THE Epson 5050UB/6050UB Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 184 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5491 of 5512 Old 02-14-2020, 08:22 PM
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Hi all. So I just pushed the button on a 5050 and I'm super stoked (gonna be a long 5 days of shipping wait!). Except I JUST painted my white ceiling with a dark brown matte and I’m so sad about the big white eyesore it’s going to be. I just couldn’t stomach the extra $1000 to go to the 6050 just for the color (and a bulb I guess....I already have a good Chief mount).
Anyway I’m just daydreaming about ways to blacken it. I tried Googling parts to see if I could just buy the outer plastic pieces but everything ended up at ‘call an Epson dealer’
Some kind of black wrap? (would be such a pain with all those vents to cut out)
Hand paint it? Seems so wrong on a new $3500 projector (I’m in Canada, eh).
Learn to never look at it?
Thoughts? I really need to kill the next 5 days 😜
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post #5492 of 5512 Old 02-14-2020, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck69 View Post
Hi all. So I just pushed the button on a 5050 and I'm super stoked (gonna be a long 5 days of shipping wait!). Except I JUST painted my white ceiling with a dark brown matte and I’m so sad about the big white eyesore it’s going to be. I just couldn’t stomach the extra $1000 to go to the 6050 just for the color (and a bulb I guess....I already have a good Chief mount).
Anyway I’m just daydreaming about ways to blacken it. I tried Googling parts to see if I could just buy the outer plastic pieces but everything ended up at ‘call an Epson dealer’
Some kind of black wrap? (would be such a pain with all those vents to cut out)
Hand paint it? Seems so wrong on a new $3500 projector (I’m in Canada, eh).
Learn to never look at it?
Thoughts? I really need to kill the next 5 days 😜
Plastidip it black. You can then always peel the coating off later if you need to very easily.

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Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 2 VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
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post #5493 of 5512 Old 02-14-2020, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck69 View Post
Hi all. So I just pushed the button on a 5050 and I'm super stoked (gonna be a long 5 days of shipping wait!). Except I JUST painted my white ceiling with a dark brown matte and I’m so sad about the big white eyesore it’s going to be. I just couldn’t stomach the extra $1000 to go to the 6050 just for the color (and a bulb I guess....I already have a good Chief mount).
Anyway I’m just daydreaming about ways to blacken it. I tried Googling parts to see if I could just buy the outer plastic pieces but everything ended up at ‘call an Epson dealer’
Some kind of black wrap? (would be such a pain with all those vents to cut out)
Hand paint it? Seems so wrong on a new $3500 projector (I’m in Canada, eh).
Learn to never look at it?
Thoughts? I really need to kill the next 5 days 😜


I recommend looking at the screen instead... I have the same setup with all black theater etc and I find that I never look at the projector


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post #5494 of 5512 Old 02-15-2020, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck69 View Post
Hi all. So I just pushed the button on a 5050 and I'm super stoked (gonna be a long 5 days of shipping wait!). Except I JUST painted my white ceiling with a dark brown matte and I’m so sad about the big white eyesore it’s going to be. I just couldn’t stomach the extra $1000 to go to the 6050 just for the color (and a bulb I guess....I already have a good Chief mount).
Anyway I’m just daydreaming about ways to blacken it. I tried Googling parts to see if I could just buy the outer plastic pieces but everything ended up at ‘call an Epson dealer’
Some kind of black wrap? (would be such a pain with all those vents to cut out)
Hand paint it? Seems so wrong on a new $3500 projector (I’m in Canada, eh).
Learn to never look at it?
Thoughts? I really need to kill the next 5 days 😜
I would not recommend doing any type of coating that gives off chemicals even if you can't smell them. Besides the health risk you can and will damage the lens system and LCD panel when the chemicals in the coating are heated by the projector and then sucked into the projector. Build a hush box and paint it black. Kills the noise pollution and gets rid of the white eyesore.

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post #5495 of 5512 Old 02-15-2020, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck69 View Post
Hi all. So I just pushed the button on a 5050 and I'm super stoked (gonna be a long 5 days of shipping wait!). Except I JUST painted my white ceiling with a dark brown matte and I’m so sad about the big white eyesore it’s going to be. I just couldn’t stomach the extra $1000 to go to the 6050 just for the color (and a bulb I guess....I already have a good Chief mount).
Anyway I’m just daydreaming about ways to blacken it. I tried Googling parts to see if I could just buy the outer plastic pieces but everything ended up at ‘call an Epson dealer’
Some kind of black wrap? (would be such a pain with all those vents to cut out)
Hand paint it? Seems so wrong on a new $3500 projector (I’m in Canada, eh).
Learn to never look at it?
Thoughts? I really need to kill the next 5 days 😜
I realize that there are a few among us who are extremely OCD about the PJ’s case color...but I’m in the @ivanhoek camp. The important aspect of this hobby is in front of you rather than above you. Once immersed in a good movie in a darkened room, the PJ disappears...for the majority of us. The truly OCD would only find it distracting with a movie playing or no movie playing and the lights on. If this is the case (no pun intended), then perhaps make an appointment with a psychoanalyst.. Kidding aside, there have been a couple of owners here who have found solutions...either with a case wrapping material or a hush box approach...painting is not advisable for a myriad of reasons. In any case, good luck with your search for a solution to your liking!

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

Last edited by gene4ht; 02-15-2020 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #5496 of 5512 Old 02-15-2020, 05:23 PM
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Question for Epson 6050UB and 5050UB owners, especially those who own a STEWART (or any other ALR) screen with approximately 1.2, 1.3 gain.

I'm seriously thinking of purchasing a new Epson 4K 6050UB to replace my "long in the tooth" SONY VPL-VW60 1080p projector. I just have one area of concern.

I have a 100" 16/9 STEWART Firehawk SST retractable tab-tensioned screen with a 1.2 gain.
My current ceiling mounted projector lens throw is approximately 12 1/2 feet from the screen.

My question is this: because the Epson 6050UB is so much brighter than my current projector will I experience "hot spotting"? Or, based upon your experience does the STEWART screen do a great job in preventing "hot spotting".

Any response/information would be greatly appreciated.
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post #5497 of 5512 Old 02-15-2020, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jmouse007 View Post
Question for Epson 6050UB and 5050UB owners, especially those who own a STEWART (or any other ALR) screen with approximately 1.2, 1.3 gain.



I'm seriously thinking of purchasing a new Epson 4K 6050UB to replace my "long in the tooth" SONY VPL-VW60 1080p projector. I just have one area of concern.



I have a 100" 16/9 STEWART Firehawk SST retractable tab-tensioned screen with a 1.2 gain.

My current ceiling mounted projector lens throw is approximately 12 1/2 feet from the screen.



My question is this: because the Epson 6050UB is so much brighter than my current projector will I experience "hot spotting"? Or, based upon your experience does the STEWART screen do a great job in preventing "hot spotting".



Any response/information would be greatly appreciated.


You can always use a lower bulb mode (such as eco) and/or close the iris until you get the brightness you want/need.


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post #5498 of 5512 Old 02-15-2020, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
How many people have 145 inch plus screen.
What aspic ratio
How much gain

Can you share your setup
How dose HDR look / perform on a screen this size.
150"
16:9
1.1 gain

Running a 5040 in medium lamp with a htpc and MadVR. HDR looks amazing and very bright thanks to madvr. Without madVR, I would caution against going with a big screen for hdr though; it'll be very dim and you'll definitely have to run high lamp (noisy!).

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What htpc set do you have.

Your madvr setup.
How can you have hdr in low lamp.
I thought you needed 30ft lumens for hdr
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What htpc set do you have.

Your madvr setup.
How can you have hdr in low lamp.
I thought you needed 30ft lumens for hdr
Budget htpc I pieced together that's built around a pc that is probably 5-6 years old. It has a amd cpu and then I added a ssd HD, bigger psu and a 1060 6gb gpu.

I run medium lamp and get about 80 nits on my 150" display (plenty for MADVR to make the magic happen). I see a bit over 100 nits in high lamp, but I don't use it as I can't stand that mini jet engine blowing over head.

30ft lumens is a sufficient (just barely imo) light level for hdr if your running without madVR.

MadVR changes everything about how to make the most out of hdr on low lumen displays. It's worth learning about it if you want a crazy good video experience on the big screen!

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post #5500 of 5512 Old 02-15-2020, 07:31 PM
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I need a new projector now.

At this point, should I buy a 5050UB or a 6050UB?

Both are nearly a year old and my get updated or repriced in the fast moving marketplace.

Is the 5050UB "good enough"?

Is the 6050UB overpriced by comparison?

Thanks in advance.

Murray Kerdman
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post #5501 of 5512 Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM
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have been lovin' my 6050ub + htpc setup but recently decided to play around with different hardware and software settings / combos just to see if it was possible to get even better performance and image quality, it's been fun and educational to say the least... my equipment includes the 6050ub, htpc, radiance pro, vertex, cx-a5100 avr and i've been experimenting with quite a few different software players and filters as well.

all of that said, i'm hoping that someone can explain exactly how the 6050ub handles 4k (3840 x 2160) video files given the pj's 1920 x 1080 (1920 x 1080 x 2) native resolution? the pj can of course accept 3840 x 2160 signals but what does it do with that signal? downscale it to 1920 x 1080 so that it can apply its 4k enhancement? thanks!
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post #5502 of 5512 Old Yesterday, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by aeneas01 View Post
I'm hoping that someone can explain exactly how the 6050ub handles 4k (3840 x 2160) video files given the pj's 1920 x 1080 (1920 x 1080 x 2) native resolution? the pj can of course accept 3840 x 2160 signals but what does it do with that signal? downscale it to 1920 x 1080 so that it can apply its 4k enhancement? thanks!
Is uses the full 3840 x 2160 (8M pixels) worth of information to choose the best colors to render each of the two shifted 1920 x 1080 frames (4M pixels) on the screen. It does NOT first downscale to 2M pixels and then upscale (with 4k enhancement) to 4M pixels. You'll notice that "4k Enhancement" is only active and available to be turned on if you feed it a 1080p signal. If you feed it a 4k signal the option is off and disabled.

If the source is a true 4k (not upscaled source like a lot of movies with special effects that themselves are only mastered at 2-4M pixels and then upscaled since true 8M pixel CGI is far too expensive yet) then you'll notice an improvement in apparent sharpness of the image vs downscaling it first to 1920 x 1080 outside of the projector and letting the projector's 4k enhancement fill in (i.e. "guess") 4M pixels from only 2M source pixels. So, the more source pixels you send to it the better the picture can be. You may not notice a difference from your viewing distance, and depending on the source there may also be very little difference in picture. But in theory, feeding it a full real 8M pixels worth of information from a source that has never been upscaled should give the projector more / better information to work with and produce a better image.

If you watch a lot of movies with special effects, there will be very little to no difference in picture between a true 4k display (8M pixel display) and an Epson pixel shifter (4M pixels) because the source is likely only a 2M or 4M pixels source post-CGI and then upscaled to 4k / 8M pixels on the media you have (or in the data file you are streaming from).

Finally, most of what you use to determine picture quality has little to do with the amount of pixels on the screen though (the resolution). The camera itself, the color space (SDR / REC.709 vs HDR / BT.2020), focus and aperture settings of the original camera, contrast and black levels, colors and color accuracy, greyscale and greyscale accuracy, and brightness (and especially brightness), as well as any image processing that went into the source and that are processed by the equipment in your signal path all have a much higher impact on perceived picture quality than resolution.

Hope that helps.

-J.C.

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post #5503 of 5512 Old Today, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeneas01 View Post
all of that said, i'm hoping that someone can explain exactly how the 6050ub handles 4k (3840 x 2160) video files given the pj's 1920 x 1080 (1920 x 1080 x 2) native resolution? the pj can of course accept 3840 x 2160 signals but what does it do with that signal? downscale it to 1920 x 1080 so that it can apply its 4k enhancement? thanks!


Hope this explains how proper 4K signals are received, converted and then projected onto the screen

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@Luminated67 ,

Does that describe the "all the pixels on the screen at once" with a 4k panel versus pixel shifting? So pixel shifting does display the entire 4k image, just not at the same time but it does show each pixel?

Thanks

Grady
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post #5505 of 5512 Old Today, 09:01 AM
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@Luminated67 ,

Does that describe the "all the pixels on the screen at once" with a 4k panel versus pixel shifting? So pixel shifting does display the entire 4k image, just not at the same time but it does show each pixel?

Thanks
4K pixel-shifting shows half of a complete 4k image. 1920x1080x2 = 4 million pixels. 3840x2160 = 8 million pixels.
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post #5506 of 5512 Old Today, 09:31 AM
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4K pixel-shifting shows half of a complete 4k image. 1920x1080x2 = 4 million pixels. 3840x2160 = 8 million pixels.
This is correct, from what I can make out it creates two individual 1080p images and shifts one the half a pixel were as with a 1080p signal it creates two identical images and shifts it the half pixel. This is why a good 4K signal away looks that bit better.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by plain fan View Post
@Luminated67 ,

Does that describe the "all the pixels on the screen at once" with a 4k panel versus pixel shifting? So pixel shifting does display the entire 4k image, just not at the same time but it does show each pixel?

Thanks
There are 8M pixels in a 4k image. The Epson displays 4M pixels (two 2M pixels images shifted 50% of a pixel up and right from each other) interpolated from the 8M pixels available. So, half the available pixels. From anything farther away than 50% of the screen diagonal, you most likely won't see a difference.

Also, with source material with special effects where the CGI was done at 2M or 4M pixels (most CGI), you also won't see much of a difference since there is only 2M or 4M pixels worth of real information in the 8M pixel frame given to the Epson.

Main: Marantz AV8805, 5x Behringer NX4-6000, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.6+2: DefTech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, M&K MX-125. Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3070, LG E8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 5.1.4: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, 3x Marantz MA700U, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
This is correct, from what I can make out it creates two individual 1080p images and shifts one the half a pixel were as with a 1080p signal it creates two identical images and shifts it the half pixel. This is why a good 4K signal away looks that bit better.
That's the way I understand it. Each 1080p image is unique and derived from the original 4k image with pixel-shifting.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete ramberg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
This is correct, from what I can make out it creates two individual 1080p images and shifts one the half a pixel were as with a 1080p signal it creates two identical images and shifts it the half pixel. This is why a good 4K signal away looks that bit better.
That's the way I understand it. Each 1080p image is unique and derived from the original 4k image with pixel-shifting.
Whether the source is 1080p or 4k, the two individual frames created are unique (never identical unless you are displaying a solid color frame).

With a 1080p signal, it has to "make up" or "guess" the second frame (this is the "4k enhancement" process), and it can look better or worse than the original 1080p signal, but generally better.

With a 4k signal it uses the information in the signal to "derive" the second frame, and thus is more accurate since the information is not "made up". This almost always looks better than a downconversion to 1080p.

Main: Marantz AV8805, 5x Behringer NX4-6000, Epson 6050UB, Stewart Greyhawk 120", LG C8 65", DISH H3, Panasonic UB820, ATV4k, FTV4k, 7.2.6+2: DefTech BP2000, CLR2000, Di 5.5BPS, UIW BPZ/A, Di 8R, M&K MX-125. Bedroom: Yamaha RX-A3070, LG E8 55", DISH 4k Joey, FTV4k, 5.1.4: DT RCS II, RSS II, IW Sub Ref. Basement: Yamaha RX-A3040, 3x Marantz MA700U, Panasonic PT-AE8000U, Panasonic P65VT50, 6.1: DT BP2000, CLR2000, Di 6.5R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2 View Post
Whether the source is 1080p or 4k, the two individual frames created are unique (never identical unless you are displaying a solid color frame).

With a 1080p signal, it has to "make up" or "guess" the second frame (this is the "4k enhancement" process), and it can look better or worse than the original 1080p signal, but generally better.

With a 4k signal it uses the information in the signal to "derive" the second frame, and thus is more accurate since the information is not "made up". This almost always looks better than a downconversion to 1080p.

Is it your understanding that upscaling a native 1080p images uses interpolation of the original 1080p image to create the second (rather than frame doubling)?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post


Hope this explains how proper 4K signals are received, converted and then projected onto the screen
so the 6050ub "splits" the 3840 x 2160 image into two 1920 x 1080 frames and then shifts them to produce the 4k image as opposed to passing along the 3840 x 2160 image? how would the same diagram look with a 1080p image as the source?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2
There are 8M pixels in a 4k image. The Epson displays 4M pixels (two 2M pixels images shifted 50% of a pixel up and right from each other) interpolated from the 8M pixels available. So, half the available pixels. From anything farther away than 50% of the screen diagonal, you most likely won't see a difference.
so for a 170" (diagonal) screen (148" x 83"), anything farther away than 7' it would be tough to see the difference? i ask because that's what i've found as well - does anyone sit within 7' of a 170" screen? seems like that would be very fatiguing, at least.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jch2
Finally, most of what you use to determine picture quality has little to do with the amount of pixels on the screen though (the resolution). The camera itself, the color space (SDR / REC.709 vs HDR / BT.2020), focus and aperture settings of the original camera, contrast and black levels, colors and color accuracy, greyscale and greyscale accuracy, and brightness (and especially brightness), as well as any image processing that went into the source and that are processed by the equipment in your signal path all have a much higher impact on perceived picture quality than resolution.
first, thanks for the very detailed and clearly put explanation in your previous post, very helpful indeed... re the above, i have to agree 100%, at least in my experience.
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Originally Posted by aeneas01 View Post
so the 6050ub "splits" the 3840 x 2160 image into two 1920 x 1080 frames and then shifts them to produce the 4k image as opposed to passing along the 3840 x 2160 image? how would the same diagram look with a 1080p image as the source?




so for a 170" (diagonal) screen (148" x 83"), anything farther away than 7' it would be tough to see the difference? i ask because that's what i've found as well - does anyone sit within 7' of a 170" screen? seems like that would be very fatiguing, at least.



first, thanks for the very detailed and clearly put explanation in your previous post, very helpful indeed... re the above, i have to agree 100%, at least in my experience.
I believe the projector downscales the image from 8m pixels to 4. So downscales to 1080p and then enables the 4K enhancer (?).

markmon1 sits at 7' from an 135" screen, with an JVC RS4500 (native 4K).
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5050 , 5050ub , Epson , frame interpolation , motion smoothing , shieldtv , strdn1080

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