BenQ W2700 / HT3550 Announcement and Owner’s Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 4624 Old 11-07-2018, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I leave for a couple of weeks...

So someone over at BenQ goofed and leaked the HT3550 early huh?
someone posted the page for the international version - 2 australian websites picked it up and ran with it and then some well connected people here on AVS got some better info out of BenQ.
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post #62 of 4624 Old 11-07-2018, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I was wondering when you would chime in. Your probably as familiar with BenQ’s lineup as anybody. Curious what your thoughts are on this very promising bit of tech.


Sorry— I’ve been away. Still trying to catch up on my PMs so I apologize to anyone out there. AVS really needs an away message.

I’ve known about it for a... awhile... so I’m excited that it’s out there now we can talk about it. This is the projector I’ve been waiting for BenQ to make and I’m very keen to get my eyes/hands on one as soon as BenQ debuts it— which should happen at an event hopefully in January.

Obviously, the hot news is the new .47” DMD that gets rid of the silly light border. But the bigger item is BenQ is finally, FINALLY, implementing a dynamic iris into one of their designs. For those that don’t know, a dynamic iris is what takes an Epson 4010, which has a native contrast of around 1250:1 (fun fact: below the native contrast of a BenQ HT2050A at 1350:1 https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/) and turns it into a editors choice projector that can compete with projectors with much higher native contrast specs. The iris is going to be a BIG deal.

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post #63 of 4624 Old 11-07-2018, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
someone posted the page for the international version - 2 australian websites picked it up and ran with it and then some well connected people here on AVS got some better info out of BenQ.


Yeah, it was def a leak. That model was supposed to debut early next year at an event they have planned.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #64 of 4624 Old 11-07-2018, 09:15 AM
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Hello again !!



The great dilemma! I have a UHD51 that I bought for € 1100 as new at Amazon and I am very happy, but it is true that for those of us who look closely at the halo it is annoying. Now I see that Benq takes out his W2700 in February and all the doubts assault me. Will Benq improve the Optoma image quality in addition to removing the halo? I can return the Optoma until the 26th, so I will not arrive in time to see Greg's analysis ... what do you think?
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post #65 of 4624 Old 11-07-2018, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Quim Quim View Post
Hello again !!







The great dilemma! I have a UHD51 that I bought for € 1100 as new at Amazon and I am very happy, but it is true that for those of us who look closely at the halo it is annoying. Now I see that Benq takes out his W2700 in February and all the doubts assault me. Will Benq improve the Optoma image quality in addition to removing the halo? I can return the Optoma until the 26th, so I will not arrive in time to see Greg's analysis ... what do you think?


We won’t really know the answers to your questions until we get our hands on units to review, hopefully by the end of December.

If you have doubts and the purchase is not something you want to be locked into then I would just return it and wait a few months.

It is certainly encouraging to see a dynamic iris implemented to aid contrast and the halo. I’m confident that we will see a big improvement in PQ due to that alone. In addition, the enhancements to color gamut coverage indicate the image quality, at least on paper, will be a significant improvement to your unit.

I feel the 4K projector market maturity is getting to the point where this can check most boxes for most people. This is 2nd gen 4K. Relatively affordable. 4K. Good HDR. Color accuracy. Acceptable contrast. 3D. CFI. Throw. Lens Shift. User upgradable. I’ll be curious to see how the 2,000 lumens perform on my 160” screen but my use case is fringe.

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post #66 of 4624 Old 11-07-2018, 10:13 AM
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I’ll say that if the UHD50 gets close enough to $1,000 it will be really hard for me to pass that up.

I have a sneaking suspicion the 3550 will be closer to $2k and I’m just not sure I’m up for that.


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post #67 of 4624 Old 11-08-2018, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

Obviously, the hot news is the new .47” DMD that gets rid of the silly light border. But the bigger item is BenQ is finally, FINALLY, implementing a dynamic iris into one of their designs. For those that don’t know, a dynamic iris is what takes an Epson 4010, which has a native contrast of around 1250:1 (fun fact: below the native contrast of a BenQ HT2050A at 1350:1 https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/) and turns it into a editors choice projector that can compete with projectors with much higher native contrast specs. The iris is going to be a BIG deal.
I was also considering the Epson 4010 but it’s limited to hdmi 1.4. I’d hope this one is available before Super Bowl time

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post #68 of 4624 Old 11-08-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Someone mentioned that the updated S316 DMD is a running change on existing projector models that previously used the DMD that produced the annoying light border. If true they would have comparable performance. The dynamic iris would certainly provide better dynamic contrast.

EDIT: The above S316 reference is incorrect. Gregory on passioncinema.fr actually said the new DMD with the greatly reduced light border will be offered in other new models from multiple brands in 2019. I incorrectly thought I remembered that as a running change on existing models. My mistake.

passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/02/11/2018/benq-w2700-dlp-a-simulation-4k-puce-0-47-sans-cadre-lumineux/
according this this doco, the POM border on this 1080p/4KUHD chip is reduced by 75% - down to 20 (vs 80 top/bottom and 84 sides on previous DMD)
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dlp470tp.pdf
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post #69 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 02:33 AM
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After reading opinions, I think I'll return my UHD51 and wait for this model. How about the contrast, could the dynamic iris beat the UHD51 contrast ?
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post #70 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Quim Quim View Post
After reading opinions, I think I'll return my UHD51 and wait for this model. How about the contrast, could the dynamic iris beat the UHD51 contrast ?


We won’t know for sure until review samples are sent out but my guess would be: yes.

Again, I’ll use the Epson 4010 as an example here. The 4010 has a native contrast measurement of 1250:1 with it’s iris disengaged. While that’s not a bad number it’s actually below that of many sub $1000 DLPs. With the iris engaged ( and set to high ) the contrast jumps to 15,000/16,000:1! Of course, implementation is important here so we’ll have to wait for hands-on impressions to see how well BenQ’s iris works. A dynamic iris can introduce ‘pumping’ artifacts that some people find bothersome— but this tech has gotten better over the years.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #71 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
We won’t know for sure until review samples are sent out but my guess would be: yes.

Again, I’ll use the Epson 4010 as an example here. The 4010 has a native contrast measurement of 1250:1 with it’s iris disengaged. While that’s not a bad number it’s actually below that of many sub $1000 DLPs. With the iris engaged ( and set to high ) the contrast jumps to 15,000/16,000:1! Of course, implementation is important here so we’ll have to wait for hands-on impressions to see how well BenQ’s iris works. A dynamic iris can introduce ‘pumping’ artifacts that some people find bothersome— but this tech has gotten better over the years.
How about the measurement of the dynamic contrast of the Optoma. Everywhere I see 500 000:1. Is that real ?
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post #72 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
... The 4010 has a native contrast measurement of 1250:1 with it’s iris disengaged. While that’s not a bad number it’s actually below that of many sub $1000 DLPs. With the iris engaged ( and set to high ) the contrast jumps to 15,000/16,000:1! ...
That's why it's important when discussing contrast to specify native contrast or dynamic contrast, the latter of which uses a dynamic iris or dynamic lamp dimming to extend native contrast. Obviously dynamic contrast doesn't apply to the contrast in a single image frame the way native contrast does but only the difference between the brightest area of the brightest image frame and the darkest area of the darkest image frame.

Good to have you back on the forum.
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post #73 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Quim Quim View Post
How about the measurement of the dynamic contrast of the Optoma. Everywhere I see 500 000:1. Is that real ?
Manufacturer specs for contrast are mostly theoretical numbers that can border on fantasy. Independent testing with calibrated test equipment measures much lower real world numbers.
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post #74 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 09:11 AM
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according this this doco, the POM border on this 1080p/4KUHD chip is reduced by 75% - down to 20 (vs 80 top/bottom and 84 sides on previous DMD)
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dlp470tp.pdf
Good catch. On first read I had missed the following line in Table 2. Micromirror Array Physical Characteristics that shows 20 micromirrors per side in the pond of micromirror border in the Series 316 DMD:

Quote:
Micromirror active border (3) | Pond of micromirrors (POM) | 20 micromirrors/side

(3) The structure and qualities of the border around the active array includes a band of partially functional micromirrors referred to as the Pond Of Micromirrors (POM). These micromirrors are structurally and/or electrically prevented from tilting toward the bright or ON state but still require an electrical bias to tilt toward the OFF state
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post #75 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 09:17 AM
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BenQ 2700 Announced

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Originally Posted by Quim Quim View Post
After reading opinions, I think I'll return my UHD51 and wait for this model. How about the contrast, could the dynamic iris beat the UHD51 contrast ?


Even without the help of the dynamic iris (which can have some downsides, and can be turned off) the contrast will likely be better. The DLP chip has been upgraded. How much of an upgrade we don’t know.
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post #76 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 09:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mgoldsmith View Post
according this this doco, the POM border on this 1080p/4KUHD chip is reduced by 75% - down to 20 (vs 80 top/bottom and 84 sides on previous DMD)
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dlp470tp.pdf
I find it really disappointing that not one of these DLP manufacturers consider that 1080p at 240hz is worth implementing, given that the chips support it and HDMI 2.0b can do it too, at least in 8-bit and in 4:4:4 or RGB. In 10-bit you'd have to drop to 4:2:2 to pass HDR10 at 240hz, but you could send 192hz in YUV 4:4:4 or RGB 10-bit and that would be awesome.

I'm definitely hopeful that the native contrast bumps up at least a tiny bit due to a smaller mirror pond. I honestly don't get it why they'd make such a silly design mistake in the first place. It's baffling to me.
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post #77 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 02:26 PM
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How about the measurement of the dynamic contrast of the Optoma. Everywhere I see 500 000:1. Is that real ?


No that is not a real number.

To be clear, ALL manufacturers inflate their contrast specs to some degree or another but some, like the Optoma spec you quoted, are flat out ridiculous. There is no standard for measuring contrast so the industry is free to make up whatever numbers they want. As a general rule: ignore manufacturer claims about contrast— that goes for ALL display technologies not just projectors.
For example...
I had a BenQ HT2050 for over two years which BenQ rates at 15,000:1 contrast. By itself, that number is clearly inflated although it’s downright conservative when compared against the Epson 2040 which Epson rates at 35,000:1– more than twice the number of the BenQ— and the Epson has very clearly worse contrast and noticeably higher blacks. So you really need to read reviews and pay attention to the owners threads to get the full story.
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post #78 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 02:43 PM
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For some… Yes. However it is the same zoom range as the hugely popular W1070 and HT2050. Upgrading that user base is a key target audience.
Raises hand, BenQ HT1075 owner here

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Raises hand, BenQ HT1075 owner here
BenQ would like you to hand over your wallet. Thanks for volunteering.
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post #80 of 4624 Old 11-09-2018, 02:53 PM
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BenQ would like you to hand over your wallet. Thanks for volunteering.
I am happy to hand over my wallet for a clone of the HT1075 but with 4K and HDR

If it is, BenQ will have a huge winner.

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BenQ would like you to hand over your wallet. Thanks for volunteering.

Hey BenQ...

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post #82 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 04:23 AM
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I want to give them my money.....but the 2050 is soo good, they need a winner like that in 4K and the 2550 was just not quite there yet, this one might be that winner !


I am seeing the 2550 under 1K all over now, if it would have been released sub 1K, the pricing would have overcame the minor flaws.





This new model needs to hit that same sub 1500 mark to pull off a huge win...…..otherwise it just becomes washed in with the 1800 to 2500 PJ`s, which are plenty now.....I think …….. and could be wrong as I often am...….

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post #83 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
For some… Yes. However it is the same zoom range as the hugely popular W1070 and HT2050. Upgrading that user base is a key target audience.
what about those of us with a 2150? its basically a 2050 with a different lens

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post #84 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 06:48 AM
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What is the purpose of having extra mirrors in POM?

Is it for keystone correction?

I assume if you adjust the image, say to the top, you would then just have the gray border at the bottom?
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post #85 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
I want to give them my money.....but the 2050 is soo good, they need a winner like that in 4K and the 2550 was just not quite there yet, this one might be that winner !





I am seeing the 2550 under 1K all over now, if it would have been released sub 1K, the pricing would have overcame the minor flaws.











This new model needs to hit that same sub 1500 mark to pull off a huge win...…..otherwise it just becomes washed in with the 1800 to 2500 PJ`s, which are plenty now.....I think …….. and could be wrong as I often am...….


Welcome to disappointment


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post #86 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 09:20 AM
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What is the purpose of having extra mirrors in POM? ...
I've often wondered about this so I went searching and finally found an answer on TI's engineer to engineer community forum:

Quote:
DMDs are designed with a border of non-addressable mirrors that are in the "off" state in typical operation. This is by design so that the active array image appears to float in a dark background.

This is so that if there is any illumination overfill (and there is always some overfill) it will not show up in the projected image.
e2e.ti.com/support/dlp/f/94/t/563497?DLP5500-Could-we-use-off-state-enery-axis-as-a-projection-axis-

Of course given the light border issue that seems to result from a large POM it's fair to question whether the POM is the best solution to creating a dark background. I suppose it would take a more detailed discussion with a TI DMD engineer to understand why they chose a POM over other potential solutions to make the active array image appear to float in a dark backround.
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post #87 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
I want to give them my money.....but the 2050 is soo good, they need a winner like that in 4K and the 2550 was just not quite there yet, this one might be that winner !





I am seeing the 2550 under 1K all over now, if it would have been released sub 1K, the pricing would have overcame the minor flaws.











This new model needs to hit that same sub 1500 mark to pull off a huge win...…..otherwise it just becomes washed in with the 1800 to 2500 PJ`s, which are plenty now.....I think …….. and could be wrong as I often am...….


I disagree— but that’s me. Personally, I’ve been looking for more midrange 4K models to come to market. While the HT2550 is a fantastic projector (especially after it’s last firmware update) it’s very clearly an entry level 4K model with performance and features more in line with that entry level price.

We still don’t know how well this BenQ will perform or even what it’s final price will be but we can speculate that this BenQ will likely price compete with projectors such as the Optoma UHD60/65, Sony 45ES and Epson 4010. The Optomas are both fantastic projectors but neither has the dynamic iris, the 65 is saddled with crippling levels of input lag and the 60 lacks the RGBRGB color wheel. The Sony 45ES is still the king of contrast in the sub-$3k field but it is only 1080p. The Epson 4010 is a killer deal and is garnering a lot of praise but it’s not as sharp, has just ‘OK’ motion handling and, bafflingly, still lacks full bandwidth HDMI ports.

Obviously, everything hinges on price and performance but I am REALLY looking forward to seeing what BenQ has in store with this model. I have high hopes that this is going to set the bar for 4K DLPs in the sub $3000 market.

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post #88 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 11:33 AM
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BenQ is set to release as many as 7-9 projectors next year. HT8060, HT9060, HT3550 and dont know which other ones will be hitting the market, some will probably be announced at CES

Last edited by MJ1; 11-10-2018 at 11:40 AM.
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post #89 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 12:28 PM
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I think the only way I don't end up buying the UHD50 is if BenQ refreshes the 2550 with the shorter throw. I just don't care enough about what they are adding to the 3550 to pay that extra money.
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post #90 of 4624 Old 11-10-2018, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
BenQ is set to release as many as 7-9 projectors next year. HT8060, HT9060, HT3550 and dont know which other ones will be hitting the market, some will probably be announced at CES
Hopefully the release a consumer version of the LK952 for $3000 or less.

I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets.
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