BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 125 Old 03-13-2019, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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It’s here!

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post #32 of 125 Old 03-13-2019, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Mounted next to the HT3550






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post #33 of 125 Old 03-13-2019, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hour one impressions. Focus is REALLY good on the TK800M. REALLY EASY to get focus dialed in. Focus uniformity is arguably better than any of the 4x 4K BenQ DLPs I’ve seen. Gray border is gone (figuratively... still small pond of micro mirrors typical of all DLPs).

Nothing earth shattering yet but gray border and lens upgrade are making their mark so far.
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post #34 of 125 Old 03-14-2019, 07:37 AM
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Lets see what you think of this vs 3550
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post #35 of 125 Old 03-14-2019, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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TK800M vs HT3550 vs TK800

Quote:
Originally Posted by xp0z3d View Post
Lets see what you think of this vs 3550
First off - press release. Price is $1,299.

Last night I spent approx 3-4 hours with the TK800M. I played Halo and Forza Horizon 4 on my Xbox One X in glorious 4K HDR. I watched 45 minutes of Avatar in 3D. I watched 30-45 minutes of Thor: Ragnarok and Avengers: Infinity War.

Here are my first impressions of the TK800M compared to the HT3550 and the TK800. Full disclosure: this is a bit of apples to oranges comparison since the TK800M doesn't belong to the same family of projectors as the HT3550. However, since people will undoubtedly be comparing these two in their buying decision, I'll oblige and humor the comparisons...

Full review to come later on.

What's new vs the TK800?

The TK800M is using the same chassis as the TK800. The main differences is a new lens for better sharpness and the new TI DMD chip which eliminates the gray border.

BenQ's post-launch firmware support of the TK800 was very good so the TK800M also benefits from what BenQ learned from the TK800 in that regard. Several improvements I noticed on the TK800M include better HDR tone mapping algorithms, better 3D support, and auto selecting HDR mode when detecting HDR content were all new to me compared to the TK800 unit I had in my theater for 8 months.

Focus and Sharpness

Focus was a mixed bag for me with the TK800. My pre-production unit had obvious focus uniformity issues, however those were fixed in the production unit I tested shortly thereafter.

Dialing in the focus on the TK800M was a pleasure last night. This is the sharpest and most uniformly focused 4K projector I've seen yet from BenQ. With my nose to the screen I could make out individual pixels in moving images.

The HT3550 I am testing is a pre-production unit and I am told the focus uniformity on that will improve in production. But as of today, the BenQ 4K focus and sharpness crown goes to this unit, the TK800M, that I am testing right now.

Winner: TK800M
Runner Up: HT3550

HDR

Tone mapping is marginally improved on the TK800M compared to the TK800. Soooo... I really liked the TK800. I like it because of what the extra brightness allowed it to do with my larger 160" screen. I enjoyed HDR on the TK800 more than the HT2550 simply because of the extra oomph the TK800 provided with its brightness. After I turned on HDR content I was reminded just how damn spoiled I have been with the HT3550's HDR image. This was interesting for me to experience because over the last week I have gotten 'content' with the HT3550. The HT3550's 'HDR-Pro' implementation has better brightness, contrast, and tone mapping compared to its baby brother's the TK800 and TK800M. However, the TK800M does hold its own in HDR. It's actually pretty good, especially in gaming. Each HDR game on the Xbox One X has its own HDR image adjustments within the game menu. I played both Forza Horizon 4 and Halo: MCC on both the HT3550 and TK800M last night in 4K HDR. They were both beautiful to play on but with the extra brightness of the TK800M, the slightly sharper image (lots of text in gaming), and the slightly lower input lag... I prefered the TK800M for GAMING only.

Overall HDR Winner: HT3550... by a landslide
BUT... Gaming HDR Winner: TK800M... by a hair.
A respectful showing, but 3rd in both: TK800

Contrast/Blacks

This one's kind of interesting. The dynamic iris in the HT3550 gives it a HUGE advantage in dark scene contrast and black levels, ESPECIALLY in HDR. The TK800M got rid of the gray border and to my eye, contrast has improved, but it still has a high grey point in dark or completely black screens. For example, the HT3550's letterboxes in a dark HDR scene like the first one with Thor in the cave actually look very close to black. The TK800M's are gray, along with a high gray point in other parts of the image. HOWEVER.... in regular bright scenes, the TK800M closes the gap considerably. The extra brightness is put to very good use and concerns of contrast don't exist in these types of scenes. Which brings me to my point... if you don't have a completely darkened viewing room, you will not be able to fully appreciate the very good contrast and black levels of the HT3550. That is why the TK800M is marketed as a "Living Room Entertainment" projector... because it does better than its siblings at cutting through ambient light with its high lumen output.

Overall Contrast/Blacks Winner: HT3550... especially in HDR, dark scenes, and dark rooms
BUT... Living Rooms and High Ambient Light Contrast/Blacks Winner: ... It depends... but probably the TK800M

Brightness

The TK800M shares the same brightness as the TK800. When I fired up the TK800M, I was reminded why I had the TK800 up as my primary driver for 8 months. I thought to myself "Oh wow. I've missed this." The HT3550's brightness is very good. And there is a reason why a lot of $10k projectors only have 1500 lumens of brightness. More brightness does not mean a better image or better image quality. The image quality of the HT3550 is better in every appreciable way in a controlled environment, but the TK800M has a case to be considered for ambient light environments or large screens. It follows up and continues what the TK800 did very well, especially in Football Mode; a very very good BRIGHT image that doesn't compromise much on color accuracy.

With that said, the HDR brightness of the HT3550 walks all over the TK800M for film content. In-game adjustments, as previously mentioned, brings these levels more or less the same on 4K HDR gaming.

Overall Brightness Winner: TK800M
HDR Film Brightness Winner: HT3550
HDR Gaming Brightness Winner: Tie

Color

The TK800M is no skimp with color, especially considering the brightness. That white slice in the color wheel is not creating a washed out image and I've always been impressed with the balance that BenQ engineers struck with brightness and color on the TK800. The TK800M's Rec709 coverage increases from 92% on the TK800 to 96% on the TK800M. Considering the very color accurate HT2550 was 96% but 1000 lumens less, this seems like the TK800M is eating its cake and having it too.

But the HT3550's color is the DLP king right now. 100% Rec 709 and 95% DCI-P3. The HDR color and auto tone mapping just blow most everything else out of the water. Enough said.

Color Winner: HT3550

Placement

The TK800M's zoom shrunk from 1.2x on the TK800 to 1.1x, further limiting what was already worse than average placement flexibility on the TK800. I was able to mount the TK800M in the same spot as the TK800 with no issue. If you have the space for it and can get the TK800M mounted where it needs to be, then no harm no foul. The tradeoff with the decreased zoom is the new lens with much better focus and sharpness. I like the tradeoff and will take it all day. I just hoped to see the same improvement without sacrificing anything on a projector that is launching 1 year after the original.

The HT3550 has a 1.3x zoom and 10% vertical lens shift, so for most people the HT3550 is the better option for placement flexibility with the shorter throw, bigger zoom, and lens shift. However, this is slightly subjective for people with big theaters like mine where we want the projector mounted slightly behind our heads like the TK800/M can do. So I'm going to say in 9 cases out of 10, people will prefer the HT3550 but some may be ok with the TK800M's placement setup.

Placement Winner: HT3550

Gaming

I've mentioned this a few times already. The HT3550 and TK800M trade blows here, but overall the TK800M should prove the better gaming projector for most IF, and that's a big IF, the gamer has the space requirements for the longer throw of the TK800M. Most gaming oriented projectors are shorter throw meant to place on a coffee table and grab and play at a LAN in a pinch. The TK800M requires almost 11 feet of lens to screen room for just a 100" image. If that works for you, then the extra brightness and input lag improvement (albeit small) will benefit most gamers. However, the HT3550 is no slouch for casual gaming and the HDR-Pro is very good for an "Image Quality" focused setup. The input lag of the HT3550 will range between 50-63ms (per BenQ and Sage11x), the TK800M's will be the same as the TK800; 40-44ms. For hardcore games, remember image quality isn't everything. There is a reason why CS players still play on 1999 640x480 monitors and Smash tournaments are played on CRT televisions. Zero lag.

Gaming Winner: TK800M with the caveat of placement flexibility

-----

Well this ended up being longer than I intended and I still plan on doing a full standalone review of the TK800M. I will be putting this TK800M through its paces over the next month or so. I already know I'm going to miss the HT3550's HDR performance while I test. However, I welcome back the brightness of the TK series in my theater and being able to keep my rear theater lights on without much performance drop.

In conclusion, my first impression of this TK800M projector is a good one. It is improved in almost every way compared to the TK800 with the exception fo a smaller zoom. My opinion is that for dark theater aficionados who care about overall image quality, the HT3550 has more than the $200 worth of value in it than the $200 price difference between the TK800M and HT3550. However, if you have a huge screen (160"+), don't have the extra $200, have the placement requirements, watch in ambient light, or care about the 15-20ms improvement in input lag... then you should add this projector to your list of consideration.

When push comes to shove, as much I enjoy the brightness, sharpness, and slightly better lag of the TK800Ms so far, the HT3550 is the overall winner by a good margin owing to its phenomenal HDR image, black levels, and feature-set. However, the TK800M trades blows when it comes to input lag and a better high brightness image.

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post #36 of 125 Old 03-14-2019, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Placement

The TK800M's zoom shrunk from 1.2x on the TK800 to 1.1x, further limiting what was already worse than average placement flexibility on the TK800. I was able to mount the TK800M in the same spot as the TK800 with no issue. If you have the space for it and can get the TK800M mounted where it needs to be, then no harm no foul. The tradeoff with the decreased zoom is the new lens with much better focus and sharpness. I like the tradeoff and will take it all day. I just hoped to see the same improvement without sacrificing anything on a projector that is launching 1 year after the original.
Great first impressions.
With shrunk zoom, can the TK800M do a 110" diagonal image from a distance or 13.6 ft ?
In your opinion is it worth upgrading to TK800M from TK800 ?
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post #37 of 125 Old 03-14-2019, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Lord View Post
Great first impressions.
With shrunk zoom, can the TK800M do a 110" diagonal image from a distance or 13.6 ft ?
In your opinion is it worth upgrading to TK800M from TK800 ?
Not quite. The smallest image that could be produced at 13'6" is 112". For a 110" screen, your mounting distance range would be 12' to 13'2".

Unless it is a straight across trade or the gray border is really bugging you to the tune of the money you would eat in selling then buying the TK800M, no. Not worth upgrading. If you could sell the TK800 for $1,200 and get the TK800M for $1,299.... maybe? Is it worth $100 to you though?

If bright image is your jam, wait for the bright HT3550 variant. That should be worth the upgrade.
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post #38 of 125 Old 03-16-2019, 07:52 PM
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If I have a bright living room and I do not plan to change it and watch movies mainly in the evenings and at night, but sometimes the children in the day will want to watch some story with the closed blinds TK800M will be the right model? How far away should the screen to projector be at 120 "screen size?

P.S.Sorry for my English. I never studied it at school :/
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post #39 of 125 Old 03-17-2019, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrogDR View Post
If I have a bright living room and I do not plan to change it and watch movies mainly in the evenings and at night, but sometimes the children in the day will want to watch some story with the closed blinds TK800M will be the right model? How far away should the screen to projector be at 120 "screen size?
You should be fine as long as you can have the light controlled anywhere from 60% and above during the day. I am currently doing the same in my setup and the PJ has replaced the TV in our living room.
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post #40 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 02:39 AM
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When we talk about light controlled rooms..Do we say black painted walls and ceailing/ batcave?

I have a "normal" living room with white painted ceiling and light green wallpapers.

During the night it gets really dark. Is the TK800M still to bright for a 90inch screen?
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post #41 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 11:44 AM
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@proddan , I would say my living room is normal as in most cases, ceiling and walls painted in light cream and I had no issues projecting a 120" on to the cream wall. I am sure TK800M would have no issues projecting a 90" image.
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post #42 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 05:15 PM
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@Star Lord have a living room with light gray walls and a white ceiling. But when there are children who want to watch some animated movie in the day, I will close dark brown blinds. And no light inside will be turned on. I hope it is enough .... I, like I wrote before time to watch movies, I usually have at night, sometimes afternoon. I hope it will not be a problem for this model . Now it remains waiting until there is a promotion for example 999 $ would be great;>
i`v i good calculate for 120` screen distance will be 398mm (157inch) yes ??? I think about this screen. Enybody use screen from "esmart" ??
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00...Z92CUIYT&psc=1

P.S.Sorry for my English. I never studied it at school :/
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post #43 of 125 Old 03-18-2019, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proddan View Post
When we talk about light controlled rooms..Do we say black painted walls and ceailing/ batcave?



I have a "normal" living room with white painted ceiling and light green wallpapers.



During the night it gets really dark. Is the TK800M still to bright for a 90inch screen?


I have a 100” screen and this is what my room looks like:

Don’t mind the gear I was filming some stuff.

In any case, the TK800 I actually found was too bright for me and how I watch. Most people will tell you that’s a good problem to have but the TK is so bright I actually had to turn on some lights or crack a window to make it more comfortable. The TK800 is for fighting ambient light and pushing monster screens. If you watch your projector in a more ‘traditional’ way (in the dark) then you don’t need that many lumens.

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post #44 of 125 Old 03-19-2019, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I have a 100” screen and this is what my room looks like:

Don’t mind the gear I was filming some stuff.

In any case, the TK800 I actually found was too bright for me and how I watch. Most people will tell you that’s a good problem to have but the TK is so bright I actually had to turn on some lights or crack a window to make it more comfortable. The TK800 is for fighting ambient light and pushing monster screens. If you watch your projector in a more ‘traditional’ way (in the dark) then you don’t need that many lumens.
Couldn’t you just pit it in cinema mode and disable Brilliant Color to get it dark?
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post #45 of 125 Old 03-19-2019, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy G Biv View Post
Couldn’t you just pit it in cinema mode and disable Brilliant Color to get it dark?


Cinema is barely any darker than the other modes. Plus, on the TK800 (NOT the TK800M we’re discussing here) disabling brilliant color did reduce lumens by a massive amount but I wasn’t a big fan of the picture with BC off.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrogDR View Post
@Star Lord have a living room with light gray walls and a white ceiling. But when there are children who want to watch some animated movie in the day, I will close dark brown blinds. And no light inside will be turned on. I hope it is enough .... I, like I wrote before time to watch movies, I usually have at night, sometimes afternoon. I hope it will not be a problem for this model . Now it remains waiting until there is a promotion for example 999 $ would be great;>
i`v i good calculate for 120` screen distance will be 398mm (157inch) yes ??? I think about this screen. Enybody use screen from "esmart" ??
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00...Z92CUIYT&psc=1
Both the TK800 or TK800M would work fine for your watching needs. Price of TK800 might go down (in the region of $999) once TK800M is released in the market.
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Does anyone happen to know if the TK800M will feature user upgradeable firmware?
Also does anyone happen to know if that 'feature' could then or will then be made available for the TK800?
I remember on one of the Optoma threads they'd put the upgrades on their website and since they all use the same TI tech I'm reasonably sure it's technically possible, so it comes down to BenQ's intentions. Maybe :-)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russellhk View Post
Does anyone happen to know if the TK800M will feature user upgradeable firmware?

Also does anyone happen to know if that 'feature' could then or will then be made available for the TK800?

I remember on one of the Optoma threads they'd put the upgrades on their website and since they all use the same TI tech I'm reasonably sure it's technically possible, so it comes down to BenQ's intentions. Maybe :-)


No it is not user upgradable. It is because the firmware is tied to the TI chip and that needs to be updated by BenQ. The bright variant to the HT3550 will be user upgradable


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I sent an email to the BENQ folks about user updatable TK800M.

Their reply was that we would be able to use USB to update the firmware.


Did not ask them about the TK800 though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flight planner View Post
I sent an email to the BENQ folks about user updatable TK800M.

Their reply was that we would be able to use USB to update the firmware.


Did not ask them about the TK800 though.
Oh right, that's interesting, thanks for the info. I'll be sending my TK800 back this week for a firmware update, I'll see what they advise.
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post #51 of 125 Old 03-24-2019, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flight planner View Post
I sent an email to the BENQ folks about user updatable TK800M.

Their reply was that we would be able to use USB to update the firmware.


Did not ask them about the TK800 though.
Interesting. I was told otherwise by a BenQ product manager but I'll hit him up again to confirm.

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Subject:
Re: firmware updates
From:
"BenQ Support" <[email protected]>
Date:
3/18/2019, 6:28 AM
To:


__________________________________
Type your response to BenQ Support ABOVE THIS LINE to reply. Please wait for a response before sending additional emails as this will delay our reply. Thanks!
Jim Layton
Subject: firmware updates
MAR 18, 2019 Â |Â 08:28AM CDT
Sean replied:

Hey Jim, correct, the new M series will have OTA updates for firmware.

Thanks!
Sean.
MAR 17, 2019 Â |Â 09:50AM CDT
Original message
Jim wrote:

I currently have an Epson 5030 projector and am thinking of upgrading to a 4K projector possibly your TK800M.
Have you enabled the firmware updates to be done by the user via USB drive yet?
Sending a projector back for those kind of updates seems too cumbersome.
Thanks much.
Jim
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Scottyroo:


The above is what I got from that inquiry.
Be interested if you hear again something else.
Let us know.
That's an important feature.


Jim
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post #53 of 125 Old 03-24-2019, 02:49 PM
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Hi scottyroo,

Thanks for the first impressions!

Did you try gaming @1080p 120hz? HDR?
Would you expect input lag to be halved?

Really hoping to see someone report input lag in this mode for both HT3550 and this model.

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post #54 of 125 Old 03-25-2019, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirqueit View Post
Hi scottyroo,



Thanks for the first impressions!



Did you try gaming @1080p 120hz? HDR?

Would you expect input lag to be halved?



Really hoping to see someone report input lag in this mode for both HT3550 and this model.



cirqueit


The guys of this are mostly the TK800 so I am guessing it will be around the 44ms of that model.

HT3550 has been tested at 63ms on a 1080p Leo Bodnar device.

I haven’t tried gaming at 120hz on the TK800M yet.

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Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
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post #55 of 125 Old 03-25-2019, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
The guys of this are mostly the TK800 so I am guessing it will be around the 44ms of that model.

HT3550 has been tested at 63ms on a 1080p Leo Bodnar device.

I haven’t tried gaming at 120hz on the TK800M yet.
Thanks! Please update if you do.

A recent blurbusters article seemed to suggest that for DLP projectors, the input lag when 1080p @ 120hz should be half of the input lag when 1080p @ 60hz, which would be great for gaming (22ms vs 44ms?)
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post #56 of 125 Old 03-27-2019, 06:39 PM
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Here you have USER MANUAL for TK800M. We can read some interesting things...
USER MANUAL TK800M

P.S.Sorry for my English. I never studied it at school :/
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post #57 of 125 Old 03-28-2019, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector

I am getting readings of 42ms input lag on TK800M. The previous .47” DLP record holder was the Viewsonic 747 and TK800 ties at 43-44ms


"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
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post #58 of 125 Old 03-30-2019, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector

This is a great 4K gaming projector. Had 8 guys over last night for some 4v4 halo and each setup had a tk800m. We had a bad experience from playing on a Samsung a few weeks ago that had 106ms lag. It was comical. Playing on this with 42ms was great. I heard from my friend who is pretty discerning at least 4 times “man I love this projector”. It ticks a lot of boxes for sure.

I was thinking that the TK800 and TK800m has an interesting lens design with the lens very recessed. The blue material is also very reflective so I was sure that if I put the projector close to the screen I could disagnose if I was taking a contrast L or not with the light reflections. I was right.

A FANTASTIC mod I would recommend is to either get black velour screen border tape or telescope velvet flocking tape and line the inner ring with it. The blue scotch tape was just a proof of concept but it made a big difference in my test in stray light.






"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
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post #59 of 125 Old 04-01-2019, 12:37 PM
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That's a very interesting mod!
I've been trying to get my head around whether it would still make a difference from a normal projection distance. Surely the outer ring is just producing some 'glare' which wouldn't even make a difference from a few meters away? All of the light is being focused on the screen from the lens at that distance? Maybe the pictures exaggerate this because the normalised black level is being affected by the stray light from the reflections from the surround? You wouldn't expect a company as experienced as BenQ to make sure a faux pas? If any of that makes sense!!
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post #60 of 125 Old 04-01-2019, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russellhk View Post
That's a very interesting mod!

I've been trying to get my head around whether it would still make a difference from a normal projection distance. Surely the outer ring is just producing some 'glare' which wouldn't even make a difference from a few meters away? All of the light is being focused on the screen from the lens at that distance? Maybe the pictures exaggerate this because the normalised black level is being affected by the stray light from the reflections from the surround? You wouldn't expect a company as experienced as BenQ to make sure a faux pas? If any of that makes sense!!


Stray light is stray light. And these .47” DLPs can get all the contrary help they can get.

It’s not that big of deal and most people won’t notice since it is dispersed over such a large area.

"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
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