BenQ W2700 / HT3550 Announcement and Owner’s Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 09:47 AM
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Hoping will be cheaper than the Optoma uhd51alv...
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post #32 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by robbynaish View Post
Hoping will be cheaper than the Optoma uhd51alv...


I doubt it will, it has almost every feature that the Optoma has plus a few additional features the Optoma doesn’t. In addition will have an upgraded dmd. Maybe the same price but likely a little more.
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post #33 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I doubt it will, it has almost every feature that the Optoma has plus a few additional features the Optoma doesn’t. In addition will have an upgraded dmd. Maybe the same price but likely a little more.
Generally at least in Italy Optoma cost always quite much than BenQ.
For example now the uhd51a cost about 1600 euro, tk800 and w1700 about 1100 euro. Let's hope
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post #34 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 10:12 AM
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post #35 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by robbynaish View Post
Generally at least in Italy Optoma cost always quite much than BenQ.
For example now the uhd51a cost about 1600 euro, tk800 and w1700 about 1100 euro. Let's hope


That’s a good thing. They are both good manufacturers, Optoma generally has a few more features while BenQ usually has better refinement and build quality. In most cases I prefer the latter.
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post #36 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 10:36 AM
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BenQ 2700 Announced

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Originally Posted by robbynaish View Post
Generally at least in Italy Optoma cost always quite much than BenQ.
For example now the uhd51a cost about 1600 euro, tk800 and w1700 about 1100 euro. Let's hope


That’s a good thing. They are both good manufacturers, Optoma generally has a few more features while BenQ usually has better refinement and build quality. In most cases I prefer the latter. Almost like Apple vs Android.
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post #37 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 01:23 PM
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If the contrast is as good as my W6000 or better then count me in. Was there any mention if this projector will do HDR?

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post #38 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 01:43 PM
 
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It definitely will do HDR, since the cheaper 2017 4K XPR projectors do.

What I'm curious about is how they're doing such high P3 coverage with a lamp, and if it's got a DCI P3 "cinema colour" filter like the Epson / JVC / Sonys do, what kind of lumens will it have when it's engaged. I've seen anywhere from 25% to 50% hit when P3 filter is active, and that number is worse the better the P3 coverage is.

I'm happy they solved the light border, but frankly that's a side nuisance. The very low native contrast levels of the 0.47 inch chips is the main reason I'm avoiding them personally. I would be interested to know if the revised 0.47 without the light border helps the contrast, even a little bit. If it can pull off 1000:1 that puts it close to the 0.66 chips. Still not great, but an improvement.
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post #39 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 01:45 PM
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I hope 3d will be full supported, even sbs
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post #40 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
It definitely will do HDR, since the cheaper 2017 4K XPR projectors do.



What I'm curious about is how they're doing such high P3 coverage with a lamp, and if it's got a DCI P3 "cinema colour" filter like the Epson / JVC / Sonys do, what kind of lumens will it have when it's engaged. I've seen anywhere from 25% to 50% hit when P3 filter is active, and that number is worse the better the P3 coverage is.



I'm happy they solved the light border, but frankly that's a side nuisance. The very low native contrast levels of the 0.47 inch chips is the main reason I'm avoiding them personally. I would be interested to know if the revised 0.47 without the light border helps the contrast, even a little bit. If it can pull off 1000:1 that puts it close to the 0.66 chips. Still not great, but an improvement.


Total guess here, but I have a feeling they put the cinema filter on half of the rgb/rgb wheel. This way if you want it of for higher brightness you could slow down the wheel and ignore the segments with the color filter coating. Kind of like the way brilliant color works.
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post #41 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robbynaish View Post
I hope 3d will be full supported, even sbs


My understanding is that it will. The TK800 which is very similar to the HT2550 got a 1.03 update that enabled the manual SBS 3D setting. Not sure if that hit the HT2550 yet though?

Regardless, the biggest issue with 3D on this gen of .47” projectors is that amount of time it takes to engage. I believe the 3D in the HT3550 will be automatic engaged similar to the W1070 and HT2050.

Interestingly 3D works so much better on the 1.4a HDMI port in 1080p in the HT2550 but both the HT3550 ports will be HDMI 2.0 so hopefully the 3D will be smooth

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post #42 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
Total guess here, but I have a feeling they put the cinema filter on half of the rgb/rgb wheel. This way if you want it of for higher brightness you could slow down the wheel and ignore the segments with the color filter coating. Kind of like the way brilliant color works.


I’m a fan of the Brilliant Color setting set to on. My 160” screen needs every lumen possible and BC offers a good middle ground of color and brightness.

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post #43 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I think given the fact that it will have an updated DMD it will have better contrast. ...
Someone mentioned that the updated S316 DMD is a running change on existing projector models that previously used the DMD that produced the annoying light border. If true they would have comparable performance. The dynamic iris would certainly provide better dynamic contrast.

EDIT: The above S316 reference is incorrect. Gregory on passioncinema.fr actually said the new DMD with the greatly reduced light border will be offered in other new models from multiple brands in 2019. I incorrectly thought I remembered that as a running change on existing models. My mistake.

passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/02/11/2018/benq-w2700-dlp-a-simulation-4k-puce-0-47-sans-cadre-lumineux/

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post #44 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Someone mentioned that the updated S316 DMD is a running change on existing projector models that previously used the DMD that produced the annoying light border. If true they would have comparable performance.


However in the technical document that you posted, the documentation still makes reference to a pond of micromirrors. I need to dig in more versus a cursory overview though. Where did you hear this?

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post #45 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Someone mentioned that the updated S316 DMD is a running change on existing projector models that previously used the DMD that produced the annoying light border. If true they would have comparable performance. The dynamic iris would certainly provide better dynamic contrast.


Key word there is “think”. I should change it to hope. I’m hoping the large light pond was responsible for the poor contrast. I won’t count on it but wouldn’t be surprised if there is a contrast improvement.
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post #46 of 4627 Old 11-03-2018, 06:20 PM
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However in the technical document that you posted, the documentation still makes reference to a pond of micromirrors. I need to dig in more versus a cursory overview though. Where did you hear this?
I was in error about the running change and have edited my post above with an accurate reference. It's my understanding that all of TI's DMDs have a pond of micromirrors. The original 0.47" XPR DMD for some reason just had more of an issue with the light border than other DMDs.
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I’m a fan of the Brilliant Color setting set to on. My 160” screen needs every lumen possible and BC offers a good middle ground of color and brightness.
Me too. Typically brighter seems better than more accurate colours, visually speaking, on a projector.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I was in error about the running change and have edited my post above with an accurate reference. It's my understanding that all of TI's DMDs have a pond of micromirrors. The original 0.47" XPR DMD for some reason just had more of an issue with the light border than other DMDs.
That's because the black level pretty much sucks on the newer chips vs the older ones. If the contrast had been the same this border problem would be basically invisible and thus moot, like it is on 0.65 inch DLPs.
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post #49 of 4627 Old 11-04-2018, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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That's because the black level pretty much sucks on the newer chips vs the older ones. If the contrast had been the same this border problem would be basically invisible and thus moot, like it is on 0.65 inch DLPs.


The border isn’t there because of the contrast, the decreased contrast I there, in part, because of the border. Chicken and egg.

That said I don’t mind the border on the current projectors. Next generation will be better though.

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Total guess here, but I have a feeling they put the cinema filter on half of the rgb/rgb wheel. This way if you want it of for higher brightness you could slow down the wheel and ignore the segments with the color filter coating. Kind of like the way brilliant color works.
I don't see how they can achieve a 94% P3 coverage with half the colour wheel being P3 native and half rec 709.

This projector is likely P3 native and rec 709 mode would be dimmer (the mirrors are never fully "on" even for pure white / red / green / blue inputs, encoded to rec 709). Which is appropriate for a 4K UHD HDR projector. If you want the brightest Rec 709 gamut just buy a 1080p projector.

I'm fine with the filter being always in the light path here, and if they can do 94% P3 with reasonable lumens via a lamp based projector then finally we can put to be the notion that we absolutely need LEDs to do decent P3. I'm not really sure how that meme got started, but lamps reach higher lumens than LEDs, maybe not HLD LEDs but certainly non-HLD.

So throwing away some (25-50%) of those extra lumens could likely give you something brighter than LED but still hitting high P3 gamut levels.
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post #51 of 4627 Old 11-04-2018, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleAxeVR View Post
I don't see how they can achieve a 94% P3 coverage with half the colour wheel being P3 native and half rec 709.



This projector is likely P3 native and rec 709 mode would be dimmer (the mirrors are never fully "on" even for pure white / red / green / blue inputs, encoded to rec 709). Which is appropriate for a 4K UHD HDR projector. If you want the brightest Rec 709 gamut just buy a 1080p projector.



I'm fine with the filter being always in the light path here, and if they can do 94% P3 with reasonable lumens via a lamp based projector then finally we can put to be the notion that we absolutely need LEDs to do decent P3. I'm not really sure how that meme got started, but lamps reach higher lumens than LEDs, maybe not HLD LEDs but certainly non-HLD.



So throwing away some (25-50%) of those extra lumens could likely give you something brighter than LED but still hitting high P3 gamut levels.


If they put it the cinema filter on the lens then it would be darker no matter what unless they have a complicated lens system that can move the filter in and out of the light path. Putting it on the color wheel would be a simpler and equally effective solution. In addition it could be completely bypassed simply by syncing the dmd on off angles with the desired color segments. I don’t know if this is what they’ve done but it’s certainly possible.
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post #52 of 4627 Old 11-04-2018, 11:04 AM
 
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I agree that it's pointless to apply two separate colour filters, one for RGB then one for the P3.

On that note, I came across this interesting German site showing they can boost contrast by 40-50% simply by adding a filter tuned to correcting the colours in the highest-measuring contrast mode:

http://cine4home.de/epson-tw9300-pro...er-glasfilter/

It makes perfect sense, as if you lose 40% of your lumens to correct the colours digitally, to the most accurate mode, then that must mean it's done by limiting the max brightness level of each primary to some degree. So if you use a filter which allows you to simply use the full bit depth range of each colour channel, then you've boosted the contrast since you can go brighter, but meanwhile the filter actually reduces the black level, hence the contrast is boosted by the same percentage that calibration loses it. Lots of DLP projectors start off at 2000:1 then in the best calibration mode drop to 1400:1 or less. It's also interesting how they put the filter at an angle to avoid shadows being reflected back into the primary lens, which is curved.

Moral of the story: always avoid correcting brightness digitally when you can, it reduces bit depth and contrast. But thankfully you can gain that contrast back using an additional filter.

A smart move for projector manufacturers who are torn between having good rec 709 vs P3 contrast performance and lumens, is having the projector be Rec 709 native at the colour wheel but have a P3 filter that can be clipped on, outside the projector. That might be less convenient than having a filter mechanically in the light path, but many Epson owners had problems with their Cinema filters breaking and it adds costs and inconvenience when you have to send in the projector for repairs. An outboard P3 filter is a good idea, I think.

I wish @Cine4Home would make some contrast-preserving filters for rec 709 DLP projectors.
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post #53 of 4627 Old 11-06-2018, 05:46 PM
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Depending on the (US) price, this looks like it might be a winner for me. I don’t do any gaming. I’d use it for live sports, uhd movie disks, and streaming of 1080p and UHD.

I have a 120” and a budget of $2000. I have a dedicated room where virtually all light can be removed.

Based only on the specs and needs, does anyone see any potential pitfalls for me with this projector?

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post #54 of 4627 Old 11-06-2018, 05:51 PM
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Limited zoom range could be a problem.
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post #55 of 4627 Old 11-06-2018, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Limited zoom range could be a problem.


For some… Yes. However it is the same zoom range as the hugely popular W1070 and HT2050. Upgrading that user base is a key target audience.
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Originally Posted by DVDMike View Post
Depending on the (US) price, this looks like it might be a winner for me. I don’t do any gaming. I’d use it for live sports, uhd movie disks, and streaming of 1080p and UHD.



I have a 120” and a budget of $2000. I have a dedicated room where virtually all light can be removed.



Based only on the specs and needs, does anyone see any potential pitfalls for me with this projector?


Sounds like it could be a winner. If you can wait for reviews and for it to be released in 2-3 months.
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post #57 of 4627 Old 11-06-2018, 07:26 PM
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Sounds like it could be a winner. If you can wait for reviews and for it to be released in 2-3 months.
Yes, I can wait until early next year. I got an entry level epson 1080p projector a year ago to tide me over to 4k after my old Sony was on its last leg.

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post #58 of 4627 Old 11-06-2018, 09:25 PM
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I leave for a couple of weeks...

So someone over at BenQ goofed and leaked the HT3550 early huh?
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post #59 of 4627 Old 11-06-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
For some… Yes. However it is the same zoom range as the hugely popular W1070 and HT2050. Upgrading that user base is a key target audience.


I honestly don’t see how a shorter zoom range is “limiting” in anyway. You can always move the projector closer, you can’t always move it further back. I think this is why many who chose the w1070/hf2050 did. I could have easily afforded a much more expensive projector when I bought my ht1075(same throw as the w1070), however I would have been stuck with an 80”-100” screen. At that size a projector just doesn’t make much sense, you can just move your seating a foot or two closer and buy a big tv and have better picture quality. I think the ability to have a 120” screen less 11’ away is perfect. Rarely are rooms built with less than 12’ in either direction, so as long as the throw is less than 1.2 it’s perfect. For projection THX recommends .85 so even then a <1.2 Throw ratio will have your projector behind the seating area. Idk that’s just my perspective (pun intended).
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post #60 of 4627 Old 11-06-2018, 10:07 PM
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BenQ 2700 Announced

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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I leave for a couple of weeks...

So someone over at BenQ goofed and leaked the HT3550 early huh?


I was wondering when you would chime in. Your probably as familiar with BenQ’s lineup as anybody. Curious what your thoughts are on this very promising bit of tech.
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Last edited by bix26; 11-06-2018 at 10:16 PM.
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