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post #1 of 14 Old 03-23-2019, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Need help with foot lamberts.

I currently have an Epson 5030UB and am thinking of replacing it with a Benq TK800M.
My room is a living room with lots of ambient light and I don't want to throttle it down.
I use the projector as my TV for news and sports and concerts.


I used the projection calculator for both of these projectors throwing the picture from 15' to a 120" screen.
The Epson shows 70 fl.
The Benq shows 47fl.


Does that mean the Benq won't be as bright as the Epson is?


I thought the Benq was a light cannon.



If not, my ideas are going the wrong way.


Appreciate any and all comments.
Thanks.
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post #2 of 14 Old 03-23-2019, 05:02 PM
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My guess is the numbers you are seeing on the 5030 are in Dynamic mode which you will never watch because of its strong green push. I have a 5030 and compared to the BenQ you are looking it the Epson is by far the inferior choice for your setup. You don't need the additional contrast, it isn't 4K and it doesn't get near as bright in a watchable mode. I switched to an Epson 3700 until I purchase to a 4K projector as I also watch a lot of sports on a 150" screen and it's been great. If they made an e-shift 3700 model and I would get it without hesitation. If you aren't going to use this projector to watch 4K content the 3700 is light canon and one I can recommend. However, if you will ultimately watch 4K content I would purchase accordingly and think you have selected a projector in the BenQ that's appropriate for your viewing environment. All that said, the 5030 in that room can be significantly improved upon.
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post #3 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Hawkmarket:
It's always good to get a second opinion of a supporting nature.
The 5030 has served me well for a few years but I want more of a daytime watchable screen a la sports bar type to add to the enjoyment.
Dynamic mode is something I didn't think of when I saw those numbers.
I tried Dynamic once but that's a push that is too unnatural for me.
I'll be ordering the TK800M soon.
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post #4 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 08:25 AM
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I'm not aware of any calculator that you have ever used being accurate.

That's because the manufacturers posts BS numbers for their brightness and the calculators use the brightness that the manufacturers give.

What is the actual brightness of your Epson 5030? NOT THE CLAIM!!! Go find a review, read it, and find out how much brightness you are probably getting. (hint: About 1,500-1,700 lumens)

Now, do the same for the BenQ. (hint: also about 1,700 lumens, but color won't be as good - research dlp color brightness)

There is your apples to apples comparison.

Kind of like contrast ratio, brightness is often a BS number, especially in the world of DLP projectors with so many models that have clear segments to boost white brightness, but with color brightness that is often quite dismal.

A 'light canon' is a subjective term.

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post #5 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 08:29 AM
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Just keep in mind projectors do not project black. What you see as black regardless of how many lumens a projector can make is going to be what the screen looks like with whatever light is in the room showing you the screen.

If what you want is daytime viewing of a projected image your focus should be more on the screen than the projector IMO.

Actually your focus should be on keeping the light out first then screen.

Bud
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post #6 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Just keep in mind projectors do not project black. What you see as black regardless of how many lumens a projector can make is going to be what the screen looks like with whatever light is in the room showing you the screen.

If what you want is daytime viewing of a projected image your focus should be more on the screen than the projector IMO.

Actually your focus should be on keeping the light out first then screen.
Well, he has a 5030, so let's assume he's already heard this before.

My concern is that the BenQ uses a RGBW color wheel and that color saturation may be far worse than what he has used up to this point. But, reviews say to leave brilliant color on, so I'm going to assume that despite the cut in color saturation, that this is the better way to go to get a few more lumens.

I wouldn't call the BenQ a light canon. Not when Epson regularly delivers 1,500+ lumens from most of their models.

I would expect results that are nearly identical to what is currently being delivered.

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post #7 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
Well, he has a 5030, so let's assume he's already heard this before.

My concern is that the BenQ uses a RGBW color wheel and that color saturation may be far worse than what he has used up to this point. But, reviews say to leave brilliant color on, so I'm going to assume that despite the cut in color saturation, that this is the better way to go to get a few more lumens.

I wouldn't call the BenQ a light canon. Not when Epson regularly delivers 1,500+ lumens from most of their models.

I would expect results that are nearly identical to what is currently being delivered.
I don’t know enough about the implementation of the white/clear segment in 4k projectors to really be able to advise. They could be just more of the same RGBW mumbo jumbo carried over from the 720/1080 days being there to mainly claim a higher lumen output than it really is.

Now with these projectors attempting some kind of “HDR” effects out of 4k sources they could be using these lumens for a more practical reason with HDR highlights. I really don’t know.

My very first projector was a true DLP light cannon of its day with a RGBW color wheel. I will say the white segment did some of what would be expected in just diluting everything in favor of more lumens. But it also IMO had some positive effects for brighter room viewing when coupled with a darker gray screen.

That lead me to think there had to be some positives out of the RGBCYW projectors and I did find a little but nothing like I had hoped.

Those were a long time ago in terms of projectors though and what is the white in the color wheel now there for I don’t know.

Bud
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post #8 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll pitch back in here and mention that I have a CineGrey 1.4 gain screen so that's dealing with some of the light from the windows.


It does look decent with the 5030 but I want more without sacrificing daylight.


I've read every review I can find on the Benq TK800 and 800M and my head is spinning from all the details but I didn't find any review that contradicted the lumen claims made by the manufacturer.


I know I won't find utopia regardless of what I do but closeness is my goal. I can live with that.


Thanks to all you folks. I appreciate all the information.


Jim
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post #9 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 10:36 AM
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One thing's for sure: Any DLP projector lamp light that passes through a white/clear color wheel segment is light that's not going through a color segment. Therefore that white lamp light can only increase brightness by decreasing maximum color saturation as maximum color saturation can only be achieved with all lamp light passing through color segments. The more space on a color wheel given to white/clear segments the less space available on that color wheel for color segments. It's a tradeoff that works for some people in some conditions but not for everyone in all conditions. Almost every DLP projector company markets their models with white/clear segments primarily for use in some ambient light and their models with only RGB segments primarily for use in dark theater settings.
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post #10 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 11:49 AM
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by flight planner View Post
I'll pitch back in here and mention that I have a CineGrey 1.4 gain screen so that's dealing with some of the light from the windows.


It does look decent with the 5030 but I want more without sacrificing daylight.


I've read every review I can find on the Benq TK800 and 800M and my head is spinning from all the details but I didn't find any review that contradicted the lumen claims made by the manufacturer.


I know I won't find utopia regardless of what I do but closeness is my goal. I can live with that.


Thanks to all you folks. I appreciate all the information.


Jim

Is it fair to assume 4K is important to you?
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post #11 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I wouldn't say that 4K is important because there isn't much shown anywhere or even to be found streaming yet.


However, I'm a believer in "future proofing" and the added cost for a 4K option isn't much.


Unless there is a non-4K projector which would serve my purposes better than the 800M.


I've been reading review after review and nothing else has grabbed me as much.
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post #12 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 12:55 PM
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The soon to be arriving (I'd guess in the next 60 days) Epson 5050 or even existing 5040 would likely be a good option. My guess is you're around 1,600 calibrated lumens or even have a "Bright Cinema" mode that will take you higher than that. On 120" 1.4 screen (if it really is 1.4) you're looking at around 42fl. My guess is that's inflated but lets call it 30-40fl and that's white and color brightness. E-shift vs. 4K would almost be indistinguishable unless your nose is pressed up against the screen on a 120". Tremendous placement flexibility, better contrast if your room can support it and you'll appreciate the more brilliant colors watching lots of sports. Test drive a 5040 if you get a chance.
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post #13 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmarket View Post
The soon to be arriving (I'd guess in the next 60 days) Epson 5050 or even existing 5040 would likely be a good option. My guess is you're around 1,600 calibrated lumens or even have a "Bright Cinema" mode that will take you higher than that. On 120" 1.4 screen (if it really is 1.4) you're looking at around 42fl. My guess is that's inflated but lets call it 30-40fl and that's white and color brightness. E-shift vs. 4K would almost be indistinguishable unless your nose is pressed up against the screen on a 120". Tremendous placement flexibility, better contrast if your room can support it and you'll appreciate the more brilliant colors watching lots of sports. Test drive a 5040 if you get a chance.



The one reason I am shying away from the 5040/5050 is the size and weight.
They're about the same size as my current 5030 and that's a pain to get down from the mount.
There are so many more compact devices on the market with comparable good features to choose from.
And don't know of anywhere near me that is a projector "showroom" to give a hand-on evaluation.
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post #14 of 14 Old 03-24-2019, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Don't know why I forgot another factor to leaving off the 5040/5050 consideration.
They are about twice the cost as many other competitors on the market.
They aren't twice as good though. IMHO
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