Which 4k projector in the 2k$ range for movies and gaming? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 11-18-2018, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Which 4k projector in the 2k$ range for movies and gaming?

I'm currently using my second projector after owning a sanyo 720p projector and my current projector is an epson 8500UB that has served me well.

I would like to both play games with my PS4 Pro and watch 4k content.

My PS4 is able to do both 4k and HDR, I don't know if HDR is really important, but 4k is important with a 120" screen and 13feet viewing distance.

My screen is a high gain screen in a 100% dark room, so I was extremly satisfied with the 1600lumens output of the projector.

My current projector had a blue bar at the top and pink at the bottom, it's a 12" color shift at the top and bottom. So the projector need repair and it's 9 years old so I'm thinking of upgrading.

So what would you recommend at around 2k$ ?

I was thinking of the espon 4010, seems like a nice upgrade for a reasonable price.

Is there a better alternative?

Also my projector is still running, so if a very very nice product is coming in the next few months, I could wait for that.

Thank you
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-18-2018, 01:10 PM
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the epson 4010 is not real 4k. its more around 1440p, if we can measure it somewhat with that.

But then again most ps4 games also go 1440p instead of full 4k.

If you want real 4k and the lowest input lag go for the uhd40/uhd50 and put it on game mode.

If you can wait, CES starts in january and is the place where we will 100% see new projector announcements that will be released not much later.
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post #3 of 12 Old 11-18-2018, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Lachapelle View Post
I'm currently using my second projector after owning a sanyo 720p projector and my current projector is an epson 8500UB that has served me well.

I would like to both play games with my PS4 Pro and watch 4k content.

My PS4 is able to do both 4k and HDR, I don't know if HDR is really important, but 4k is important with a 120" screen and 13feet viewing distance.

My screen is a high gain screen in a 100% dark room, so I was extremly satisfied with the 1600lumens output of the projector.

My current projector had a blue bar at the top and pink at the bottom, it's a 12" color shift at the top and bottom. So the projector need repair and it's 9 years old so I'm thinking of upgrading.

So what would you recommend at around 2k$ ?

I was thinking of the espon 4010, seems like a nice upgrade for a reasonable price.

Is there a better alternative?

Also my projector is still running, so if a very very nice product is coming in the next few months, I could wait for that.

Thank you
Are you talking about competitive gaming or casual gaming? Cause I wouldn't recommend any 4K projector for competitive gaming.
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post #4 of 12 Old 11-18-2018, 01:32 PM
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Which 4k projector in the 2k$ range for movies and gaming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Lachapelle View Post
I'm currently using my second projector after owning a sanyo 720p projector and my current projector is an epson 8500UB that has served me well.



I would like to both play games with my PS4 Pro and watch 4k content.



My PS4 is able to do both 4k and HDR, I don't know if HDR is really important, but 4k is important with a 120" screen and 13feet viewing distance.



My screen is a high gain screen in a 100% dark room, so I was extremly satisfied with the 1600lumens output of the projector.



My current projector had a blue bar at the top and pink at the bottom, it's a 12" color shift at the top and bottom. So the projector need repair and it's 9 years old so I'm thinking of upgrading.



So what would you recommend at around 2k$ ?



I was thinking of the espon 4010, seems like a nice upgrade for a reasonable price.



Is there a better alternative?



Also my projector is still running, so if a very very nice product is coming in the next few months, I could wait for that.



Thank you


For gaming you want relatively low lag.

The Epson 4010 has low lag and is very sharp (even if it isn’t ‘true’ 4K). Unfortunately, it lacks full bandwidth HDMI which means 4K/HDR @ 60Hz isn’t possible. The best you can do is 30Hz. This may not matter to you but with consoles getting more and more powerful it’s a limitation you should be aware of. If you’re ok with that the Epson is generally considered one of the best values at the $2000 price point.

Most all of the 4K DLP competition features full bandwidth HDMI capable of 4K/HDR @ 60Hz and all of them can produce a full 8 mil pixels on screen so they will be sharper than the Epson— and they’re cheaper to boot. The tradeoff is none of them have really low lag and none can boast the feature set of the Epson. Currently the lowest input lag you can find on a 4K DLP is between 44 and 50ms. Models with this input lag include the BenQ HT2550, BenQ TK800, Viewsonic 727 and Viewsonic 747. Close behind the BenQ and Viewsonic are the Optoma UHD 50 and UHD 60. Both coming in with around 56/58ms of lag. All are currently selling for well below you budget and the two BenQs are currently on sale for around half your budget.

Another thing to consider is RBE. While I’m not super sensitive to RBE I’m less inclined to notice it on DLP projectors with RGBRGB color wheels. The BenQ HT2550, Viewsonic 727 and Optoma UHD50 all feature RGBRGB colorwheels. Unless you need a projector to combat ambient light I would tend to recommend one of these three over the rest. I’d probably further limit that selection to either the BenQ or the Optoma. The BenQ and Viewsonic are very similar but the BenQ is going for a really good price right now and has a couple of nice features the Viewsonic lacks (like 3D). The Optoma is a bit more money and is not quite as bright as the BenQ but it has slightly better contrast/blacks and features some vertical lens shift which is helpful during installation.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Last edited by sage11x; 11-18-2018 at 01:37 PM.
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post #5 of 12 Old 11-18-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
For gaming you want relatively low lag.

The Epson 4010 has low lag and is very sharp (even if it isn’t ‘true’ 4K). Unfortunately, it lacks full bandwidth HDMI which means 4K/HDR @ 60Hz isn’t possible. The best you can do is 30Hz. This may not matter to you but with consoles getting more and more powerful it’s a limitation you should be aware of. If you’re ok with that the Epson is generally considered one of the best values at the $2000 price point.

Most all of the 4K DLP competition features full bandwidth HDMI capable of 4K/HDR @ 60Hz and all of them can produce a full 8 mil pixels on screen so they will be sharper than the Epson— and they’re cheaper to boot. The tradeoff is none of them have really low lag and none can boast the feature set of the Epson. Currently the lowest input lag you can find on a 4K DLP is between 44 and 50ms. Models with this input lag include the BenQ HT2550, BenQ TK800, Viewsonic 727 and Viewsonic 747. Close behind the BenQ and Viewsonic are the Optoma UHD 50 and UHD 60. Both coming in with around 56/58ms of lag. All are currently selling for well below you budget and the two BenQs are currently on sale for around half your budget.

Another thing to consider is RBE. While I’m not super sensitive to RBE I’m less inclined to notice it on DLP projectors with RGBRGB color wheels. The BenQ HT2550, Viewsonic 727 and Optoma UHD50 all feature RGBRGB colorwheels. Unless you need a projector to combat ambient light I would tend to recommend one of these three over the rest. I’d probably further limit that selection to either the BenQ or the Optoma. The BenQ and Viewsonic are very similar but the BenQ is going for a really good price right now and has a couple of nice features the Viewsonic lacks (like 3D). The Optoma is a bit more money and is not quite as bright as the BenQ but it has slightly better contrast/blacks and features some vertical lens shift which is helpful during installation.
Do note that the UHD50/40 and the uhd300x also have reviews claiming ~30-40 ms input lag.
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post #6 of 12 Old 11-23-2018, 08:01 AM
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Which 4k projector in the 2k$ range for movies and gaming?

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Originally Posted by Borgqueenx View Post
Do note that the UHD50/40 and the uhd300x also have reviews claiming ~30-40 ms input lag.

You're going to need to post a reputable source for those claims.


I will say this: I have often wondered if the lag on these is not as bad as what we're measuring-- let me explain. As far as I know, projectorcentral and others are using the same Leo Bodnar device that I use. The issue is the Bodnar device is 1080p. In theory, upconverting 1080p to 4K could be adding to the lag. But, because I have no way to test with a native 4K device, I cannot confirm or deny this theory. The only other way to test for this is to film in slow motion and count frames and... well I don't have the patience for that. Lol!


I have been playing games on my HT2550 and while I do feel the lag I would be lying if I said it was an obstacle to my enjoyment. And this is coming from a self professed lag snob. The truth is, most modern single player games are just not that sensitive when it comes to input and if you’re playing a game like RED DEAD 2 the controls are purposefully laggy and awful. While I will always recommend the lower lag display the only time I feel the need to switch to a faster display is when playing on higher difficulties, challenging a tough boss (looking at you Sigrun...), playing a game where frame sensitive timing is more improtant (Hollow Knight, Spider-Man, fighting games, etc.) or playing one of the classic consoles where the games were designed for use on zero lag CRT monitors (NES, SNES Classic).

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Last edited by sage11x; 11-23-2018 at 08:14 AM.
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post #7 of 12 Old 11-28-2018, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
You're going to need to post a reputable source for those claims.
He's likely referring to this review
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post #8 of 12 Old 11-28-2018, 10:39 AM
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I don't feel any input lag on my Optoma UHD40, PC as 4k source, shooter games mostly. Cinema experience and gaming are amazing on 151" screen.
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post #9 of 12 Old 11-28-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Condojector View Post
He's likely referring to this review
It would be interesting to know how this was measured:

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If you own a 4K gaming console or PC, you’ll be happy to hear that the Optoma UHD40 only suffers with 36ms of input lag on average when using its Game preset. My tests recorded an occasional 65ms outlier, but this was offset by a pretty much equal number of 12ms results, with 34ms being by far the most commonly recorded figure.
I don't recall reading any other projector review where measured input lag varied as much (12ms to 65ms). In general there seems to be more variation in reported input lag times in reviews of 4K DLP models than with 1080p DLP models.
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post #10 of 12 Old 11-28-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Voyager3D View Post
I don't feel any input lag on my Optoma UHD40, PC as 4k source, shooter games mostly. Cinema experience and gaming are amazing on 151" screen.
Most of the time an input lag of 60ms or less is not something you'll actually be able to notice yourself. It's more like when you're wondering how some other player killed you even though your screen and eyes told you that you had a perfect headshot on him that mysteriously didn't connect. Decent example
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One vote for Optoma UHD60. It is good for movie and gaming with PS4 Pro and PC
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post #12 of 12 Old 11-30-2018, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Condojector View Post
He's likely referring to this review
Hm... This from the article:


"If you own a 4K gaming console or PC, you’ll be happy to hear that the Optoma UHD40 only suffers with 36ms of input lag on average when using its Game preset. My tests recorded an occasional 65ms outlier, but this was offset by a pretty much equal number of 12ms results, with 34ms being by far the most commonly recorded figure."

I would like to know his test methodology. Is he using a Bodnar device or some other means? While it is normal on an LCD based display to see different measurements depending on whether you are testing at the top or bottom of the screen (because of the way LCD draws it's image) this isn't normal for DLP. I'm with @Dave in Green in saying that, I've never seen those kind of 'outliers' even when measuring from the top and bottom on an LCD (12ms/65ms) before.


But, again, I'm going on record saying that the lag measurements of these COULD be overstated because, as far as I know, most of the numbers posted are the result of measurements made by a 1080p Bodnar device. The up scaling could be contributing lag. Also, some device don't play well with the Bodnar. My plasmas, for example, always post higher lag numbers than LCD displays due to the way that the plasmas use sub frames to draw the image. As the 4K DLPs are essentially flashing 4 different pixels very rapidly they could be running into the same issue as the plasmas. BUT, until I have a more reliable way to test for this I can't say for sure.
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What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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