THE Epson 5050UB/6050UB Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 181 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5401 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Sure, but what I was getting at is that a budget card will run some decent madVR settings and will still provide a superior image to any other tone mapping options out there for the money.
For $149 you can buy the Panasonic DP-UB420 that's on sale at BB, which does an amazing job with tone mapping. Why spend "$500" on a HTPC for tone mapping, when the Panasonic does a great job?

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post #5402 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
For $149 you can buy the Panasonic DP-UB420 that's on sale at BB, which does an amazing job with tone mapping. Why spend "$500" on a HTPC for tone mapping, when the Panasonic does a great job?

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Because madvr analyzes each frame, it's dynamic. On projectors, only the latest generation of JVC can do that. The Panasonic and the 5050UB's DTM is static, takes the one value that is for the entire movie, and tone maps to that. The slider has to be adjusted manually.

Not only does madvr have other processing features, but has other enhancements for the HDR DTM feature, like highlight recovery (similar to added sharpness), shadow recovery, etc. The DTM feature is very customizable. You can even adjust the level of the HDR effect. The Panasonic is nice, but doesn't match up to madvr:


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post #5403 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:44 PM
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I'd run about 4ft of velvet on that ceiling. I'd bet you'll get better contrast, since that white ceiling is reflective. Just wrap some velvet around some 1/8" plywood, making a panel, and pin nail it to the ceiling.

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post #5404 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:47 PM
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Because madvr analyzes each frame, it's dynamic. On projectors, only the latest generation of JVC can do that. The Panasonic and the 5050UB's DTM is static, takes the one value that is for the entire movie, and tone maps to that. The slider has to be adjusted manually.

Not only does madvr have other processing features, but has other enhancements for the HDR DTM feature, like highlight recovery (similar to added sharpness), shadow recovery, etc. The DTM feature is very customizable. You can even adjust the level of the HDR effect. The Panasonic is nice, but doesn't match up to madvr:

I'd love to see a side by side, and see if the naked eye could tell the difference from the seating position. I'd find it hard to believe the naked eye could tell the difference between the Panasonic and madvr.

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post #5405 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:48 PM
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Seems like most of you use auto iris on high speed

But what picture and lamp modes do you use?

Bright Cinema? Digital Cinema? ECO lamp? High lamp?
I use Alaric's settings. Look good to me until I can kidnap a calibrator and haul them to WV.
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post #5406 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I'd love to see a side by side, and see if the naked eye could tell the difference from the seating position. I'd find it hard to believe the naked eye could tell the difference between the Panasonic and madvr.

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It's not a sharpness situation where you have to be close enough to see it. You can be 30ft away from an 100" screen and clearly see it.
Just ask anyone who has seen static DTM vs dynamic.

I don't have a Panasonic UB, so I'm not sure who can make the comparison.
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post #5407 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
For $149 you can buy the Panasonic DP-UB420 that's on sale at BB, which does an amazing job with tone mapping. Why spend "$500" on a HTPC for tone mapping, when the Panasonic does a great job?

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@noob00224 Gave the better answer, so I'll just summarize with - that panasonic player is junk compared to what madVR does...
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post #5408 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I'd love to see a side by side, and see if the naked eye could tell the difference from the seating position. I'd find it hard to believe the naked eye could tell the difference between the Panasonic and madvr.

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JVC introduced Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM) in the latest firmware for its NX series of projectors. It's been compared by several of us with the static tone mapping the Panasonic uses and it isn't close. Dynamic is far better. MadVR with a good graphics card will even exceed what the JVC solution offers.

I own a UB820 and an NX7, no question that dynamic produces a much better picture. HDR optimizer is off in my setup.
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post #5409 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:04 PM
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I'm with biglen on this one, I just didn't spend all this money on the Epson 5050ub to build a HTPC to customize the videos every time I want to watch a movie. I need a simple solution. Set it and forget and put my movie in the player and push play. I'm sure with madvr, you can get some amazing picture but to my eye, I think Epson 5050ub is good enough for me. If I wanted to do that, I would have gotten a 5040ub or or older JVC and used madvr to push all my video content. I just purchased the Panasonic UB420 so that I can set HDR content to SDR with BT2020 and hopefully that will be good enough for me.
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post #5410 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
@noob00224 Gave the better answer, so I'll just summarize with - that panasonic player is junk compared to what madVR does...
The Panasonic player is good for what it does: static tone mapping of HDR. MadVR does a lot more to the video signal. The Dynamic Tone Mapping on the madVR noticeably improves the HDR. madVR Envy from the reviews of today's demonstration at ISE 2020 just took things to a ridiculously insane level for HDR performance.

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post #5411 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:12 PM
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I'm with biglen on this one, I just didn't spend all this money on the Epson 5050ub to build a HTPC to customize the videos every time I want to watch a movie. I need a simple solution. Set it and forget and put my movie in the player and push play. I'm sure with madvr, you can get some amazing picture but to my eye, I think Epson 5050ub is good enough for me. If I wanted to do that, I would have gotten a 5040ub or or older JVC and used madvr to push all my video content. I just purchased the Panasonic UB420 so that I can set HDR content to SDR with BT2020 and hopefully that will be good enough for me.
You don't need to customize every movie, just set it once. Madvr can be automated in a lot of ways, not just HDR DTM.

It's like saying you just want to stick to 1080p SDR dual audio channel. Not saying you can't be happy with just that.
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post #5412 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:13 PM
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I'm with biglen on this one, I just didn't spend all this money on the Epson 5050ub to build a HTPC to customize the videos every time I want to watch a movie. I need a simple solution. Set it and forget and put my movie in the player and push play. I'm sure with madvr, you can get some amazing picture but to my eye, I think Epson 5050ub is good enough for me. If I wanted to do that, I would have gotten a 5040ub or or older JVC and used madvr to push all my video content. I just purchased the Panasonic UB420 so that I can set HDR content to SDR with BT2020 and hopefully that will be good enough for me.
I completely get not wanting to deal with building and maintaining a HTPC (and getting your content to play properly on it). I'm just saying that as someone who's seen both, there is zero question that dynamic is much better.

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post #5413 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:36 PM
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The Panasonic player is good for what it does: static tone mapping of HDR. MadVR does a lot more to the video signal. The Dynamic Tone Mapping on the madVR noticeably improves the HDR. madVR Envy from the reviews of today's demonstration at ISE 2020 just took things to a ridiculously insane level for HDR performance.

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Was that from the Pro or the commoner Envy? For what either of them cost it had better deliver a pretty spectacular visual experience.
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post #5414 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:54 PM
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I'm with biglen on this one, I just didn't spend all this money on the Epson 5050ub to build a HTPC to customize the videos every time I want to watch a movie. I need a simple solution. Set it and forget and put my movie in the player and push play. I'm sure with madvr, you can get some amazing picture but to my eye, I think Epson 5050ub is good enough for me. If I wanted to do that, I would have gotten a 5040ub or or older JVC and used madvr to push all my video content. I just purchased the Panasonic UB420 so that I can set HDR content to SDR with BT2020 and hopefully that will be good enough for me.
Bottom line, projectors are not yet ready for HDR prime time...resulting in two schools of thoughts for performance...those who seek to maximize performance and those who desire acceptable plug and play performance. It appears Madvr is currently the acknowledged performance leader but comes at a cost of effort and $$$. At this point in my life, I’m in the camp of plug and play and can wait a generation or two until projectors can offer a built in complete solution for HDR.
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post #5415 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
JVC introduced Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM) in the latest firmware for its NX series of projectors. It's been compared by several of us with the static tone mapping the Panasonic uses and it isn't close. Dynamic is far better. MadVR with a good graphics card will even exceed what the JVC solution offers.

I own a UB820 and an NX7, no question that dynamic produces a much better picture. HDR optimizer is off in my setup.
I don't need to worry about it just yet as I STILL haven't upgraded to 4K, but just what kind of graphics card are we talking about here? I have a GeForce GTX 970 in my current rig. Time to upgrade?

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post #5416 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 01:58 PM
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Bottom line, projectors are not yet ready for HDR prime time...resulting in two schools of thoughts for performance...those who seek to maximize performance and those who desire acceptable plug and play performance. It appears Madvr is currently the acknowledged performance leader but comes at a cost of effort and $$$. At this point in my life, I’m in the camp of plug and play and can wait a generation or two until projectors can offer a built in complete solution for HDR.
I agree. If I had an old PC laying around, and just needed to throw a good Video Card in it for MadVR, I'd probably give it a shot.

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post #5417 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 02:00 PM
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Bottom line, projectors are not yet ready for HDR prime time...resulting in two schools of thoughts for performance...those who seek to maximize performance and those who desire acceptable plug and play performance. It appears Madvr is currently the acknowledged performance leader but comes at a cost of effort and $$$. At this point in my life, I’m in the camp of plug and play and can wait a generation or two until projectors can offer a built in complete solution for HDR.


For me, the complication lies in that they’ve tied HDR and WCG together. I understand projectors can’t really do HDR, but they can do WCG and I wish to benefit from that.

It just seems unnecessarily difficult to decouple those two unrelated things.


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Bottom line, projectors are not yet ready for HDR prime time...resulting in two schools of thoughts for performance...those who seek to maximize performance and those who desire acceptable plug and play performance. It appears Madvr is currently the acknowledged performance leader but comes at a cost of effort and $$$. At this point in my life, I’m in the camp of plug and play and can wait a generation or two until projectors can offer a built in complete solution for HDR.
While that holds true for most HT projectors, the JVC NX lineup and those using a Lumagen have a got a very plug and play solution. Granted these options aren't inexpensive (the NX5 does street close to the 6050 though).

If I had to guess you'll see other manufacturers try to emulate what JVC has done in future products. Especially Sony and Epson. You won't see MadVR level performance, but you'll see something much better than static tone mapping and very plug and play.
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I don't need to worry about it just yet as I STILL haven't upgraded to 4K, but just what kind of graphics card are we talking about here? I have a GeForce GTX 970 in my current rig. Time to upgrade?
You don't need 4K for madvr HDR DTM. Works great with 1080p SDR.

That card might work with just the DTM.
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post #5420 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 02:37 PM
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While that holds true for most HT projectors, the JVC NX lineup and those using a Lumagen have a got a very plug and play solution. Granted these options aren't inexpensive (the NX5 does street close to the 6050 though).

If I had to guess you'll see other manufacturers try to emulate what JVC has done in future products. Especially Sony and Epson. You won't see MadVR level performance, but you'll see something much better than static tone mapping and very plug and play.
Agreed...that’s what I’m waiting for. When I buy a car, I expect to turn the key, step on the gas, and go...buying/installing after market items to improve performance is no longer desirable for me.
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Was that from the Pro or the commoner Envy? For what either of them cost it had better deliver a pretty spectacular visual experience.
It was the pro. Yes it is also an insane price but several industry professionals who are notoriously critical of high end equipment could not pick their jaws up off the floor. They were prepared not to be amazed as they put because they already own Lumagen Radiance Pro and they said the madVR Envy blew the Lumagen out of the water and the room was a white reflective mess. They were still blown away.

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Hey Guys. I am really new to home theater and have some questions. Not really sure who to ask so thought I would post here. Wife and I just bought our first house. We have a media room that is 19.7x20.9. Had the walls painted a dark color and we want to put in a projector. Did some research and it appears that Epson 5050 is perfect for us. The room does have some windows but really plan to use it only at night and will get some black out curtains to help. Will primarily use it for watching sports, movies, and occasionally some gaming. Was planning on getting a 135 ALR screen to help with the windows and also when we do watch sports there will be some lights on. First off wanted to make sure that I am not doing anything stupid to begin with by getting this projector and this ALR screen. Also the way the roof is situated I wanted to mount the projector to the wall. Found a monoprice mount that seemed good and wanted to see if anyone had any reviews on it or any other recommendations? Also want to hide the wires so will need a good length for them. Guessing around 40 ft. Heard I need to get optical hdmi at htat length? Is that correct or any recs on wires? Also as I said no past history with projectors. Are the settings easy to figure out to get the optimal settings? Reading this thread kind of has me overwhelmed about it. Any tips or help would be much appreciated.
You really need to do your homework as it looks like you can have a really nice room there. There are many misconceptions for first time projector owners. First if you have the correct lighting and treat the room for reflections you can have a lot of ambient task lighting for sports viewing without affecting the picture. If you have uncontrolled ambient light and a reflective room the picture will be washed out regardless of the type of screen. You also need to put your AV components close to the projector not down front with the screen. The only long wire runs should be inexpensive speaker wire for your 3 front speakers. There are a lot of very inexpensive things you can do that will save you tons of $ on Band-Aids like an ALR screen. Post in the theater build section as there are many very talented people there to help.

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I just noticed Frame Interpolation was grayed out. My Xfinity box is set to 1080p60, the Epson Image Processing is Fine, and EDID is Expanded. What am I missing here?

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I just noticed Frame Interpolation was grayed out. My Xfinity box is set to 1080p60, the Epson Image Processing is Fine, and EDID is Expanded. What am I missing here?

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It only works for 1080p24


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As far as MadVR goes I am using just a 1050ti card and still get good results. HTPC/MadVR is only limited to locally saved video so it does have considerable limitations if your not ripping your disks. MadVR Envey at a MSRP of $10k for pro and $5.5K for basic is really way out of the price range for us struggling pay check to pay check making the UB420/UB820 a very good option.
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As far as MadVR goes I am using just a 1050ti card and still get good results. HTPC/MadVR is only limited to locally saved video so it does have considerable limitations if your not ripping your disks. MadVR Envey at a MSRP of $10k for pro and $5.5K for basic is really way out of the price range for us struggling pay check to pay check making the UB420/UB820 a very good option.


At that absurd price I’d rather buy a lumagen radiance pro and get a lot more flexibility.


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post #5427 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ivanhoek View Post
It only works for 1080p24


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Hmmm, I had it working before when I had it set to 1080p60. My Xfinity box doesn't even have a choice for 1080p24.

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post #5428 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
Hmmm, I had it working before when I had it set to 1080p60. My Xfinity box doesn't even have a choice for 1080p24.

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https://epson.com/faq/SPT_V11H930020...-8796127471692



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post #5429 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ivanhoek View Post
That's obviously not true. I now have it working, with 1080p60. I had to turn off 4k Enhancement.

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post #5430 of 7768 Old 02-11-2020, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
That's obviously not true. I now have it working, with 1080p60. I had to turn off 4k Enhancement.

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Good. Perhaps they never thought anyone would turn 4K enhancement off?

Anyway, good to know it works.


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