New Optoma 1080p HDR10 0.65 projector: HD27HDR - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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New Optoma 1080p HDR10 0.65 projector: HD27HDR

Folks may find this interesting. Takes HDMI2.0 HDCP2.2 4K inputs.
https://www.optoma.com/us/product/hd27hdr/
Retailer has it at the pre-order price of $650
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post #2 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 10:02 AM
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Sounds good.

Now change the lamp to HLD LED v2.0 light source to this chassis and everything is perfect.

:-)
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post #3 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springroll2000 View Post
Folks may find this interesting. Takes HDMI2.0 HDCP2.2 4K inputs.
https://www.optoma.com/us/product/hd27hdr/
Retailer has it at the pre-order price of $650
16ms input lag, if true then this could be a solid HDR gaming projector. I was wondering when someone will come up with a 1080p HDR projector, I added to my watchlist, we'll se how it will perform.

Last edited by fatallerror; 09-05-2018 at 10:27 AM.
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post #4 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
16ms input lag, if true then this could be a solid HDR gaming projector. I was wondering when someone will come up with a 1080p HDR projector, I added to my watchlist, we'll se how it will perform.
Just for clarification, the source needs to be 1080p HDR for Enhanced Gaming Mode to work. It does not work when fed a 4K source. However, the Xbox One and PS4 should let you select 1080p HDR as a mode, so yes its perfect for gaming. I had my PM perform extensive testing on it...
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post #5 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I am very curious about this projector now (more than UHL55 actually) - good price point plus the brightness with HDR and 4K downconversion.

Realistically, in terms of brightness, how do the two projectors compare for 4K, 4K HDR, and 1080p movies?
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post #6 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by springroll2000 View Post
I am very curious about this projector now (more than UHL55 actually) - good price point plus the brightness with HDR and 4K downconversion.

Realistically, in terms of brightness, how do the two projectors compare for 4K, 4K HDR, and 1080p movies?
UHL55 is 1,500 lumens, but its an RGBB LED so it might look brighter. However, the HD27HDR (HD27H in other countries) is 3,400 lumens and lap based, so most likely noticeably brighter.
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post #7 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 11:08 AM
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Very interesting for daylight use
I'm noobs, so forgive me for my stupid question.
It say is 1080p as native resolution and 4k as maximum resolution. It means the projector upscale?
Thanks

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post #8 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by robbynaish View Post
Very interesting for daylight use
I'm noobs, so forgive me for my stupid question.
It say is 1080p as native resolution and 4k as maximum resolution. It means the projector upscale?
Thanks
No. It means the projector will accept a 4K HDCP 2.2 input source, but display it as 1080p.
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post #9 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 11:51 AM
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Can it accept a 1920x1080x120Hz input? The documentation doesn't list it...

Pleeeeeease make it so and don't let all that HDMI 2.0 bandwidth go to waste. Actually, being picky it must be HDMI 2.0a if it supports HDR.

Acer are doing this with their new G550 : http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog...de-8-3ms-799e/

Don't miss an opportunity to make this a perfect gaming projector....It sounds great otherwise.
All we need on top of that is Freesync/variable refresh as well!
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post #10 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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No. It means the projector will accept a 4K HDCP 2.2 input source, but display it as 1080p.
Just exactly how good is the downscaling? I am mainly going to be using it for streaming 4K HDR movies and TV shows from the Apple TV and nVidia Shield TV (Android TV)
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post #11 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by russellhk View Post
Can it accept a 1920x1080x120Hz input? The documentation doesn't list it...

Pleeeeeease make it so and don't let all that HDMI 2.0 bandwidth go to waste. Actually, being picky it must be HDMI 2.0a if it supports HDR.

Acer are doing this with their new G550 : http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog...de-8-3ms-799e/

Don't miss an opportunity to make this a perfect gaming projector....It sounds great otherwise.
All we need on top of that is Freesync/variable refresh as well!
It cannot accept 120 Hz input.

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Just exactly how good is the downscaling? I am mainly going to be using it for streaming 4K HDR movies and TV shows from the Apple TV and nVidia Shield TV (Android TV)
I have not seen it personally, but my colleagues claim its a tad sharper than native 1080p content.
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post #12 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 01:40 PM
 
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16ms input lag, if true then this could be a solid HDR gaming projector. I was wondering when someone will come up with a 1080p HDR projector, I added to my watchlist, we'll se how it will perform.
I was super excited about this projector until I read the manual, it doesn't appear to support 1080p at 120hz on the HDMI 2.0 input, at least not officially, which is ridiculous since many other 1080p DLPs with HDMI 2.0 do at this point. Still, it might indeed support it so I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

A 0.65 inch 1080p DLP with 16ms input lag, IR-based 3D port, and 3400 lumens at this price is a ridiculously good deal.

If only they supported 120hz and its native contrast measures above 2000:1, this will be a much better HDR10 display IMO than any of the 0.47 or 0.66 XPR DLPs.
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post #13 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 01:44 PM
 
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It cannot accept 120 Hz input.
That is really too bad! I would've bought this, it's exactly the specs I was after otherwise.

Can you ask the engineers if they can add 1080p 120hz on the HDMI 2.0 port via a firmware update? Pretty please?

Many of other HDMI 2.0 projectors support 120hz. This is really disappointing, as it's the only 16ms HDR-compatible projector on the market, and should have 2000:1 native contrast if we're going by other DC3 chip DLPs.
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post #14 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
That is really too bad! I would've bought this, it's exactly the specs I was after otherwise.

Can you ask the engineers if they can add 1080p 120hz on the HDMI 2.0 port via a firmware update? Pretty please?

Many of other HDMI 2.0 projectors support 120hz. This is really disappointing, as it's the only 16ms HDR-compatible projector on the market, and should have 2000:1 native contrast if we're going by other DC3 chip DLPs.
I don't think its a firmware issue. The 0.65" 4K DMD operates at 120 Hz to generate a 60 Hz 4K image while the 0.47" 4K DMD operates at 240 Hz.
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post #15 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 05:35 PM
 
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I don't think its a firmware issue. The 0.65" 4K DMD operates at 120 Hz to generate a 60 Hz 4K image while the 0.47" 4K DMD operates at 240 Hz.
I guess I misunderstood what this projector was doing. It must be possible to disable XPR shifting and just run in 1080p natively when fed 1080p input content in 1:1, right?

It's fine if the engineers didn't think about it, but honestly I'd much rather 120hz at 1080p in 1:1 than simulated 4K using a DC3 1080p DMD shifted once diagonally, which isn't going to be that much better than raw 1080p.

HDR at 1080p 120hz would be the ultimate for gaming on. If there'd be a way to use switch to IR-based 3D mode at 1080p in 60hz frame sequential (120hz), on the HDMI 2.0 port, that'd be great.

I guess the 3D capability is via different electronics attached to the HDMI 1.4 ports and not the HDMI 2.0 ports? Because if 4K60 can be passed to this projector on the HDMI 2.0 port, then the same scaler can probably accept a 1080p 120hz signal.

I suppose what I'm asking you is, is it possible to add a 1080p60 frame sequential 3D mode aka 1080p120 to the HDMI 1.4 input? Is it HDMI 1.4a or 1.4b? Either one should support 120hz, although not in 10-bit for HDR10. This is too bad

Can you at least confirm the DC3 0.65 inch chip used here will have 1800:1 or better native contrast?
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post #16 of 395 Old 09-05-2018, 05:43 PM
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I don't think its a firmware issue. The 0.65" 4K DMD operates at 120 Hz to generate a 60 Hz 4K image while the 0.47" 4K DMD operates at 240 Hz.
I guess I misunderstood what this projector was doing. It must be possible to disable XPR shifting and just run in 1080p natively when fed 1080p input content in 1:1, right?

It's fine if the engineers didn't think about it, but honestly I'd much rather 120hz at 1080p in 1:1 than simulated 4K using a DC3 1080p DMD shifted once diagonally, which isn't going to be that much better than raw 1080p.

HDR at 1080p 120hz would be the ultimate for gaming on. If there'd be a way to use switch to IR-based 3D mode at 1080p in 60hz frame sequential (120hz), on the HDMI 2.0 port, that'd be great.

I guess the 3D capability is via different electronics attached to the HDMI 1.4 ports and not the HDMI 2.0 ports? Because if 4K60 can be passed to this projector on the HDMI 2.0 port, then the same scaler can probably accept a 1080p 120hz signal.

I suppose what I'm asking you is, is it possible to add a 1080p60 frame sequential 3D mode aka 1080p120 to the HDMI 1.4 input? Is it HDMI 1.4a or 1.4b? Either one should support 120hz, although not in 10-bit for HDR10. This is too bad [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]

Can you at least confirm the DC3 0.65 inch chip used here will have 1800:1 or better native contrast?
There is no XPR technology used in the HD27HDR, it is a native 1080p projector and not one of our UHD models that can display 8.3-million discrete addressable pixels simultaneously on screen at once, as per the CTA's definition of 4K UHD.

It does support 3D with DLP-Link 3D glasses. It cannot accept a 1080p120Hz signal, it'll just show an out of range error when you try to feed it such. It has a 3D Sync output if you have your own IR emitter as well.

It also supports the usual frame-packed Blu-ray 3D, over-under and side-by-side formats, which are not 120 Hz signals.
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post #17 of 395 Old 09-06-2018, 08:29 AM
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… one of our UHD models that can display 8.3-million discrete addressable pixels simultaneously on screen at once, as per the CTA's definition of 4K UHD. ...
You have been a valued spokesperson for Optoma on this forum and we really appreciate all your good input. But you really need to consult with your engineering department on your choice of wording above. No pixel shifter displays 8.3-million pixels simultaneously on the screen at once. Those pixels are only perceived to all be on the screen at once because they are shifted back and forth so rapidly. By definition a beam shifting actuator like XPR cannot be in more than one position at any given microsecond.
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post #18 of 395 Old 09-06-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
You have been a valued spokesperson for Optoma on this forum and we really appreciate all your good input. But you really need to consult with your engineering department on your choice of wording above. No pixel shifter displays 8.3-million pixels simultaneously on the screen at once. Those pixels are only perceived to all be on the screen at once because they are shifted back and forth so rapidly. By definition a beam shifting actuator like XPR cannot be in more than one position at any given microsecond.
If you really want to get into the technical aspects, sure there technically isn't 8.3 million pixels on screen at once. However, the XPR tech works at 120 / 240 Hz depending on DMD to generate a 60 Hz image. So to everyone's eyes, you see 8.3-million discrete pixels that are addressable at once, which follows the CTA 4K UHD spec, whereas non-DLP/XPR competitors cannot claim 4K UHD compliance.
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If you really want to get into the technical aspects, sure there technically isn't 8.3 million pixels on screen at once. However, the XPR tech works at 120 / 240 Hz depending on DMD to generate a 60 Hz image. So to everyone's eyes, you see 8.3-million discrete pixels that are addressable at once, which follows the CTA 4K UHD spec, whereas non-DLP/XPR competitors cannot claim 4K UHD compliance.
Well, it is the AV Science Forum after all, so many forum members do tend to want to get into the technical aspects more than if it were, say, the AV Marketing Forum. What you state above is accurate and corrects any misunderstanding that might have been generated by the previous less accurate wording. That's a good thing for maintaining your credibility with forum members who do pay close attention to the fine technical aspects.
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post #20 of 395 Old 09-06-2018, 10:45 AM
 
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240hz is well past the flicker fusion threshold, so it's not unreasonable to say "at once", thought technically it's not true, it's kind of true from the perspective of human perception. Since we aren't robots that see the world at 1000hz, or even at any exact framerate (our vision is framerate-less, but still temporally limited in terms of frequencies).

Tuan, please, if you talk to the engineers there, please get them to release a 1080p 120hz version of this projector with HDMI 2.0a inputs. All DC3 projectors can technically do 120hz, including this one, since 720p120 is supported, and that content has to be upscaled internally so in reality, this projector can definitely display 1920 x 1080 pixels at 120hz, it's just limited by a signal path that is needlessly limited. The 0.47 inch DLPs that do 240hz internally have dual DMD controllers adding up to 600 Mhz pixel clock (300 Mhz each), so if you even had one of those same modern controllers in this particular projector, you'd be able to show 300 Mhz content, which is what 1080p 120hz in HDR10 is, basically.

This is all academic, and I did recommend this projector via a blog post I wrote on Blurbusters.com, for console or PC gamers on a budget. It's a toss-up as to whether the Acer G550 is a better buy, given that one doesn't support HDR (AFAIK...does it?). I'm not sure how much 8.3ms is that much better than 16ms, but 120hz is clearly a massive improvement over 60hz, and for fast action videogames much more noticeable and important than simulated 4K is, any day.

Still, I love HDR too, so it bugs me after waiting all this time to upgrade my 1080p projector, I still am forced to decide between low contrast faux-K with 50-80ms lag, 120hz support without HDR, or HDR support without 120hz. Only the latter two are worthwhile upgrades, but I think I will wait for a projector that offers me 1080p 120hz HDR10 with low lag (16ms or less).

As an engineer, I would be remiss if I didn't at least say it's worth nudging the engineers at Optoma to support 120hz somehow, and Acer to add HDR10 decoding somehow. Seriously, all these projectors support SDR in 10-bit and have enough bandwidth to pass it, even at 1080p 120hz I believe, and the main difference between SDR and HDR on a projector is the dithering pattern used and the lookup-table. DLPs are linear light modulators so adding a new dithering table and EDID mode should be as simple as adding a new value for Gamma decoding, like 2.7, to the menu. I've seen firmware updates on my w1070 in years past add extra refresh rates and 3D modes even years after the initial launch, so I think it's in the realm of possibility. If the Acer adds an HDR10 decoding mode I'm buying it. I'd much rather 1080p 120hz with 2000:1 native contrast and 8.3ms than Faux-K at 700:1 and 50ms lag, any day of the week. For one, it's easy to drive 1080p 120hz and maintain constant FPS and for fast action games will definitely be sharper than 4K60 due to less motion blur and persistence.

Anyway, thank you Optoma for pushing the envelope a bit. I do think this one has good value given its price and HDR10 decoding on a DC3 chip. Just for next year's iteration, please consider adding the features we gamers are asking for, plus lasers or HLD and P3 gamut. 1080p is fine for many of us. Low prices and great gaming performance and decent native contrast would make me upgrade in a jiffy.

This projector at least accepts 4K HDR signals and downscales inside the projector though, right? I don't see how HDR10 is going to be used otherwise, except for streaming sources like Netflix or games. And for consoles, I wonder is they'll output HDR at 1080p. Anyone know?
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post #21 of 395 Old 09-06-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
This projector at least accepts 4K HDR signals and downscales inside the projector though, right? I don't see how HDR10 is going to be used otherwise, except for streaming sources like Netflix or games. And for consoles, I wonder is they'll output HDR at 1080p. Anyone know?
Yes, it downscales 4K HDR to 1080p output. It can also accept 1080p HDR from compatible sources, too. The Xbox One X / PS4 Pro should be able to output 1080p HDR, which bumps it to 60 FPS instead of 4K30.
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Well, that's good then! Any insight about the measured native contrast? DC3 should be decent here.
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post #23 of 395 Old 09-12-2018, 11:18 AM
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When is it going to be released and shipping? @Tuan
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When is it going to be released and shipping? @Tuan
End of the month
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post #25 of 395 Old 09-12-2018, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Tuan - Thank you for continuously answering our questions. I have a few more as I am quite interested in the projector.
1. There's nothing special we need to do to feed 4K HDR source to the projector, right? I can simply set my device to output 4k 10 bit 2020 60Hz and it will just recognize it as such, and downscale it to 1080p. Correct?
2. When the content is HDR, does the projector recognize it and adjust the settings automatically? If projector is configured to be in HDR+ mode for SDR content, does it mean it'll switch back and forth between HDR and HDR+ mode on its own? I guess I am curious how it handles HDR and SDR.

Thanks!
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post #26 of 395 Old 09-12-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by springroll2000 View Post
Tuan - Thank you for continuously answering our questions. I have a few more as I am quite interested in the projector.
1. There's nothing special we need to do to feed 4K HDR source to the projector, right? I can simply set my device to output 4k 10 bit 2020 60Hz and it will just recognize it as such, and downscale it to 1080p. Correct?
2. When the content is HDR, does the projector recognize it and adjust the settings automatically? If projector is configured to be in HDR+ mode for SDR content, does it mean it'll switch back and forth between HDR and HDR+ mode on its own? I guess I am curious how it handles HDR and SDR.

Thanks!
1). Yes.

2). It should automatically switch to HDR if there's metadata, but let me double check with my PM.
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post #27 of 395 Old 09-12-2018, 11:40 PM
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Are there any plans for Dolby Vision support on any of your HDR-compatible projectors?
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post #28 of 395 Old 09-13-2018, 08:04 AM
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Are there any plans for Dolby Vision support on any of your HDR-compatible projectors?
I have not heard anything about it.
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post #29 of 395 Old 09-16-2018, 04:44 PM
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Tuan,

Does this projector have support for HLG? Also, what are the lumens for ECO mode?

Jack

Last edited by JackB; 09-16-2018 at 04:47 PM.
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post #30 of 395 Old 09-17-2018, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Tuan,

Does this projector have support for HLG? Also, what are the lumens for ECO mode?
I am also curious about the Dynamic mode - what exactly does it work for HDR (and HDR+) in relation to lumens? Is it recommended to use this setting? 12,000 hours of lamp life sounds great!
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