THE Epson 5050UB/6050UB Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 134 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3991 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
Does anyone use the Epson 5050UB as a second display device on a receiver with dual (cloned) HDMI outputs (i.e. a 4k HDR TV like an LG C8 OLED on HDMI1 and the Epson 5050UB on HDMI2)? I am using it this way with a Yamaha RX-A3070, multiple 4k sources, and an LG C8 on HDMI1 out and the Epson 5050UB on HDMI2 out and am having trouble finding a long HDMI cable between the reciever and proejctor that works 100%. If you have this setup, what long HDMI cable are you using that works?

Passive 50' cables don't pass high bandwidth modes (anything more than 4k60 8-bit 4:2:0). And active cables are giving me issues when switching from the projector back to the LG. Basically it appears that my two choices for active 4k HDMI 2.0 18gbps hybrid fiber cables (MavisLink and RUIPRO) don't recognize the projector going into standby and continue to try to have the receiver sync with HDMI2 even while the projector is in standby. I get audio through my speakers and a picture on the LG for awhile while the receiver is blinking the HDMI2 out indicator, but eventually the Yamaha gives up and goes blank (no HDMI indicators, no audio, no video on the LG) untill I unplug the 50' HDMI cable or unplug the power from the projector. Here's my post in the long HDMI 2.0 cables thread with the details:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...l#post58714868

So, I'd love to hear, if you have a similar setup with both a 4k TV and a 5050UB and especially if you have both connected to a Yamaha receiver and a long run to your projector, what cable you are using.

Thanks in advance!

-J.C.


I had some random handshake issues with various sources when I was using a fiber optic cables which went away completely when I switched to this Blue Jeans Series-3A Active HDMI Cable:

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/series3a.htm

This active cable has been absolutely flawless at 40 feet with 4K HDR 60FPS 4:4:4 and every other resolution I have thrown at it.

Definitely worth the purchase!
Where can I buy this? I can't find the BJC Series-3A cables for sale anywhere, even on the Blue Jeans Cable website. Can you please post a link of the cables for sale? A 40' cable would be perfect for my use (10m/33' too short and 15m/50' is a bit long, but 40' is just right).

Main: Marantz AV8805, 5x Behringer NX4-6000, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.6+2: DefTech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, M&K MX-125. Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3070, LG C8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 5.1.4: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, 3x Marantz MA700U, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R
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post #3992 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 04:37 AM
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Hi Team, I currently have a Benq W1070+ PLUS and want to upgrade to a 4k projector.
I have found an Epson EH-TW9300W on sale (apparently) for around $2800 and just want everyone opinion before pulling the trigger. I am aware that only sony do true 4k projectors but my budget is $3000.
Do you guys think the Epson EH-TW9300W is a good buy or would you recommend something else?
I've got an xbox one x and am looking for something that can play 4k games
any help would be appreciated. also is $2800 a good price?
also I'm a little confused about the American model number vs the Australian model number
Thanks
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post #3993 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owensun View Post
Hi Team, I currently have a Benq W1070+ PLUS and want to upgrade to a 4k projector.
I have found an Epson EH-TW9300W on sale (apparently) for around $2800 and just want everyone opinion before pulling the trigger. I am aware that only sony do true 4k projectors but my budget is $3000.
Do you guys think the Epson EH-TW9300W is a good buy or would you recommend something else?
I've got an xbox one x and am looking for something that can play 4k games
any help would be appreciated. also is $2800 a good price?
also I'm a little confused about the American model number vs the Australian model number
Thanks
The TW9300 is "last year's model" and is similar to the Epson 6040UB, and both are similar to the TW8300/5040UB. You can get a new Epson 5050UB from Amazon US for US$2999. The 5050UB/6050UB are similar to the EH-TW8400/TW9400. Or you can wait until next month and the price will drop to $2699 ($300 off). It is a great projector, the TW8400/5050UB or TW9400/6050UB are better than the TW9300 and worth getting.

Main: Marantz AV8805, 5x Behringer NX4-6000, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.6+2: DefTech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, M&K MX-125. Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3070, LG C8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 5.1.4: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, 3x Marantz MA700U, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R

Last edited by jch2; 10-22-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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post #3994 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 04:56 AM
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@jch2 the TW9400 is more similar to the 6050UB specification wise.
The TW8400 seems more similar to the 5050UB.

@owensun this is the Epson product page for Australia, no 9300:
https://www.epson.com.au/products/ho...grouptypeID=32

Not sure about the Australian market, but $2800 seems steep for a previous generation model.

What is the size room that is going to be used? Ceiling height?
Seating distance? Size and format of current screen? Fabric of screen?
Color of walls? Any light from the windows?
Any other use than Xbox games? What kind of games?

Last edited by noob00224; 10-22-2019 at 05:09 AM.
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post #3995 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
The projector does have 47% horizontal lens shift which means the projector can be quite a bit off center. Any way you could shift it 3 ft off center either left or right?
I have a wall that's 115" long to play with. However, 113" of that overlap with the sectional, so with a full house somebody will likely always sit right under the projector. I was playing with the idea of putting it on a shelf close to the ceiling, but I was worried about HDMI cable length ...
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post #3996 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
Where can I buy this? I can't find the BJC Series-3A cables for sale anywhere, even on the Blue Jeans Cable website. Can you please post a link of the cables for sale? A 40' cable would be perfect for my use (10m/33' too short and 15m/50' is a bit long, but 40' is just right).
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store...hdmi-cable.htm

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
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post #3997 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1475 View Post
I have a wall that's 115" long to play with. However, 113" of that overlap with the sectional, so with a full house somebody will likely always sit right under the projector. I was playing with the idea of putting it on a shelf close to the ceiling, but I was worried about HDMI cable length ...
I wouldn't be that concerned about the cable length honestly there are plenty of people myself included have run anywhere from 25 to 50 ft or more of cable sometimes you have to go to the fiber optic cable but the one listed above the blue jeans cable seems to work really well for a lot of people

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post #3998 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameer View Post
Can you share your settings in madvr? I mainly use pass hdr if display support it.
This screenshot is build 86

The min target/real display peak nits: "79" should be "99" on my setup and this number will be different for you depending on your display brightness (take your fc or fl number and multiply it by 3.43 to get your nits value).
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--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #3999 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Claeys View Post
thx, how many nits do you input for the 6050?

I have a 5040, but it will be relative still...

I have a 150" 16:9 screen with my pj about 18ft away and on Natural mode in medium lamp I get 29fc/fL or 99nits.

Multiply your fc/fL value by 3.43 = nits value

--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #4000 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
Where can I buy this? I can't find the BJC Series-3A cables for sale anywhere, even on the Blue Jeans Cable website. Can you please post a link of the cables for sale? A 40' cable would be perfect for my use (10m/33' too short and 15m/50' is a bit long, but 40' is just right).
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store...hdmi-cable.htm

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Oh wow, those don't show up on the mobile version of that page (when accessed from my Android phone). I had to switch to desktop mode to see the Series-3 cables.

Thanks!

-J.C.

Main: Marantz AV8805, 5x Behringer NX4-6000, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.6+2: DefTech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, M&K MX-125. Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3070, LG C8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 5.1.4: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, 3x Marantz MA700U, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R
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post #4001 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 11:44 AM
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Not one, but two new HC5050UB reviews:


https://hometheaterreview.com/epson-...ctor-reviewed/

and:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/


and I'll add a link to the previously mentioned comparison review:

http://cine4home.de/benq-w5700-vs-ep...nzimmerbeamer/
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post #4002 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Not one, but two new HC5050UB reviews:


https://hometheaterreview.com/epson-...ctor-reviewed/

and:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/


and I'll add a link to the previously mentioned comparison review:

http://cine4home.de/benq-w5700-vs-ep...nzimmerbeamer/
Those sound good!
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post #4003 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gunlife View Post
Those sound good!

There are several others out there on:

Projector Reviews
Another from Projector Reviews
Projector Central
Sound and Vision
and, of course, AVSForum

Panasonic DP-UB820, Marantz AV7704, Epson 5050UB, Stewart Firehawk 16x9 82"; Parasound Amplifiers: HCA 1000A, HCA 1206; Paradigm Speakers: Premier 800F (R/L), ADP-370 (SS), Premier 600C, Monitor v.4 (RB, LB), PW2100 v.2, Hsu sub VTF-2 Mk5; Power Condition: Adcom ACE 315 & 515, Tripplite HT7300PC & HTRL15UPS; Other Sources: Pioneer CLD-D606 & DVL-919, JVC HR-S9600U; Cable: Redmere Elite HDMI, Monster Mi.2S, Kimber Kable.
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post #4004 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete ramberg View Post
What about adjusting the low-end gamma value(s)? Has anyone tried that with any success?




Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlife View Post
I agree with everything you just said. Just not sure why Epson chose to destroy their under 5k MSRP black level advantage with their chosen way to tone map. I first noticed the issue while reading Soundandvision.com review. On the test bench page they say this:

"The projector's full-on/ full-off SDR contrast ratio was achieved with the Natural color mode, Medium Power Consumption, and High Speed Auto Iris setting active. With this combination, black measured 0.001 ft-L and peak white 34.7 ft-L for a contrast ratio of 34,700:1. The projector's native (Auto Iris Off) contrast ratio with the same preset and Power Consumption mode active was 4,338:1. In HDR display mode with the Digital Cinema picture preset and High Power Consumption, High Speed Auto Iris, and default mid-point (7) HDR10 settings active, Full-on/full-off contrast ratio measured 0.08 nits black and 23.05 nits (24 ft-L) peak white for 1,153:1."

Now I am not questioning the reviews intent or integrity. It is a very well written and thoughtful review. BUT... would't you think they could have mentioned something in the main review. Something like... " The contrast is good in SDR but in HDR it drops to the levels of competing DLPs. It kinda defeats the term Ultra Black. Maybe Epson will have a new firmware update to address this issue in the future"

At first I thought this was just a one off review. Maybe a simple mistake either typo or calibration error. But after several other reviews mentioned that the Benq beats it in blacks in some scenes I realized its a serious issue.

Kinda surprised this thread doesn't have some custom setting to off set this issue. If there are some that I have missed please point me in that direction!. I am still leaning the 5050 way. Just looking for a simple way to combat this issue.
Yes. I calibrated Dynamic for HDR as follows (including gamma)

- minimised the green / blue hue using the gain controls but still left a blue / green push that is not visually noticeable above 50% stimulus so brightness is not compromised.
- I adjusted the 7-point greyscale controls below 50% stimulus to be on D65 exactly as colour deviation is more noticeable below 50%
- did CMS
- custom gamma with -4 on the second gamma control from the bottom. This is what visually matched to a properly calibrated LG OLED most closely
- brightness -1 as most HDR masters have a slightly lifted black floor! Alternative is to use the bottom gamma control as -1.

This is my best HDR-like calibration. Sure it may not be as accurate as calibrating Natural or Digital Cinema but the errors are not visible and it delivers the most brightness. For Xbox HDR gaming especially, it looks awesome!

I found Digital Cinema gamma to be a lot more in line with what’s expected but you can still bring the mentioned gamma control to -1 or -2!!

Natural picture mode HDR calibration would need around -2.

Since the black floor is lifted on lots of HDR movies, you can either change brightness to -1 or better yet use the bottom gamma control. You can experiment.

I have let Epson know about the lifted low-end gamma in HDR and I’m sure the guys who have did those reviews also did. I’m unsure why they didn’t use the custom gamma controls, though. They’d have to say. 🙂

I think lots of calibrators really wanna stick to getting perfect charts but I find that’s not always what delivers the best picture that visually aligns to the original intent. Definitely much more true for HDR where we can’t have pretty charts and it’s a compromise. The question is where will you compromise. 😉
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post #4005 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
This screenshot is build 86

The min target/real display peak nits: "79" should be "99" on my setup and this number will be different for you depending on your display brightness (take your fc or fl number and multiply it by 3.43 to get your nits value).
Thank you very much, tried it here is my first results:
Both pictures on digital cinema mode, both with madvr tone mapping.

With HDR enabled in Windows & projector:



With HDR disabled:

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post #4006 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameer View Post
Thank you very much, tried it here is my first results:

Both pictures on digital cinema mode, both with madvr tone mapping.



With HDR enabled in Windows & projector:







With HDR disabled:



Which image do you prefer?

On my phone it looks like "disabled" looks better.

Disabled looks like it has more depth and enabled is more flat looking (again, on my phone lol).

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #4007 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rollon1980 View Post
Yes. I calibrated Dynamic for HDR as follows (including gamma)

- minimised the green / blue hue using the gain controls but still left a blue / green push that is not visually noticeable above 50% stimulus so brightness is not compromised.
- I adjusted the 7-point greyscale controls below 50% stimulus to be on D65 exactly as colour deviation is more noticeable below 50%
- did CMS
- custom gamma with -4 on the second gamma control from the bottom. This is what visually matched to a properly calibrated LG OLED most closely
- brightness -1 as most HDR masters have a slightly lifted black floor! Alternative is to use the bottom gamma control as -1.

This is my best HDR-like calibration. Sure it may not be as accurate as calibrating Natural or Digital Cinema but the errors are not visible and it delivers the most brightness. For Xbox HDR gaming especially, it looks awesome!

I found Digital Cinema gamma to be a lot more in line with what’s expected but you can still bring the mentioned gamma control to -1 or -2!!

Natural picture mode HDR calibration would need around -2.

Since the black floor is lifted on lots of HDR movies, you can either change brightness to -1 or better yet use the bottom gamma control. You can experiment.

I have let Epson know about the lifted low-end gamma in HDR and I’m sure the guys who have did those reviews also did. I’m unsure why they didn’t use the custom gamma controls, though. They’d have to say. 🙂

I think lots of calibrators really wanna stick to getting perfect charts but I find that’s not always what delivers the best picture that visually aligns to the original intent. Definitely much more true for HDR where we can’t have pretty charts and it’s a compromise. The question is where will you compromise. 😉

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Great post.

So you feel like your not loosing much black floor while in HDR with a simple -1 gamma change?

I have heard alot of HDR disks have raised black floors. Totally don't understand what they are doing. The whole freaking point is to have the darkest blacks and brightest highlights. We don't need to go backwards!

How badly does your Oled smoke your 5050 in HDR performance. I understand the differences. Just curious to hear your thoughts as you obviously enjoy you home theater.
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post #4008 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rollon1980 View Post
Yes. I calibrated Dynamic for HDR as follows (including gamma)



This is my best HDR-like calibration. Sure it may not be as accurate as calibrating Natural or Digital Cinema but the errors are not visible and it delivers the most brightness. For Xbox HDR gaming especially, it looks awesome!
Can you please share your exact settings, I used the calibration data on projectorreviews.com (on digital cinema & natural) and it does make difference with me (positively)
It will be interesting to check your take on Dynamic mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Which image do you prefer?

On my phone it looks like "disabled" looks better.

Disabled looks like it has more depth and enabled is more flat looking (again, on my phone lol).

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Yes, I like the disabled more, it really make difference especially in dark scenes, HDR mode -as you said- more flat!
Also the HDR highlights between dark and bright spots is really remarkable and has its wow factor with madvr + disabled HDR on windows/projector.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameer View Post
Can you please share your exact settings, I used the calibration data on projectorreviews.com (on digital cinema & natural) and it does make difference with me (positively)

It will be interesting to check your take on Dynamic mode.







Yes, I like the disabled more, it really make difference especially in dark scenes, HDR mode -as you said- more flat!

Also the HDR highlights between dark and bright spots is really remarkable and has its wow factor with madvr + disabled HDR on windows/projector.







Awesome!

Had you ever used the dtm in madvr before? It makes a huge difference for me, plus being able to run amazing HDR in natural mode and medium lamp is a huge benefit too!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #4010 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Awesome!

Had you ever used the dtm in madvr before? It makes a huge difference for me, plus being able to run amazing HDR in natural mode and medium lamp is a huge benefit too!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
DTM??

Dynamic tone mapping you mean? I thought D stand for device (or dedicated) .. oh!

Is there a guide somewhere for that dtm ?
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post #4011 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:12 PM
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Was wondering how close you are sitting to screen using epson 5050. I’m thinking of using 100” screen at about 9’ 8”to back of couch,so you would be about 9’ from screen. Would I get screen door effect at that distance?
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post #4012 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:15 PM
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Was wondering how close you are sitting to screen using epson 5050. I’m thinking of using 100” screen at about 9’ 8”to back of couch,so you would be about 9’ from screen. Would I get screen door effect at that distance?
You would not. Really have to be 4 ft or closer. Even then most people would not see it.

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post #4013 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:15 PM
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I am setting up a 115 inch 2:35:1 Silver Ticket screen as i mostly watch 4K Ultra HD movies. Can i mount the projector first and achieve the 2:35:1 display with help of lens shift? or Do i need to move projector front or back to achieve the 2:35:1?
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post #4014 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Pfw View Post
Was wondering how close you are sitting to screen using epson 5050. I’️m thinking of using 100” screen at about 9’️ 8”to back of couch,so you would be about 9’️ from screen. Would I get screen door effect at that distance?
Lots will disagree with this. I have an epson 4000 which is similar. The 5050 is supposed to have a slightly improved pixel shift system.

I sit 9-10ft back from a 100in. In light white scenes like clouds or snow I can tell there are pixels there. Your not making out the whole grid or anything but there is a little black in there that shouldn't be.

Not a deal breaker. Still probably about to get a 5050 for the 18ghz and much improved blacks.
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post #4015 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
You would not. Really have to be 4 ft or closer. Even then most people would not see it.

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Thanks for making up my mind
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post #4016 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by gunlife View Post
Lots will disagree with this. I have an epson 4000 which is similar. The 5050 is supposed to have a slightly improved pixel shift system.

I sit 9-10ft back from a 100in. In light white scenes like clouds or snow I can tell there are pixels there. Your not making out the whole grid or anything but there is a little black in there that shouldn't be.

Not a deal breaker. Still probably about to get a 5050 for the 18ghz and much improved blacks.
The pixel fill on the 5050 is much improved over the 4000. The 4000 definitely shares some technology with the 5050 but is an older generation projector. I would be shocked if you can make out any SDE in any scene after you are 4 ft away once you install your 5050.

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post #4017 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by amdar View Post
I am setting up a 115 inch 2:35:1 Silver Ticket screen as i mostly watch 4K Ultra HD movies. Can i mount the projector first and achieve the 2:35:1 display with help of lens shift? or Do i need to move projector front or back to achieve the 2:35:1?


I think you would use the motorized zoom (not lens shift) and lens memory to switch between 2.35 and 16:9. I don’t speak from experience but it’s one of the reasons I’m considering this projector. It seems to be the only one in this price range with the memory presets.


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post #4018 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:40 PM
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DTM??



Dynamic tone mapping you mean? I thought D stand for device (or dedicated) .. oh!



Is there a guide somewhere for that dtm ?
No guide needed, your using it now if you tried that build I mentioned (86). They've actually had dtm for a long while on madvr now. The short answer is every frame gets (dynamic) tone-mapped vs a static amount.

It's really the dynamic part that makes the big difference. Disc players and most pj's are still using static tone-mapping which is mediocre at best (people speak highly of them ~oppo or Panasonic players usually ~ until they see dynamic tone mapping and they're eyes of opened).

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--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #4019 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlife View Post
Lots will disagree with this. I have an epson 4000 which is similar. The 5050 is supposed to have a slightly improved pixel shift system.

I sit 9-10ft back from a 100in. In light white scenes like clouds or snow I can tell there are pixels there. Your not making out the whole grid or anything but there is a little black in there that shouldn't be.

Not a deal breaker. Still probably about to get a 5050 for the 18ghz and much improved blacks.
The pixel fill on the 5050 is much improved over the 4000. The 4000 definitely shares some technology with the 5050 but is an older generation projector. I would be shocked if you can make out any SDE in any scene after you are 4 ft away once you install your 5050.

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Damn dude you trying to sell 2 5050s for epson in one night?
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post #4020 of 5113 Old 10-22-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rollon1980 View Post
Yes. I calibrated Dynamic for HDR as follows (including gamma)

- minimised the green / blue hue using the gain controls but still left a blue / green push that is not visually noticeable above 50% stimulus so brightness is not compromised.
- I adjusted the 7-point greyscale controls below 50% stimulus to be on D65 exactly as colour deviation is more noticeable below 50%
- did CMS
- custom gamma with -4 on the second gamma control from the bottom. This is what visually matched to a properly calibrated LG OLED most closely
- brightness -1 as most HDR masters have a slightly lifted black floor! Alternative is to use the bottom gamma control as -1.

This is my best HDR-like calibration. Sure it may not be as accurate as calibrating Natural or Digital Cinema but the errors are not visible and it delivers the most brightness. For Xbox HDR gaming especially, it looks awesome!

I found Digital Cinema gamma to be a lot more in line with what’️s expected but you can still bring the mentioned gamma control to -1 or -2!!

Natural picture mode HDR calibration would need around -2.

Since the black floor is lifted on lots of HDR movies, you can either change brightness to -1 or better yet use the bottom gamma control. You can experiment.

I have let Epson know about the lifted low-end gamma in HDR and I’️m sure the guys who have did those reviews also did. I’️m unsure why they didn’️t use the custom gamma controls, though. They’️d have to say. 🙂

I think lots of calibrators really wanna stick to getting perfect charts but I find that’️s not always what delivers the best picture that visually aligns to the original intent. Definitely much more true for HDR where we can’️t have pretty charts and it’️s a compromise. The question is where will you compromise. 😉

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Great post.

So you feel like your not loosing much black floor while in HDR with a simple -1 gamma change?

I have heard alot of HDR disks have raised black floors. Totally don't understand what they are doing. The whole freaking point is to have the darkest blacks and brightest highlights. We don't need to go backwards!

How badly does your Oled smoke your 5050 in HDR performance. I understand the differences. Just curious to hear your thoughts as you obviously enjoy you home theater.
That’s ok. You’re welcome!

I just use brightness -1 for HDR (as opposed to mess with the bottom gamma point) and changed the second gamma point from the bottom dependent on picture mode:
-1 for Digital Cinema
-2 for Natural
-3 for Bright Cinema
-4 for Dynamic

However I only really use my Digital Cinema and Dynamic picture modes I calibrated for HDR.

You won’t lose much black detail if any. By default, no disk is mastered to 0nit for black level due to how the HDR10 standard has been written. In fact, if we were following the standard to the letter, we should be cutting any shadow detail that our displays cannot display. Let’s just say the standard is just ludicrous and written in a way that’s impractical and stupid.

There is no comparison to an OLED in pure picture quality but it’s only 65” and my projection is 100”. I find more enjoyment in watching movies at 100” sitting 2.5 meters away than doing it on a 65” OLED.

The only exception is Planet Earth II. Omg, looks amaaaaaaaaaazing on an OLED and needs to be seen there. 😉
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