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post #181 of 5297 Old 12-21-2018, 06:30 AM
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This might be my 4K upgrade. Thanks Sage for bringing me here. I have a 3050 and a 125" screen. It was my first projector and it's great! I'm excited to see some in depth comparisons to the 2550 once the 3550 comes out. I could get the 2550 now, but I want a projector that I'm going to be happy with long term. And this one sounds to have a lot of interesting upgrades. Waiting for this one seems the right decision. I don't really intend to use it full on until the next gen consoles come around any way. So I can afford to wait it out.


(I look forward to reading your input and chatting with you all about this model over the next year)

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post #182 of 5297 Old 12-21-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
This might be my 4K upgrade. Thanks Sage for bringing me here. I have a 3050 and a 125" screen. It was my first projector and it's great! I'm excited to see some in depth comparisons to the 2550 once the 3550 comes out. I could get the 2550 now, but I want a projector that I'm going to be happy with long term. And this one sounds to have a lot of interesting upgrades. Waiting for this one seems the right decision. I don't really intend to use it full on until the next gen consoles come around any way. So I can afford to wait it out.


(I look forward to reading your input and chatting with you all about this model over the next year)

Yeah I don't want to put you off the HT2550-- it's a fantastic projector and I use it as my main display-- but the HT3550 should represent a clear step up and will be the definitive 4K upgrade from your HT3050.


Right now I have the HT2050A and the HT2550. I prefer the HT2550 for it's 4K resolution and it's ability to accept and display HDR content. Opinions seem to vary on this but in my personal opinion the jump from 1080p to 4K is massive when you're talking about the typical screen sizes projector owners push. That said, the HT2550 doesn't represent a clear upgrade over the HT2050A in all areas. Ignoring things like input lag (which is an issue for most all 4K pixel shifters) and a lack of DCI-P3 coverage (which no 1080p projectors or budget 4K projectors offer) the HT2050A/HT3050 still does some things better than the HT2550. Most notably: black levels on the HT2550/TK800 are not as deep as the HT2050A/HT3050. Contrast can often look just as good and sometimes even better if only because the addition of HDR makes a big impact here. Still, the 1080p projectors will do a more convincing job on darker scenes or scenes without any bright highlights. In addition, the HT2550/TK800 lack lens shift which limits their placement flexibility if you're keen to avoid using keystone. Speaking of placement, the shorter throw lens of the HT2050A/HT3050 is a popular feature that was not duplicated on the 4K units. Lastly, there's that pesky light border that, while hardly a deal breaker, remains an annoyance on the current generation of 4K DLPs for the more OCD of us.


The HT3550 solves these issues by including a dynamic iris (BenQ's first!) which should have a significant impact on contrast/blacks. In addition, the HT3550 includes vertical lens shift and utilizes a shorter throw lens similar to that of the HT2050A/HT3050. The HT3550 will also see the debut of a new DMD that eliminates the light border of the current design.


As I said previously, the HT2550 is a fantastic projector. But it is a model targeting a low entry level price point. Honestly, when the BenQ debuted, just getting full 4K resolution, full bandwidth 4K/60 HDMI 2.0, automatic HDR detection/switching and the out-of-the-box color accuracy the HT2550 promises (dE errors < 3) was enough to make it an awesome value. At it's newly reduced price it's an insane value. The HT3550, in this case, represents a much higher aiming projector with features and performance that will hopefully justify it's higher price point.
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post #183 of 5297 Old 12-21-2018, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Yeah I don't want to put you off the HT2550-- it's a fantastic projector and I use it as my main display-- but the HT3550 should represent a clear step up and will be the definitive 4K upgrade from your HT3050.


Right now I have the HT2050A and the HT2550. I prefer the HT2550 for it's 4K resolution and it's ability to accept and display HDR content. Opinions seem to vary on this but in my personal opinion the jump from 1080p to 4K is massive when you're talking about the typical screen sizes projector owners push. That said, the HT2550 doesn't represent a clear upgrade over the HT2050A in all areas. Ignoring things like input lag (which is an issue for most all 4K pixel shifters) and a lack of DCI-P3 coverage (which no 1080p projectors or budget 4K projectors offer) the HT2050A/HT3050 still does some things better than the HT2550. Most notably: black levels on the HT2550/TK800 are not as deep as the HT2050A/HT3050. Contrast can often look just as good and sometimes even better if only because the addition of HDR makes a big impact here. Still, the 1080p projectors will do a more convincing job on darker scenes or scenes without any bright highlights. In addition, the HT2550/TK800 lack lens shift which limits their placement flexibility if you're keen to avoid using keystone. Speaking of placement, the shorter throw lens of the HT2050A/HT3050 is a popular feature that was not duplicated on the 4K units. Lastly, there's that pesky light border that, while hardly a deal breaker, remains an annoyance on the current generation of 4K DLPs for the more OCD of us.


The HT3550 solves these issues by including a dynamic iris (BenQ's first!) which should have a significant impact on contrast/blacks. In addition, the HT3550 includes vertical lens shift and utilizes a shorter throw lens similar to that of the HT2050A/HT3050. The HT3550 will also see the debut of a new DMD that eliminates the light border of the current design.


As I said previously, the HT2550 is a fantastic projector. But it is a model targeting a low entry level price point. Honestly, when the BenQ debuted, just getting full 4K resolution, full bandwidth 4K/60 HDMI 2.0, automatic HDR detection/switching and the out-of-the-box color accuracy the HT2550 promises (dE errors < 3) was enough to make it an awesome value. At it's newly reduced price it's an insane value. The HT3550, in this case, represents a much higher aiming projector with features and performance that will hopefully justify it's higher price point.


Probably the best succinct overview of this market segment I’ve read. Well played!
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post #184 of 5297 Old 12-21-2018, 03:08 PM
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BenQ has done a dynamic iris on 2 projectors, ht6050 and ht8050, if you look up reviews on both, you can see that it was poorly implemented. Maybe the HT3550 will be a different story. Hopefully 2019 is the last year of lamp projectors.

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post #185 of 5297 Old 12-21-2018, 03:34 PM
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BenQ has done a dynamic iris on 2 projectors, ht6050 and ht8050, if you look up reviews on both, you can see that it was poorly implemented. Maybe the HT3550 will be a different story. Hopefully 2019 is the last year of lamp projectors.


I should have clarified: in this price range. Both the HT6050 and HT8050 were projectors with features and prices more aimed at the custom installer market rather than the retail crowd. Years back I was itching for an updated version of the HT2050/HT3050 with a dynamic iris. Why? Because both of those projectors have a higher native contrast than the Epson 4000 and even the new Epson 4010. With a dynamic iris I think BenQ could have had a good bridge between the lower cost DLPs and the higher priced LCoS models.


But good catch. I still have high hopes as the auto iris implementation on the similar JVC UH1 was purportedly pretty good.

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post #186 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 12:49 PM
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Sage the fact that smart people are saying the 3550 should be a clear step up is precisely why I am waiting. This seems less like a refresh and almost a generational leap in tech from the 2550. I won't buy it at launch though. Once it gets close enough to 1k I'll jump on it. I have no reason to rush out and get a 4K projector since I have 2 4K TVs and barely any 4K movies. It's all about next gen 4K gaming for me!


I just hope the 3550 will be at least close to 50ms input lag if not slightly under. If they can do that, I'll be happy.

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post #187 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 01:35 PM
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BenQ 2700 Announced

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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
Sage the fact that smart people are saying the 3550 should be a clear step up is precisely why I am waiting. This seems less like a refresh and almost a generational leap in tech from the 2550. I won't buy it at launch though. Once it gets close enough to 1k I'll jump on it. I have no reason to rush out and get a 4K projector since I have 2 4K TVs and barely any 4K movies. It's all about next gen 4K gaming for me!


I just hope the 3550 will be at least close to 50ms input lag if not slightly under. If they can do that, I'll be happy.


I’m hoping for lag in the 44-50ms territory. BUT, most all DLPs with CFI so far have had lag numbers north of 70ms. We’ll see...

I think you’re underestimating the price point the HT3550 will be selling for. We have to wait and see but I’m expecting a price north of $2k. To be clear, that’s speculation as BenQ has not made any announcements as far as pricing. The closest competitor that the BenQ will have in the DLP space is the UHD65– a projector that debuted at $2500 and is currently selling for $2100. And the BenQ should outclass the UHD65 with the addition of the auto iris and the ability to play back 3D.

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post #188 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 02:18 PM
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Expect the input lag to be around 47ms, like the JVC LX-UH1. Which this projector basically is, just with the newer .47 4K DMD chip, less lens shift and a color filter for wider P3 coverage. Native contrast probably less than 1000/1 and dynamic contrast around 4000/1 with the iris on high. Ima guess the price will be $2000.

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post #189 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 04:12 PM
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Expect the input lag to be around 47ms, like the JVC LX-UH1. Which this projector basically is, just with the newer .47 4K DMD chip, less lens shift and a color filter for wider P3 coverage. Native contrast probably less than 1000/1 and dynamic contrast around 4000/1 with the iris on high. Ima guess the price will be $2000.
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post #190 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 04:36 PM
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BenQ has put the HT3550 back on their website. I don’t know if this was on their previous webpage that was taken down or if this is new. It claims that each unit will be factory calibrated and also have an auto HDR tone mapping. So far I think the newest Panasonic UHD Blu-Ray has this feature.

https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...ma/ht3550.html
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post #191 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 05:05 PM
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Can't lie, this thing looks great on paper. Also I think I was wrong on my first price prediction. I don't think you can sell a 4k .47 chip projector for $2000 plus. I think this will sell for $1500 and the ht4550 (w5700) will sell for $1800-$2000.

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post #192 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 05:24 PM
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BenQ has put the HT3550 back on their website. I don’t know if this was on their previous webpage that was taken down or if this is new. It claims that each unit will be factory calibrated and also have an auto HDR tone mapping. So far I think the newest Panasonic UHD Blu-Ray has this feature.

https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...ma/ht3550.html
That's good news about the auto hdr tone mapping! I was going to get the Panny 820 when I got this pj specifically for that reason.
That'll save me $500!
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post #193 of 5297 Old 12-22-2018, 09:17 PM
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Can't lie, this thing looks great on paper. Also I think I was wrong on my first price prediction. I don't think you can sell a 4k .47 chip projector for $2000 plus. I think this will sell for $1500 and the ht4550 (w5700) will sell for $1800-$2000.
What is the difference between the 3550 and the 4550?

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post #194 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 10:56 AM
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BenQ 2700 Announced

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Every single time we start to get excited that a new DLP projector will have better than "Home Entertainment Contrast", someone comes along to burst the fantasy bubble...and thus prepare us for the inevitable harsh reality. Thanks Mr. DOOM!

This is the sub $3000 forum— this is where home entertainment contrast lives. The only two projectors that can allude to having ultra high contrast in this price range are the 1080p only Sony 45ES and the soon to be discontinued Epson 5040ub. I’m not looking for ultra high contrast in this segment— I’m looking for better contrast than what the current crop of DLP pixel shifters can supply.

Consider the Epson 4010, a projector which has been well received by the enthusiast press and the forum. I think it’s fair to point out that the native contrast of the Epson is around 1250:1. That’s really good for a sub $2k projector until you consider a $630 BenQ HT2050A runs 1350:1 native (without any lamp dimming). DLP fans have been clamoring for an auto iris to compete with the mid-priced Epsons for a while.

Only time will tell how effective BenQ’s iris implementation is. It might be unfair to expect it to come close to the performance of the Epson’s considering how long Epson has had to refine their iris. Still, the major problem woh the Epson is it’s soft. The major problem with the DLPs is they struggle to render a convincing shade of black. I think getting excited about an auto iris FINALLY making it into a DLP pixel shifter is warranted. Outside the limited release, somewhat undercooked, JVC UH1 we don’t have many clues as to how this will enhance the image quality considering none of the other DLP manufacturers have attempted this yet. MJ is guessing this will fall in line with what we saw with that JVC. I guess I’m expecting things to be a bit better considering this model has had a whole year more of development and is built around a new DMD design.

Again, if you’re looking for ultra high contrast here you’re simply in the wrong place. You have to head above $3000 and once there the market changes dramatically. He’ll, even the new $5000 Sony 295ES got knocked in Sound and Visions review for having a “middling black level” (mostly due to it’s lack of iris, incidentally). Which just goes to show how much more competitive things are in the 3-10k space.
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post #195 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 12:00 PM
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This is the sub $3000 forum— this is where home entertainment contrast lives. The only two projectors that can allude to having ultra high contrast in this price range are the 1080p only Sony 45ES and the soon to be discontinued Epson 5040ub. I’m not looking for ultra high contrast in this segment— I’m looking for better contrast than what the current crop of DLP pixel shifters can supply.

Consider the Epson 4010, a projector which has been well received by the enthusiast press and the forum. I think it’s fair to point out that the native contrast of the Epson is around 1250:1. That’s really good for a sub $2k projector until you consider a $630 BenQ HT2050A runs 1350:1 native (without any lamp dimming). DLP fans have been clamoring for an auto iris to compete with the mid-priced Epsons for a while.

Only time will tell how effective BenQ’s iris implementation is. It might be unfair to expect it to come close to the performance of the Epson’s considering how long Epson has had to refine their iris. Still, the major problem woh the Epson is it’s soft. The major problem with the DLPs is they struggle to render a convincing shade of black. I think getting excited about an auto iris FINALLY making it into a DLP pixel shifter is warranted. Outside the limited release, somewhat undercooked, JVC UH1 we don’t have many clues as to how this will enhance the image quality considering none of the other DLP manufacturers have attempted this yet. MJ is guessing this will fall in line with what we saw with that JVC. I guess I’m expecting things to be a bit better considering this model has had a whole year more of development and is built around a new DMD design.

Again, if you’re looking for ultra high contrast here you’re simply in the wrong place. You have to head above $3000 and once there the market changes dramatically. He’ll, even the new $5000 Sony 295ES got knocked in Sound and Visions review for having a “middling black level” (mostly due to it’s lack of iris, incidentally). Which just goes to show how much more competitive things are in the 3-10k space.
Since our current thoughts on this 2700 are speculation I wonder if one could extrapolate a speculated contrast ratio by taking the CR from the 2550 and applying a ratio of improvement that dynamic iris have achieved on previous projectors. For instance, a starting point is what previous dlp projectors have had a dynamic iris. Tests by qualified evaluators would have identified the % improvement achieved with the dynamic iris. Then it's just a matter of applying that improvement to the 2550 and you have your speculated dynamic iris CR for the 3550.

Anybody want to try? I'll do it if you can point me to some dlps that have a dynamic iris. Would it be possible that the improvement could approach the Acer?

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post #196 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 12:28 PM
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@JackB , the obvious current model comparison with similar specs would be with the JVC LX-UH1. Keep in mind when comparing dynamic contrast that DLP models with dynamic lamp dimming could also be thrown into the mix if only to see what dynamic contrast numbers they generate compared to those with dynamic iris.
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@JackB , the obvious current model comparison with similar specs would be with the JVC LX-UH1. Keep in mind when comparing dynamic contrast that DLP models with dynamic lamp dimming could also be thrown into the mix if only to see what dynamic contrast numbers they generate compared to those with dynamic iris.
Isn't the 3550 going to have dynamic lamp dimming? I thought it did. The big deal here I think is the combination of lamp dimming and dynamic iris.

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post #198 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 01:37 PM
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I just hope there is a is manual iris option. I’ve never seen a dynamic system either lamp dimming, iris, or even a tv backlight that was worth using. I know I’m the minority, the sudden changes in brightness are really distracting to me. It would be nice to just be able to use the iris to lower the black floor when watching in the dark. I’m always surprised when a projector only has an auto iris. It is a simple software code that would cost nothing to add, yet often a manual iris setting is left out. It’s kind of mind boggling to me.
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post #199 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 01:37 PM
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Isn't the 3550 going to have dynamic lamp dimming? I thought it did. The big deal here I think is the combination of lamp dimming and dynamic iris.
Since dynamic iris and dynamic lamp dimming essentially accomplish the same thing in different ways it would seem to be redundant to have both. TI added the dynamic light dimming option to its DLP chipset as a cheap alternative for projectors that lacked the more expensive dynamic iris option. Since dynamic iris is generally considered to be more effective than dynamic lamp dimming and is a feature on more upscale projector models I don't really see much advantage in having both.
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post #200 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
DLP fans have been clamoring for an auto iris to compete with the mid-priced Epsons for a while. Only time will tell how effective BenQ’s iris implementation is. Again, if you’re looking for ultra high contrast here you’re simply in the wrong place.
Yes, I know, and am with you on the cautious optimism. If the iris can provide blacks even within shooting distance of the Epson UB's, but with DLP sharpness and a 1.15 throw ratio or less I'm in. Not since the BenQ W7000 has a DLP's contrast been mentioned in the same breath as the Epson UB's.
Yes, time will tell, but for the last decade DLP contrast news has not been good.
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post #201 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 03:32 PM
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Since dynamic iris and dynamic lamp dimming essentially accomplish the same thing in different ways it would seem to be redundant to have both. TI added the dynamic light dimming option to its DLP chipset as a cheap alternative for projectors that lacked the more expensive dynamic iris option. Since dynamic iris is generally considered to be more effective than dynamic lamp dimming and is a feature on more upscale projector models I don't really see much advantage in having both.


Considering the JVC also eschewed lamp dimming in favor of it’s iris I think this is a safe bet.

Of course, I don’t want to diminish lamp dimming here. While lamp dimming won’t be as effective as an iris it has it’s benefits. The first being it is much easier and cheaper to implement. The second being that lamp dimming can be implemented in a more subtle / less distracting way. BenQ has previously used lamp dimming to great effect— especially on the affordable HT2050/3050 series where it is very difficult to detect but still offers a worthwhile improvement to overall contrast (taking those models from around 1350:1 to around 2000:1 essentially ‘for free’).

My biggest complaint about the HT2550 and the rest of the .47” DMD DLPs is the lackluster black levels. Contrast, especially color contrast and specular highlights, are actually quite good with these projectors. But the black floor is not there and that can cause dark scenes to appear pretty weak. The iris should help in these cases and so too should the elimination of the light border. While I don’t find the border that distracting the simple fact is any additional unused light in the path is going to detrimental to the projector’s black levels.

I’m expecting good things from the HT3550 but only time will tell how it’s picture quality will shape up. Bottom line: I’m very much enjoying the resolution, clarity and color of the HT2550 but could use a bit more contrast/deeper blacks. If the Ht3550 can get there and include things like CFI and more coverage of DCI P3 to stay competitive with the Epson 4000/4010 then I think they’ll have a winner.
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post #202 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 04:24 PM
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… Of course, I don’t want to diminish lamp dimming here. ...
No one should ever doubt the cost effectiveness of dynamic lamp dimming. Compared with the cost of adding a dynamic iris, dynamic lamp dimming is dirt cheap. Once TI baked it into their DLP chipsets it represented only a tiny fraction of total chip cost and all the DLP projector companies had to do was enable the feature in their firmware. Coming close to dynamic iris performance at a tiny fraction of the cost makes it a great value proposition.
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post #203 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 04:36 PM
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I’m hoping for lag in the 44-50ms territory. BUT, most all DLPs with CFI so far have had lag numbers north of 70ms. We’ll see...

I think you’re underestimating the price point the HT3550 will be selling for. We have to wait and see but I’m expecting a price north of $2k. To be clear, that’s speculation as BenQ has not made any announcements as far as pricing. The closest competitor that the BenQ will have in the DLP space is the UHD65– a projector that debuted at $2500 and is currently selling for $2100. And the BenQ should outclass the UHD65 with the addition of the auto iris and the ability to play back 3D.

Ok I change my statement. A year after launch if it approaches $1500 I'll bite. I really want to see this projector and how it compares to the 2550.
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post #204 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 05:41 PM
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So it's been said this is a shorter throw than the 2550. I currently have a 3050. So do we know how close this will be to that one? I currently have it at near the closest I can put it at around 12' for a 125" image. If I can use my exact same benq mount without even moving the mount. That would be awesome.

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post #205 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 06:40 PM
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So it's been said this is a shorter throw than the 2550. I currently have a 3050. So do we know how close this will be to that one? I currently have it at near the closest I can put it at around 12' for a 125" image. If I can use my exact same benq mount without even moving the mount. That would be awesome.


Yes you can. They have virtually the same throw ratio. 1.13-1.47 vs the 1.15-1.5 of the HT3050.

https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...fications.html

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post #206 of 5297 Old 12-23-2018, 06:43 PM
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HI all,

I was able to have a quick look on W2700 during Taipei Audio show over the weekend. BenQ booth was displaying both W2700 and W5700. Unfortunately room is too small and too crowded to have more in-depth look of both machines. Actually, I didn't get to see W5700 at all. Below is what I've gotten from the show.

1. Throw distance will be same as W2000/HT3050.

2. Retail price estimated: W2700 NT50,000 to NT60,000 (1600USD to 2000USD), W5700 NT60,000 to NT70,000 (2000USD to 2300USD). That's all sales rep will tell me.

3. They will only tell me the main difference between W2700 and W5700 is lens shift, room got really crowded with demo and didn't pick up the conversation after.

4. Light boarder is pretty much gone.

During the demo, the rep didn't talk too much just show us clips of many 4K HDR, I've notice 3~4 second laps between each clips (I think it has to do with sync). Other than that, the images looks great, to me it's W2000/HT3050 with 4k HDR.
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post #207 of 5297 Old 12-24-2018, 07:19 AM
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Thank you roni44, W2700 does not have more zoom than the W2000?
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post #208 of 5297 Old 12-24-2018, 09:18 AM
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Thank you roni44, W2700 does not have more zoom than the W2000?
Same as the W2000: 1.3x. Same lens shift as well: 10% of the image height.
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post #209 of 5297 Old 12-24-2018, 09:20 AM
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Patiently waiting for the input lag info. I'm hoping for less than 40ms.

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post #210 of 5297 Old 12-24-2018, 09:39 AM
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No one should ever doubt the cost effectiveness of dynamic lamp dimming. Compared with the cost of adding a dynamic iris, dynamic lamp dimming is dirt cheap. Once TI baked it into their DLP chipsets it represented only a tiny fraction of total chip cost and all the DLP projector companies had to do was enable the feature in their firmware. Coming close to dynamic iris performance at a tiny fraction of the cost makes it a great value proposition.
And it boosts lamp life while still giving full output when required.
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