Official Epson Home Cinema 4010 / Pro Cinema 4050 Owner’s Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 89 Old 08-20-2019, 03:29 PM
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I just bought the Epson 4010. But I'm not pleased at all with the 4k quality of the image compared to the 1080p of a cheaper/old projector.

Some other concerns:

1) Why 4k enhancement is greyed out along with the noise reduction options? Even if I set presets to OFF I still cant change the noise options.
2) Why does the first USB port say HDCP 2.2 while it only supports HDMI 1.4/HDCP1.4? At first I thought my USB was garbage and ordered a 2.0b one just to find out it does not support it.

Am I doing something wrong here or I'm expecting too much? This is no 4k by any means. Changed the native resolution of my PC to 1080p and I can the quality is identical to the 4k one.

Very frustrated with this buy
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post #62 of 89 Old 08-22-2019, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by aleX treme View Post
I just bought the Epson 4010. But I'm not pleased at all with the 4k quality of the image compared to the 1080p of a cheaper/old projector.

Some other concerns:

1) Why 4k enhancement is greyed out along with the noise reduction options? Even if I set presets to OFF I still cant change the noise options.
2) Why does the first USB port say HDCP 2.2 while it only supports HDMI 1.4/HDCP1.4? At first I thought my USB was garbage and ordered a 2.0b one just to find out it does not support it.

Am I doing something wrong here or I'm expecting too much? This is no 4k by any means. Changed the native resolution of my PC to 1080p and I can the quality is identical to the 4k one.

Very frustrated with this buy

What source are you using for 4k? There should be no doubt regarding the picture difference between standard HD and 4k.
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post #63 of 89 Old 08-22-2019, 04:50 PM
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What source are you using for 4k? There should be no doubt regarding the picture difference between standard HD and 4k.
I'm using the highest end PC available. Projector info says 4k. I managed to output a 4k image messing around with the settings. What I did not like is that when some scenes show the sky or if the image is very bright I see some artifacts, like many un-even lines.
This is happening when I toggle the image enchancement too much. Nothing happens if I set super resolution to max. But toggling detail enchancement more than 30/30 starts micro flickering with lines.

Any help?
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post #64 of 89 Old 08-23-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by aleX treme View Post
I'm using the highest end PC available. Projector info says 4k. I managed to output a 4k image messing around with the settings. What I did not like is that when some scenes show the sky or if the image is very bright I see some artifacts, like many un-even lines.
This is happening when I toggle the image enchancement too much. Nothing happens if I set super resolution to max. But toggling detail enchancement more than 30/30 starts micro flickering with lines.

Any help?



Probably not much, I'm not familiar with using a PC as the source for 4k material. A couple things I can think of, only one of the HDMI ports is used for 4k material, so if you're using the wrong one you obviously won't be getting the 4k enhancement. I use a 4k blu ray player as well as Netflix and amazon prime for most of my 4k viewing, and preset 2 and haven't experienced any of the artifacts or flickering you're experiencing. Obviously the quality of the source material varies but for the most part 4k has been pretty outstanding in my experience. One other thing, turning the detail enhancement up to it's highest setting is likely going to have negative results, 30 isn't the best setting just because it's the highest setting, same principle as turning the contrast settings or brightness settings all the way up on a flat panel, not going to produce great results. I would suggest that you start with a basic 4k blu ray source fed through one of the presets and use it as a process of elimination to see if you have a problem with the projector or settings. Something like Planet earth 4k is a great reference point. Good luck.

Last edited by shasta; 08-23-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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post #65 of 89 Old 08-24-2019, 07:16 PM
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Probably not much, I'm not familiar with using a PC as the source for 4k material. A couple things I can think of, only one of the HDMI ports is used for 4k material, so if you're using the wrong one you obviously won't be getting the 4k enhancement. I use a 4k blu ray player as well as Netflix and amazon prime for most of my 4k viewing, and preset 2 and haven't experienced any of the artifacts or flickering you're experiencing. Obviously the quality of the source material varies but for the most part 4k has been pretty outstanding in my experience. One other thing, turning the detail enhancement up to it's highest setting is likely going to have negative results, 30 isn't the best setting just because it's the highest setting, same principle as turning the contrast settings or brightness settings all the way up on a flat panel, not going to produce great results. I would suggest that you start with a basic 4k blu ray source fed through one of the presets and use it as a process of elimination to see if you have a problem with the projector or settings. Something like Planet earth 4k is a great reference point. Good luck.


Tested the projector on a friends self made screen hence the results. Tried it on my brand new silver ticket and looks gorgeous! I don't like that fact that the artifacts are there when I tweak the details but I can understand the reason why it happens!

Be carefull boyz, if you are new to the game, choose a good screen and don't DIY!
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post #66 of 89 Old 08-26-2019, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by aleX treme View Post
Tested the projector on a friends self made screen hence the results. Tried it on my brand new silver ticket and looks gorgeous! I don't like that fact that the artifacts are there when I tweak the details but I can understand the reason why it happens!

Be carefull boyz, if you are new to the game, choose a good screen and don't DIY!



Good to hear, I'm only a few years into this hobby myself and there's a great deal to learn. I found out quickly that it's not as simple as picking a flat screen, getting it calibrated and your done. So many more considerations with projectors such as location, lighting conditions, and really none more important than how you intended use it for viewing. Fortunately there is a wealth of first hand information here and I've always found that the people posting on this forum are eager to share their knowledge. It's actually a great time to be a projector enthusiast, especially if your in the under $3,000.00 market, there are so many dramatic innovations in quality bleeding into the lower end hardware that just two or three years ago couldn't be had until you breached that $5-10 grand threshold. Such is technology.
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post #67 of 89 Old 10-01-2019, 09:22 AM
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HC4010 and 4K Netflix

I'm looking at a projector upgrade and really like the Epson HC4010 but am concerned about how future proof it is with just the 10Gbps HDMI1.4. In particular I'd like to watch 4k content from Netflix. From what I can tell Netflix plays 4k HDR content at 60 fps but the 4010 can only accept HDR at 30 fps. I'll be driving the 4010 primarily from my HTPC (an Intel NUC) which has a 18 Gbps HDMI2.0a output. My question is when playing 4k HDR content will the player (I'll be using the Netflix app or the netflix Kodi/plex plug-ins) automatically drop back to 30fps?

If it does is it then possible to use frame interpolation to bring it back up to 60fps? I'm not worried if it can't just curious.

I'd be very grateful if some 4010 owners could tell me what their netflix 4k experience is like with this projector.

I know people will likely tell me to wait for the 3800 (and I'm dying to see the first reviews of it) but aside from the 18Gbps and HLG support I dont see it having much advantages over the 4010.
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post #68 of 89 Old 10-01-2019, 12:40 PM
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The actual content on Netflix is mostly at 24 fps for movies. Different Netflix apps play it differently, but for example the Apple TV 4K will play it at 24, and the same for Amazon content (with Match Frame Rate set ON). This does mean that 4k HDR is within the chipset limitations and has the advantage that original 24 fps material is shown that way.



My own PJ is the Epson 7300 which is similarly hobbled by the chipset limitation, and it works fine with Netflix and Amazon material as long as it is at the original 24p. It may be that using your NUC for Netflix loses the ability to run at the original frame rate, when converted to 60p you won't get HDR.
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post #69 of 89 Old 10-01-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rjguk View Post
The actual content on Netflix is mostly at 24 fps for movies. Different Netflix apps play it differently, but for example the Apple TV 4K will play it at 24, and the same for Amazon content (with Match Frame Rate set ON). This does mean that 4k HDR is within the chipset limitations and has the advantage that original 24 fps material is shown that way.



My own PJ is the Epson 7300 which is similarly hobbled by the chipset limitation, and it works fine with Netflix and Amazon material as long as it is at the original 24p. It may be that using your NUC for Netflix loses the ability to run at the original frame rate, when converted to 60p you won't get HDR.
Thanks for your response rjguk.
Have you managed to watch any series (I'm guessing that these would be 60p) that are marked as HDR in Netflix on your 7300? Aslo do you know if is possible to watch HDR content just as SDR (as the HDMI bandwidth would allow this at 60p) ?
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post #70 of 89 Old 10-02-2019, 01:58 AM
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Thanks for your response rjguk.
Have you managed to watch any series (I'm guessing that these would be 60p) that are marked as HDR in Netflix on your 7300? Aslo do you know if is possible to watch HDR content just as SDR (as the HDMI bandwidth would allow this at 60p) ?

There are different types of non-movie content. There's the material created at 50p from the UK, that created at 60p from the US, and that created by Netflix/Amazon as their 'originals' which is often at 24p. Plus other stuff.
You won't get HDR on the material greater then 30 due to bandwidth unless it is 1080p which is highly unlikely. The key is to have a player that can use the original frame rate, as soon as the player is forcing 60p then most options are off the table. There's plenty of 24p content that works fine in HDR (given the brightness limitations of the PJ anyway). Most players/apps will simply show you the SDR version of material if HDR isn't possible.



The Sky Q box for example forces eveything to 50 so UHD can only be shown if the bit-depth is reduced to 8 (which it can do), Then you'll get banding, and it doesn't yet have HDR. When it gets it they will probably use HLG, which is another three-letter-abbreviation that you'll need to consider.


All told it is a minefield, and much of the trouble is caused by the 10.2 Gbps issue. If you can stretch to a 9400/5050/6050 or wait for another one that does 18 Gbps then most of those problems go away. Then you can play stuff at 50p/60p, you'll get HDR and support for HLG, and you'll get much better out of the box HDR viewing since the PJ is much improved in that area. Of course your AV amp and cables will need to be compatible, it never ends but you might consider trying to future-proof it for a while at least.


Your post over on the UK site seemed to get lost in the noise, I saw both but replied to this one.
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post #71 of 89 Old 10-02-2019, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rjguk View Post
There are different types of non-movie content. There's the material created at 50p from the UK, that created at 60p from the US, and that created by Netflix/Amazon as their 'originals' which is often at 24p. Plus other stuff.
You won't get HDR on the material greater then 30 due to bandwidth unless it is 1080p which is highly unlikely. The key is to have a player that can use the original frame rate, as soon as the player is forcing 60p then most options are off the table. There's plenty of 24p content that works fine in HDR (given the brightness limitations of the PJ anyway). Most players/apps will simply show you the SDR version of material if HDR isn't possible.



The Sky Q box for example forces eveything to 50 so UHD can only be shown if the bit-depth is reduced to 8 (which it can do), Then you'll get banding, and it doesn't yet have HDR. When it gets it they will probably use HLG, which is another three-letter-abbreviation that you'll need to consider.


All told it is a minefield, and much of the trouble is caused by the 10.2 Gbps issue. If you can stretch to a 9400/5050/6050 or wait for another one that does 18 Gbps then most of those problems go away. Then you can play stuff at 50p/60p, you'll get HDR and support for HLG, and you'll get much better out of the box HDR viewing since the PJ is much improved in that area. Of course your AV amp and cables will need to be compatible, it never ends but you might consider trying to future-proof it for a while at least.


Your post over on the UK site seemed to get lost in the noise, I saw both but replied to this one.
Alas I dont have a batcave so cant justify the stretch to the 9400/5050. I'm inclined to see how I get on with the 4010 (TW7400 in Europe) and resort to something like a HD Fury to downconvert to HDR 30p if I run into a lot of problems with content (I dont think I will for a while at least). My receiver is next in line for an upgrade after the PJ so I may be able to do something there in time. Alternatively if the new 3200/3800 projectors from Epson (TW7000/7100 in Europe) get rave reviews then they could be the answer but I doubt the picture quality will be as good as the 4010. Alternatively the BenQ HT3550 (W2700) ticks my boxes but doesnt appeal to me as much as the Epsons (the placement flexibility in particular is far better with the Epsons). Thanks for you help.
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post #72 of 89 Old 10-28-2019, 11:09 AM
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I am looking at getting either a 4010 or 5050. If I am understanding it correctly, I can still view 4k HDR blu rays on the 4010 correct? And from a gaming perspective I can play xbox one x games in 4k but not HDR? Otherwise I think they are pretty much the same.
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post #73 of 89 Old 10-29-2019, 05:21 PM
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I am looking at getting either a 4010 or 5050. If I am understanding it correctly, I can still view 4k HDR blu rays on the 4010 correct? And from a gaming perspective I can play xbox one x games in 4k but not HDR? Otherwise I think they are pretty much the same.

There is currently only one 4k Blu-ray the 4010 cannot play in HDR as most others are 24 fps (aka 24 Hz... well within its 10 Gbps limitation). If you stream Netflix you have to find a streaming device that will output native 24 fps with the Netflix app. Netflix has not updated its app for all streamers to play native 24 fps HDR content at the correct frame rate, forcing everything to 60 fps (aka 60 Hz), which the 4010 cannot handle and will switch to SDR mode.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #74 of 89 Old 10-31-2019, 07:10 PM
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Just received my 4010 today. Went back and forth a Ton between this and the 5050ub. This projector is amazing! I am coming from a BenQ1070a and before that a BenQ 1070 and Optoma 4805 and Panasonic units before that. Image is bright and super clear. Still trying to figure out how to save the lens memory settings but can't wait to really dial this thing in. Watched about 45 mins of toy story 4 in 4k blu ray and it looked amazing. That was just through xbox one x, till have a penny 820 to setup so Hoping its going to get even better. looking to try some xbox gaming later.

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post #75 of 89 Old 11-01-2019, 07:32 PM
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Well the love affair lasted 24 hours. Tonight while using my xbox one x the 4010 shut off on 5 different occasions. Just randomly? No flashing lights nothing. Just shut off. I could restart right away but this is very concerning. ANyone else have this issue? I stayed away from the 5040ub and 5050ub over concerns with the power supply. Are all Epsons like this? I had 2 BenQs over the last 8 years, ran them for hours on end and NEVER once did either of them shut off on me.
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post #76 of 89 Old 11-01-2019, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marjen View Post
Well the love affair lasted 24 hours. Tonight while using my xbox one x the 4010 shut off on 5 different occasions. Just randomly? No flashing lights nothing. Just shut off. I could restart right away but this is very concerning. ANyone else have this issue? I stayed away from the 5040ub and 5050ub over concerns with the power supply. Are all Epsons like this? I had 2 BenQs over the last 8 years, ran them for hours on end and NEVER once did either of them shut off on me.
I've heard rumors the 4000/4010 models have had power supply failures like the 5040, only they aren't as widespread of an issue...

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--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #77 of 89 Old 11-02-2019, 06:39 AM
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I've heard rumors the 4000/4010 models have had power supply failures like the 5040, only they aren't as widespread of an issue...

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Fantastic. I have a feeling this is going back. I’ve had it 2 days so probably will just return to amazon. Not sure if I will try another one. It’s frustrating because it checks all the boxes and there is nothing else in the price range that seems to meet my needs.
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Fantastic. I have a feeling this is going back. I’ve had it 2 days so probably will just return to amazon. Not sure if I will try another one. It’s frustrating because it checks all the boxes and there is nothing else in the price range that seems to meet my needs.
For me the bang for the buck is so good and the failure rates are still very low that it's worth the risk.

I had a 4000 last year and just upgraded to the 5040 this year ($1151 refurbished sale) and neither have had issues....

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--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #79 of 89 Old 11-02-2019, 10:50 AM
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Official Epson Home Cinema 4010 / Pro Cinema 4050 Owner’s Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by marjen View Post
Just received my 4010 today. Went back and forth a Ton between this and the 5050ub. This projector is amazing! I am coming from a BenQ1070a and before that a BenQ 1070 and Optoma 4805 and Panasonic units before that. Image is bright and super clear. Still trying to figure out how to save the lens memory settings but can't wait to really dial this thing in. Watched about 45 mins of toy story 4 in 4k blu ray and it looked amazing. That was just through xbox one x, till have a penny 820 to setup so Hoping its going to get even better. looking to try some xbox gaming later.


also an owner of BenQ 1070 and contemplating on upgrading to 4k HDR PJ..
Would like to get an input from w1070 owners

1. Were u able to use the same mounting bracket?
2. same distance?
3. how the overall PQ vs 1070?
4. How is the HDR performance? on my 1070, HDR looks dark.


TiA


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post #80 of 89 Old 11-03-2019, 12:25 AM
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Are there any rumors of a next generation of these coming out in the foreseeable future?
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post #81 of 89 Old 11-03-2019, 08:23 AM
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Are there any rumors of a next generation of these coming out in the foreseeable future?
Nothing was mentioned at CEDIA. No upcoming 4020 was in the lineup with 18 Gbps HDMI ports and 60 Hz HDR support. The 3800 with its manual zoom lens was the newest pixel shift 4k model. I would imagine Epson is dropping the 40xx line and starting with the 50xx line of power lensed projectors. It eases the redundancy in the manufacturing side of things and forces you to pay more for a motorized lens.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 11-03-2019 at 08:27 AM.
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post #82 of 89 Old 11-03-2019, 09:51 AM
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Nothing was mentioned at CEDIA. No upcoming 4020 was in the lineup with 18 Gbps HDMI ports and 60 Hz HDR support. The 3800 with its manual zoom lens was the newest pixel shift 4k model. I would imagine Epson is dropping the 40xx line and starting with the 50xx line of power lensed projectors. It eases the redundancy in the manufacturing side of things and forces you to pay more for a motorized lens.
Gotcha.

With the slower HDMI port, how limited is HDR content? No Dolby Vision?

Debating on getting this projector next month or waiting to see what comes out in 2020.
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post #83 of 89 Old 11-03-2019, 10:33 AM
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Nothing was mentioned at CEDIA. No upcoming 4020 was in the lineup with 18 Gbps HDMI ports and 60 Hz HDR support. The 3800 with its manual zoom lens was the newest pixel shift 4k model. I would imagine Epson is dropping the 40xx line and starting with the 50xx line of power lensed projectors. It eases the redundancy in the manufacturing side of things and forces you to pay more for a motorized lens.
Gotcha.

With the slower HDMI port, how limited is HDR content? No Dolby Vision?

Debating on getting this projector next month or waiting to see what comes out in 2020.
There is no dynamic Dolby Vision (with 12 bit processing) support for consumer projectors with auto tone mapping for the capabilities of each particular projector model... at least not yet. Static HDR10 and even broadcast HLG HDR on some, yes. Some models have their own proprietary scene-by-scene HDR tone mapping like with JVC projectors.

If you stream anything, you have to make sure the streaming unit and the included apps can output native 24 fps with 4k HDR... if you choose the 4010. You're good to go with UHD Blu-ray discs as a total of one title is 60 fps with HDR. 99.99% are 30 fps or less.

Games with 60 Hz HDR are a no go with the 4010 as they will be downconverted to SDR.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 11-03-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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post #84 of 89 Old 11-03-2019, 03:53 PM
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Got a new TW7400 unit (4010 that is in US market), replaced my old BENQ 720p projector I bough a decade ago.
The difference is STUNNING (as it should be).
However, it's got some serious convergence issues - looks like it's off by a whole pixel!
Wonder if I should return it while I can or is it the best results I can get and a replacement unit will have the same issues?
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post #85 of 89 Old 11-04-2019, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
also an owner of BenQ 1070 and contemplating on upgrading to 4k HDR PJ..
Would like to get an input from w1070 owners

1. Were u able to use the same mounting bracket?
I have the 4010 in the top of a shelf so not using a mounting bracket.

2. same distance?
Due to room constraint the project is against the back wall which is 13.5 ft from screen. So not the same as the BenQ
3. how the overall PQ vs 1070?
The picture is better. Looks sharper, better blacks for sure. Also brighter. Quite pleased with the image.
4. How is the HDR performance? on my 1070, HDR looks dark.
BenQ is not HDR ready so not sure how you are viewing HDR content on the 1070? Have not Dailed it in yet. Looks good, a little dark but juries out till I play with the settings a little.
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Happy with the performance when it works. Had it 4 days. 2 days it worked with no issues and 2 of the days it would just shut off for no reason. Happened again yesterday. Used the projector for 5-6 hours and at one point it just went off. No orange lights or anything it just shut down. I can start it back up so does not seem to be same issue as the 5040ub problem. Interestingly so far it has only happened while using the xbox one. I am going to check my settings on my Apple TV as when I was done last night and shut it off, it also shut off the projector. So I don't know if the Apple TV has been on in the background a few times then shut off due to no use and shut off the projector. I guess its a possibility so going to explore that.
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post #86 of 89 Old 11-04-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by marjen View Post
Happy with the performance when it works. Had it 4 days. 2 days it worked with no issues and 2 of the days it would just shut off for no reason. Happened again yesterday. Used the projector for 5-6 hours and at one point it just went off. No orange lights or anything it just shut down. I can start it back up so does not seem to be same issue as the 5040ub problem. Interestingly so far it has only happened while using the xbox one. I am going to check my settings on my Apple TV as when I was done last night and shut it off, it also shut off the projector. So I don't know if the Apple TV has been on in the background a few times then shut off due to no use and shut off the projector. I guess its a possibility so going to explore that.
Have not read the entire thread! i hope its isolated and u find the solution. This is alarming and i also read somewhere re: power supply.


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post #87 of 89 Old 11-04-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by theWr View Post
Got a new TW7400 unit (4010 that is in US market), replaced my old BENQ 720p projector I bough a decade ago.
The difference is STUNNING (as it should be).
However, it's got some serious convergence issues - looks like it's off by a whole pixel!
Wonder if I should return it while I can or is it the best results I can get and a replacement unit will have the same issues?
There should be an option to fix the convergence in the menu:
https://files.support.epson.com/doci...lhc5030ub.html
https://files.support.epson.com/doci...50_4855wu.html
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Last edited by noob00224; 11-04-2019 at 06:17 AM.
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post #88 of 89 Old 11-04-2019, 12:37 PM
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There should be an option to fix the convergence in the menu:
Apparently my menu doesn't have this option, actually it is different from those two. I've already read the docs and came to a conclusion that this model just doesn't have the alignment option.
Until I went thru all the menus again and found it one level deeper!

Than you so much, kind stranger! You saved my nerves!
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post #89 of 89 Old 11-07-2019, 05:56 AM
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I may have figured out why the projector was shutting off. I think it might have been the Apple TV going to sleep and triggering the projector with it. It only ever happened when I was playing xbox and I think the Apple TV may have been on all those times. I have changed the settings in the Apple TV to not control other items and since then the projector has not shut down. Will see how it goes.
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