AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/)
-   Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/)
-   -   BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/3054536-benq-tk800m-announced-4k-hdr-dlp-projector.html)

scottyroo 03-05-2019 10:39 AM

BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector
 
ETA is TBD but the product landing page for the TK800M launched this week. This is more of a hardware revision to the TK800 than a brand new product launch. The TK800M will be a refinement of the TK800 and improve on a few key areas, namely the lens assembly and DMD chip.



Spec-wise, everything looks to be the same including the same RGBW color wheel. There are a few exceptions.



- There is curiously a new 'LampSave' mode which claims 15,000 bulb life instead of the 10,000 offered by the TK800's EcoSmart.

- Rec 709 coverage is now claimed at 96% instead of 92%. This is interesting because the 'color accurate' brother of the TK800, the HT2550, also claimed 96%. It would seem the TK800M is having it's cake and eating it too with 3,000 claimed lumens AND 96% Rec709 coverage.

- Zoom decreases from 1.2x to 1.1. This affects the throw range which is slightly changed from 1.47-1.76 to 1.50-165.



The two hardware changes that I know of are 1) improved lens and optical quality and 2) new 'no gray border' DLP DMD from TI. These two changes should yield better contrast and color from the TK800.



Unlike the TK800 getting a hardware update with the TK800M, the HT2550 will be discontinued here in the US. However, the HT2550/W1700 will be getting a similar TK800M treatment with the new lens/DMD in international markets.



That means BenQ's affordable sub-$2k line up so far this year consists of:

- The HT3550 (released later this month at $1,499. My review here.)

- The TK800M (release date and price TBD, although expected to come in a fair amount below the HT3550 in price)

- Not yet announced 'bright' variant of the HT3550 much like the TK800 was to HT2550.



https://www.benq.com/content/dam/b2c...00-front30.jpg

proddan 03-05-2019 02:23 PM

And Benq w1700M is on the page as well...

https://www.benq.com/en/projector/ci...ma/w1700m.html

Home Cinema Projector with 4K UHD,HDR,Rec.709 | W1700M
True 4K UHD 8.3M Pixel resolution

Hyper-Realistic Video Quality with projector-optimized HDR10 / HLG

100% Rec.709 with optimized RGBRGB color wheel

jjsaustin 03-05-2019 06:19 PM

So the website says RGBRGB and your first post states RGBW. I'm not sure which it really is. I would expect it to have a white segment like the TK800.

I'm wondering if it also has frame interpolation like the HT3550.

Also it looks like the throw is even longer than the original TK800. IF that's true, it's a deal breaker for me and I will pull the trigger on the ht3550.

MattAAron 03-05-2019 07:59 PM

Does this (TK800m) have anything the HT3550 doesn't have?

Looking at a side-by-side comparison (TK800 vs HT3550) at projector central, TK800 is a lot brighter

dekin01 03-05-2019 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjsaustin (Post 57699750)
So the website says RGBRGB and your first post states RGBW. I'm not sure which it really is. I would expect it to have a white segment like the TK800.

I'm wondering if it also has frame interpolation like the HT3550.

Also it looks like the throw is even longer than the original TK800. IF that's true, it's a deal breaker for me and I will pull the trigger on the ht3550.

I believe the TK800M is the successor to TK800 while W2700M is the brighter version to W2700

proddan 03-06-2019 12:14 AM

new TK800M successor to (TK800) with new DMD chip and better rec709 - RGBW

new W1700M successor to (W1700) with new DMD chip and 100% rec709, HDR10/HLG support (W1700 had 96%rec709 and no HDR10/HLG support) - RGBRGB


new W2700 projecktor new DMD chip DCI-P3/Rec.709 HDR10/HLG support -RGBRGB

jjsaustin 03-06-2019 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekin01 (Post 57700500)
I believe the TK800M is the successor to TK800 while W2700M is the brighter version to W2700

Just to make sure I understand. The W2700 = HT3550 which was just released. Correct?

Do you know when the W2700M (HT3550M) will be announced?

EDIT: I just read the HT3550 thread and it seems that the brighter W2700/HT3550 may be announced in Q2. It will likely have a white segment to boost the brightness. This looks to be the projector I want.

sage11x 03-06-2019 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proddan (Post 57698696)
And Benq w1700M is on the page as well...



https://www.benq.com/en/projector/ci...ma/w1700m.html



Home Cinema Projector with 4K UHD,HDR,Rec.709 | W1700M

True 4K UHD 8.3M Pixel resolution



Hyper-Realistic Video Quality with projector-optimized HDR10 / HLG



100% Rec.709 with optimized RGBRGB color wheel



That model won’t make it to the states. This was previously called the W1720 in my other post.
@scottyroo I would edit your post to remove “successor” as I think this is what is confusing everyone.

TK800M— entry level bright.
W1700M (update to W1700/HT2550)— entry level theater.

W2700/HT3550– mid level theater.
Un-named W2700/HT3550 sibling— mid level bright.

Hopefully that clears things up.

scottyroo 03-06-2019 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage11x (Post 57701200)
That model won’t make it to the states. This was previously called the W1720 in my other post.
@scottyroo I would edit your post to remove “successor” as I think this is what is confusing everyone.

TK800M— entry level bright.
W1700M (update to W1700/HT2550)— entry level theater.

W2700/HT3550– mid level theater.
Un-named W2700/HT3550 sibling— mid level bright.

Hopefully that clears things up.



Done. Thanks!

thunderbird1100 03-06-2019 05:54 AM

With the HT3550 at $1499, I cant see the TK800M being much if any above $1299. In fact I'd be a little surprised if it was over $1199, at $1299 you pretty much have to jump up to a HT3550 or the bright variant of that with all the added features, most specifically dynamic iris.

Would be killer if they hit a $999 price point right away though.

Kcj1906 03-06-2019 06:07 AM

I’m wondering if the 800M would end up having better input lag than the 3550..

bud16415 03-06-2019 07:03 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Colorlightoutput.com shows the color brightness of the TK800 as 550 lumens and white brightness as 3000 lumens. I know this site is biased away from DLP and their numbers right or wrong are based around the assumption of the color brightness being the summation of the RGB segments light passing ability and they disregard W as being able to aid in color production. They also subtract any benefits of non RGB colors and the TK800 and TH800M have none. BenQ lists the two projectors as RGBW but the color wheel shown on the CLO site shows it as RWGBWG and a six segment color wheel with 90 degrees of the wheel given over to W.

My first projector was a true RGBW with 90 degrees W. and it was a real light cannon of a business projector that in it’s movie mode just turned the W off.

I don’t really understand the W filter is for or really why it has to take up 25% of the color wheel. There is a limited good effect of a W filter even for bright sports the intended usage. Anyone wanting to use this for HT and trying to stick to a full Rec.709 pallet should figure on 600 lumens I think.

If I’m wrong someone maybe can explain it better. In the old days (a few years ago) I was always advised W was not a desired ingredient in color production.

Here is a picture of the 800’s color wheel.

sage11x 03-06-2019 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcj1906 (Post 57701368)
I’m wondering if the 800M would end up having better input lag than the 3550..



I measured 63ms on the HT3550 and 46ms on the TK800 using a Bodnar lag tester. So around 1 frame difference. I should note that this was the same measurement I got with the HT2550.

I expect the TK800M to score the same.

sage11x 03-06-2019 07:42 AM

BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bud16415 (Post 57701664)
Colorlightoutput.com shows the color brightness of the TK800 as 550 lumens and white brightness as 3000 lumens. I know this site is biased away from DLP and their numbers right or wrong are based around the assumption of the color brightness being the summation of the RGB segments light passing ability and they disregard W as being able to aid in color production. They also subtract any benefits of non RGB colors and the TK800 and TH800M have none. BenQ lists the two projectors as RGBW but the color wheel shown on the CLO site shows it as RWGBWG and a six segment color wheel with 90 degrees of the wheel given over to W.



My first projector was a true RGBW with 90 degrees W. and it was a real light cannon of a business projector that in it’s movie mode just turned the W off.



I don’t really understand the W filter is for or really why it has to take up 25% of the color wheel. There is a limited good effect of a W filter even for bright sports the intended usage. Anyone wanting to use this for HT and trying to stick to a full Rec.709 pallet should figure on 600 lumens I think.



If I’m wrong someone maybe can explain it better. In the old days (a few years ago) I was always advised W was not a desired ingredient in color production.



Here is a picture of the 800’s color wheel.



This has to do with frame creation. You’re never going to see an RGBCYW wheel on a DLP47 4K projector due to the rather fixed nature of the XPR system needing to operate at 240Hz (4 pixels or 4 positions per frame of 60Hz content). To put it simply: there isn’t enough time to add anything else.

Edit: I’m not certain of the source for that image above but it remains consistent with what I understand about the TK800’s wheel. Think of that wheel in the context of producing two pixels per rotation and you basically have an RWGBWGR. :)

bud16415 03-06-2019 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage11x (Post 57701920)
This has to do with frame creation. You’re never going to see an RGBCYW wheel on a DLP47 4K projector due to the rather fixed nature of the XPR system needing to operate at 240Hz (4 pixels or 4 positions per frame of 60Hz content). To put it simply: there isn’t enough time to add anything else.

Edit: I’m not certain of the source for that image above but it remains consistent with what I understand about the TK800’s wheel. Think of that wheel in the context of producing two pixels per rotation and you basically have an RWGBGWR.

So are you saying color output will be higher than what would be possible in an old DLP .7 without XPR given 25% of the color wheel is clear in both cases. If CLO is all wet in saying 550 color brightness that should be pointed out.

sage11x 03-06-2019 08:10 AM

BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bud16415 (Post 57701988)
So are you saying color output will be higher than what would be possible in an old DLP .7 without XPR given 25% of the color wheel is clear in both cases. If CLO is all wet in saying 550 color brightness that should be pointed out.



No, not at all, I was just trying to explain why BenQ, Viewsonic and Optoma all use white in their DLP47 models as opposed to cyan, yellow or magenta. :)

For sure, an RGBRGB model without the white segment is going to produce richer, truer to life colors than a model with the white segment. But this isn’t a question of what is better but rather: what is better for your room. I’ve had the original TK800 in my theater and it’s a massively bright projector. What BenQ has done is play with the saturation points to produce a picture that is quite vibrant and doesn’t at all seems lacking in brightness or intensity. However, when compared directly against a more color accurate display it’s clear to see that the focus here is creating an exciting and easily viewable picture in a less than ideal room rather than critical color accuracy in an ideal room.

I prefer RGBRGB. I’ve always been honest about that. However, few of any RGBRGB projectors can combat ambient light the way the TK800 can. There’s a trade off.

Quick note: Before someone @ ‘s me, the Optoma UHD60 is a DLP66 and it’s XPR works slightly differently as each mirror only needs produce 2 pixels instead of 4(120Hz). I always seem to get the: “but the UHD60 is an RGBCYW wheel.” That is true but not applicable to the DLP47 projectors.

scottyroo 03-06-2019 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bud16415 (Post 57701664)
Colorlightoutput.com shows the color brightness of the TK800 as 550 lumens and white brightness as 3000 lumens. I know this site is biased away from DLP and their numbers right or wrong are based around the assumption of the color brightness being the summation of the RGB segments light passing ability and they disregard W as being able to aid in color production. They also subtract any benefits of non RGB colors and the TK800 and TH800M have none. BenQ lists the two projectors as RGBW but the color wheel shown on the CLO site shows it as RWGBWG and a six segment color wheel with 90 degrees of the wheel given over to W.

My first projector was a true RGBW with 90 degrees W. and it was a real light cannon of a business projector that in it’s movie mode just turned the W off.

I don’t really understand the W filter is for or really why it has to take up 25% of the color wheel. There is a limited good effect of a W filter even for bright sports the intended usage. Anyone wanting to use this for HT and trying to stick to a full Rec.709 pallet should figure on 600 lumens I think.

If I’m wrong someone maybe can explain it better. In the old days (a few years ago) I was always advised W was not a desired ingredient in color production.

Here is a picture of the 800’s color wheel.

I did an 'average joe's' review on Youtube on the TK800. .

TL;DR - The balance of color and brightness was really well handled on the TK800. I won't debate the content of that biased site that was created to push sales of 3LCD projectors. It's not objective. There are several calibrators on record stating that the TK800 with its RGBW color wheel can put up a great calibrated image in the 1,500 - 2,000 lumen range. I can confirm that in my setup, a dedicated dark theater, the extra lumens helped in a big way for my 160" screen. Its not about better, like Sage said, its about what is best for the room.

bud16415 03-06-2019 01:55 PM

I agree with both @scottyroo and @sage11x and even projector central in their review of the TK800 where they put the projector at 1792 lumens full and 1147 eco in all modes except brightest. I don’t doubt with a lot of ambient in the room and using the brilliant color mode that adds in the white produces a nice bright picture. Projector Central puts the dimming of not using brilliant color as reducing the lumen output by 55% and eco another 36%. If you conceder turning brilliant color off that put you right around what CLO rates it as having 550 lumens color brightness. This is also going to be the point they then measure the color gamut as 94%-96% Rec.709.

This is a sports projector more than it is a big screen theater projector in those regards. There is a fine line between business, sports projectors IMO. For years I have been talking about crossover projectors and these projectors are basically that.

They always lump the specs together like you get it all at the same time and I don’t think that’s the case.
:)

sage11x 03-06-2019 08:09 PM

BenQ TK800M Announced | 4K HDR DLP Projector
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bud16415 (Post 57704544)
I agree with both @scottyroo and @sage11x and even projector central in their review of the TK800 where they put the projector at 1792 lumens full and 1147 eco in all modes except brightest. I don’t doubt with a lot of ambient in the room and using the brilliant color mode that adds in the white produces a nice bright picture. Projector Central puts the dimming of not using brilliant color as reducing the lumen output by 55% and eco another 36%. If you conceder turning brilliant color off that put you right around what CLO rates it as having 550 lumens color brightness. This is also going to be the point they then measure the color gamut as 94%-96% Rec.709.



This is a sports projector more than it is a big screen theater projector in those regards. There is a fine line between business, sports projectors IMO. For years I have been talking about crossover projectors and these projectors are basically that.



They always lump the specs together like you get it all at the same time and I don’t think that’s the case.

:)


Benq places both the TK800 and TK800M in their ‘home entertainment’ category of projectors as opposed to one of their cinema lines. In my review of the TK800 I likened it to a big flat panel TV. It’s prodigious lumen output and vivid picture makes it perfect as a TV replacement in rooms you wouldn’t normally think of to use a projector in. It does a very good job playing movies the way I’d guess 90% of the populace enjoys watching movies— i.e. not in a completely blacked out room and not being overly critical of color accuracy. That said, I can understand why many people, @scottyroo included, preferred the TK800 for cinema use as it had an appreciably higher contrast ratio and arguably better handling of HDR than it’s stable mate at the time. The impressive brightness is also a boon to those with massive screens. :)

BenQ seems to be serious about making sure this 800M is a noticeable improvement over the outgoing model and that should only serve to make it a better all-rounder than it’s predecessor. But, yeah, if you’re after critical dark room viewing there are better options.

Kcj1906 03-06-2019 08:55 PM

Any word on when this model will be released? I need to decide between this and the 3550 soon. Game of Thrones is coming.

sage11x 03-07-2019 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcj1906 (Post 57706298)
Any word on when this model will be released? I need to decide between this and the 3550 soon. Game of Thrones is coming.



That should be an easy decision: what’s your room like? How do you like to watch? The HT3550 and TK800 are two distinctly different projectors and fall into two different categories: home theater and home entertainment.

The HT3550 is aimed at a traditional home theater projector role. While it has more than enough lumens to compete with the occasional low ambient light situation it is BEST used in a dark or light controlled room. It has more features, better contrast/blacks and highly accurate rec709/DCI-P3 color.

The TK800 is a ‘home entertainment’ projector. It belongs to a category of projectors that are designed to be used in less than ideal environments or for ‘lights on’ viewing. Think living rooms or media rooms or anywhere light might be an issue. It will have a picture that is bright, vivid, and easily viewable even with substantial amounts of ambient light— but it won’t have the type of features, blacks, color accuracy or refinement that a dedicated home theater model like the HT3550 will. This makes it a great ‘party’ projector for game day (or GoT day), Netflix binging, family movie nights or even the occasional backyard theater.

jjsaustin 03-07-2019 05:41 AM

+1 to Sage comments. The only thing I would add is if you are planning on a large screen think 165+ the extra lumens on the TK800 could help.

bud16415 03-07-2019 06:00 AM

Has anyone tested the TK800 or will they be able to test this TK800M on a moderate sized 110-120” low gain neutral gray screen. something .5 gain or even lower.

This projector by all accounts has a lot of white lumens and white counteracts black when it comes to projection and screen.

Kcj1906 03-07-2019 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage11x (Post 57706978)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcj1906 (Post 57706298)
Any word on when this model will be released? I need to decide between this and the 3550 soon. Game of Thrones is coming.



That should be an easy decision: what’s your room like? How do you like to watch? The HT3550 and TK800 are two distinctly different projectors and fall into two different categories: home theater and home entertainment.

The HT3550 is aimed at a traditional home theater projector role. While it has more than enough lumens to compete with the occasional low ambient light situation it is BEST used in a dark or light controlled room. It has more features, better contrast/blacks and highly accurate rec709/DCI-P3 color.

The TK800 is a ‘home entertainment’ projector. It belongs to a category of projectors that are designed to be used in less than ideal environments or for ‘lights on’ viewing. Think living rooms or media rooms or anywhere light might be an issue. It will have a picture that is bright, vivid, and easily viewable even with substantial amounts of ambient light— but it won’t have the type of features, blacks, color accuracy or refinement that a dedicated home theater model like the HT3550 will. This makes it a great ‘party’ projector for game day (or GoT day), Netflix binging, family movie nights or even the occasional backyard theater.

I fall into a sort of middle area. I had my projector (which has now been sold) in the living room with a 110 inch screen . Use black out curtains that can keep out a lot of light, not all though. I probably equally watch things with some lights on as I do at night with total light control.
Ideally I’d go for the bright version of the 3550 as the best of both. But need a solution by April so that’s probably out. I read somewhere Benq does a buy back program, is that true?

bud16415 03-07-2019 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcj1906 (Post 57707454)
I fall into a sort of middle area. I had my projector (which has now been sold) in the living room with a 110 inch screen . Use black out curtains that can keep out a lot of light, not all though. I probably equally watch things with some lights on as I do at night with total light control.
Ideally I’d go for the bright version of the 3550 as the best of both. But need a solution by April so that’s probably out. I read somewhere Benq does a buy back program, is that true?

Sounds like you fall into the fastest growing population of FP users and one I have been in for 15 years. I now have a near perfect room in terms of light control and I could be happy with a very accurate top of the line theater projector except I use my projector dual mode and sometimes want to watch movies lights out as they should be viewed, but other times I want to watch TV or sports with some lights on as they should be viewed.

For that reason I’m more attracted to a projector like this one over the other even though the other would likely do a slightly better job with movies in my room. Also the reason I asked about dark screen viewing in the post above.

scottyroo 03-08-2019 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kcj1906 (Post 57706298)
Any word on when this model will be released? I need to decide between this and the 3550 soon. Game of Thrones is coming.

End of March/beginning of April. I will be getting some hands on time with a sample unit I'm reviewing early next week. Looking forward to sharing more!

Willy212 03-09-2019 06:40 PM

So since it shows on amazon "100” @ 10. 9-12. 0 feet"
I'm guessing this won't do 100" at -10ft?
I did preorder the ht3550, but since i'm down to trying out 3d this would probably be better but sadly my room is only 11ft.

& my only choices are the ht3550 & uhd50, but since the uhd50 was getting on my nerves with the buzz & the grey border around the screen.
I really didn't want to spend 1600$ on the ht3550 because of !TAX! ,
another reason the tk800m would of been perfect since its 1300$+another 100$ tax.

scottyroo 03-09-2019 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willy212 (Post 57721746)
So since it shows on amazon "100” @ 10. 9-12. 0 feet"

I'm guessing this won't do 100" at -10ft?

I did preorder the ht3550, but since i'm down to trying out 3d this would probably be better but sadly my room is only 11ft.



& my only choices are the ht3550 & uhd50, but since the uhd50 was getting on my nerves with the buzz & the grey border around the screen.

I really didn't want to spend 1600$ on the ht3550 because of !TAX! ,

another reason the tk800m would of been perfect since its 1300$+another 100$ tax.



Have you considered using a small mirror on your back wall and shoot the TK800M at it to increase the image size?

Willy212 03-09-2019 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyroo (Post 57721774)
Have you considered using a small mirror on your back wall and shoot the TK800M at it to increase the image size?

I was reading about that, but it's not something i would like to do .
I just want to plug & play.

Roy G Biv 03-09-2019 11:25 PM

With its color lumens so much less than its white lumens, would the same number of lumens for a projector with color brightness matching white brightness look much brighter and/or better saturated?

I’m hoping for something like a 4k equivalent of the Epson 3100 within 1-2 years for $1,000.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.