BenQ W5700 / HT5550 4K 100% DCI-P3 Projector Announcement and Owner’s Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 873 Old 04-06-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
Thanks for the photos. I just did not quite get what is the difference between the mode in these photos. Was it a change between 1080p and 4K "wobulation mode"?

I can see pixels clearly on lower, while upper one has readable smaller text above Viggo's name (which appear a bit blurry looking) but pixel structure not appear as clearly.
The top is normal operating mode which is 4k with wobulation on and the bottom was in silence mode which disables the wobulation and just makes it display in the chip's native 1080p. I could probably take a better picture but the small text is definitely more readable with the wobulation on.

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post #272 of 873 Old 04-06-2019, 02:10 PM
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That's what I thought. Obviously "wobulation" makes noticeable difference but I guess something could have been just lost due to silent mode when I supposed 4K material got downscaled to 1080p by the projector, because I would imagine the same scene in native 1080p material would have that small text still readable.
Anyway it would be interesting to see how 4K resolution patterns really look like in these new BenQ's.
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post #273 of 873 Old 04-06-2019, 07:58 PM
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Does anyone know how the size of the HT5550 compares to the 5040UB?
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post #274 of 873 Old 04-06-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
That's what I thought. Obviously "wobulation" makes noticeable difference but I guess something could have been just lost due to silent mode when I supposed 4K material got downscaled to 1080p by the projector, because I would imagine the same scene in native 1080p material would have that small text still readable.

Anyway it would be interesting to see how 4K resolution patterns really look like in these new BenQ's.


Here’s what PassionHomeCinema had to say regarding the less expensive HT3550/W2700



http://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog...is-de-gregory/
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post #275 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I wonder if you did testing and/or can tell us about performance using Smarteco rather than the DI?
I got the measurement of contrast in SmartEco 441:1 which is worse then Light mode: Normal DI engaged 3150:1 in Cinema 709. However, smartEco look much brighter.

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post #276 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 02:19 AM
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Ensure not to lose too much brightness, I calibrated my own setting use Light mode: Normal (still WCG on). It increased the brightness to 50 nits, however, need to sacrificed contrast.

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post #277 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jimchao View Post
W5700 (HT5550) arrived last night, I couldn't wait to try all of its features to see how it performs, No more guessing games, no more rumors. Since I am the first time BenQ projector user, sorry I can't answer any question regard to HT2550 nor TK800's comparison.
Thanks for your detailed review! It was nice to see actual numbers as eyeballing something is so much depending on the eye of beholder and personal preferences.
Few questions came to my mind reading your review.

Is colour space 100% like BenQ says it is in DCI-P3 mode? It is hard to tell from the graphics as reference triangle is not the same. If you compare measured RGB points to DCI-P3 targets, do they reach them?

Also could you please post some numbers behind those measurements, like Delta E for colours and ft-L readings for black level in DI and non DI modes?

Contrast ratio readings what I saw in your review are quite poor when compared against my trusty over decade old W5000. It goes easily with DI to over 5000:1 and without DI it is in the range on 1000:1. Ansi contrast is around 450:1 and black level is around 0.003-0.004 ft-L with DI. Also it has pretty low black level as it is not that bright in the begin with but I've been satisfied with it and I'm hesitating if I could live with W5700 since it is so much brighter and contrast ratio is lower, so it must have much worse black level I think.

BenQ factory calibration however looks pretty good with nice even "lines". I bet that red push in gray scale charts is from brand new lamp and it will even up when there are more hours on the lamp. Maybe BenQ intentionally calibrated it so that it will be more accurate after some lamp wear?

Last edited by Big Lebowski; 04-07-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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post #278 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 09:33 AM
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=Big Lebowski;57867068]Thanks for your detailed review! It was nice to see actual numbers as eyeballing something is so much depending on the eye of beholder and personal preferences.
Few questions came to my mind reading your review.

Is colour space 100% like BenQ says it is in DCI-P3 mode? It is hard to tell from the graphics as reference triangle is not the same. If you compare measured RGB points to DCI-P3 targets, do they reach them?
I have updated a graphic of DCI-P3 view.

Quote:
=Also could you please post some numbers behind those measurements, like Delta E for colours and ft-L readings for black level in DI and non DI modes?

Contrast ratio readings what I saw in your review are quite poor when compared against my trusty over decade old W5000. It goes easily with DI to over 5000:1 and without DI it is in the range on 1000:1. Ansi contrast is around 450:1 and black level is around 000.3-000.4 ft-L with DI. Also it has pretty low black level as it is not that bright in the begin with but I've been satisfied with it and I'm hesitating if I could live with W5700 since it is so much brighter and contrast ratio is lower, so it must have much worse black level I think.
I know you are trying to compare to your old W5000 which uses 0.95 chip. As my review, it just can't compete some old hi-end PJs, especially on the contrast. I may say, they are in different level. Or maybe this is the first gen. of WCG PJ, still way to go. Maybe we can wait for some other trusted professional measurement review later.

Quote:
=BenQ factory calibration however looks pretty good with nice even "lines". I bet that red push in gray scale charts is from brand new lamp and it will even up when there are more hours on the lamp. Maybe BenQ intentionally calibrated it so that it will be more accurate after some lamp wear?
I normally check my PJ every 6 months, so let's wait the lamp runs a while.

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post #279 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jimchao View Post
I have updated a graphic of DCI-P3 view.
Great, thanks. Seems that BenQ was not exaggerating about 100% DCI-P3, looks pretty damn close to perfect.

Quote:
I know you are trying to compare to your old W5000 which uses 0.95 chip. As my review, it just can't compete some old hi-end PJs, especially on the contrast. I may say, they are in different level. Or maybe this is the first gen. of WCG PJ, still way to go. Maybe we can wait for some other trusted professional measurement review later.
That's what I was afraid but as my current projector is over 10 years old, I must prepare myself to that it may die anyday. Since material I mostly watch is still 1080p resolution and some odd DVD's occasionally, so even with UHD projector I'd say over 95% would still be those.

Could you still post what readings for black with and without DI you measured from yours? I'm trying to figure out how grey blacks are in these 4K DLP's today, is it like 2-3x higher than in mine? It is impossible to tell surely that from the screenshots, honestly those you posted look better than what my projector looks in real life, so I guess it cannot look that good in reality…?
Seem that comparing to W2700 review I saw, even that had twice as good native contrast than W5700 which is a bit odd.

EDIT.
I did some conversions based on the nits reading you mentioned and if I didn't make mistake I got following numbers.
Rec.709
53 nits = 15.47 ft-L
3150:1 contrast ratio with DI on
so 15.47 / 3150 = 0.0049 ft-L black

DCI-P3
35 nits = 10,22 ft-L
1700:1 contrast ratio with DI on
so 10.22 / 1700 = 0.006 ft-L black

Obviously those numbers are higher but maybe not as bad as I first thought. Maybe I could compensate a little by dropping brightness to get even deeper black but hard to say if it makes picture just seem flat as contrast ratio is pretty low in the begin with. Have you made any test how ansi contrast is in W5700? I guess based on the full on/off contrast ratio without DI you mentioned, it must be only in the range of 200:1 or so?

EDIT 2. Then again just realizing that your screen is quite large (135") causes that black level would be much higher with mine about 95" screen, so I guess my first estimation might have matched better (2-3x higher than in my current pj).

Quote:
I normally check my PJ every 6 months, so let's wait the lamp runs a while.
I used to track mine also often in the first few years but then I noticed that Philips lamp used in mine was very consistent and even replacement lamp did not made difference in readings so much that adjustments were needed. Isn't it Philips lamp in this model too? I hope they are still as good as they use to be. At least lifetime has improved a lot, so I guess they might be still really good.

Last edited by Big Lebowski; 04-07-2019 at 11:31 AM.
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post #280 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 12:35 PM
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@scottyroo read in the other thread that you're having issues with your HDMI splitter. Do you happen to have an AVR with dual HDMI output?

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post #281 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robl2 View Post
@scottyroo read in the other thread that you're having issues with your HDMI splitter. Do you happen to have an AVR with dual HDMI output?
I do but it’s not feasible to run another HDMI. The smurf tube doesn’t have room for another 40’ 24 AWG cable.

I do have 30’ runs into my theater room from my Xbox, Blu Ray and Shied to the receiver. Those won’t be long enough to get to projector position but perhaps I can use the splitter as an HDMI amplifier just for the BenQ.

I have another splitter arriving on Tuesday to test as well. I have a few ideas mulling... I wish it were just something like changing the Epsons EDID settings (tried that)

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post #282 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 02:36 PM
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Ah yeah, my receiver is a 5 feet from my projector, so that's easy

When you get a chance to compare The Dark Knight between the 5050 and the 5550, could you do both 1080p SDR and the 4K HDR for that scene? Thanks so much!
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post #283 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robl2 View Post
@scottyroo read in the other thread that you're having issues with your HDMI splitter. Do you happen to have an AVR with dual HDMI output?


Rob... second time in a week where you have really pulled through!!


I don’t have the cable length with my existing input sources in my theater room so I didn’t think it would work. After thinking about it for a bit I tried using my existing splitter as an 1:1 amplifier and it WORKED with the 2nd hdmi output on my receiver! Both HT5550 and 5050 are displaying HDR at same time and the handshaking is much smoother than the finicky splitter.

I just cancelled my amazon orders for new cables and splitters. You saved me $80!

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post #284 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Now I can put these to use! My triple black velvet wrapped rigid foam with counter weights. I made them with longer arms so the masking isn’t so close/blurry to the projectors. This gives me a clean side by side line to work with in comparisons.

Excited to finally work on side by side!


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post #285 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
I don’t have the cable length with my existing input sources in my theater room so I didn’t think it would work. After thinking about it for a bit I tried using my existing splitter as an 1:1 amplifier and it WORKED with the 2nd hdmi output on my receiver! Both HT5550 and 5050 are displaying HDR at same time and the handshaking is much smoother than the finicky splitter.
Love it! That's some nice creative thinking there

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post #286 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Rob... second time in a week where you have really pulled through!!


I don’t have the cable length with my existing input sources in my theater room so I didn’t think it would work. After thinking about it for a bit I tried using my existing splitter as an 1:1 amplifier and it WORKED with the 2nd hdmi output on my receiver! Both HT5550 and 5050 are displaying HDR at same time and the handshaking is much smoother than the finicky splitter.

I just cancelled my amazon orders for new cables and splitters. You saved me $80!
Scotty,

Could you share the hint you received that is apparently about using the splitter in a different way.

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post #287 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Scotty,

Could you share the hint you received that is apparently about using the splitter in a different way.
If you have a splitter and only one output is connected to the splitter, the splitter does a simple pass thru (most models) and acts as a signal amplifier. I was in a situation where I needed an extra 6 feet of cable length so I just used it in this way and it seems to be working well for this use case

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post #288 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robl2 View Post
Ah yeah, my receiver is a 5 feet from my projector, so that's easy



When you get a chance to compare The Dark Knight between the 5050 and the 5550, could you do both 1080p SDR and the 4K HDR for that scene? Thanks so much!


Alright you got first dibs on shootout material.

I used a Canon 6D in these shots. All were shot with 1/5 shutter speed, 4000 ISO, f5.6.

Benq HT5550 on left. Epson 5050 on right.

Epson has better black floor (see letter boxes in HDR) but hopefully you can pick up in the shots that the BenQ has better shadow detail.

HDR default. Both are in default Modes out of box settings in this picture. Both P3 filters on. Both irises are on. Epson set to Digital Cinema.



SDR Default. BenQ Cinema (Rec709) Mode and Epson Natural Mode. My 1080p SDR version of the film had the IMAX 16:10 ratios baked in. Filters off. Iris on.



Preferred HDR. BenQ set to HDR Brightness +1. That’s it. Epson is using calibrated settings from @Alaric based on Dogital Cinema. Both filters and irises still on.



Preferred SDR. BenQ Cinema (Rec709) mode. Brilliant Color. @Alaric ‘s calibrated SDR mode based on Natural. Filters off. Irises on.

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Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
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post #289 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone remember what it was like when you got an iPhone 4 back in 2010? At first the “retina” resolution didn’t blow me away. Frankly I was happy with my resolution on my 3GS. Then I used the iPhone 4 for a month and picked ya my wife’s 3GS and realized how much of a difference the increased resolution made. Maybe not to that scale but that’s kind of what I’m experiencing with the HT5550 and Epson 5050. I’ve heard for so long that it 1080x2 is no different from 1080x4 and you can’t tell from normal viewing.

Lots to love about the Epson. But I can definitely tell on my 160” screen.

Ht5550

5050UB

FOV
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"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
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post #290 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Does anyone remember what it was like when you got an iPhone 4 back in 2010? At first the “retina” resolution didn’t blow me away. Frankly I was happy with my resolution on my 3GS. Then I used the iPhone 4 for a month and picked ya my wife’s 3GS and realized how much of a difference the increased resolution made. Maybe not to that scale but that’s kind of what I’m experiencing with the HT5550 and Epson 5050. I’ve heard for so long that it 1080x2 is no different from 1080x4 and you can’t tell from normal viewing.
Are you able to snap up some pics in windows of text and icons between the two?
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post #291 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 08:56 PM
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Most of the scenes shown on the comparison pictures throughout the AVS threads always show dark scenes like these that also have some lights within that help fool the eye.My experience with contrast and black level problems have been with scenes that are dark all they way through with only limited shades of lighter colors within the scene. These are the ones that really expose the differences between the projectors. Can you show any scenes like that?

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post #292 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 09:00 PM
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Im split between the epson 5050 or benq w5700 projectors and im ready to buy as soon as they are launched. So big appreciation to the reviews of this forum and all the great insight it directly effects my decision.


Honeslty is it just me or are the blacks in those photos almost identical?? Heres me thinking the epson had a big lead in terms of inky blacks, I guess it might take a trained eye.


The colour is where im hoping the Benq will take over as i do prefer the full 4k to 2k.

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post #293 of 873 Old 04-07-2019, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Alright you got first dibs on shootout material.

I used a Canon 6D in these shots. All were shot with 1/5 shutter speed, 4000 ISO, f5.6.

Benq HT5550 on left. Epson 5050 on right.
Thank you for all your hard work Scott. It's appreciated!

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post #294 of 873 Old 04-08-2019, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DivineMoshka View Post
Im split between the epson 5050 or benq w5700 projectors and im ready to buy as soon as they are launched. So big appreciation to the reviews of this forum and all the great insight it directly effects my decision.


Honeslty is it just me or are the blacks in those photos almost identical?? Heres me thinking the epson had a big lead in terms of inky blacks, I guess it might take a trained eye.


The colour is where im hoping the Benq will take over as i do prefer the full 4k to 2k.
You cannot use someone else's calibrated settings, it just does not work, even a ballpark figure can be out by enough to invalidate things. Photos often make black levels on projectors look the same when they are not.

Out of the box settings will be different for each projector too, the BenQ could be better out of the box, when calibrated shadow detail should be as good on each projector, shadow detail is a calibration issue.

I find little value to these images, but to each their own. What i need is someone with a meter and Calman or Chromapure to measure the projectors when CALIBRATED, 14ft lambert to 16ft lambert for Rec.709 and then measure again for DCI P3 and preferably measure with and without the filter in place as this projector is supposed to cover 95% of P3 without the filter.

I also would like to know brightness in 3D, but proper calibrated brightness.

When someone can do all that i will be grateful, its the only way to see a projectors true potential.
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post #295 of 873 Old 04-08-2019, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted Mcvey View Post
You cannot use someone else's calibrated settings, it just does not work, even a ballpark figure can be out by enough to invalidate things. Photos often make black levels on projectors look the same when they are not.

Out of the box settings will be different for each projector too, the BenQ could be better out of the box, when calibrated shadow detail should be as good on each projector, shadow detail is a calibration issue.

I find little value to these images, but to each their own. What i need is someone with a meter and Calman or Chromapure to measure the projectors when CALIBRATED, 14ft lambert to 16ft lambert for Rec.709 and then measure again for DCI P3 and preferably measure with and without the filter in place as this projector is supposed to cover 95% of P3 without the filter.

I also would like to know brightness in 3D, but proper calibrated brightness.

When someone can do all that i will be grateful, its the only way to see a projectors true potential.
i agree.....the anticipation is building to see a colourful shootout between epson 5050 and w5700 for coloir comparison...


also it would be good to know what the lowest input lag that can be achieved is and what settings ... i do some occasional gaming from time time but no fast paced shooting or anything....60ms is high ...can it be lowered with bettwr settings ?

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post #296 of 873 Old 04-08-2019, 04:29 AM
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Still, something feel comfort, dynamic iris indeed helps the dark scenes go deeper. This is obviously showed in my calibration result. I got a native contrast 600:1 in Cinema (rec.709) mode, when the DI is active, it goes to 3150:1. However, result showed it slightly effect the gamma that eyes barely notice. Scooty mentioned BenQ technicians told him the iris will be tuned complete shut off and add some DI level adjustments. In my case, mine still can see the light out of the projector when it is in 0% gray scale. Hope mine can be improved as soon as BenQ have further fixing. Besides, I still can notice DI activating initially, also some sudden super bright goes to very dark scenes. But this is not really annoying or notice during the movies.

This figure caused tremors in the German HiFi Forum. Didn't the HT3550 do better and is it entirely the dynamic iris that saves the day concerning black levels?

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Are you able to snap up some pics in windows of text and icons between the two?


Yes!

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Most of the scenes shown on the comparison pictures throughout the AVS threads always show dark scenes like these that also have some lights within that help fool the eye.My experience with contrast and black level problems have been with scenes that are dark all they way through with only limited shades of lighter colors within the scene. These are the ones that really expose the differences between the projectors. Can you show any scenes like that?


Agreed that would be helpful. Examples?

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This figure caused tremors in the German HiFi Forum. Didn't the HT3550 do better and is it entirely the dynamic iris that saves the day concerning black levels?
I was also devastated about this W5700 low native contrast figure. Based on the Cine4home W2700 review, they measured native contrast for it 1100: 1 to 1600: 1 depending on the zoom position and DI contrast of 4000: 1 to 6200:1 also depending on the zoom.

I'm afraid that might be a result from the difference in dynamic iris implementation between the two models since from what I've heard in this thread the W5700 does not have DI placed in the lens like the W2700 has. I believe placing it in the lens so that it changes the aperture and preferably in cats eye shaped gives the best results instead of putting it say in between the lamp and the DLP chip. For example my current W5000 has both of these, where dynamic iris is placed on the lens doing its magic by increasing contrast ratio and then another manually controller iris that is somewhere between the lamp and DLP chip for controlling light output and it has pretty much no effect on contrast ratio. I'm not sure how it has implemented in W5700 since based on the initial measurements in this thread showing DI does also increase contrast ratio but it is still rather "poorish" even compared to its cheaper brother.

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I guess this is the moment where I loose track.


IIRC, the native contrast of the HT 3550 (W2700) and the HT 5550 (W5700) were both measured before the dynamic iris came to the 'rescue'. (and the HT 3550 also features some 'lens shift').


So IMHO it stands to reason that the native contrast should be the same (before DI takes over), or has BenQ started to dispose older 0.47" DMDs with lightframe inside the HT5550?

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