BenQ W5700 / HT5550 4K 100% DCI-P3 Projector Announcement and Owner’s Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
Dangit! That's the one thing I truly need. It's great for movies, but I do have an Oppo to do the stretch if I need it, but where it truly shines is PC gaming. Being able to use my lens to play games like Forza 7 in super widescreen is simply amazing. I've emailed them and asked them if it's something they can include in a future update. Thanks for your impressions. Any thoughts on black levels? Acceptable? I'm not a black level junkie like some of the JVC purists are, but my current DLPs blacks are, well, grey. The picture is great, but the really dark scenes show its weakness. It's the Optoma HD3300 and even for that budget projector it has anamorphic stretch. It really should be included in all projectors above the 2K price range.


Nice! I play forza Horizon 4 on my xb1x on the 160” screen and it’s glorious. My wife: “oh wow. I can definitely tell a difference” when I showed her the ht5550. Blacks are surprisingly good for DLP. The iris on the new unit I am testing is behaving as it should; better blacks, picture, can’t really tell it’s there.

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post #242 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Dang I don’t have that one in 4K. Only 1080p. I’ll see if they are running any $6 specials on vudu
Sent you a pm Scott

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post #243 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Sent you a pm Scott


Holy smokes! Thank you so much! Wow that just made my day

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post #244 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:05 PM
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@scottyroo I know you've tested lag on the 3550, and obviously we'd like to know for the 5550 as well (presumably it's the same), but I'm wondering if you've tested it in the 1920 x 1080 @ 120 Hz mode these projectors support? Is that something you can even test with your device? (not sure, I don't know own one)

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post #245 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robl2 View Post
@scottyroo I know you've tested lag on the 3550, and obviously we'd like to know for the 5550 as well (presumably it's the same), but I'm wondering if you've tested it in the 1920 x 1080 @ 120 Hz mode these projectors support? Is that something you can even test with your device? (not sure, I don't know own one)


I can test that, yes.

Lag is more or less identical to HT3550. I was measuring between 58 and 62 ms consistently.

"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
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post #246 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Scotty! Can't wait



Do you happen to have The Dark Knight in 4K? If so, would love to see chapter 2 (6 minutes in) where there's a helicopter shot at night over the city. If you could have that scene shown on all 3 projectors at the same time that would be amazing.



It's one of the scenes I was very disappointed with on the JVC LX-UH1 compared to my existing Panasonic PT-AE8000. It would be interesting to see how these 3 projectors render that one. Obviously the Epson will win that one, but it would be really nice to see how the HT5550 compares to it.


Is this the scene?


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post #247 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Is this the scene?
Yes it is. Here was one I took from the JVC LX-UH1 and my Panasonic PT-AE8000U. Wanna guess which is which?
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post #248 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Is this the scene?

Is the camera making the black levels look worse?
Seems very grey
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post #249 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the camera making the black levels look worse?

Seems very grey


Probably. This picture is of the Epson 5050UB

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post #250 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Probably. This picture is of the Epson 5050UB
Ah okay, is the from yours or from the other thread?
Love to see 5050UB vs HT5550 in this scene too.

Trying to move away from my Pana AE8000
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post #251 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah okay, is the from yours or from the other thread?

Love to see 5050UB vs HT5550 in this scene too.



Trying to move away from my Pana AE8000


I just snapped the picture. Testing some calibrated settings....

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Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
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post #252 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by robl2 View Post
Yes it is. Here was one I took from the JVC LX-UH1 and my Panasonic PT-AE8000U. Wanna guess which is which?
I was going to say that the JVC is on the bottom because of how sharp it is, but then I realized I'm wearing my progressives haha! It messes up what I see unless I look through the lower part of my glasses. No, I'm not old, I'm just not as young as I once was. The image above has to be the JVC. There's no way DLP can have blacks like the one on the bottom.
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post #253 of 986 Old 04-04-2019, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by robl2 View Post
Yes it is. Here was one I took from the JVC LX-UH1 and my Panasonic PT-AE8000U. Wanna guess which is which?
I generally prefer the upper image as it has superior shadow detail, however the images don't appear to be from the same frames:

In the upper image if you go to the RON in Unitron and then move upward you can see what looks like a building lobby illuminated in blue, but in the lower frame that area is almost completely dark.
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post #254 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Probably. This picture is of the Epson 5050UB

It looks terrible! But if that is owed to the way the nighttime skyline scene was shot, then even a JVC D-ILA projector couldn't make it look any better.


I for one would really appreciate if only first class dark scene material would be selected for the imminent "screenshot war".


P.S.
Not sure if it has been posted, yet, but here is an eyewitness report from Down Under concerning the launch of BenQ's latest models in Australia: https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/fi...uhd-projectors


Quote: If either projector has an Achilles heel, it would have to be their black levels. While stepping up to the more expensive W5700 did demonstrate visibly better black levels, neither is going to producing inky blacks.

This echoes the impressions of the French eyewitness at ISE Amsterdam (W5700 reproduces better black levels than the W2700) and keeps the W5700 in my personal pole position.

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post #255 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 06:44 AM
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Calibration review for W5700 (HT5550)

W5700 (HT5550) arrived last night, I couldn't wait to try all of its features to see how it performs, No more guessing games, no more rumors. Since I am the first time BenQ projector user, sorry I can't answer any question regard to HT2550 nor TK800's comparison.

Environment conditions

Dedicated room, but wall not anti-reflection treated.
Screen: 135'' fixed 1.0 gain screen
Seat: 10 feet away from the screen, 8 feet before the projector
Projector placement: 5 feet high off the ground
Test pattern: AVCHD
Test software: HCFR
Test color meter: X rite i1pro2

For almost 6 hours of testing with my untrained bare eyes and my previous calibration experiences in HD/HDR projectors, I would like to share my OPEN-BOX thoughts about this new generation of the world-expected, first P3 mid-range projector. I would say that BenQ did an outstanding job hitting it's market. Due to limitations of its production cost, there would definitely be some pros and cons. But to be honestly, if one wants to compare it with the past generation glory hi-end 1080p projectors, like Sim2 Mico or CX3 that's priced 10 times higher, HT5550 is only much more affordable, it's sharpness exceeded them all. If you are to purchase a 4K HDR projector under 3000USD, HT5550 would be your best choice.

Build Quality/ Placement

At a glance, build quality is fantastic. Lite but durable. Do some minor reinforcement on ceiling should be easy for installation. Surrounding heat vents make the chest cool down more effectively. Personally, I consider this is one of greater pros. “ The cooler the chest, the longer its components would last, and also the greater operation stability”. In addition, I am not aware of any light leakage though it has large area vents. The second pros is its 1.6 Zoom lens. I sit 10 feet from my 135'' fixed gain 1.0 screen, the projector is around 8 feet behind me, and it sat on a 5feet tall shelf without blocking the sight of projection. This would be an example for those who don't want to hang it on the ceiling. Thanks to its wide range lens shifts as well. I believed HT DLP projector equips wide range lens shifts is expecting for long for most of HT enthusiasts. I really praise BenQ made this feature finally among DLP camp in this price range.

Talking about first impression of the picture quality, it is really a big difference compare to my Optoma HD25. HD25 was considered a legend among Rec 709, 0.65'' DC3 chip group during full hd pj era. The first sight difference between HT5550 is its picture clarity. Of course, I understand they are not at the same level, however, for me, this is a huge impression.






Sharpness

Someone doubts 4K DMD 0.47'' do not do well for the sharpness, I really can't tell from my seat comparing to my memories of watching UHD51/60/68 which are using DMD 0.66''. Even though true 4K chip in LCD camp is not competing it's sharpness. Seriously, if you really want me to talk about the difference, DMD 0.47'' creates the outline of images softer then DMD 0.66'' does. However, this result happens to if you take a magnifier close enough to the image. I doubt who will do so?



Contrast

As to the contrast, I guess this is everyone wants to know the best. Does BenQ really make a huge jump on the contrast level in bulb based DLP projector? I am afraid my answer is no. I have been seen lots UHD projector in 3000USD price range, unfortunately, non of DLP projectors can challenge LCD black level in this price range. I checked BenQ to confirm HT5550/H3550 still use TI DC3 chip, as my understanding of DC3 black level, HT5550 still can't go beyond this class.

Measurements of Cinema mode (Rec. 709)

Still, something feel comfort, dynamic iris indeed helps the dark scenes go deeper. This is obviously showed in my calibration result. I got a native contrast 600:1 in Cinema (rec.709) mode, when the DI is active, it goes to 3150:1. However, result showed it slightly effect the gamma that eyes barely notice. Scooty mentioned BenQ technicians told him the iris will be tuned complete shut off and add some DI level adjustments. In my case, mine still can see the light out of the projector when it is in 0% gray scale. Hope mine can be improved as soon as BenQ have further fixing. Besides, I still can notice DI activating initially, also some sudden super bright goes to very dark scenes. But this is not really annoying or notice during the movies.

Out of box measurements
Picture mode: Cinema (Rec.709)
Gamma 2.18
Contrast: 600:1
DI on: 3150:1
Brightness: 53nits





Measurements of D.Cinema mode (WCG/HDR)

During the test, WCG/HDR mode was my favorite part which I enjoyed the most and also consider the best value of HT5550. For some experiences of calibrating HDR projectors, HT5550 has an excellent tone mapping performance on HDR. It controls outstanding brightness output and the color accuracy. WCG made HDR tone mapping send metadata to the right gamut coordinate, pictures instantly shows popup on it's colorful senses, you won't hesitate a second to distinguish the Rec. 709 & P3 color gamut. How I judge for its HDR performance was experience quite numbers of HDR PJ, which sometimes shows too dark, over saturation or uneven light output, sometimes it made image wash out, even LCD camp still suffer these technical bottleneck. The other way which I am not able to test on HT5550 is to measure HDR Gamma to match S curve. HDR tone mapping is really a hard task of designing a good HDR PJ's at present. Once the corresponding of metadata do not decode to match the color gamut position, the image lose control. I took some pictures of it's excellence HDR images, Skin tones, color scales/details, dark senses details, it just looks astonishing.

Shot by HTC E9+











Out of box measurement
Picture in D. Cinema mode (WCG auto engaged)
Gamma 2.35
Contrast: 435:1
DI on contrast 1700:1
Brigness: 35nits




Rec 709 view


Ref. DCI-P3 view


HDR Brightness

I can not test HDR brightness further due to my test pattern is AVCHD which does not include HDR signal so that auto-lock HDR HT5550 couldn't perform this task. However, tracing my calibration result of JVC X990, measurement showed WCG of brightness is at 34.5 nits, then went to 52.3nits when HDR activated. According to WCG HT5550 test result, brightness measured similar to the result of JVC X990, I would like to deduce HT5550 HDR brightness would be around 50 nits similar to JVC X990. The other inference is that according to my Rec. 709 measurements of HT5550, it never perform beyond its own maximum brightness ability.

I believe some might question its lack of HDR brightness. This is also what I consider its weakness part. To get the best image quality for HDR, brightness has to be at least 70nits base on DV standard. Fellows can see my testing result of Rec. 709 at brightness 53 nits, 34 nits brightness when WCG filter on is considered reasonable to me. In this significant brightness drop seems to be the destiny of consumer PJ no matter on DLP or LCD camp. Scotty told the drop might just 10-20% according to his sight, now we have exact no. of 34% brightness loses. However, thanks to HDR, we might have brighter image to 50nits so Scotty might be on the right track. So I am guessing HT5550 or other HDR consumer PJs are still struggle the brightness issue in this generation.

Native color gamut w/o WCG filiter

One thing that I can't be sure is Scotty was told the native color gamut reach to 95% P3 without WCG filter on. Due to BenQ lock Rec.709 gamut in Cinema mode, and WCG Lock in D. Cinema mode , there's no other way to test native color gamut w/o WCG filter. It's a lost for me, but for common users, it is benefit to avoid mis-corresponding mode adjustment.

Calibration for my own environment

Despite 4 default picture modes: Bright/ Vivid TV/ Cinema (Rec.709)/ D. Cinema mode, BenQ offer 1set user setting. It can be loaded any default mode and adjust to your own preference. I used D. Cinema mode as base to calibrate it to satisfy my 135'' fixed 1.0 gain screen and suit my personal environment condition. I would like to share my post calibration as below.

Jim's post cal base on WCG/ D.Cinema mode in Economic
Gamma 2.23
Contrast: 2213:1 :1 ( DI off)
Brigness: 33nits


Jim's post cal base on WCG/D. Cinema mode in Normal
Gamma: 2.32
Contrast: 585: 1 (DI off)
Brightness: 50.5 nits




Ref. Rec. 709


I would say BenQ made their promises of color accuracy and DCI-P3 gamut on HT5550. Although my final calibration result differ to the result of out of box measurements, but for those who have calibration knowledge would understand these differences may happen in many conditions. After examining every detail of HT5550, I would like to announce my final judgement, BenQ did excellent/ perfect calibration for my HT5550. And I believe those who are waiting for this outstanding PJ will be equally treated as mine. You will get a prefect/ exclusive/ well calibrated HT5550. The attached paper is not just for a paper of bells & whistles, it is a guarantee of performance satisfaction, an honest B&Q promise, and an evidence of hard efforts for every BenQ engineer.

Thanks BenQ.

4/7 UPDATED Sharpness pattern/ Add. Native Ref. P3 Color Gamut/ Add Jims post Cal in Light mode: Normal

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Stereo preamp: Bremester 897+MBL 1511F DAC USB Power Amp: Proceed AMP5+ QSC DCA1824 PJ: Twin Optoma HD25/ BenQ HT5550, Screen 135” gain 1.0
**Measurements of BenQ HT5550 **

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post #256 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 06:50 AM
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Awesome review. Thanks for sharing Jim!

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post #257 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimchao View Post
W5700 (HT5550) arrived last night, I couldn't wait to try all of its features to see how it performs, No more guessing games, no more rumors. Since I am the first time BenQ projector user, sorry I can't answer any question regard to HT2550 nor TK800's comparison.



Environment conditions


Fantastic work!

"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
Sony X700 | Xbox One X | NVIDIA Shield TV

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post #258 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 07:17 AM
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Wow, that's like only 800-900 lumens without the filter. ViewSonic please save us. 🙏

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post #259 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post
I was going to say that the JVC is on the bottom because of how sharp it is, but then I realized I'm wearing my progressives haha! It messes up what I see unless I look through the lower part of my glasses. No, I'm not old, I'm just not as young as I once was. The image above has to be the JVC. There's no way DLP can have blacks like the one on the bottom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I generally prefer the upper image as it has superior shadow detail, however the images don't appear to be from the same frames:

In the upper image if you go to the RON in Unitron and then move upward you can see what looks like a building lobby illuminated in blue, but in the lower frame that area is almost completely dark.
Upper was the JVC, bottom was my Panasonic. This photo was taken about 8 months ago and I was doing a lot of quick testing (as the lamp could only have a few hours if I still wanted to be able to return it), so the details of this exact photo are hazy.

It was indeed not the exact same frame. While I did some testing by splitting the source, I also did some testing in 1080p side-by-side from a PS3 and Oppo, I also did some 1080p vs 4K testing with the same setup.

Anyway, in all cases I could not get the black level to match and this was about the closest I ever got it.

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post #260 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jimchao View Post
Still, something feel comfort, dynamic iris indeed helps the dark scenes go deeper. This is obviously showed in my calibration result. I got a native contrast 600:1 in Cinema (rec.709) mode, when the DI is active, it goes to 3150:1. However, result showed it slightly effect the gamma that eyes barely notice. Scooty mentioned BenQ technicians told him the iris will be tuned complete shut off and add some DI level adjustments. In my case, mine still can see the light out of the projector when it is in 0% gray scale. Hope mine can be improved as soon as it is fixed. Besides, I still can notice DI activating initially, also some sudden super bright goes to very dark scenes. But this is not really annoying or notice during the movies.
Thank you for your review! It sounds like you have a demo / pre-production model as well then?

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post #261 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 07:52 AM
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can take a close-up image of the screen, trying to focus the pixel (mirror)

I see this new dmd image softer in general than the previous one.


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post #262 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 08:25 AM
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Wow, that's like only 800-900 lumens without the filter. ViewSonic please save us. 🙏
I think with Filter. He calibrated on DCinema.
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post #263 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 08:56 AM
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Couple of Qs after finally reading through your assessment. Did you calibrate for 16fL or is that just a coincidence? Maybe I misunderstood but it seems you achieved the same nit measurements for the HT5550 as the X990? I’m confused by that.

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post #264 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimchao View Post
W5700 (HT5550) arrived last night, I couldn't wait to try all of its features to see how it performs, No more guessing games, no more rumors. Since I am the first time BenQ projector user, sorry I can't answer any question regard to HT2550 nor TK800's comparison.
I wonder if you did testing and/or can tell us about performance using Smarteco rather than the DI?

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post #265 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
@jimchao
Couple of Qs after finally reading through your assessment. Did you calibrate for 16fL or is that just a coincidence? Maybe I misunderstood but it seems you achieved the same nit measurements for the HT5550 as the X990? I’m confused by that.
I think it's a coincidence, JVC X990 has been running about 700hrs. My measurement of brightness for Cinema & D. Cinema mode is to check 100% gray scale and also double check 6 color brightness output. And my own setting is to calibrate RGB balance and then same as above procedures.

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Thank you for your review! It sounds like you have a demo / pre-production model as well then?
Still need to verify by BenQ. I wish they could fix the DI as promising.

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Stereo preamp: Bremester 897+MBL 1511F DAC USB Power Amp: Proceed AMP5+ QSC DCA1824 PJ: Twin Optoma HD25/ BenQ HT5550, Screen 135” gain 1.0
**Measurements of BenQ HT5550 **

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post #266 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 11:46 AM
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Wow, that's like only 800-900 lumens without the filter. ViewSonic please save us. 🙏
Hmmm, that seems a bit weak. Why can't there be a perfect projector (within a reasonable budget)? Grr.
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post #267 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 08:22 PM
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May I know will the PQ be affected if I zoom to the max?


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post #268 of 986 Old 04-05-2019, 08:42 PM
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May I know will the PQ be affected if I zoom to the max?


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In the screen area, PQ seems to be ok to me. not much difference.
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post #269 of 986 Old 04-06-2019, 12:56 PM
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I just cannot understand how 1080p chip can actually display full resolution fully since pixel size is still the same, so displaying it in parts will just make them overlapping, so is it even possible to see alternating white and black line with 1 pixel width 4K resolution patterns? I think it cannot be done.
I don't know how it works either but it does. I posted this in the HT3550 thread but the ht5550 has the same dlp chip. Somehow with the wobulation on the pixels do appear smaller indeed. I'm sure there are some patterns that work better than others though.



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post #270 of 986 Old 04-06-2019, 01:08 PM
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Thanks for the photos. I just did not quite get what is the difference between the mode in these photos. Was it a change between 1080p and 4K "wobulation mode"?
I can see pixels clearly on lower, while upper one has readable smaller text above Viggo's name (which appear a bit blurry looking) but pixel structure not appear as clearly.
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