EPSON Pro Cinema 4050 4K HDR Projector First Impressions- CEDIA 2018 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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EPSON Pro Cinema 4050 4K HDR Projector First Impressions- CEDIA 2018

EPSON Introduces Pro Cinema 4050 4K HDR Projector at $2399 at CEDIA 2018! Sometimes leaps forward in technology are about making high performance more affordable, like the Epson Pro Cinema 4050 projector.

This is a very exciting projector. I liked what I saw and hope to get a review unit ASAP. The features packed into this unit for the money are tremendous.

Read more by clicking here: https://www.avsforum.com/epson-intro...99-cedia-2018/
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post #2 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 09:26 AM
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Somewhat off topic - is this it for PJs?

Sony JVC and Epson?

Was hoping for more in the budget space. Short throws or USTs


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post #3 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 09:45 AM
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This looks like a winner for my multipurpose basement. How does the feature set compare to the older 5040?

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post #4 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 10:03 AM
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Is this just regular 1080p two-way e-shift, or does it actually resolve the full 4K image like its DLP counterparts?
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post #5 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 10:30 AM
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Paragraph 4... ...ahem... "E-shift."
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post #6 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 10:40 AM
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They claimed it was a new more powerful eshift technology that was "superior" to other methods...

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post #7 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 10:41 AM
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It did look pretty impressive. I'd like to see it with more deep black scenes to really get a measure of the quality but overall it's a winner for the price.

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post #8 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
Paragraph 4... ...ahem... "E-shift."
...some might say he got it right

For the record, I currently take neither side as I have not had the opportunity to compare the technology with genuine full 4K.

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post #9 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 11:01 AM
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Isn’t this just an update to the 4040? Aka the pro version of the 4000? This isn’t using the UB panels of the 5040ub/6040ub, right?

Honestly, the extra warranty, lamp and mount are nice but... the 4000 is only $1600 right now. This hardly seems like an $800 improvement to me.
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post #10 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 12:14 PM
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Does anyone remember the gap between the announcement of the 4040 and the 4000 last time around? I have a TK800 but I'm still very interested in replacing it with a 4000 or its successor (mostly for motorized zoom but also for improved blacks)... but I'd probably take a deal on a discontinued 4000 over retail for a successor since it looks to still be a 10gbps HDMI chipset.

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post #11 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Isn’t this just an update to the 4040? Aka the pro version of the 4000? This isn’t using the UB panels of the 5040ub/6040ub, right?

Honestly, the extra warranty, lamp and mount are nice but... the 4000 is only $1600 right now. This hardly seems like an $800 improvement to me.
That's what I was saying in the other thread. It received a 12 bit processor instead of 10 bit, better contrast and supposedly new e-shift. But did not get the 18Gbps HDMI chipset, [email protected] HDR, or HLG of it bigger brother. Not even just one item. At least throw in the better chipset.

I don't get all this "praise" for this update. MicroLED and big screen OLED can't get here soon enough to put this pj market in check. No wonder these prices went up, when really they should be coming down.

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post #12 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
Does anyone remember the gap between the announcement of the 4040 and the 4000 last time around? I have a TK800 but I'm still very interested in replacing it with a 4000 or its successor (mostly for motorized zoom but also for improved blacks)... but I'd probably take a deal on a discontinued 4000 over retail for a successor since it looks to still be a 10gbps HDMI chipset.

Only thing you can do is wait for the pro reviews to come in and see if they can justify the additional $800 expense. If they would have put the new chipset on this, Tax time would have seen my money on it. Now, looking at the price of JVC R1000 and Sony 295, I would rather just put down 4k tax money down and finance the rest.

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post #13 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post
That's what I was saying in the other thread. It received a 12 bit processor instead of 10 bit, better contrast and supposedly new e-shift. But did not get the 18Gbps HDMI chipset, [email protected] HDR, or HLG of it bigger brother. Not even just one item. At least throw in the better chipset.

I don't get all this "praise" for this update. MicroLED and big screen OLED can't get here soon enough to put this pj market in check. No wonder these prices went up, when really they should be coming down.
Have to concur with OLED/LCD putting the PJ world on guard sooner than later.

One can already get a $1,200 75" and $3,500 85" 4K job.

Surely it cannot be that long until a 100 or 120" drops in the $5K range? Yes, I realize it's a big jump, but still. Surely they can make a 120" screen, sell it for $5-$6K, and make a sizable profit.

I mean even a 120" is "only" 5' H X 8 1/2' W, so most would have no issue getting one inside their home.

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post #14 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
EPSON Introduces Pro Cinema 4050 4K HDR Projector at $2399 at CEDIA 2018! Sometimes leaps forward in technology are about making high performance more affordable, like the Epson Pro Cinema 4050 projector.

This is a very exciting projector. I liked what I saw and hope to get a review unit ASAP. The features packed into this unit for the money are tremendous.

Read more by clicking here: https://www.avsforum.com/epson-intro...99-cedia-2018/
LMAO - you left the f out of e-shift! Freudian slip?
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post #15 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Isn’t this just an update to the 4040? Aka the pro version of the 4000? This isn’t using the UB panels of the 5040ub/6040ub, right?

Honestly, the extra warranty, lamp and mount are nice but... the 4000 is only $1600 right now. This hardly seems like an $800 improvement to me.
You are correct. This is just the new model to replace the Epson 4040. It is not a replacement for the Epson 5040.
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post #16 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 01:37 PM
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I am starting to gain interest in this because I don't want to push up to the $6K for the JVC N5 but want to upgrade from my old Panasonic AE7000. I wonder how much of an upgrade this would be. Also, where is the US version of the 9400 shown at IFA? That had a contrast ratio of 1.200,000:1 vs 200,000:1. My panasonic has 300,000:1.
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post #17 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 01:52 PM
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I am starting to gain interest in this because I don't want to push up to the $6K for the JVC N5 but want to upgrade from my old Panasonic AE7000. I wonder how much of an upgrade this would be. Also, where is the US version of the 9400 shown at IFA? That had a contrast ratio of 1.200,000:1 vs 200,000:1. My panasonic has 300,000:1.
I am with you, with technology vastly changing too quickly I don't want to dump 6-8K+ into a projector, it would be nice to see manufactures like Epson come in a a reasonable price, getting people buying in, and it's much less painful if you can get a new one in a few years lets say for 3K. I been looking at the new Sony 295 and this would be a nice option for the price. I would stick more money into a nice drop down screen etc..

If you watch the video, I love the fact they are doing a shoot out later today against the higher end Sony... It would be cool to see both of these hooked up too a game console as well. Anywhere their today gets a chance to see the comparison, please post. I very interested in this shoot out for sure...

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post #18 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 01:58 PM
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Try a web search for Epson Home Cinema 4010.
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post #19 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 03:07 PM
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Have to concur with OLED/LCD putting the PJ world on guard sooner than later.

One can already get a $1,200 75" and $3,500 85" 4K job.

Surely it cannot be that long until a 100 or 120" drops in the $5K range? Yes, I realize it's a big jump, but still. Surely they can make a 120" screen, sell it for $5-$6K, and make a sizable profit.

I mean even a 120" is "only" 5' H X 8 1/2' W, so most would have no issue getting one inside their home.

James
Damn.... I like your optimism and what not but there is NO WAY in HELL that 100 much less 120 inch TVs will be sold for $5-$6k price range I'd say for at least another 10-15 years.

Here's how I see things shaking out - once 8k becomes popular I think that 65 inch screens will become the new 55 inch price wise akin to what 4k TVs did for that size with the 65 being the "popular size for many."

With 8K I think that 75 and 85 will be the popular sizes with the price of 75 inches being around what most 65s sell for today and the 85s selling closer to what 75s are going for today.

I also believe we'll see some rare 90 inchers but those will still be priced very high and out of range for most except for lottery winners.

The thing with Tvs is that price tends to hike up drastically once you get past 65 inches.

For example here are prices currently as of right now on amazon for the Sony 900f

55 inch - 1298

65 - 1798

75 - 3289

85 - 5298

now I'm not doing any kind of advanced math equation here but the eye test tells me that the price differential going from 55 to 65 (gain of ten inches) is less than going from 65 to 75 (same gain of 10 inches) and then from 75 to 85 (same gain of 10)

If going from 65 to 75 was just a $500 increase as it is going from 55 to 65 and then another $500 to go from 75 to 85 I think most people here would jump for joy to be able to grab the 85 sony 900f at $2,798 ;-)

Now I know the z9d has a lot of cool features and what not but the price for that 100 inch version is just ridiculous. And then I think vizio had a 120 inch TV a couple years ago that was like $130,000

soooo I went on that looooong rant to say yea...... not happening any time soon.
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post #20 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
I am with you, with technology vastly changing too quickly I don't want to dump 6-8K+ into a projector, it would be nice to see manufactures like Epson come in a a reasonable price, getting people buying in, and it's much less painful if you can get a new one in a few years lets say for 3K. I been looking at the new Sony 295 and this would be a nice option for the price. I would stick more money into a nice drop down screen etc..

If you watch the video, I love the fact they are doing a shoot out later today against the higher end Sony... It would be cool to see both of these hooked up too a game console as well. Anywhere their today gets a chance to see the comparison, please post. I very interested in this shoot out for sure...
I am looking at 2.35:1 screen as well so the 295 would be out as well. I am curious if there is a shootout with the 4050 and the 295. I saw the 285 and the JVC 790 at my dealer. Either they had the Sony tweaked better or I just don't like that version of the JVC. Was it darker and had more color, yes. However, the motion looked funny compared to the 285. Also I just so crisper detail and that was with the Transformers 4 movie, not a game. People claim you can't see the difference, but I could. It was like a computer game with anti aliasing. It was just smoother and less detailed and again the motion didn't look right. I know people would recommend an older model JVC over the Epson, but I want to see this new Epson.

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post #21 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 03:34 PM
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Damn.... I like your optimism and what not but there is NO WAY in HELL that 100 much less 120 inch TVs will be sold for $5-$6k price range I'd say for at least another 10-15 years.

Here's how I see things shaking out - once 8k becomes popular I think that 65 inch screens will become the new 55 inch price wise akin to what 4k TVs did for that size with the 65 being the "popular size for many."

With 8K I think that 75 and 85 will be the popular sizes with the price of 75 inches being around what most 65s sell for today and the 85s selling closer to what 75s are going for today.

I also believe we'll see some rare 90 inchers but those will still be priced very high and out of range for most except for lottery winners.

The thing with Tvs is that price tends to hike up drastically once you get past 65 inches.

For example here are prices currently as of right now on amazon for the Sony 900f

55 inch - 1298

65 - 1798

75 - 3289

85 - 5298

now I'm not doing any kind of advanced math equation here but the eye test tells me that the price differential going from 55 to 65 (gain of ten inches) is less than going from 65 to 75 (same gain of 10 inches) and then from 75 to 85 (same gain of 10)

If going from 65 to 75 was just a $500 increase as it is going from 55 to 65 and then another $500 to go from 75 to 85 I think most people here would jump for joy to be able to grab the 85 sony 900f at $2,798 ;-)

Now I know the z9d has a lot of cool features and what not but the price for that 100 inch version is just ridiculous. And then I think vizio had a 120 inch TV a couple years ago that was like $130,000

soooo I went on that looooong rant to say yea...... not happening any time soon.
This.


I'm seeing a lot of comments about super large flatscreens (100"+) being affordable soon and while I am officially out of the prediction business... it's not happening. TVs have been stuck at 80" forever. We had an 82" TV a decade ago. The problem with super large flat panels is that, while an increase from 80" to 100" might not seem like a big deal in terms of diagonal measurement-- the 100" screen is OVER TWICE THE SIZE (AREA) of the 80"! Not only is the cost in materials more expensive but the shipping costs are vastly higher. Super large flat screens are going to be luxury items until OLED makes a break through and enables roll away screens OR micro LED drops in price and you'll be able to piece together smaller screens to form one larger screen as the do in digital signage right now. Until then, projection is the only way to afford a truly large screen.


And let's not forget-- this is a moving target. I have a 100" screen in my apt. 100" is now one of the smallest screens I'm seeing around here. 135" is now common and many members are pushing sizes over 150". These is one guy over in the TK800 thread that is using his projector to power a 240" curved screen! 4K and 4K simulation combined with more efficient light engines are now making these screen sizes possible. I have my doubts that 100" will be affordable anytime soon... but who cares if they can make a 100"TV affordable? The goalposts have moved!
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
I am with you, with technology vastly changing too quickly I don't want to dump 6-8K+ into a projector, it would be nice to see manufactures like Epson come in a a reasonable price, getting people buying in, and it's much less painful if you can get a new one in a few years lets say for 3K. I been looking at the new Sony 295 and this would be a nice option for the price. I would stick more money into a nice drop down screen etc..

If you watch the video, I love the fact they are doing a shoot out later today against the higher end Sony... It would be cool to see both of these hooked up too a game console as well. Anywhere their today gets a chance to see the comparison, please post. I very interested in this shoot out for sure...

But why are they doing a shootout between the Sony and their 2 year old 6040 (as he mentioned in the video)? Why not shoot-out against the new 4050? And where the hell is the 5050??
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Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post
MicroLED and big screen OLED can't get here soon enough to put this pj market in check. No wonder these prices went up, when really they should be coming down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Have to concur with OLED/LCD putting the PJ world on guard sooner than later.

One can already get a $1,200 75" and $3,500 85" 4K job.

Surely it cannot be that long until a 100 or 120" drops in the $5K range? Yes, I realize it's a big jump, but still. Surely they can make a 120" screen, sell it for $5-$6K, and make a sizable profit.

I mean even a 120" is "only" 5' H X 8 1/2' W, so most would have no issue getting one inside their home.

James
I agree that large OLED/LCD panels and/or microLED arrays will soon overtake the mainstream PJ market, but it will have the opposite effect on the price of PJs. When this happens, PJs will become a niche market for videophiles that must have super-large screens, AT screens with speakers behind them, or some real or imagined visual quality that's only possible with a projected image. As PJs become more niche, more manufacturers will drop out creating less competition and higher cost pressure for the ones that remain as they try recoup the R&D costs in the face of technological changes and shrinking market share. Over the last 8-10 years that I've been following the PJ market, probably half of the PJ manufacturers have already dropped out of the race.

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post #24 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 05:23 PM
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I agree that large OLED/LCD panels and/or microLED arrays will soon overtake the mainstream PJ market, but it will have the opposite effect on the price of PJs. When this happens, PJs will become a niche market for videophiles that must have super-large screens, AT screens with speakers behind them, or some real or imagined visual quality that's only possible with a projected image. As PJs become more niche, more manufacturers will drop out creating less competition and higher cost pressure for the ones that remain as they try recoup the R&D costs in the face of technological changes and shrinking market share. Over the last 8-10 years that I've been following the PJ market, probably half of the PJ manufacturers have already dropped out of the race.
This is the kind of thing that happens whenever an evolution occurs that diverges the path of the status quo.....

One crucial element that PJ's had over TVs was that of being able to achieve bigger sizes than what TVs can achieve, but once TVs close the size gap then things start to crumble and fall apart for the projectors.

The one thing that PJ's will have over TVs will be portability (but then of course if we are talking about mirco LEDs or foldable Tvs in the future then that also becomes one less feature as well
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post #25 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post
But why are they doing a shootout between the Sony and their 2 year old 6040 (as he mentioned in the video)? Why not shoot-out against the new 4050? And where the hell is the 5050??
Great question, after hearing his comments, I thought the same thing.. maybe to prove that even there 2 year old 6040 looks better than the current Sony model? Not sure..

the7mcs: Typically a PJ could outlast a TV, all depends on length of lamp life, but then again those are replaceable.. Plus much easier to chuck a 20lb PJ away verses having some one come and haul your 85" TV away. I would love to buy a 75" and do a drop down 120" screen for the big event stuff, best of both worlds.

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post #26 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 06:08 PM
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I've seen multiple comments on the AVSForum with people disappointed the 4050 doesn't support HLG which supposedly the 5050 will. When I looked into HLG at least in the U.S. it sounds like there is no time frame to provide any HLG content it is WAY down the road as in no dates set. Anyone know anything different re: why they care about HLG support? Many projector owners flip their projectors due to typically hugely expensive repair costs when out of warranty so just trying to wrap my head about why someone would care about HLG now.
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post #27 of 59 Old 09-07-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Have to concur with OLED/LCD putting the PJ world on guard sooner than later.

One can already get a $1,200 75" and $3,500 85" 4K job.

Surely it cannot be that long until a 100 or 120" drops in the $5K range? Yes, I realize it's a big jump, but still. Surely they can make a 120" screen, sell it for $5-$6K, and make a sizable profit.

I mean even a 120" is "only" 5' H X 8 1/2' W, so most would have no issue getting one inside their home.

James
i'd only ever go back to a fixed panel if it was somehow acoustically transparent. i'll happily give up picture quality to get the most realistic cinema experience and have the voices come from the actors mouths and not below or above the screen. crazy to me how people can put up with that.


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post #28 of 59 Old 09-08-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by serith View Post
i'd only ever go back to a fixed panel if it was somehow acoustically transparent. i'll happily give up picture quality to get the most realistic cinema experience and have the voices come from the actors mouths and not below or above the screen. crazy to me how people can put up with that.
Can you really tell the difference when the center speaker is 4" below a TV and you're sitting 10 feet away? Or did I misunderstand?

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post #29 of 59 Old 09-08-2018, 01:06 PM
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Can you really tell the difference when the center speaker is 4" below a TV and you're sitting 10 feet away? Or did I misunderstand?

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Yes, you can tell the difference. On a 4-5 foot tall screen the center would be 3 feet below the center of the screen, easily noticeable. Also if there are multiple rows it is difficult to get line of sight to speakers for the second row when the speakers are under a screen. This means the front row is acting as an insulated wall to the second row.
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post #30 of 59 Old 09-08-2018, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
I've seen multiple comments on the AVSForum with people disappointed the 4050 doesn't support HLG which supposedly the 5050 will. When I looked into HLG at least in the U.S. it sounds like there is no time frame to provide any HLG content it is WAY down the road as in no dates set. Anyone know anything different re: why they care about HLG support? Many projector owners flip their projectors due to typically hugely expensive repair costs when out of warranty so just trying to wrap my head about why someone would care about HLG now.
The answer is probably because there is likely to be broad use across multiple different media sources, especially for live broadcast/streaming events which is why the BBC and NHK were so focused on it. How soon and broadly HLG rolls out is certainly something to question but it would be rather disappointing if it happened sooner and the projector doesn't support it.

From Wikipedia:
"HLG is defined in ATSC 3.0, Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) UHD-1 Phase 2, and International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Rec. 2100. HLG is supported by HDMI 2.0b, HEVC, VP9, and H.264/MPEG-4 AVC. HLG is supported by video services such as the BBC iPlayer, DirecTV, Freeview Play, and YouTube."
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