shown this on a variety of 4K and 1080p projectors and between the 3400 lumens and the RYGCWB wheel, this is definitely is the "bang for the buck" projector. Also, because it is running 1080p and not having to upconvert lower resolutions to 4K, even 480p DVD's look as good as I have seen on any other projector.

Don't ask me about 3D, don't care, and I can't watch it anyway because I get ill watching 3D, and since this is primarily for movie/show viewing and not gaming (we do have an XboxS attached just rarely use it) don't ask about the gaming performance. I am professionally friends with Tuan, so I know about the firmware update situation, and have been pushing hard to get this info out. The issue is you have to have a laptop or computer, a male to male USB cable, a specific program and the firmware file. Strangely enough, the projector world has fallen way behind on the idea of firmware updates as only the UHD51A/ALV and UHL55 do on the network firmware updates.
Thanks for the input pclemmons! Certainly sounds great! I’m starting to lean over the fence..
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post #160 of 473 Old 12-15-2018, 09:09 PM
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Do you have to have two calibrated settings? One for HDR material and one for SDR material?
I calibrate the SDR via the WoW Disk from Disney. There isn't any HDR calibration disks. I know that Calman will do it, and on the list of things to get next year.
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post #161 of 473 Old 12-17-2018, 12:46 PM
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Hello everyone,

Since this is the longest and most informative thread I have found regarding the HD27HDR projector, I decided to post my question here.

I am currently shoping around for my 1st projector and this model caught my attention. Mostly because of the HDR support. I don't want to shell out 1 500$ - 4 000$ for a 4K projector, but it'd be nice if I could enjoy my PS4 games with HDR. Especially if I can do so without having to upgrade to the PS4 Pro.

However, knowing that the HD27 retails for 600$ (here in Canada anyway) and the HD27HDR retails for 835$ - 850$, I was wondering if the HDR support is worth the 200 ish extra bucks especially considering the fact that I'm probably gonna be using it only for games.

Also, the other option I am looking at in the same price range as the HD27HDR is the Epson HC2100.

What do you guys think?

Thanks
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post #162 of 473 Old 12-17-2018, 08:30 PM
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This is about as good as it gets for a gaming pj. 1080p 120hz with hdr, or 4k 60hz hdr. It's really bright and only has 16ms gaming lag.
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post #163 of 473 Old 12-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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Tuan, can you verify if 3d 1080p 120hz input and projection is possible yet now or will be with a firmware update? Clearly that is what people are asking for, that is the last thing I need to know before purchasing.

If anyone has been using the 120hz frame sequential from PC with 3DTV play or 3d vision please let us know.
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post #164 of 473 Old 12-17-2018, 09:57 PM
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Tuan posted in another section on here that he will not be on the forums till mid summer due to other obligations.
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post #165 of 473 Old 12-19-2018, 11:30 AM
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Thanks Dagameballa, that is ok. I just posted this to the Nvidia 3D Vision Forum:


Hey everyone, I have great news! I scoured the AVS and internet regarding the HD27HDR supporting 120hz frame sequential 3D (for us to use Generic CRT mode with in 3DTV) but came up with nothing definate. I exchanged a few emails with Optoma support, sharing this thread, an AVS forum thread, and the Blur Busters article article which said there was hope for a firmware update in the future. The support was VERY helpful, and talked to the product management team in Taiwan. I received this answer to my questions:

"Dear Matthew,

The HD27HDr can support frame sequential 3d at 120hz, if you hit the re-sync button on the projector it should appear in the info box that pops up when the input is selected."

It will have to be tested with the UFO frame skipping checker, but Should be good even if not perfect I'd think!
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post #166 of 473 Old 12-19-2018, 01:23 PM
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Hello everyone, I just got mine today. I tested it on a Windows PC and on a PS4 Pro. So far I like it very much, not noisy although audible and a very nice picture (compared to my old Benq W700, I don t have other reference). I still have to test it with 4k HDR content but I didn t have time (MadVR and so on). But I tried it with the PS4 Pro and the 4k and HDR options of the PS4 Pro were not available ("your TV doesn t support HDR..."). I must admit the HDMI signal pass through a HDMI switch (should be HDMI 2.0 but still..) and a soundbar (also HDMI 2.0), so I will check it tomorrow with a direct connection. If someone care to share his/hers color settings it would be great.
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post #167 of 473 Old 12-19-2018, 01:44 PM
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I've tried everything to get 3d to work in anything other than 3dtv play, where my only options are 3dtv play or checkerboard. Some step by step instructions from optoma would be awesome.
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post #168 of 473 Old 12-19-2018, 02:06 PM
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Any word on black levels?
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post #169 of 473 Old 12-20-2018, 12:48 PM
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So I tried everything last night again to get 3d to work at more than 1080p 24 with no luck. Black levels are what you should expect on a pj with all these features for the price you pay, entry level. Although I will say now that I have 125 hours on the bulb, the contrast looks better now than it did when the bulb was brand new. Just slightly.
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post #170 of 473 Old 12-20-2018, 05:19 PM
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I'm considering this projector for my basement media room as soon as it's finished. I'm a little rainbow sensitive, how does this model perform in that regard? Anyone know the wheel speed? Thanks!
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post #171 of 473 Old 12-20-2018, 08:38 PM
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I'm considering this projector for my basement media room as soon as it's finished. I'm a little rainbow sensitive, how does this model perform in that regard? Anyone know the wheel speed? Thanks!
Since it has an RYGCWB color wheel it would effectively be half the speed of an RGBRGB color wheel as doubling the number of RGB color segments effectively doubles color wheel speed. That's why RGBRGB color wheels are best for those who are sensitive to DLP rainbows.
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post #172 of 473 Old 12-22-2018, 12:33 PM
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Guys I have a BenQ W1000 that I use on an acoustically transparent 106" screen in a fully light controlled room for movies / TV. I don't game and the source is an AppleTV. I have a new 4k AppleTV sitting under the Christmas tree as I wanted ATMOS support but now that's also got me thinking about a projector upgrade. I'm reasonably happy with the BenQ W1000 but do find I wish I had better black levels. I know my AT Screen hurts resolution as I've projected the BenQ onto a painted screen prior to using the AT screen so moving to 4K seems a waste at this time which is why the HD27HDR caught my attention. Do you think I'd find it a jump in image quality of the BenQ or should I go with the tried and true 2050A that everyone seems to love?

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post #173 of 473 Old 12-26-2018, 03:45 PM
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I am really loving this projector, it may be my favorite one I've owned so far. I see a few rainbows every now and then but not too bad. that's my only complaint really, well that and the high pitched whine that I can hear when no audio is playing. but for the $$ this thing is amazing. I've already covered the features which are all pretty good, very good for the price! I've taken more pics I thought I'd share. the review was just posted to pc. https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...HDR-Review.htm
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post #174 of 473 Old 12-26-2018, 06:33 PM
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So, I got this projector as a freeby (yay!) and I have a few remarks.


For one, I do notice the rainbow effect very heavily when my eyes move around the screen (I use a 117" 21:9 AT spandex screen, see here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...l#post57328884 ). This is probably made worse by the size of the screen and my short seating distance (7 or 8 feet).


Then, I have been using the Eco+ mode to prolong the lamp life. It does make the picture a bit darker, but I have a light controlled room. The projector does ramp the fan up and down quite a bit in that mode, depending on the picture content brightness. This is quite audible in softer scenes. What mode is the best for good HDR, and how does a non-eco mode affect the lamp life?


Another thing I noticed, but I'm not really sure about, is that it seems to do some frame interpolation on 24 fps content. Movies do seem a bit "soap opera-y", but not as bad as on a LCD with default settings. I did not find any controls for such feature. Does anyone know if the projector (apparently running at 120 Hz, is doing a straight 5:5 pulldown, or does it add some processing?


Thanks!
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post #175 of 473 Old 12-26-2018, 07:36 PM
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It does no Frame Interpolation.

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post #176 of 473 Old 12-28-2018, 04:11 PM
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Adding my quick input, as I just got one.

First, reasoning for choosing it:

My prior projector is a Sony VPL-HW40ES. By most criteria, the Sony is unquestionably a better projector, so keep that in mind, but there are a few things that led me to try the HD27HDR instead: First, probably 70% of my usage is gaming, primarily PC. The Sony is really low lag already, but the reported numbers for the Optoma are better, and 120hz is a huge bonus for gaming, and honestly something I'd basically given up on ever seeing in a projector, but here it is. Second, I live in a small apartment so no dedicated room, and the living room is almost entirely glass on two walls. I have automated blackout blinds, but with so many windows even that means limited light control. So I'm thinking the boosted light levels will help more than the better color accuracy on the Sony. Next, HDR is nice and should add some good pop to newer games, and if 4k downscaling to 1080p isn't too much lag, then for less time-sensitive games rendering at 4k and downscaling to 1080p is effectively supersampling AA (I already do this some of the time using AMD Virtual Super Resolution and it works really well at jaggy elimination, but a lot of games aren't compatible). Also, I'm in an apartment that has a projector mount, but being an apartment it is where it is - no option to move.
Finally, I use it a LOT, and the Sony bulb life isn't as great as advertised - I've been through 5-6 bulbs, and after about 2000-2500 hours, the level of flicker has gotten intolerable every time. And yes that includes direct-from-Sony OEM bulbs, which were no better in my experience. Since the OEM ones didn't help the issue, I dropped down to cheap-o bulbs which were in the $100 range, so honestly it wasn't prohibitively expensive, but replacement is a pain... With this one the bulbs should be cheap even from OEM, and the bottom facing bulb replacement door will simplify that a LOT.

So with all that criteria, my real unicorn is a 4k laser in the 2500 actual lumen range, 120hz capable, with sub-20 input lag. Doesn't exist right now, even though all those specs exist independently, 4k low-lag is exceedingly rare and none I've found are lasers. Luckily this checks a LOT of those boxes already, and is quite inexpensive, along with fitting my needs for positioning. So, my expectation with this projector is to be an inexpensive stopgap that serves until the unicorn comes into being

My experience:

Installation was easy since I already had wiring, mount, screen, etc. - Mostly just adjusting the mount plate for the screws on the optoma and it was done.

120Hz It's just there, no problem, no firmware update needed. For reference, system fw is listed as "C03", and MCU "M04". For validation, I set the PC to output [email protected], then checked using frame skipping checker: ( https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping ) - and can confirm, no gaps or dotted lines, so it's projecting a true 120hz signal. Yay!

I see lots of questions in this thread about whether 120hz 1080p 3d works - I'm happy to try stuff if anyone wants to point out what to try. I have a few pair of dlp-link glasses coming Monday, have stereoscopic player and a few games that support HD3D, etc., but if the interest is in Nvidia's proprietary 3d I'm ... just not an nvidia guy, let's say , so can't help there. What I can say is this - I'm using AMD HD3D (which I believe frame-packed IIRC) - If I set to [email protected], open up the 3d THX demo vid in Stereoscopic Player 2.4.3 set to HD3d and full-screened, the projector would show the expected overlapped images and the res/refresh tag would show 38something by 20something at 24 (don't recall the specific res, but I'm pretty sure it's the normal for 1080p frame packed). If I set desktop refresh to 60, it still bumps to 24 when I full screen in stereoscopic player, and when I set desktop to 120 it just goes into 'searching' mode. Probably not very meaningful; I'm guessing this has more to do with how stereoscopic player decides what refresh to use, which in turn is likely a factor of HD3D specifically.

Lag - Starting with a baseline -- the old projector was reviewed to show 24ms lag ( https://www.projectorcentral.com/son...ge=Performance ). I'm testing against an Asus VS247 monitor that's got a published test of 11ms (per displaylag.com). I set the Sony into game mode, turned off all the bells and whistles, and took a series of measurements ( using: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php ) and throwing out any where the full numbers were not visible or were muddled - Differences were: .013, .019, .014, .015, .014 - average of 15ms, meaning my measurement would show 26ms. Close enough Now let's try this on the Optoma -- [email protected] non-HDR (because we need to clone with a 60hz display), 'enhanced gaming' on, .027, .014, .000, .000, .014, .014, .000, .014 -- Average of .010, so total measured lag of .021 (and since my old measurement was .002 over, more like .019)... Of course, at this low a level, screen-comparison lag measurement variances go through the roof since it depends where in the screen cycle the pic is taken. I guess the outtake here is that I can confirm it's fast!

One thing I really wish I could test is the 120hz lag, but since my weaksause method of lag testing involves cloning, I could only do that if I had a 2nd 120hz monitor, which I don't. So. hopefully it's even better? By logic it certainly should be - since a significant component of lag is the time it takes to actually refresh the physical screen, which at 60hz is between 0 at the top of the screen and 17ms at the bottom; at 120hz that bottom score drops down into the 8ms range. So I guess it depends on how you measure lag - From a tech spec perspective, the meaningful part of lag is the time between receipt of the top of the frame and beginning of frame draw, which is independent of refresh rate, but every means of measuring has some component of draw time. It's interesting that the more I learn about screen lag the fuzzier the definition of the spec gets! In any case, actual impactful lag, to a user, is phenomenally low for a projector (competitive with many gaming monitors), and even better (from a user impact perspective) if you bump to 120hz.

With all that done, here's another interesting test, though i'm going to preface this with a big, bold, I'M NOT CONFIDENT OF THE ACCURACY OF THE FOLLOWING TEST! So another thing I'd be interested in is how much lag impact the downscaling from 4k has. Again the trouble here is that I don't have a 4k monitor I can use as a cloned reference. But I do have an AMD card, which has virtual super resolution (where the video card renders at a set resolution, and scales down to match the display). So I set VSR on for the Asus monitor, set desktop to 1440P (for some reason cloning would fail when I set to 4k, but at least 1440p should still be downscaled, so it's worth a try), and tried again - knowing that this introduces an unknown: How much if any time is added by the VSR scaling. I believe it is nil-to-negligible, but I don't know that for certain so unless that gets confirmed, take these results with a grain of salt. What we're comparing here is the display lag of the projector, with the projector scaling, vs. the known display lag of the monitor (11ms), with the video card scaling (assumed 0 but not certain). Yes, this is a messy, messy test But the result are: .029, .029, .014, .028, .028 - so looks like this is more in the 40ms range when you add in the 11ms lag of reference monitor. Note on the unreliability of this test: If scaling on the reference monitor *does* introduce additional time, it would mean instead of 40ms it's some higher number, adjusted by the time taken by the VSR scaling process. Subjectively, I did some test gaming in 4k (forza horizon 3 and doom 2016) - The lag was just enough that, explicitly trying to feel it, I think I could tell in doom but probably wouldn't have noticed otherwise - In forza I couldn't tell at all. So subjectively the number seems consistent with the experience - in other words, for twitchy gaming and competitive online play you'd want to stick with 1080p (especially [email protected]), but 4k is very usable for single-player non-twitch gaming if you want to maximize visual appeal.


4k/HDR/HDCP: Next up, tried some 4k and HDR - I'm lumping those together because they're all kinda tainted by HDCP. Setting to 4k and playing back video worked fine, but the short of it is I could not under any circumstances get Netflix to play back in 4k (or HDR). I tried with both Edge and the netflix app, directly connected with new high-bandwidth HDMI cable direct from the PC to the projector, no luck. Windows does recognize HDR and opens up all the HDR options (in Display Settings, 'Play HDR games and apps' is on, and under 'Windows HD Color Settings', 'Display Capabilities' shows 'Yes' on all 3 - 'Stream HDR video', 'Play HDR games and apps', and 'Use WCG apps'). I'm on the top tier netflix subscription. Hardware is compliant (Ryzen 2700X & Vega 64 - some old web articles claim that you must have an Intel processor, but AMD states Ryzen has supported UHD netflix since May, and all drivers are fully up to date). My internet is gigabit, and tests to have ping of 3ms, up and down speeds over 400mbit... Yet Netflix details (alt-ctrl-shift-d) shows resolution at 1080p, always. I'm sure it's some software issue (thanks DRM asshats!), but whatever the reason I've been unable to test any protected content, which includes most 4k and HDR video. I have an XBOX One S coming in a bit and will try from there, likely with better luck.

Color Others have also mentioned washed-out color. And yeah .... coming from the Sony, which had amazing color, it's definitely a significant step back. However, out of the box it was *MUCH, MUCH* worse than it had to be. Two reasons for that: Windows, and brilliantcolor. So, BrilliantColor is probably the biggest culprit here. Such a piss-poor name for what it actually is -- It's brilliant*WHITE*, really. I don't claim to know in-depth how it works, but what it appears to do is extend the time with the white panel in the color wheel to give additional brightness. But frankly, it looks like ARSE. With my limited light control, I found it useful to have it turned up to 2 or 3 to counteract the ambient light (and accept some loss of color fidelity), but stock it was 5, I think?? WTF optoma! To any of you that don't understand what the others mean by washed out color, go here ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-blue_flag.svg ), then while looking at that image turn brilliant color up and watch it turn UGLY

Plus, another thing that contributes to the impression of washout is how Windows handles HDR. When you enable HDR in windows, it does some weird things to standard dynamic range content. I was tempted to turn off HDR altogether because I couldn't get standard dynamic range content looking good for a while. That was also before I figured out how much brilliantcolor was jacking with things... Once I got that set, and got the SDR brightness readjusted, the colors were OK. Still a disappointment coming from the Sony, but these are very different projectors targeted at very different usage, and this is a disappointment I pretty much expected (like being annoyed that your new WRX isn't as smooth a ride as your old Caddilac ) Also, note that yesterday I had a windows Update trigger that significantly changed what was in my HDR options. That was right in the middle of testing, so frankly I'm not sure if it was just a matter of MS moving things about or whether there was a real change to Windows' handling of HDR.


A few other minor complaints:

So one thing that's a mild but consistent annoyance, this projector is really slow to lock in a resolution. This was often annoying in testing, because each time you change res or refresh windows asks to confirm and if you don't within a certain time it reverts... often the confirmation would expire before I had time to confirm (only a second or two left when the screen finally got sync'd. Not a major thing, admittedly, but a small annoyance.

Also, others have mentioned audible color wheel whine, and yep, it's definitely audible. Constant drone at probably in the 16kHz range, so high pitched it's just right at the edge of human hearing. It's not loud enough that I can't tune it out, but it's there, definitely. When you first start the projector it 'spins up', and is much more audible in the first few seconds, but for me that draws attention to it and I notice it more as a result.

Finally, brightness uniformity is definitely down from what I'm used to - On white screen the left side is noticeably darker than the center, but while it's noticeable on a white screen, even then it's not severe, and on actual content I don't notice it.

On the other hand, the fan is audible, but it's still *almost* as quiet as the Sony (which is a freaking DREAM from a fan loudness perspective), and it's much smaller (which given the size of my apartment, even though I have tall ceilings, is still nice for making the room feel more open). Plus, with relatively cheap OEM bulbs and a bulb door that's accessible without un-mounting the projector, I expect to be happy keeping this in the living room until my unicorn springs forth from Zeus's forehead or whatever.



So yeah, this isn't ever going to be competitive with projectors that are more focused on picture quality, but it's got some MAJOR advantages as a gaming projector, and still look pretty great.

Oh and if anyone's interested in buying the Sony, PM me (especially if you're in Seattle and can save me figuring out how to ship this behemoth! )
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post #177 of 473 Old 12-28-2018, 09:56 PM
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Projector Central reviewed this model recently. They liked it.

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...HDR-Review.htm
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post #178 of 473 Old 12-29-2018, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post
Adding my quick input, as I just got one.

First, reasoning for choosing it:

My prior projector is a Sony VPL-HW40ES. By most criteria, the Sony is unquestionably a better projector, so keep that in mind, but there are a few things that led me to try the HD27HDR instead: First, probably 70% of my usage is gaming, primarily PC. The Sony is really low lag already, but the reported numbers for the Optoma are better, and 120hz is a huge bonus for gaming, and honestly something I'd basically given up on ever seeing in a projector, but here it is. Second, I live in a small apartment so no dedicated room, and the living room is almost entirely glass on two walls. I have automated blackout blinds, but with so many windows even that means limited light control. So I'm thinking the boosted light levels will help more than the better color accuracy on the Sony. Next, HDR is nice and should add some good pop to newer games, and if 4k downscaling to 1080p isn't too much lag, then for less time-sensitive games rendering at 4k and downscaling to 1080p is effectively supersampling AA (I already do this some of the time using AMD Virtual Super Resolution and it works really well at jaggy elimination, but a lot of games aren't compatible). Also, I'm in an apartment that has a projector mount, but being an apartment it is where it is - no option to move.
Finally, I use it a LOT, and the Sony bulb life isn't as great as advertised - I've been through 5-6 bulbs, and after about 2000-2500 hours, the level of flicker has gotten intolerable every time. And yes that includes direct-from-Sony OEM bulbs, which were no better in my experience. Since the OEM ones didn't help the issue, I dropped down to cheap-o bulbs which were in the $100 range, so honestly it wasn't prohibitively expensive, but replacement is a pain... With this one the bulbs should be cheap even from OEM, and the bottom facing bulb replacement door will simplify that a LOT.

So with all that criteria, my real unicorn is a 4k laser in the 2500 actual lumen range, 120hz capable, with sub-20 input lag. Doesn't exist right now, even though all those specs exist independently, 4k low-lag is exceedingly rare and none I've found are lasers. Luckily this checks a LOT of those boxes already, and is quite inexpensive, along with fitting my needs for positioning. So, my expectation with this projector is to be an inexpensive stopgap that serves until the unicorn comes into being

My experience:

Installation was easy since I already had wiring, mount, screen, etc. - Mostly just adjusting the mount plate for the screws on the optoma and it was done.

120Hz It's just there, no problem, no firmware update needed. For reference, system fw is listed as "C03", and MCU "M04". For validation, I set the PC to output [email protected], then checked using frame skipping checker: ( https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping ) - and can confirm, no gaps or dotted lines, so it's projecting a true 120hz signal. Yay!

I see lots of questions in this thread about whether 120hz 1080p 3d works - I'm happy to try stuff if anyone wants to point out what to try. I have a few pair of dlp-link glasses coming Monday, have stereoscopic player and a few games that support HD3D, etc., but if the interest is in Nvidia's proprietary 3d I'm ... just not an nvidia guy, let's say , so can't help there. What I can say is this - I'm using AMD HD3D (which I believe frame-packed IIRC) - If I set to [email protected], open up the 3d THX demo vid in Stereoscopic Player 2.4.3 set to HD3d and full-screened, the projector would show the expected overlapped images and the res/refresh tag would show 38something by 20something at 24 (don't recall the specific res, but I'm pretty sure it's the normal for 1080p frame packed). If I set desktop refresh to 60, it still bumps to 24 when I full screen in stereoscopic player, and when I set desktop to 120 it just goes into 'searching' mode. Probably not very meaningful; I'm guessing this has more to do with how stereoscopic player decides what refresh to use, which in turn is likely a factor of HD3D specifically.

Lag - Starting with a baseline -- the old projector was reviewed to show 24ms lag ( https://www.projectorcentral.com/son...ge=Performance ). I'm testing against an Asus VS247 monitor that's got a published test of 11ms (per displaylag.com). I set the Sony into game mode, turned off all the bells and whistles, and took a series of measurements ( using: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php ) and throwing out any where the full numbers were not visible or were muddled - Differences were: .013, .019, .014, .015, .014 - average of 15ms, meaning my measurement would show 26ms. Close enough Now let's try this on the Optoma -- [email protected] non-HDR (because we need to clone with a 60hz display), 'enhanced gaming' on, .027, .014, .000, .000, .014, .014, .000, .014 -- Average of .010, so total measured lag of .021 (and since my old measurement was .002 over, more like .019)... Of course, at this low a level, screen-comparison lag measurement variances go through the roof since it depends where in the screen cycle the pic is taken. I guess the outtake here is that I can confirm it's fast!

One thing I really wish I could test is the 120hz lag, but since my weaksause method of lag testing involves cloning, I could only do that if I had a 2nd 120hz monitor, which I don't. So. hopefully it's even better? By logic it certainly should be - since a significant component of lag is the time it takes to actually refresh the physical screen, which at 60hz is between 0 at the top of the screen and 17ms at the bottom; at 120hz that bottom score drops down into the 8ms range. So I guess it depends on how you measure lag - From a tech spec perspective, the meaningful part of lag is the time between receipt of the top of the frame and beginning of frame draw, which is independent of refresh rate, but every means of measuring has some component of draw time. It's interesting that the more I learn about screen lag the fuzzier the definition of the spec gets! In any case, actual impactful lag, to a user, is phenomenally low for a projector (competitive with many gaming monitors), and even better (from a user impact perspective) if you bump to 120hz.

With all that done, here's another interesting test, though i'm going to preface this with a big, bold, I'M NOT CONFIDENT OF THE ACCURACY OF THE FOLLOWING TEST! So another thing I'd be interested in is how much lag impact the downscaling from 4k has. Again the trouble here is that I don't have a 4k monitor I can use as a cloned reference. But I do have an AMD card, which has virtual super resolution (where the video card renders at a set resolution, and scales down to match the display). So I set VSR on for the Asus monitor, set desktop to 1440P (for some reason cloning would fail when I set to 4k, but at least 1440p should still be downscaled, so it's worth a try), and tried again - knowing that this introduces an unknown: How much if any time is added by the VSR scaling. I believe it is nil-to-negligible, but I don't know that for certain so unless that gets confirmed, take these results with a grain of salt. What we're comparing here is the display lag of the projector, with the projector scaling, vs. the known display lag of the monitor (11ms), with the video card scaling (assumed 0 but not certain). Yes, this is a messy, messy test But the result are: .029, .029, .014, .028, .028 - so looks like this is more in the 40ms range when you add in the 11ms lag of reference monitor. Note on the unreliability of this test: If scaling on the reference monitor *does* introduce additional time, it would mean instead of 40ms it's some higher number, adjusted by the time taken by the VSR scaling process. Subjectively, I did some test gaming in 4k (forza horizon 3 and doom 2016) - The lag was just enough that, explicitly trying to feel it, I think I could tell in doom but probably wouldn't have noticed otherwise - In forza I couldn't tell at all. So subjectively the number seems consistent with the experience - in other words, for twitchy gaming and competitive online play you'd want to stick with 1080p (especially [email protected]), but 4k is very usable for single-player non-twitch gaming if you want to maximize visual appeal.


4k/HDR/HDCP: Next up, tried some 4k and HDR - I'm lumping those together because they're all kinda tainted by HDCP. Setting to 4k and playing back video worked fine, but the short of it is I could not under any circumstances get Netflix to play back in 4k (or HDR). I tried with both Edge and the netflix app, directly connected with new high-bandwidth HDMI cable direct from the PC to the projector, no luck. Windows does recognize HDR and opens up all the HDR options (in Display Settings, 'Play HDR games and apps' is on, and under 'Windows HD Color Settings', 'Display Capabilities' shows 'Yes' on all 3 - 'Stream HDR video', 'Play HDR games and apps', and 'Use WCG apps'). I'm on the top tier netflix subscription. Hardware is compliant (Ryzen 2700X & Vega 64 - some old web articles claim that you must have an Intel processor, but AMD states Ryzen has supported UHD netflix since May, and all drivers are fully up to date). My internet is gigabit, and tests to have ping of 3ms, up and down speeds over 400mbit... Yet Netflix details (alt-ctrl-shift-d) shows resolution at 1080p, always. I'm sure it's some software issue (thanks DRM asshats!), but whatever the reason I've been unable to test any protected content, which includes most 4k and HDR video. I have an XBOX One S coming in a bit and will try from there, likely with better luck.

Color Others have also mentioned washed-out color. And yeah .... coming from the Sony, which had amazing color, it's definitely a significant step back. However, out of the box it was *MUCH, MUCH* worse than it had to be. Two reasons for that: Windows, and brilliantcolor. So, BrilliantColor is probably the biggest culprit here. Such a piss-poor name for what it actually is -- It's brilliant*WHITE*, really. I don't claim to know in-depth how it works, but what it appears to do is extend the time with the white panel in the color wheel to give additional brightness. But frankly, it looks like ARSE. With my limited light control, I found it useful to have it turned up to 2 or 3 to counteract the ambient light (and accept some loss of color fidelity), but stock it was 5, I think?? WTF optoma! To any of you that don't understand what the others mean by washed out color, go here ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-blue_flag.svg ), then while looking at that image turn brilliant color up and watch it turn UGLY

Plus, another thing that contributes to the impression of washout is how Windows handles HDR. When you enable HDR in windows, it does some weird things to standard dynamic range content. I was tempted to turn off HDR altogether because I couldn't get standard dynamic range content looking good for a while. That was also before I figured out how much brilliantcolor was jacking with things... Once I got that set, and got the SDR brightness readjusted, the colors were OK. Still a disappointment coming from the Sony, but these are very different projectors targeted at very different usage, and this is a disappointment I pretty much expected (like being annoyed that your new WRX isn't as smooth a ride as your old Caddilac ) Also, note that yesterday I had a windows Update trigger that significantly changed what was in my HDR options. That was right in the middle of testing, so frankly I'm not sure if it was just a matter of MS moving things about or whether there was a real change to Windows' handling of HDR.


A few other minor complaints:

So one thing that's a mild but consistent annoyance, this projector is really slow to lock in a resolution. This was often annoying in testing, because each time you change res or refresh windows asks to confirm and if you don't within a certain time it reverts... often the confirmation would expire before I had time to confirm (only a second or two left when the screen finally got sync'd. Not a major thing, admittedly, but a small annoyance.

Also, others have mentioned audible color wheel whine, and yep, it's definitely audible. Constant drone at probably in the 16kHz range, so high pitched it's just right at the edge of human hearing. It's not loud enough that I can't tune it out, but it's there, definitely. When you first start the projector it 'spins up', and is much more audible in the first few seconds, but for me that draws attention to it and I notice it more as a result.

Finally, brightness uniformity is definitely down from what I'm used to - On white screen the left side is noticeably darker than the center, but while it's noticeable on a white screen, even then it's not severe, and on actual content I don't notice it.

On the other hand, the fan is audible, but it's still *almost* as quiet as the Sony (which is a freaking DREAM from a fan loudness perspective), and it's much smaller (which given the size of my apartment, even though I have tall ceilings, is still nice for making the room feel more open). Plus, with relatively cheap OEM bulbs and a bulb door that's accessible without un-mounting the projector, I expect to be happy keeping this in the living room until my unicorn springs forth from Zeus's forehead or whatever.



So yeah, this isn't ever going to be competitive with projectors that are more focused on picture quality, but it's got some MAJOR advantages as a gaming projector, and still look pretty great.

Oh and if anyone's interested in buying the Sony, PM me (especially if you're in Seattle and can save me figuring out how to ship this behemoth! )
*sigh* - guess I need to make a revision. My wife came home today and immediately started looking around, asking, "what the hell is that noise? It's driving me insane!" Within a few minutes she determined it was the projector. I can hear the whine, but it's low and I'm able to tune it out... but she's apparently able to hear it much more clearly, and can't stand being in the same room with it

Guess I'll get in touch with Optoma to see if I can just treat it as warranty. Hopefully it's just a faulty unit...
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post #179 of 473 Old 12-29-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp View Post
*sigh* - guess I need to make a revision. My wife came home today and immediately started looking around, asking, "what the hell is that noise? It's driving me insane!" Within a few minutes she determined it was the projector. I can hear the whine, but it's low and I'm able to tune it out... but she's apparently able to hear it much more clearly, and can't stand being in the same room with it

Guess I'll get in touch with Optoma to see if I can just treat it as warranty. Hopefully it's just a faulty unit...
So still doing some playing around while I decide what to do about the whine... and the more I play the more I hope this is just a single defective unit...

I managed to get cloned desktop to work in 120hz, and the projector BEATS the reference monitor! Most of the pics are matched, but in a couple the projector is ahead by a frame, such as the 10.591 on projector that's 10.563 just starting to shift to 10.591 on the reference monitor - https://photos.app.*******/5bamgDnSuUTD85Vv9

So I can confirm, 120hz lag is a tiny smidge lower than the reference monitor, which is published at 11ms, so the 8ms figure is consistent with my testing.

EDIT: ... link doesn't work as the forum doesn't like google's album sharing URL apparently. Replace the "*"'s with "goo (DOT) gl"


Forgive the potato phone, it's what I had handy.

Think I'm going to just try a quick exchange via Amazon in hopes of quick resolution for the whine...

Last edited by defiancecp; 12-29-2018 at 05:07 PM.
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post #180 of 473 Old 12-30-2018, 02:13 PM
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And one more addendum: as expected the xbox was able to play netflix 4k hdr with zero drama. I'll worry about making the PC happy with hdcp2.2 later; Netflix is really the only thing impacted for me and I can watch that on the xbox so no issues.

Replacement projector from Amazon should be here tomorrow by 9 so I'll be able to see if this piercing noise is consistent across multiple units or if mine was just a faulty one. As much as I love this thing I really hope for the latter.
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