THE Epson 5050UB/6050UB Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ezelkow1 View Post
First look before the review at projectorreviews is up
https://www.projectorreviews.com/eps...t-look-review/

Fairly glowing, especially about its HDR performance, sounds like it mostly equals the sony's. Also between the pjr's and the above video sounds like the eshift really has had some revamping, plus the adding tone-mapping makes a huge difference

So still stuck, 5050 with more brightness and possibly better colors, or 5550 with more-ish pixels and sharpness
Sounds like Epson will continue with their trend of being the best bang for your buck with their UB series. You can improve upon their picture but the incremental differences start to cost thousands of dollars. They hit that sweet spot for me. Looking forward to a 5050 in my future.
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post #122 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ezelkow1 View Post
First look before the review at projectorreviews is up

https://www.projectorreviews.com/eps...t-look-review/



Fairly glowing, especially about its HDR performance, sounds like it mostly equals the sony's. Also between the pjr's and the above video sounds like the eshift really has had some revamping, plus the adding tone-mapping makes a huge difference



So still stuck, 5050 with more brightness and possibly better colors, or 5550 with more-ish pixels and sharpness


Spoke with Art on the phone over the weekend. I know he was excited to share his impressions. Seems to have hit the sweet spot for him.
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"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
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post #123 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 11:03 AM
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I wish there were somebody like ifixit - but for projectors - who can tear down projectors and see what was actually changed between update cycles. 5040 and 5050 share same light source, same body and probably same lenses. Good chances that there are just some software updates and minor hardware tweaks (like 18gbps hdmi). For myself - I decided to save exactly 2k$ (price difference between refurb 5040 and new 5050ub with taxes) and stick for 5040ub (I also have hdfury - so 18gpbs not a big deal). In a year or two - will update to bright laser projector to deal with 150" screen I have
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post #124 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezelkow1 View Post
First look before the review at projectorreviews is up
https://www.projectorreviews.com/eps...t-look-review/

Fairly glowing, especially about its HDR performance, sounds like it mostly equals the sony's. Also between the pjr's and the above video sounds like the eshift really has had some revamping, plus the adding tone-mapping makes a huge difference

So still stuck, 5050 with more brightness and possibly better colors, or 5550 with more-ish pixels and sharpness
I was considering a move from my 5030UB to a refurbished 5040UB, but Art Feierman's comments below from Projector Reviews have convinced me to hold out for a deal on the 5050UB. I am at peace.

Art Feierman of Projector Reviews:

Quote:
On paper, the 5050UB is not a significant improvement over its [5040UB] predecessor. The reality is quite different. [...]

Welcome to a brave new world where HDR looks killer! [...]

Thanks to the Tone mapping, and a touch more brightness claimed (we’ll post our full measurements for the full review), the HC5050UB is easily a significant step up in picture quality for 4K content with HDR and P3. [...]

With the older UB, many enthusiasts calibrating their own projectors chose to rely on the brighter Bright Cinema mode for HDR (sacrificing the wider P3 color gamut). I admit that is a tempting solution, although I mostly stuck to viewing with Digital Cinema, with barely half the overall brightness. With the Home Cinema 5050UB, however, even Digital Cinema HDR content looked definitely bright enough at my full 124” diagonal image size! [...]

When it comes to the overall picture quality (specifically 4K with HDR), the Home Cinema 5050UB produces a real, and obvious improvement over the best results I could come up with in 2+ years of playing with the 5040UB. Most of that folks, is due to the new tone mapping. [...]

[I]f you have been waiting a few years to move to a 4K capable projector – and your budget doesn’t allow for native 4K: This is probably your ticket! I do believe your time has come to make the upgrade! While the Home Cinema 5050UB, despite excellent image detail processing, will not match the sharpness/detail of a very good 4K UHD DLP, or a native 4K LCoS projector, it looks far sharper, with definitely more detail than say older Epson’s like the non-4K capable 5030UB.
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Photos Of My Theater | Vero 4K | Epson 5030UB + Peerless PRG-UNV | 100" EluneVision Reference 4K Screen | Onkyo TX-NR555 @ 5.2.2 | 4 x ADX Maximus w/ Dayton Audio SA230 | Polk Audio RTi A9 + CSi A6 + OWM3 + Micca M8C + SVS PC2000 | 40" HDTV w/ Z83V Mini PC + MoviePosterApp | Z83V + DietPi FTP Server + 3 x 8TB HDDs + 4 x DLink DHP-701AV

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post #125 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post
I was considering a move from my 5030UB to a refurbished 5040UB, but Art Feierman's comments below from Projector Reviews have convinced me to hold out for a deal on the 5050UB. I am at peace.



Art Feierman of Projector Reviews:


Are there anymore places for refurb 5040’s besides Epson that are sold out?


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post #126 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 06:11 PM
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Well after going back and forth in my head against the 5550 I think Im settled back on the 5050. Epson is known territory for me wrt to placement, brightness, etc, and after looking up recommended viewing distances for 4k at 100in vs 11.5ft distance it looks like Im barely on the cusp of being able to notice a difference in 4k, so I think the 2x vs 4x shifter probably wont make much of a difference in my environment but the extra power for HDR and blacks probably will. So I think its time pull the trigger
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post #127 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tschu View Post
Are there anymore places for refurb 5040’s besides Epson that are sold out?
Directly from Epson is the only place in aware of. I had been checking daily for the past two weeks (Epson Canada) and it's been sold out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Photos Of My Theater | Vero 4K | Epson 5030UB + Peerless PRG-UNV | 100" EluneVision Reference 4K Screen | Onkyo TX-NR555 @ 5.2.2 | 4 x ADX Maximus w/ Dayton Audio SA230 | Polk Audio RTi A9 + CSi A6 + OWM3 + Micca M8C + SVS PC2000 | 40" HDTV w/ Z83V Mini PC + MoviePosterApp | Z83V + DietPi FTP Server + 3 x 8TB HDDs + 4 x DLink DHP-701AV
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post #128 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 06:45 PM
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Also just found this from the guys who did one of the first looks,

Seems interesting, sounds like they have a filter that they sell with their edition and then calibrate against that lets you run at fully dynamic mode, but the filter removes the green shift. So you can run at full blast brightness while still retaining good color. Wonder if theres anyway to buy these filters somewhere else
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post #129 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post
Directly from Epson is the only place in aware of. I had been checking daily for the past two weeks (Epson Canada) and it's been sold out.


Me too, haha.


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post #130 of 3544 Old 04-09-2019, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezelkow1 View Post
Also just found this from the guys who did one of the first looks,

Seems interesting, sounds like they have a filter that they sell with their edition and then calibrate against that lets you run at fully dynamic mode, but the filter removes the green shift. So you can run at full blast brightness while still retaining good color. Wonder if theres anyway to buy these filters somewhere else
Be super careful with this idea... Epsons (and many others for that matter) are generally relatively quiet in low and medium light modes, but are very loud when running at their highest brightness. If you have the projector close to your seating position this might be a non-starter because it will be extremely distracting.
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post #131 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezelkow1 View Post
Well after going back and forth in my head against the 5550 I think Im settled back on the 5050. Epson is known territory for me wrt to placement, brightness, etc, and after looking up recommended viewing distances for 4k at 100in vs 11.5ft distance it looks like Im barely on the cusp of being able to notice a difference in 4k, so I think the 2x vs 4x shifter probably wont make much of a difference in my environment but the extra power for HDR and blacks probably will. So I think its time pull the trigger
How do I look this up? My screen is 120" and my first row of seating is about 11' from the screen. When I eventually upgrade my projector I am going to consider upgrading my screen and possibly going a bit smaller (110"?) if it make sense.
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post #132 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 06:16 AM
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How do I look this up? My screen is 120" and my first row of seating is about 11' from the screen. When I eventually upgrade my projector I am going to consider upgrading my screen and possibly going a bit smaller (110"?) if it make sense.
https://www.inchcalculator.com/tv-si...ce-calculator/

But you can google for 4k viewing distance calculator, there are a bunch out there. They all just go by the THX and SMPTE preferred viewing sizes. Im sure even at my distance there will be a noticeable impact since for 90in it ranges from 9-14, so 100in is probably more like 10-15, but I am slightly outside the real sweet spot, I probably should have worded that better and not say 'notice a difference in 4k' since it will still be noticable

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post #133 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
Stable 26.8-26.9ms on both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 with 4K enhancement on and off. Interestingly, input lag results on both “image processing fine” and “fast” were identical. I am testing with a 1080p Bodnar from the middle of screen. Several European review outlets have the 4K Bodnar device and are testing at 22ms of input lag in 4K HDR. This is VERY good.

The Epson 5050UB is the fastest input lag from a 4 million pixel HDR projector (or any shifter for that matter) we have seen. The Optoma HD27HDR is the fastest 1080p (2 million pixel) HDR projector at 16ms (effectively zero. 16ms is the floor for 60fps and the optoma can technically do 8ms in 120hz mode). The BenQ TK800M is the fastest 8 million pixel ‘true’ 4K HDR projector at 42ms (that costs under $5,000).

If they can afford the cost of entry, gamers will be happy with this guy.
Thank you for this. I just found out about this projector last night, and haven't seen anyone else measure the input lag yet. After getting some bad burn-in on an LG OLED from gaming, I think I'm going projector for the living room this year, and this Epson just shot to the top of the list.

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post #134 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ANGELUS View Post
Thank you for this. I just found out about this projector last night, and haven't seen anyone else measure the input lag yet. After getting some bad burn-in on an LG OLED from gaming, I think I'm going projector for the living room this year, and this Epson just shot to the top of the list.
A first runner up for still very good 4K gaming performance is the BenQ TK800M @ $1,299. For 4K HDR gamers on a budget, this is my top pick. The 42ms input lag of the TK800M is truly imperceptible by ME playing first person shooters.
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"The Bunker" | Dedicated Theater Build Under Suspended Slab Garage
Testing: BenQ HT5550 | Epson 5050UB | 160" Dragonfly™ Fixed AT Screen
Denon X6300H | 9.4.4 (7.2.4 Discrete) | 9x Episode 900 Series LCR/Surrounds | 4x Episode 1700 Series ATMOS Heights | 4x Episode 12" Evo Subs
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post #135 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
A first runner up for still very good 4K gaming performance is the BenQ TK800M @ $1,299. For 4K HDR gamers on a budget, this is my top pick. The 42ms input lag of the TK800M is truly imperceptible by ME playing first person shooters.
That's a great looking projector and thanks for the added option. I think the Epson will be a better fit for me despite the higher price (or maybe because of it). I likely would notice the input lag, and am also sensitive to DLP rainbows. When playing a fighting game or a game like Sekiro both those things would probably bother me a little bit every day on the BenQ.
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post #136 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ANGELUS View Post
That's a great looking projector and thanks for the added option. I think the Epson will be a better fit for me despite the higher price (or maybe because of it). I likely would notice the input lag, and am also sensitive to DLP rainbows. When playing a fighting game or a game like Sekiro both those things would probably bother me a little bit every day on the BenQ.
Yep. If you can afford it the Epson is the gaming champ for now.

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post #137 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 12:21 PM
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My 8700UB is on its last leg. Obviously it's many generations old. I'm assuming the 5050UB will be a massive upgrade for 1080p content?

For watching 1080p content, is the general consensus to leave e-shift settings off to make sure you're getting the sharpest picture? I have a 106" screen in a bedroom that's basically a mini HT room, and I sit about 8' away (front row), and I don't get any "screen door" effect.

Obviously the consensus for watching 4k material is to use Eshift.

The other improvements over the 8700UB that I'm really looking forward to is: 1) finally being able to watch 3D movies, 2) having super good input lag...the 8700UB is a big slow by today's standards. Just not sure what else I should expect because $2999 is a little hard to swallow!
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post #138 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
I used a Canon 6D in these shots. All were shot with 1/5 shutter speed, 4000 ISO, f5.6.

Benq HT5550 on left. Epson 5050 on right.

Epson has better black floor (see letter boxes in HDR) but hopefully you can pick up in the shots that the BenQ has better shadow detail. That is what I am seeing in person at least.

HDR default. Both are in default Modes out of box settings in this picture. Both P3 filters on. Both irises are on. Epson set to Digital Cinema.



SDR Default. BenQ Cinema (Rec709) Mode and Epson Natural Mode. My 1080p SDR version of the film had the IMAX 16:10 ratios baked in. Filters off. Iris on.



Preferred HDR. BenQ set to HDR Brightness +1. That’s it. Epson is using calibrated settings from @Alaric based on Dogital Cinema. Both filters and irises still on.



Preferred SDR. BenQ Cinema (Rec709) mode. Brilliant Color. @Alaric ‘s calibrated SDR mode based on Natural. Filters off. Irises on.

Removed the photos to make the reply shorter but... are those supposed to be split down the middle with BenQ on one side and the Epson on the other? I literally cannot see a single difference between the two sides. I guess that means I should go for the BenQ since its much cheaper.
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post #139 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post
My 8700UB is on its last leg. Obviously it's many generations old. I'm assuming the 5050UB will be a massive upgrade for 1080p content?

For watching 1080p content, is the general consensus to leave e-shift settings off to make sure you're getting the sharpest picture? I have a 106" screen in a bedroom that's basically a mini HT room, and I sit about 8' away (front row), and I don't get any "screen door" effect.

Obviously the consensus for watching 4k material is to use Eshift.

The other improvements over the 8700UB that I'm really looking forward to is: 1) finally being able to watch 3D movies, 2) having super good input lag...the 8700UB is a big slow by today's standards. Just not sure what else I should expect because $2999 is a little hard to swallow!
I remember one of my first projectors was a Epson 1080UB and went through a few Epsons over the years and was always impressed with them for the price. I haven't owned one in quite a while but just checking out some initial reviews on the 5050UB and it seems it's going to be a great projector in the under 3K market. It would for sure be one I would consider if I was in the market at that price range.

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post #140 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post
My 8700UB is on its last leg. Obviously it's many generations old. I'm assuming the 5050UB will be a massive upgrade for 1080p content?

For watching 1080p content, is the general consensus to leave e-shift settings off to make sure you're getting the sharpest picture? I have a 106" screen in a bedroom that's basically a mini HT room, and I sit about 8' away (front row), and I don't get any "screen door" effect.

Obviously the consensus for watching 4k material is to use Eshift.

The other improvements over the 8700UB that I'm really looking forward to is: 1) finally being able to watch 3D movies, 2) having super good input lag...the 8700UB is a big slow by today's standards. Just not sure what else I should expect because $2999 is a little hard to swallow!
When the Epson receives a 4K signal it sets eShift on and you cannot turn it off. This is true even if the real source is a 1080p signal something else upscaled to 4K and sends it to the Epson. I don't see a significant difference with eShift off or on when my Epson 5040 is fed 1080p signals.

Those who say you can't do HDR on projectors I don't know what to say. I use the Natural setting and tweak it for an HDR memory on my 5040 and it's beautiful. Rarely you'll watch some HDR content that is super dim (must be how it was mastered or some such) but normally HDR looks really good on my 5040.
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post #141 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
I use the Natural setting and tweak it for an HDR memory on my 5040 and it's beautiful. Rarely you'll watch some HDR content that is super dim (must be how it was mastered or some such) but normally HDR looks really good on my 5040.
Do you use customized gamma points/curves? I'm curious if customized gamma curves on the 5040 can be created and saved to mimic the tone mapping steps of the 5050.

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post #142 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 03:27 PM
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Question?

I have a question for 5050ub owners. What is the distance between the front and rear feet measured at the center of each feet? I have a rear shelf that is smaller than the depth of the projector, but it might fit depending on where the feet are located at.

AV since 1980

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post #143 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 04:24 PM
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Does anyone know if the 5050ube’s wireless capability supports hdr and/or p3 color? All I’ve read is that it supports [email protected]
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post #144 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 04:56 PM
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First off,

Appreesh all knowledge given here for free.

I am building my theater now and will have the following dimensions:

120" screen
First row of Rialto mid row chairs 11ft from screen, 2nd row of Rialto back row chairs starting 3ft back (head at 16ft), then riser with granite Bartop and stools. Back wall about 23ft back from screen.

Looking at Epson for their enormous throw distance (projector central says 5040 and 5050 can go up to 24ft 9") and great zoom and shift capacity.

Shelf mounting the pj flush inside back wall so lens will be about 23ft from screen

Will the brightness be strong enough in a fully lighting controlled theater with no ambient light where I don't have to run in high mode?

Was about to pull trigger on 5040 then saw the 5050 just arrived.
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First off,

Appreesh all knowledge given here for free.

I am building my theater now and will have the following dimensions:

120" screen
First row of Rialto mid row chairs 11ft from screen, 2nd row of Rialto back row chairs starting 3ft back (head at 16ft), then riser with granite Bartop and stools. Back wall about 23ft back from screen.

Looking at Epson for their enormous throw distance (projector central says 5040 and 5050 can go up to 24ft 9") and great zoom and shift capacity.

Shelf mounting the pj flush inside back wall so lens will be about 23ft from screen

Will the brightness be strong enough in a fully lighting controlled theater with no ambient light where I don't have to run in high mode?

Was about to pull trigger on 5040 then saw the 5050 just arrived.
Using the following tool helps you to get an idea of what to expect (looks like you can expect about 25fL assuming a 1.0 gain screen). From what I understand, these estimates will get more accurate over time as they are able to test the units rather than rely generally on the specs. It’s a good tool to use for an estimate though. Looks like you should be good to go.

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...ulator-pro.htm

Last edited by zdoggz; 04-10-2019 at 05:09 PM.
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post #146 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by zdoggz View Post
Using the following tool helps you to get an idea of what to expect (looks like you can expect about 25fL assuming a 1.0 gain screen). From what I understand, these estimates will get more accurate over time as they are able to test the units rather than rely generally on the specs. It’s a good tool to use for an estimate though. Looks like you should be good to go.

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...ulator-pro.htm

Yeah I see that there but don't know what a fL represents on the brightness scale (nor what that scale looks like LOL) and if 25 is good from 20ft if sitting and eating at the back bar. Is it plenty bright in a light controlled room or would it have to be completely dark to see it well?
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post #147 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scosdaddy View Post
First off,



Appreesh all knowledge given here for free.



I am building my theater now and will have the following dimensions:



120" screen

First row of Rialto mid row chairs 11ft from screen, 2nd row of Rialto back row chairs starting 3ft back (head at 16ft), then riser with granite Bartop and stools. Back wall about 23ft back from screen.



Looking at Epson for their enormous throw distance (projector central says 5040 and 5050 can go up to 24ft 9") and great zoom and shift capacity.



Shelf mounting the pj flush inside back wall so lens will be about 23ft from screen



Will the brightness be strong enough in a fully lighting controlled theater with no ambient light where I don't have to run in high mode?



Was about to pull trigger on 5040 then saw the 5050 just arrived.


You will be fine.

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post #148 of 3544 Old 04-10-2019, 06:16 PM
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You will be fine.
Thanks!!!!
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post #149 of 3544 Old 04-11-2019, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Scosdaddy View Post
First off,



Appreesh all knowledge given here for free.



I am building my theater now and will have the following dimensions:



120" screen

First row of Rialto mid row chairs 11ft from screen, 2nd row of Rialto back row chairs starting 3ft back (head at 16ft), then riser with granite Bartop and stools. Back wall about 23ft back from screen.



Looking at Epson for their enormous throw distance (projector central says 5040 and 5050 can go up to 24ft 9") and great zoom and shift capacity.



Shelf mounting the pj flush inside back wall so lens will be about 23ft from screen



Will the brightness be strong enough in a fully lighting controlled theater with no ambient light where I don't have to run in high mode?



Was about to pull trigger on 5040 then saw the 5050 just arrived.
I've got the TW9400, the UK equivalent. I've a 120" screen and sit about 12' away, the pj is ceiling mounted at 14', light controlled and lots of velvet on the walls/ceiling too!

It throws a fantastic picture and I'm very happy with it. My standard SDR setting is low power and after calibration (Natural) the iris is down at - 4 with 16ftl which is the recommended max.
I've light to spare and an awesome picture.

HDR with the filter after calibration, depends on the film, high is bright and very good at the low end of the slider, but that is running on high power, the PJ is pretty close and with a film going it is rarely an issue. The noisy is way less than an unmodified inuke for example!

I also created a slightly less accurate HDR setting using the Natural mode and found that it a bit bright at the mid point of the HDR slider, i dropped the slider a notch and switched to Medium and was happier on Transformers The Last Knight.

Great thing about having high mode is that you get to make that choice, quieter for a little less accurate or brighter when you need it!
You get 3 power modes, optional filter and lots of flexibility

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
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post #150 of 3544 Old 04-11-2019, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ezelkow1 View Post
Well after going back and forth in my head against the 5550 I think Im settled back on the 5050. Epson is known territory for me wrt to placement, brightness, etc, and after looking up recommended viewing distances for 4k at 100in vs 11.5ft distance it looks like Im barely on the cusp of being able to notice a difference in 4k, so I think the 2x vs 4x shifter probably wont make much of a difference in my environment but the extra power for HDR and blacks probably will. So I think its time pull the trigger
I made the exact same decision based on the exact same calculations.
I'm currently at 11' from a 110" 16:9 screen. And I'm upgrading from a 5030, so I wasn't ready to give up on the contrast, deep blacks, and extra brightness for sports and Disney movies with the kids with some lights on.

Video: Epson 5050 / nVidia Shield / OPPO-103
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