BenQ W2700 / HT3550 Announcement and Owner’s Thread - Page 130 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3871 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfjer View Post
I'm still not sure what CA is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
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post #3872 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 07:34 AM
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Likely of no significance, but recently the HT3550 "Download" tab at BenQdirect has been empty of files, including FW 1.01. Possible indication of an updated firmware release?

ttps://www.benqdirect.com/ht3550.html
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post #3873 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 07:39 AM
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According to a German user here is the latest:


Changelog
v1.0.2:
. Add feature: HDMI Format to improve HDMI compatibility
. Add feature: HDMI EDID to improve HDMI compatibility
. Improve Motion Enhancer performance of 50Hz content
. Other Bugfixes and stability improvements
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post #3874 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 07:53 AM
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I am seriously thinking that something is off with the 4K UHD HDR on my unit. 1080p content is nice and bright, vidid, beautiful, etc. However, 4K HDR content is dull and the colors are meh and there is no pop. Sometimes the screen will brighten up and everything seems better but then is short lived.

I have tried Smart Eco which is brighter but the pumping effect is sooooooo noticeable and rather irritating. The same scene might alternate between three levels of brightness.

I have tried Normal with DI set to low and medium and the pumping effect is either over the top or DI doesn't seem to do anything at all.

I have a 55" 4K Fire TV next to it and took some pics for reference. You can clearly see how on the TV the whites are whites and the colors are way more detailed and vidid.

PJ is set to:

Gamma BenQ
HDR10
Brightness 55
Contrast 52

Screen is Silver Ticket White 110" Fixed Frame

Room Walls are Dark Grey and Ceiling is White

Mostly Light Controlled during day which the below pics were taken. At night, it's completely dark in the room.

Fire Stick 4K


Most settings on PJ are stock.
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post #3875 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
I am seriously thinking that something is off with the 4K UHD HDR on my unit. 1080p content is nice and bright, vidid, beautiful, etc. However, 4K HDR content is dull and the colors are meh and there is no pop. Sometimes the screen will brighten up and everything seems better but then is short lived. Most settings on PJ are stock.
I experienced this same condition last night during segments of Captain Marvel. I was struck by how muted the colors were at times and hadn't remembered the film looking this dull at the cinema. OTOH, I watched Valerian on Saturday night and that film was a visual and HDR showcase throughout, just beautiful...not so with Captain Marvel. I'm just wondering if my 25' high speed cable run may be too long? I've been thinking about running a RUIPRO fiber cable anyway. Might be a good time to try after FW 1.02 becomes available.

(I also really need to examine my 4K signal path closer to eliminate variables. I source 4K UHD from both a Sony X800 and Oppo 203 via a Marantz 7012. I watched Capt. Marvel on the Oppo and should have run it through the Sony, as well. But I watched Valerian on the Oppo and it looked great the night before?)

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post #3876 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by vombat View Post
(but much dimmer too, with WCG filter on)


Comments like this hurt my soul. Mostly because, with how much grief BenQ has received over it’s inclusion, I don’t see many manufacturers offering this going forward. Why spend the money to engineer and include a feature that people are only going to complain about?

The wide color modes cut lumens by a substantial amount. That’s the bad. The good is: depending on your room/screen the loss in lumens may not be a big deal and you’ll be able to take advantage of increased color space as well as better blacks. For sure: not everyone will be able to take advantage of the wide color modes. If you have a monster screen or grey screen or a challenging room then this feature will likely not be of use to you. But here’s the thing: you don’t HAVE to use it! I have an OK room— definitely not a theater— and a 100” 1.1 gain white screen. For movie nights I typically run he projector in the wide color mode with the bulb on ECO and the iris in Low. Typically I leave HDR brightness at 0 but, depending on the film, I might bump it up to +1. I have just over 100 hrs on the lamp so far so, as it ages, I may need to eventually bump up to normal (and put up with the fan noise).

Over the last few years the average lumen output of projectors has steadily and reliably increased. That’s a GREAT trend. But here’s the thing: you don’t always need that many lumens. In a dark room with decent light control you may find the added color space and deeper blacks a big advantage. For years I ran my Ht2050 in eco despite forum members roasting me for not using the contrast improving smart eco— the issue was smart eco was too damn bright for my ‘small’ screen and basement room. For me, the wide color mode is awesome because I finally have a way to scrub lumens without losing contrast— in fact I GAIN contrast.

To give you some examples of the improvement in contrast/color the wide color mode represents, here are some side by side shots I took of the HT3550 alongside the HT2050A in my comparison review:



Pictures are tough. While I can mostly control what that the camera is taking pics that are representative of what my eye is seeing— I can’t control your display or how YOU perceive the images. Still, this is a good representation of the advantages I find using the wide color modes.

I would challenge owners to give the wide color feature a shot. Just don’t set yourself up for failure— don’t switch in the middle of a film when your eyes have already grown accustomed to the brighter output. Your eyes and ears will always perceive the brighter/louder thing to be better. That’s how Bose sold speakers for years! try it with a movie you know from start to finish. Maybe bump the HDR brightness to +1 but then leave the settings alone until the movie is over. See if you feel the differences are worthwhile.

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post #3877 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I would challenge owners to give the wide color feature a shot.
What do you do about the ugly green over saturated picture it give you when you turn it on? Is this something that needs to be adjusted with calibration?

OTOH, WCG in Cinema D mode in 1080p looks very acceptable and doesn't totally destroy the PQ like it does in HDR10 mode...For me at least...I think something is wrong with my PJ and I am going to see what I can do to return it to BenQ for a replacement unit.

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post #3878 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I think the lens is still a highlight as it’s one of the reasons credited for why this projector is able to achieve more accurate color and higher contrast than competing DLPs. The CA is an unfortunate outcome of the zoom lens— leave the lens in it’s wide open position and no CA. Small consolation for those that need to mount their projectors further back but there it is.

I really believe the difference is in the pixel shift implementation. There were a lot of conversations about this back when the HT2550 and UHD50 first debuted. Just days of posting pics and comparing the results. @3DBob contributed a lot here. The verdict then was the Optoma produces a more clearly defined pixel grid and thus, up close, did appear sharper. Whether this was of any practical benefit once you stepped back a few feet and sat down remained a topic of discussion. What was weird was, depending on the shot, the BenQ sometimes looked like it was resolving more detail. Almost like it had more pixels even though those pixels were fuzzier with your nose pressed up against the screen. Of course, when taking pictures of a fixed resolution display with a fixed resolution camera and then viewing them on another fixed resolution display... who knows.



I have my lens in the wide open position and still have an unreasonable amount of CA. I want to contact Benq, but I want to be sure I'd get the new revision that's fixed the issue. Not sure when that's going to start showing up in the US. I had originally a May unit, and when they replaced it it was an April unit, so I don't feel confident I'd get anything better right now.
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post #3879 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 11:00 AM
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post #3880 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
What do you do about the ugly green over saturated picture it give you when you turn it on? Is this something that needs to be adjusted with calibration?



OTOH, WCG in Cinema D mode in 1080p looks very acceptable and doesn't totally destroy the PQ like it does in HDR10 mode...For me at least...I think something is wrong with my PJ and I am going to see what I can do to return it to BenQ for a replacement unit.


Yeah so this might be unit to unit variance or it could be perception.

The Ht3550’s image without wide color engaged, again to my eye, is very cool. It seems most displays these days are biased towards a cooler color temperature and that’s fine because that’s what most people expect coming from LCD and the like. To my eyes, the image doesn’t become green— it becomes far less ‘blue’.

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post #3881 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 12:23 PM
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@sage11x do you know if BenQ is NOT planning to implement vertical stretch for the 3550? As you probably are aware I'm waiting for the 5550 to receive an update for anamorphic support before purchase, but a bit surprised they wouldn't implement for the "little brother" at this time since it's on the radar.

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post #3882 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
What do you do about the ugly green over saturated picture it give you when you turn it on? Is this something that needs to be adjusted with calibration?

OTOH, WCG in Cinema D mode in 1080p looks very acceptable and doesn't totally destroy the PQ like it does in HDR10 mode...For me at least...I think something is wrong with my PJ and I am going to see what I can do to return it to BenQ for a replacement unit.
My first 3550 behaved like yours with WCG on. I exchanged it and my new one doesn't destroy the picture with WCG on. I still don't care for it as I need as much brightness as I can get with my setup so I leave WCG off.

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post #3883 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by theagent View Post
I have my lens in the wide open position and still have an unreasonable amount of CA. I want to contact Benq, but I want to be sure I'd get the new revision that's fixed the issue. Not sure when that's going to start showing up in the US. I had originally a May unit, and when they replaced it it was an April unit, so I don't feel confident I'd get anything better right now.


That is unfortunate.

I don’t think it’s a matter of a different revision though. Unfortunately you may just have a poor example.

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post #3884 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Comments like this hurt my soul. Mostly because, with how much grief BenQ has received over it’s inclusion, I don’t see many manufacturers offering this going forward. Why spend the money to engineer and include a feature that people are only going to complain about?

Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely thrilled about WCG feature and totally love that BenQ decided to include it - in fact this is the main reason why I was so interested in this projector. You don't need to convince me of benefits of WCG, this is the reason why I got OLED TVs (and WCG display in laptop and tablet) - I just love that panel is able to display those deep, lifelike, saturated colors.


The high cost of WCG in terms of lumen output is just something I did not anticipate, which is source of my salt and frustration, as my 110" screen is very grey (I would say it blocks at least 50% of light). My screen looks fantastic (compared to plain white one, as I have white celling, some non-ultrablack furniture, etc which generate a lot of reflections) in standard mode, where there is still plenty of lumens left, but with WCG it just becomes dull and uninspiring, even though I agree that color space is impressive - but it is just too dim in my environment...



I *really* want WCG and if lower lumen output is an unavoidable cost, I am absolutely considering repainting my screen with lighter shade of grey (20% or so).


And again, I would really be happy with W2700, if it just did not have this inferior resolution issue. In isolation I am sure it is OK, but it is just painful to see it side to side with UHD300X, after the reason I want 4K projector is to reap these sweet resolution benefits - not to mention insane CAs I had unfortunate luck to witness...


I absolutely hope that WCG catches on and will become mainstream feature in future projectors - and totally willing to give W2700 another try, as soon as they sort out this mess with lens softness/XPR quality (maybe even via firmware upgrade, if this is just a case of XPR behavior tuning?) and QCin general.
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post #3885 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith AP View Post
@sage11x do you know if BenQ is NOT planning to implement vertical stretch for the 3550? As you probably are aware I'm waiting for the 5550 to receive an update for anamorphic support before purchase, but a bit surprised they wouldn't implement for the "little brother" at this time since it's on the radar.


I’m about to update the HT5550 thread.

As far as I know there are no plans to bring an anamorphic mode to the Ht3550. It is something they are considering for the Ht5550 but, honestly, the priority is likely on getting that unit caught up with the HT3550 as far as iris functionality.

I can see this being added to the Ht5550. It’s a dedicated theater model and as such will have more buyers looking for that feature. But until I see a confirmation it’s all speculative at this point.
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post #3886 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by theagent View Post
I have my lens in the wide open position and still have an unreasonable amount of CA. I want to contact Benq, but I want to be sure I'd get the new revision that's fixed the issue. Not sure when that's going to start showing up in the US. I had originally a May unit, and when they replaced it it was an April unit, so I don't feel confident I'd get anything better right now.

This is my experience as well. In fact, I have got very little space in my cinema room and the projector is relatively close to the screen (there is just no way to move it further, it is next to the wall) and my lens is set to maximum zoom, to get any sensible image size (which apparently should be the most CA-friendly configuration?) - and all my CA drama has been ongoing with this exact setup.
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post #3887 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 01:00 PM
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If throw wasn't a issue i would probably have bought the Sony HW45 1080P projector as its harder to see the screendoor on these and its blacks and contrast would be a major upgrade+it should be sharper and have better colors than the W1070 as well
Sony isn't generally sharper than any DLP's, though there are likely some very rare exceptions.

The Sharpness of projectors generally goes like this (of course varies model to model, this is just an average):

Ultra High-End DLP's (20k+) > Mid-Range DLP's > High-End JVC's (10k+), High-End Sony > Sharpest Low End DLP's > Mid-Range JVC > Epson > Low-End Sony

It's not exact across all models, and sometimes even cheap DLP's clould leap ahead of high-end JVC/Sony, but it depends on the specific unit, this is just the average.
The big advantage of DLP is not having to play Russian Roulette as much, it can happen on a DLP but for different reasons and it's much less common.

If you are going for a Sony hw45, I'd suggest people to consider a used JVC instead, much better bang for the buck with something like a used RS-46.

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post #3888 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 01:28 PM
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So is there anyone out there who paid for this projector out of their own pocket and had a mostly positive experience?
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post #3889 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by vombat View Post
Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely thrilled about WCG feature and totally love that BenQ decided to include it - in fact this is the main reason why I was so interested in this projector. You don't need to convince me of benefits of WCG, this is the reason why I got OLED TVs (and WCG display in laptop and tablet) - I just love that panel is able to display those deep, lifelike, saturated colors.


The high cost of WCG in terms of lumen output is just something I did not anticipate, which is source of my salt and frustration, as my 110" screen is very grey (I would say it blocks at least 50% of light). My screen looks fantastic (compared to plain white one, as I have white celling, some non-ultrablack furniture, etc which generate a lot of reflections) in standard mode, where there is still plenty of lumens left, but with WCG it just becomes dull and uninspiring, even though I agree that color space is impressive - but it is just too dim in my environment...



I *really* want WCG and if lower lumen output is an unavoidable cost, I am absolutely considering repainting my screen with lighter shade of grey (20% or so).


And again, I would really be happy with W2700, if it just did not have this inferior resolution issue. In isolation I am sure it is OK, but it is just painful to see it side to side with UHD300X, after the reason I want 4K projector is to reap these sweet resolution benefits - not to mention insane CAs I had unfortunate luck to witness...


I absolutely hope that WCG catches on and will become mainstream feature in future projectors - and totally willing to give W2700 another try, as soon as they sort out this mess with lens softness/XPR quality (maybe even via firmware upgrade, if this is just a case of XPR behavior tuning?) and QCin general.


When it comes to conventional lamp based projectors, achieving a wide color gamut requires use of a cinema filter which, unfortunately, scrubs a lot of the projector’s potential output. This is true whether you’re buying a $1500 BenQ HT3500 or a $35,000 JVC RS4500. So, again, not trying to say what anyone should or shouldn’t like just trying to put things in perspective.

Yeah, I would definitely recommend the Ht3550 be used with a white screen. You don’t need crazy high gain— I think I mentioned I use a 1.1– but just moving from grey to white should help out a lot. This is not a bright room projector.

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post #3890 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 02:27 PM
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So is there anyone out there who paid for this projector out of their own pocket and had a mostly positive experience?
My overall experience has been positive. I'm willing to deal with a couple bugs which should hopefully be fixed with each new firmware.
I'll note as well that Benq has been very supportive.
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post #3891 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 02:36 PM
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So is there anyone out there who paid for this projector out of their own pocket and had a mostly positive experience?
Absolutely! - only ongoing issue (niggle more than issue) is fan noise - just completed my second firmware update as it is now available but my projector has been running really well since I first installed it.
The initial common faults of not remembering settings and split screen colour variance have long gone, fixed by the first firmware update and focus uniformity is very good - chromic aberration is only visible if I get really close to my screen.

I run a 120" grey motorized screen in a reasonably light controlled room and run with WCG filter on for HDR content with acceptable brightness levels.

As mentioned before, people mostly post on the forums if they are having problems so it's not surprising to see lots of negative posts …. those who are happy rarely do!
To sum up, if you took my projector away and gave me my money back I would buy another W2700 without hesitation - definitely no buyers remorse here.
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post #3892 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 02:53 PM
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So is there anyone out there who paid for this projector out of their own pocket and had a mostly positive experience?
Yes, I am happy with mine, no major issues.
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post #3893 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 05:24 PM
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Here is an interesting video about 4k disc quality if people missed it in the other threads...


As far as too much CA, people also need to make sure their receivers are not adding CA, for Denons it can add it as a Chroma error. The issue looks exactly like 'extra CA' when it is really a chroma issue. You fix it on some Denons by disabling the overlay. For instance, even on my old 1080p projector, the Denon adds aberrations that look identical to CA if the volume overlay is enabled since it is processing the picture, my Onkyo worked fine though. I am sure the problem is receiver > projector specific to some degree, but seems the Denon is very likely to do this on multiple projectors.

My Denon AVR-x3400h was adding chromatic abberation to both my older JVC and Benq w7000 DLP.

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post #3894 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 05:53 PM
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Here is an interesting video about 4k disc quality if people missed it in the other threads...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSZ-yFTSmfY



As far as too much CA, people also need to make sure their receivers are not adding CA, for Denons it can add it as a Chroma error. The issue looks exactly like 'extra CA' when it is really a chroma issue. You fix it on some Denons by disabling the overlay. For instance, even on my old 1080p projector, the Denon adds aberrations that look identical to CA if the volume overlay is enabled since it is processing the picture, my Onkyo worked fine though. I am sure the problem is receiver > projector specific to some degree, but seems the Denon is very likely to do this on multiple projectors.



My Denon AVR-x3400h was adding chromatic abberation to both my older JVC and Benq w7000 DLP.
Wow, great suggestion to try as I do use the video conversion for the overlay with my Denon x6200w. I'll experiment with turning it off and seeing if I notice anything!
About to update the firmware, just waiting for my lil guy to go to bed
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post #3895 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 06:07 PM
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Here is an interesting video about 4k disc quality if people missed it in the other threads...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSZ-yFTSmfY

As far as too much CA, people also need to make sure their receivers are not adding CA, for Denons it can add it as a Chroma error. The issue looks exactly like 'extra CA' when it is really a chroma issue. You fix it on some Denons by disabling the overlay. For instance, even on my old 1080p projector, the Denon adds aberrations that look identical to CA if the volume overlay is enabled since it is processing the picture, my Onkyo worked fine though. I am sure the problem is receiver > projector specific to some degree, but seems the Denon is very likely to do this on multiple projectors.

My Denon AVR-x3400h was adding chromatic abberation to both my older JVC and Benq w7000 DLP.
Yup it depends on the source material and a lot of times the source is 2k. I've noticed wild differences when it comes to comparing a variety of UHD movies. For example, Iron Man looks terrible. Oblivion is also meh vs the 1080p version. But then other ones like 13 Hours, Black Hawk Down, BR2049 are down right jaw dropping.

Off-topic, those of you who have played RDR2 on the Xbox One X; what are your in-game HDR settings?
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post #3896 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 06:18 PM
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Successfully upgraded firmware.
The test pattern is green now..Lol

Tried turning video conversion off then back on in the Denon and CA looks minimal either way but it's way harder to tell with this green test pattern.
Watched a few hdr YouTube videos and by golly it looks better with the wcg filter on!
Will experiment further.
Color filter on and off pics
sparky7, Samfield and jfjer like this.

Last edited by subacabra; 06-24-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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post #3897 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 06:34 PM
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Here is what you are looking for when it comes to Chroma error...

Denon Receiver adding outline around Small HTPC Text
(the blue & yellow looks like a camera error or CA, but it's not, it's a Chroma error)


Without Receiver (Direct Nvidia to Projector)

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post #3898 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 06:46 PM
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Here is what you are looking for when it comes to Chroma error...



Denon Receiver adding outline around Small HTPC Text

(the blue & yellow looks like a camera error or CA, but it's not, it's a Chroma error)





Without Receiver (Direct Nvidia to Projector)

Thanks! I have video conversion off for now. Def appreciate this!
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post #3899 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 07:52 PM
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Why would they change the test pattern to green, other than to hide evidence of CA? Are there any benefits to having a green test pattern?
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post #3900 of 4196 Old 06-24-2019, 09:12 PM
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Why would they change the test pattern to green, other than to hide evidence of CA? Are there any benefits to having a green test pattern?


Maybe less RBE.

Whenever I look at a white test pattern my eyes want to revolt and leap out of my skull. I’m not sensitive to RBE except for when you make me look at a bright white line grid on a black background.

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