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BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector

48K views 174 replies 51 participants last post by  gentlemachine888 
#1 · (Edited)
ETA is TBD but the product landing page for the TK800M launched this week. This is more of a hardware revision to the TK800 than a brand new product launch. The TK800M will be a refinement of the TK800 and improve on a few key areas, namely the lens assembly and DMD chip.



Spec-wise, everything looks to be the same including the same RGBW color wheel. There are a few exceptions.



- There is curiously a new 'LampSave' mode which claims 15,000 bulb life instead of the 10,000 offered by the TK800's EcoSmart.

- Rec 709 coverage is now claimed at 96% instead of 92%. This is interesting because the 'color accurate' brother of the TK800, the HT2550, also claimed 96%. It would seem the TK800M is having it's cake and eating it too with 3,000 claimed lumens AND 96% Rec709 coverage.

- Zoom decreases from 1.2x to 1.1. This affects the throw range which is slightly changed from 1.47-1.76 to 1.50-165.



The two hardware changes that I know of are 1) improved lens and optical quality and 2) new 'no gray border' DLP DMD from TI. These two changes should yield better contrast and color from the TK800.



Unlike the TK800 getting a hardware update with the TK800M, the HT2550 will be discontinued here in the US. However, the HT2550/W1700 will be getting a similar TK800M treatment with the new lens/DMD in international markets.



That means BenQ's affordable sub-$2k line up so far this year consists of:

- The HT3550 (released later this month at $1,499. My review here.)

- The TK800M (release date and price TBD, although expected to come in a fair amount below the HT3550 in price)

- Not yet announced 'bright' variant of the HT3550 much like the TK800 was to HT2550.



 
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#8 ·
And Benq w1700M is on the page as well...



https://www.benq.com/en/projector/cinehome-home-cinema/w1700m.html



Home Cinema Projector with 4K UHD,HDR,Rec.709 | W1700M

True 4K UHD 8.3M Pixel resolution



Hyper-Realistic Video Quality with projector-optimized HDR10 / HLG



100% Rec.709 with optimized RGBRGB color wheel


That model won’t make it to the states. This was previously called the W1720 in my other post.
@scottyroo I would edit your post to remove “successor” as I think this is what is confusing everyone.

TK800M— entry level bright.
W1700M (update to W1700/HT2550)— entry level theater.

W2700/HT3550– mid level theater.
Un-named W2700/HT3550 sibling— mid level bright.

Hopefully that clears things up.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
So the website says RGBRGB and your first post states RGBW. I'm not sure which it really is. I would expect it to have a white segment like the TK800.

I'm wondering if it also has frame interpolation like the HT3550.

Also it looks like the throw is even longer than the original TK800. IF that's true, it's a deal breaker for me and I will pull the trigger on the ht3550.
 
#10 ·
With the HT3550 at $1499, I cant see the TK800M being much if any above $1299. In fact I'd be a little surprised if it was over $1199, at $1299 you pretty much have to jump up to a HT3550 or the bright variant of that with all the added features, most specifically dynamic iris.

Would be killer if they hit a $999 price point right away though.
 
#13 ·
I measured 63ms on the HT3550 and 46ms on the TK800 using a Bodnar lag tester. So around 1 frame difference. I should note that this was the same measurement I got with the HT2550.

I expect the TK800M to score the same.
 
#12 ·
Colorlightoutput.com shows the color brightness of the TK800 as 550 lumens and white brightness as 3000 lumens. I know this site is biased away from DLP and their numbers right or wrong are based around the assumption of the color brightness being the summation of the RGB segments light passing ability and they disregard W as being able to aid in color production. They also subtract any benefits of non RGB colors and the TK800 and TH800M have none. BenQ lists the two projectors as RGBW but the color wheel shown on the CLO site shows it as RWGBWG and a six segment color wheel with 90 degrees of the wheel given over to W.

My first projector was a true RGBW with 90 degrees W. and it was a real light cannon of a business projector that in it’s movie mode just turned the W off.

I don’t really understand the W filter is for or really why it has to take up 25% of the color wheel. There is a limited good effect of a W filter even for bright sports the intended usage. Anyone wanting to use this for HT and trying to stick to a full Rec.709 pallet should figure on 600 lumens I think.

If I’m wrong someone maybe can explain it better. In the old days (a few years ago) I was always advised W was not a desired ingredient in color production.

Here is a picture of the 800’s color wheel.
 

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#14 · (Edited)
Colorlightoutput.com shows the color brightness of the TK800 as 550 lumens and white brightness as 3000 lumens. I know this site is biased away from DLP and their numbers right or wrong are based around the assumption of the color brightness being the summation of the RGB segments light passing ability and they disregard W as being able to aid in color production. They also subtract any benefits of non RGB colors and the TK800 and TH800M have none. BenQ lists the two projectors as RGBW but the color wheel shown on the CLO site shows it as RWGBWG and a six segment color wheel with 90 degrees of the wheel given over to W.



My first projector was a true RGBW with 90 degrees W. and it was a real light cannon of a business projector that in it’s movie mode just turned the W off.



I don’t really understand the W filter is for or really why it has to take up 25% of the color wheel. There is a limited good effect of a W filter even for bright sports the intended usage. Anyone wanting to use this for HT and trying to stick to a full Rec.709 pallet should figure on 600 lumens I think.



If I’m wrong someone maybe can explain it better. In the old days (a few years ago) I was always advised W was not a desired ingredient in color production.



Here is a picture of the 800’s color wheel.


This has to do with frame creation. You’re never going to see an RGBCYW wheel on a DLP47 4K projector due to the rather fixed nature of the XPR system needing to operate at 240Hz (4 pixels or 4 positions per frame of 60Hz content). To put it simply: there isn’t enough time to add anything else.

Edit: I’m not certain of the source for that image above but it remains consistent with what I understand about the TK800’s wheel. Think of that wheel in the context of producing two pixels per rotation and you basically have an RWGBWGR. :)
 
#18 ·
I agree with both @scottyroo and @sage11x and even projector central in their review of the TK800 where they put the projector at 1792 lumens full and 1147 eco in all modes except brightest. I don’t doubt with a lot of ambient in the room and using the brilliant color mode that adds in the white produces a nice bright picture. Projector Central puts the dimming of not using brilliant color as reducing the lumen output by 55% and eco another 36%. If you conceder turning brilliant color off that put you right around what CLO rates it as having 550 lumens color brightness. This is also going to be the point they then measure the color gamut as 94%-96% Rec.709.

This is a sports projector more than it is a big screen theater projector in those regards. There is a fine line between business, sports projectors IMO. For years I have been talking about crossover projectors and these projectors are basically that.

They always lump the specs together like you get it all at the same time and I don’t think that’s the case.
:)
 
#19 ·
I agree with both @scottyroo and @sage11x and even projector central in their review of the TK800 where they put the projector at 1792 lumens full and 1147 eco in all modes except brightest. I don’t doubt with a lot of ambient in the room and using the brilliant color mode that adds in the white produces a nice bright picture. Projector Central puts the dimming of not using brilliant color as reducing the lumen output by 55% and eco another 36%. If you conceder turning brilliant color off that put you right around what CLO rates it as having 550 lumens color brightness. This is also going to be the point they then measure the color gamut as 94%-96% Rec.709.



This is a sports projector more than it is a big screen theater projector in those regards. There is a fine line between business, sports projectors IMO. For years I have been talking about crossover projectors and these projectors are basically that.



They always lump the specs together like you get it all at the same time and I don’t think that’s the case.

:)

Benq places both the TK800 and TK800M in their ‘home entertainment’ category of projectors as opposed to one of their cinema lines. In my review of the TK800 I likened it to a big flat panel TV. It’s prodigious lumen output and vivid picture makes it perfect as a TV replacement in rooms you wouldn’t normally think of to use a projector in. It does a very good job playing movies the way I’d guess 90% of the populace enjoys watching movies— i.e. not in a completely blacked out room and not being overly critical of color accuracy. That said, I can understand why many people, @scottyroo included, preferred the TK800 for cinema use as it had an appreciably higher contrast ratio and arguably better handling of HDR than it’s stable mate at the time. The impressive brightness is also a boon to those with massive screens. :)

BenQ seems to be serious about making sure this 800M is a noticeable improvement over the outgoing model and that should only serve to make it a better all-rounder than it’s predecessor. But, yeah, if you’re after critical dark room viewing there are better options.
 
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#21 ·
That should be an easy decision: what’s your room like? How do you like to watch? The HT3550 and TK800 are two distinctly different projectors and fall into two different categories: home theater and home entertainment.

The HT3550 is aimed at a traditional home theater projector role. While it has more than enough lumens to compete with the occasional low ambient light situation it is BEST used in a dark or light controlled room. It has more features, better contrast/blacks and highly accurate rec709/DCI-P3 color.

The TK800 is a ‘home entertainment’ projector. It belongs to a category of projectors that are designed to be used in less than ideal environments or for ‘lights on’ viewing. Think living rooms or media rooms or anywhere light might be an issue. It will have a picture that is bright, vivid, and easily viewable even with substantial amounts of ambient light— but it won’t have the type of features, blacks, color accuracy or refinement that a dedicated home theater model like the HT3550 will. This makes it a great ‘party’ projector for game day (or GoT day), Netflix binging, family movie nights or even the occasional backyard theater.
 
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#23 ·
Has anyone tested the TK800 or will they be able to test this TK800M on a moderate sized 110-120” low gain neutral gray screen. something .5 gain or even lower.

This projector by all accounts has a lot of white lumens and white counteracts black when it comes to projection and screen.
 
#27 ·
So since it shows on amazon "100” @ 10. 9-12. 0 feet"
I'm guessing this won't do 100" at -10ft?
I did preorder the ht3550, but since i'm down to trying out 3d this would probably be better but sadly my room is only 11ft.

& my only choices are the ht3550 & uhd50, but since the uhd50 was getting on my nerves with the buzz & the grey border around the screen.
I really didn't want to spend 1600$ on the ht3550 because of !TAX! ,
another reason the tk800m would of been perfect since its 1300$+another 100$ tax.
 
#28 ·
So since it shows on amazon "100” @ 10. 9-12. 0 feet"

I'm guessing this won't do 100" at -10ft?

I did preorder the ht3550, but since i'm down to trying out 3d this would probably be better but sadly my room is only 11ft.



& my only choices are the ht3550 & uhd50, but since the uhd50 was getting on my nerves with the buzz & the grey border around the screen.

I really didn't want to spend 1600$ on the ht3550 because of !TAX! ,

another reason the tk800m would of been perfect since its 1300$+another 100$ tax.


Have you considered using a small mirror on your back wall and shoot the TK800M at it to increase the image size?
 
#30 ·
With its color lumens so much less than its white lumens, would the same number of lumens for a projector with color brightness matching white brightness look much brighter and/or better saturated?

I’m hoping for something like a 4k equivalent of the Epson 3100 within 1-2 years for $1,000.
 
#32 ·
Mounted next to the HT3550






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#33 ·
Hour one impressions. Focus is REALLY good on the TK800M. REALLY EASY to get focus dialed in. Focus uniformity is arguably better than any of the 4x 4K BenQ DLPs I’ve seen. Gray border is gone (figuratively... still small pond of micro mirrors typical of all DLPs).

Nothing earth shattering yet but gray border and lens upgrade are making their mark so far.
 
#35 ·
TK800M vs HT3550 vs TK800



First off - press release. Price is $1,299.

Last night I spent approx 3-4 hours with the TK800M. I played Halo and Forza Horizon 4 on my Xbox One X in glorious 4K HDR. I watched 45 minutes of Avatar in 3D. I watched 30-45 minutes of Thor: Ragnarok and Avengers: Infinity War.

Here are my first impressions of the TK800M compared to the HT3550 and the TK800. Full disclosure: this is a bit of apples to oranges comparison since the TK800M doesn't belong to the same family of projectors as the HT3550. However, since people will undoubtedly be comparing these two in their buying decision, I'll oblige and humor the comparisons... :)

Full review to come later on.

What's new vs the TK800?

The TK800M is using the same chassis as the TK800. The main differences is a new lens for better sharpness and the new TI DMD chip which eliminates the gray border.

BenQ's post-launch firmware support of the TK800 was very good so the TK800M also benefits from what BenQ learned from the TK800 in that regard. Several improvements I noticed on the TK800M include better HDR tone mapping algorithms, better 3D support, and auto selecting HDR mode when detecting HDR content were all new to me compared to the TK800 unit I had in my theater for 8 months.

Focus and Sharpness

Focus was a mixed bag for me with the TK800. My pre-production unit had obvious focus uniformity issues, however those were fixed in the production unit I tested shortly thereafter.

Dialing in the focus on the TK800M was a pleasure last night. This is the sharpest and most uniformly focused 4K projector I've seen yet from BenQ. With my nose to the screen I could make out individual pixels in moving images.

The HT3550 I am testing is a pre-production unit and I am told the focus uniformity on that will improve in production. But as of today, the BenQ 4K focus and sharpness crown goes to this unit, the TK800M, that I am testing right now.

Winner: TK800M
Runner Up: HT3550

HDR

Tone mapping is marginally improved on the TK800M compared to the TK800. Soooo... I really liked the TK800. I like it because of what the extra brightness allowed it to do with my larger 160" screen. I enjoyed HDR on the TK800 more than the HT2550 simply because of the extra oomph the TK800 provided with its brightness. After I turned on HDR content I was reminded just how damn spoiled I have been with the HT3550's HDR image. This was interesting for me to experience because over the last week I have gotten 'content' with the HT3550. The HT3550's 'HDR-Pro' implementation has better brightness, contrast, and tone mapping compared to its baby brother's the TK800 and TK800M. However, the TK800M does hold its own in HDR. It's actually pretty good, especially in gaming. Each HDR game on the Xbox One X has its own HDR image adjustments within the game menu. I played both Forza Horizon 4 and Halo: MCC on both the HT3550 and TK800M last night in 4K HDR. They were both beautiful to play on but with the extra brightness of the TK800M, the slightly sharper image (lots of text in gaming), and the slightly lower input lag... I prefered the TK800M for GAMING only.

Overall HDR Winner: HT3550... by a landslide
BUT... Gaming HDR Winner: TK800M... by a hair.
A respectful showing, but 3rd in both: TK800

Contrast/Blacks

This one's kind of interesting. The dynamic iris in the HT3550 gives it a HUGE advantage in dark scene contrast and black levels, ESPECIALLY in HDR. The TK800M got rid of the gray border and to my eye, contrast has improved, but it still has a high grey point in dark or completely black screens. For example, the HT3550's letterboxes in a dark HDR scene like the first one with Thor in the cave actually look very close to black. The TK800M's are gray, along with a high gray point in other parts of the image. HOWEVER.... in regular bright scenes, the TK800M closes the gap considerably. The extra brightness is put to very good use and concerns of contrast don't exist in these types of scenes. Which brings me to my point... if you don't have a completely darkened viewing room, you will not be able to fully appreciate the very good contrast and black levels of the HT3550. That is why the TK800M is marketed as a "Living Room Entertainment" projector... because it does better than its siblings at cutting through ambient light with its high lumen output.

Overall Contrast/Blacks Winner: HT3550... especially in HDR, dark scenes, and dark rooms
BUT... Living Rooms and High Ambient Light Contrast/Blacks Winner: ... It depends... but probably the TK800M

Brightness

The TK800M shares the same brightness as the TK800. When I fired up the TK800M, I was reminded why I had the TK800 up as my primary driver for 8 months. I thought to myself "Oh wow. I've missed this." The HT3550's brightness is very good. And there is a reason why a lot of $10k projectors only have 1500 lumens of brightness. More brightness does not mean a better image or better image quality. The image quality of the HT3550 is better in every appreciable way in a controlled environment, but the TK800M has a case to be considered for ambient light environments or large screens. It follows up and continues what the TK800 did very well, especially in Football Mode; a very very good BRIGHT image that doesn't compromise much on color accuracy.

With that said, the HDR brightness of the HT3550 walks all over the TK800M for film content. In-game adjustments, as previously mentioned, brings these levels more or less the same on 4K HDR gaming.

Overall Brightness Winner: TK800M
HDR Film Brightness Winner: HT3550
HDR Gaming Brightness Winner: Tie

Color

The TK800M is no skimp with color, especially considering the brightness. That white slice in the color wheel is not creating a washed out image and I've always been impressed with the balance that BenQ engineers struck with brightness and color on the TK800. The TK800M's Rec709 coverage increases from 92% on the TK800 to 96% on the TK800M. Considering the very color accurate HT2550 was 96% but 1000 lumens less, this seems like the TK800M is eating its cake and having it too.

But the HT3550's color is the DLP king right now. 100% Rec 709 and 95% DCI-P3. The HDR color and auto tone mapping just blow most everything else out of the water. Enough said.

Color Winner: HT3550

Placement

The TK800M's zoom shrunk from 1.2x on the TK800 to 1.1x, further limiting what was already worse than average placement flexibility on the TK800. I was able to mount the TK800M in the same spot as the TK800 with no issue. If you have the space for it and can get the TK800M mounted where it needs to be, then no harm no foul. The tradeoff with the decreased zoom is the new lens with much better focus and sharpness. I like the tradeoff and will take it all day. I just hoped to see the same improvement without sacrificing anything on a projector that is launching 1 year after the original.

The HT3550 has a 1.3x zoom and 10% vertical lens shift, so for most people the HT3550 is the better option for placement flexibility with the shorter throw, bigger zoom, and lens shift. However, this is slightly subjective for people with big theaters like mine where we want the projector mounted slightly behind our heads like the TK800/M can do. So I'm going to say in 9 cases out of 10, people will prefer the HT3550 but some may be ok with the TK800M's placement setup.

Placement Winner: HT3550

Gaming

I've mentioned this a few times already. The HT3550 and TK800M trade blows here, but overall the TK800M should prove the better gaming projector for most IF, and that's a big IF, the gamer has the space requirements for the longer throw of the TK800M. Most gaming oriented projectors are shorter throw meant to place on a coffee table and grab and play at a LAN in a pinch. The TK800M requires almost 11 feet of lens to screen room for just a 100" image. If that works for you, then the extra brightness and input lag improvement (albeit small) will benefit most gamers. However, the HT3550 is no slouch for casual gaming and the HDR-Pro is very good for an "Image Quality" focused setup. The input lag of the HT3550 will range between 50-63ms (per BenQ and Sage11x), the TK800M's will be the same as the TK800; 40-44ms. For hardcore games, remember image quality isn't everything. There is a reason why CS players still play on 1999 640x480 monitors and Smash tournaments are played on CRT televisions. Zero lag.

Gaming Winner: TK800M with the caveat of placement flexibility

-----

Well this ended up being longer than I intended and I still plan on doing a full standalone review of the TK800M. I will be putting this TK800M through its paces over the next month or so. I already know I'm going to miss the HT3550's HDR performance while I test. However, I welcome back the brightness of the TK series in my theater and being able to keep my rear theater lights on without much performance drop.

In conclusion, my first impression of this TK800M projector is a good one. It is improved in almost every way compared to the TK800 with the exception fo a smaller zoom. My opinion is that for dark theater aficionados who care about overall image quality, the HT3550 has more than the $200 worth of value in it than the $200 price difference between the TK800M and HT3550. However, if you have a huge screen (160"+), don't have the extra $200, have the placement requirements, watch in ambient light, or care about the 15-20ms improvement in input lag... then you should add this projector to your list of consideration.

When push comes to shove, as much I enjoy the brightness, sharpness, and slightly better lag of the TK800Ms so far, the HT3550 is the overall winner by a good margin owing to its phenomenal HDR image, black levels, and feature-set. However, the TK800M trades blows when it comes to input lag and a better high brightness image.
 
#38 ·
If I have a bright living room and I do not plan to change it and watch movies mainly in the evenings and at night, but sometimes the children in the day will want to watch some story with the closed blinds TK800M will be the right model? How far away should the screen to projector be at 120 "screen size?
 
#40 ·
When we talk about light controlled rooms..Do we say black painted walls and ceailing/ batcave?

I have a "normal" living room with white painted ceiling and light green wallpapers.

During the night it gets really dark. Is the TK800M still to bright for a 90inch screen?
 
#43 ·
When we talk about light controlled rooms..Do we say black painted walls and ceailing/ batcave?



I have a "normal" living room with white painted ceiling and light green wallpapers.



During the night it gets really dark. Is the TK800M still to bright for a 90inch screen?


I have a 100” screen and this is what my room looks like:

Don’t mind the gear I was filming some stuff.

In any case, the TK800 I actually found was too bright for me and how I watch. :) Most people will tell you that’s a good problem to have but the TK is so bright I actually had to turn on some lights or crack a window to make it more comfortable. The TK800 is for fighting ambient light and pushing monster screens. If you watch your projector in a more ‘traditional’ way (in the dark) then you don’t need that many lumens.
 
#42 ·
@Star Lord have a living room with light gray walls and a white ceiling. But when there are children who want to watch some animated movie in the day, I will close dark brown blinds. And no light inside will be turned on. I hope it is enough .... I, like I wrote before time to watch movies, I usually have at night, sometimes afternoon. I hope it will not be a problem for this model . Now it remains waiting until there is a promotion for example 999 $ would be great;>
i`v i good calculate for 120` screen distance will be 398mm (157inch) yes ??? I think about this screen. Enybody use screen from "esmart" ??
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B006BXCLIY/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=A2DTQKZ92CUIYT&psc=1
 
#47 ·
Does anyone happen to know if the TK800M will feature user upgradeable firmware?
Also does anyone happen to know if that 'feature' could then or will then be made available for the TK800?
I remember on one of the Optoma threads they'd put the upgrades on their website and since they all use the same TI tech I'm reasonably sure it's technically possible, so it comes down to BenQ's intentions. Maybe :)
 
#48 ·
Does anyone happen to know if the TK800M will feature user upgradeable firmware?

Also does anyone happen to know if that 'feature' could then or will then be made available for the TK800?

I remember on one of the Optoma threads they'd put the upgrades on their website and since they all use the same TI tech I'm reasonably sure it's technically possible, so it comes down to BenQ's intentions. Maybe :)


No it is not user upgradable. It is because the firmware is tied to the TI chip and that needs to be updated by BenQ. The bright variant to the HT3550 will be user upgradable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#52 ·
Subject:
Re: firmware updates
From:
"BenQ Support"
Date:
3/18/2019, 6:28 AM
To:


__________________________________
Type your response to BenQ Support ABOVE THIS LINE to reply. Please wait for a response before sending additional emails as this will delay our reply. Thanks!
Jim Layton
Subject: firmware updates
MAR 18, 2019 Â |Â 08:28AM CDT
Sean replied:

Hey Jim, correct, the new M series will have OTA updates for firmware.

Thanks!
Sean.
MAR 17, 2019 Â |Â 09:50AM CDT
Original message
Jim wrote:

I currently have an Epson 5030 projector and am thinking of upgrading to a 4K projector possibly your TK800M.
Have you enabled the firmware updates to be done by the user via USB drive yet?
Sending a projector back for those kind of updates seems too cumbersome.
Thanks much.
Jim
This message was sent to in reference to BenQ Support Case #: 134955.
Follow this link to view the status of your case and add additional comments:
http://support.benq.us/customer/portal/private/cases/134955

*Important Note on Email Sent to Multiple Recipients
If you send or reply to a message with multiple recipients, any responses to the thread may show up as part of the case history, even if those exchanges aren't directed to you. In essence, the owner of the original message also owns all communication associated with that case, regardless of who the subsequent senders and recipients are. Our suggestion is to make sure that all recipients are aware of this, and that the sending of sensitive information is avoided.
[[c95b64d790be0a2929907a4d8b708fc7200e0cba-1378731867]]




Scottyroo:


The above is what I got from that inquiry.
Be interested if you hear again something else.
Let us know.
That's an important feature.


Jim
 
#54 ·
Hi scottyroo,



Thanks for the first impressions!



Did you try gaming @1080p 120hz? HDR?

Would you expect input lag to be halved?



Really hoping to see someone report input lag in this mode for both HT3550 and this model.



cirqueit


The guys of this are mostly the TK800 so I am guessing it will be around the 44ms of that model.

HT3550 has been tested at 63ms on a 1080p Leo Bodnar device.

I haven’t tried gaming at 120hz on the TK800M yet.
 
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