THE Epson 5050UB/6050UB Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #691 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jstillen2 View Post
Somehow, I have Frame Interpolation on Low....AND 4K Enhancement ON. At the same time.
???

I thought this wasn't possible on the 5050? I'm in heaven right now. Seeing this while testing a 1080p bluray version of Prometheus.
I think I read in AVForum that firmware 1.01 enables this, but I might be wrong. I was unable to get 1.01 to install on mine and am going to wait until the next release to try again as I don't really use FI.

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post #692 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Thanks for the link and suggestion.

I do have a question. If it is in the HDMI input of my AVR, why is it only happening with my PC and not my Xbox, PS4, Roku or Panasonic 4K Player?

*Edit* The HDMI Mode you’re referring to from your Manual, I’ve already checked on mine. For a full 4K HDR signal it has to be in HDMI Mode 1, which it is. That’s why I said I tried both modes just to see if it makes a difference. If I switch to Mode 2 then nothing works like it’s supposed to.


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Ok, I thought it was the output rather than input, in that case I’m stumped like yourself.

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post #693 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Ok, I thought it was the output rather than input, in that case I’m stumped like yourself.


Back to the drawing board. There’s some kind of incompatibility between my PC and AVR. Just need to figure out where. Thanks for your help.


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post #694 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Jstillen2 View Post
Somehow, I have Frame Interpolation on Low....AND 4K Enhancement ON. At the same time.
???

I thought this wasn't possible on the 5050? I'm in heaven right now. Seeing this while testing a 1080p bluray version of Prometheus.
When you go into settings and about, what is the firmware version number?
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post #695 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Back to the drawing board. There’s some kind of incompatibility between my PC and AVR. Just need to figure out where. Thanks for your help.

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Sorry if you've already answered this but I didn't go back through the thread. Do you know what the signal is coming out of your computer...ie, 1080, 24hz? Are you sure your computer supports HDMI? It's not unheard of for computers to have a port that isn't fully supported by the internal hardware. Have you tried connecting to PC port (VGA)? Hope something there is helpful.
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post #696 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JonfromCB View Post
Sorry if you've already answered this but I didn't go back through the thread. Do you know what the signal is coming out of your computer...ie, 1080, 24hz? Are you sure your computer supports HDMI? It's not unheard of for computers to have a port that isn't fully supported by the internal hardware. Have you tried connecting to PC port (VGA)? Hope something there is helpful.


Hey no worries. I appreciate the help!

My video card is a 1080Ti and it has two hdmi outputs. I’ve tried both and it sends a 1080p 60 hz signal. If I run the projector directly to my PC, it outputs 4K 60hz and HDR. There’s some issue between the PC and receiver. All my other devices work perfectly hooked up through my receiver and send a 4K 60hz HDR signal.


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post #697 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 10:27 AM
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When you go into settings and about, what is the firmware version number?
I'm running 1.01.
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post #698 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Back to the drawing board. There’s some kind of incompatibility between my PC and AVR. Just need to figure out where. Thanks for your help.


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At least you now know the Epson is OK as is the PC, hopefully someone over on the Amp section of the forum can help you out as I am not that familiar with Yamaha amps.
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post #699 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 10:41 AM
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Has anyone successfully registered their 5050 on Epson's website? For me it won't accept the final character of the s/n and fails.

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post #700 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 10:44 AM
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So after a few solid days playing with my Epson 5050.... I'm getting worried. This is my impression/findings. To start, I have a 118" 16:9 screen in a light controlled theater room with black velvet walls and ceiling. I am coming from a BenQ 2050.

The epson's resolution was very good. The color accuracy and use of HRD is fantastic. I want to like this projector oh, so much. I am using Alaric's calibrated settings. When watching movies, during scenes with movement, I felt like my eyes kept tracking, which causes a mild headache. I never experienced this on my BenQ. The image is all around stunning, except for this ever so faint judder that I cant see unless I'm looking for it, but it begins to give me a headache.

I switched over to my PC and noticed text has an ever so slight blur. I noticed this more when viewing my clock on the bottom right side. Text in the middle was almost perfect, but there was a faint blur. Still gave me a headache. The old BenQ 2050 never had this issue. The text was always crystal clear.

I really really want to like this projector, because on paper it hits everything I am looking for. However, this motion/judder is something I cant see myself living with. I have tried using FI on low, but I am just not a fan of the soap opera effect. I am going to try a few more settings and play a bit more before making a verdict, but I am leaning on returning it. I'll have to take the return restocking fee as a lesson learned.

I am sure this is a great projector for somoene that 1. doesnt notice faint judder, 2. doesnt use a lot of text based applications on a PC.
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post #701 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 10:53 AM
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^That would be a shame, a couple of guys have commented a similar experience on the UK forum who came from DLPs so it might be something you will notice more than others in the same way some see rainbow effect on DLPs and others don’t.

Not sure there’s any settings to lessen this effect for you but mine is getting professionally calibrated on Thursday so will ask the question for you.
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post #702 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
^That would be a shame, a couple of guys have commented a similar experience on the UK forum who came from DLPs so it might be something you will notice more than others in the same way some see rainbow effect on DLPs and others don’t.

Not sure there’s any settings to lessen this effect for you but mine is getting professionally calibrated on Thursday so will ask the question for you.
Much appreciated! I still have hopes (and 9 more days to return).
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post #703 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 11:22 AM
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I am in the same boat as Jstillen2. I am thinking of returning mine as it just doesn't seem to deliver enough improvement over my four year old PF1500 DLP(LED) projector or my high end(in its day) Sharp XV-Z20000. I'm using Alaric's settings on a 106" 1.0 gain screen in a light controlled room with dark walls and rug. The colors are good but I can't seem to get any better blacks/contrast than my current projectors. And I'm not getting the "POP" 3D like image that we all hope for. When there is no signal the black screen is hardly blacker/darker than my DLPs. I've lowered the brightness control and that doesn't seem to help.

I had planned to put in a 114" 2.35:1 screen in addition to my 106" 16x9 but when I zoomed out to that size the clarity broke down a bit. I think the reason is that it a HD wobulated image on top of the larger gaps of LCD vs DLP. If I keep this 5050 I will have to downsize my 114" goal to something slightly smaller.

The handshake is also significantly longer although that is probably due to all the checking for HDCP 2.2 that isn't there for 1.4. If not, then the 5050 is just slower.

All those things considered I would probably keep it if I could get the blacks/contrast and POP to equal what many of the rave reviews have said. Any thoughts or hints on how to do that would be greatly appreciated. My first plasma panel looked similar until a fellow AVS owner recommend changes to two setting parameters. It caused a night and day difference and made that plasma jump out. Hopefully I can find a couple of changes that will do the same to this Epson. I have plenty of time before my trial period is up.
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post #704 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Hey no worries. I appreciate the help!

My video card is a 1080Ti and it has two hdmi outputs. I’ve tried both and it sends a 1080p 60 hz signal. If I run the projector directly to my PC, it outputs 4K 60hz and HDR. There’s some issue between the PC and receiver. All my other devices work perfectly hooked up through my receiver and send a 4K 60hz HDR signal.


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A couple more questions. Is your AVR firmware the latest available? How long is the cable you are using between the computer and your AVR? Have you tried a active cable with Spectra7 chipset, or fiber optic between the computer and AVR? Have you tried a different computer? Good Luck. It's good to know it's not your 5050.
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post #705 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 12:35 PM
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I am in the same boat as Jstillen2. I am thinking of returning mine as it just doesn't seem to deliver enough improvement over my four year old PF1500 DLP(LED) projector or my high end(in its day) Sharp XV-Z20000. I'm using Alaric's settings on a 106" 1.0 gain screen in a light controlled room with dark walls and rug. The colors are good but I can't seem to get any better blacks/contrast than my current projectors. And I'm not getting the "POP" 3D like image that we all hope for. When there is no signal the black screen is hardly blacker/darker than my DLPs. I've lowered the brightness control and that doesn't seem to help.

I had planned to put in a 114" 2.35:1 screen in addition to my 106" 16x9 but when I zoomed out to that size the clarity broke down a bit. I think the reason is that it a HD wobulated image on top of the larger gaps of LCD vs DLP. If I keep this 5050 I will have to downsize my 114" goal to something slightly smaller.

The handshake is also significantly longer although that is probably due to all the checking for HDCP 2.2 that isn't there for 1.4. If not, then the 5050 is just slower.

All those things considered I would probably keep it if I could get the blacks/contrast and POP to equal what many of the rave reviews have said. Any thoughts or hints on how to do that would be greatly appreciated. My first plasma panel looked similar until a fellow AVS owner recommend changes to two setting parameters. It caused a night and day difference and made that plasma jump out. Hopefully I can find a couple of changes that will do the same to this Epson. I have plenty of time before my trial period is up.
If you do, by all means let us know. .

I still have a glimmer of hope, but its fleeting.
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post #706 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 01:17 PM
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A couple more questions. Is your AVR firmware the latest available? How long is the cable you are using between the computer and your AVR? Have you tried a active cable with Spectra7 chipset, or fiber optic between the computer and AVR? Have you tried a different computer? Good Luck. It's good to know it's not your 5050.


Actually I just checked and my firmware is pretty far out of date. I’ll definitely try that next. My cable from projector to AVR is 50 ft. I have not tried one of the active cables or fiber optic. That might be my next step. The thing that just confuses the hell out of me is how my Roku, Xbox, PS4 and 4K Blu Ray Player all Run fine but the pc doesn’t. I have a monitor that is 4K HDR 144hz with G sync and this PC runs just fine with it. And I haven’t tried a different computer. The only other one I have is a surface pro.


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post #707 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 01:45 PM
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If you do, by all means let us know. .

I still have a glimmer of hope, but its fleeting.
I just tried the Cinema preset and it definitely looks better for the first Netflix I watched, Avengers Infinity War. I haven't touched the factory settings yet. Before I was on Natural for SDR and Digital Cinema for HDR.

Some place I saved Alaric's HDR and SDR settings in Mem1 and Mem2 and gave them custom names. However, I haven't been able to find those. Where do I look?

Jack
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post #708 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 02:00 PM
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Actually I just checked and my firmware is pretty far out of date. I’ll definitely try that next. My cable from projector to AVR is 50 ft. I have not tried one of the active cables or fiber optic. That might be my next step. The thing that just confuses the hell out of me is how my Roku, Xbox, PS4 and 4K Blu Ray Player all Run fine but the pc doesn’t. I have a monitor that is 4K HDR 144hz with G sync and this PC runs just fine with it. And I haven’t tried a different computer. The only other one I have is a surface pro.


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If you are getting 4:4:4 12 Bit from your AVR to Projector on your current lead I can’t believe the Fibre HDMI will cure this, though that said I’m very surprised if your current lead isn’t fibre it’s giving you 4:4:4 12 Bit over such a distance as my QED didn’t.

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post #709 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 02:31 PM
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If you are getting 4:4:4 12 Bit from your AVR to Projector on your current lead I can’t believe the Fibre HDMI will cure this, though that said I’m very surprised if your current lead isn’t fibre it’s giving you 4:4:4 12 Bit over such a distance as my QED didn’t.


Well it’s a $100 HDMI Insignia cable from Best Buy so I would hope for that price it does. Lol. So puzzled by this


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post #710 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 03:04 PM
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Well it’s a $100 HDMI Insignia cable from Best Buy so I would hope for that price it does. Lol. So puzzled by this


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The 10 meter QED Reference I was using cost £169 when bought in 2014 and it ain’t capable that’s why I was surprised a 50ft (15m) cable would be able.

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post #711 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 03:16 PM
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The 10 meter QED Reference I was using cost £169 when bought in 2014 and it ain’t capable that’s why I was surprised a 50ft (15m) cable would be able.


Wow! For that price I’m surprised. I’ll let you know if this firmware update works. I posted in the Yamaha forum and home theater pc forum. Hoping someone chimes in.


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post #712 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 07:34 PM
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Actually I just checked and my firmware is pretty far out of date. I’ll definitely try that next. My cable from projector to AVR is 50 ft. I have not tried one of the active cables or fiber optic. That might be my next step. The thing that just confuses the hell out of me is how my Roku, Xbox, PS4 and 4K Blu Ray Player all Run fine but the pc doesn’t. I have a monitor that is 4K HDR 144hz with G sync and this PC runs just fine with it. And I haven’t tried a different computer. The only other one I have is a surface pro.
Apologies if this has already been covered (or I am just misunderstanding your problem) but I would suggest checking exactly what the outputs are for all your different sources, because they could all be 4K60P, but will have very different HDMI bit rates depending on the chroma sub-sampling and bit depth per channel. The fact you have a conventional copper 50 foot HDMI cable working in some instances suggests the data rate must be comparatively low for that cable to work.

For example 4K60P 4:2:0 8 bits per channel (bpc) only requires 8.9 Gbps data rate, 4K60P 4:2:0 10 bits per channel (HDR10, HLG)) requires 11.14 Gbps data rate, while 4K60P 4:2:0 12 bpc (Dolby vision) requires 13.4 Gbps. However, if your PC is outputting 4K60P 4:2:2: 8/10/12 bpc then it requires 17.8 Gbps. If your PC is outputting 4K60P 4:4:4 RGB 8bpc then it also requires 17.8 Gbps, but at 10 or 12 bpc it requires a cable capable of HDMI 2.1 data rates. I've attached a couple of sources for reference.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HDMI-Forum-2.1-November-Release-Presentation-EN Page 44.pdf (411.6 KB, 21 views)
File Type: pdf HDMI Data Rates for 4K HDR Formats - Sheet1.pdf (68.7 KB, 23 views)
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post #713 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 07:42 PM
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Probably also worth posting the attached HDMI survey/testing done by ArrowAV who is usually to be found in the pricier projector threads. I have seen quite a few posts where users having problems comment that HDMI cables must be fine because they used to work with say a HC5040 but don't appreciate that the full 18Gbps HDMI interface on the HC5050 might result in systems attempting to connect at rates that the cables can no longer support.
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post #714 of 5121 Old 04-28-2019, 09:06 PM
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Apologies if this has already been covered (or I am just misunderstanding your problem) but I would suggest checking exactly what the outputs are for all your different sources, because they could all be 4K60P, but will have very different HDMI bit rates depending on the chroma sub-sampling and bit depth per channel. The fact you have a conventional copper 50 foot HDMI cable working in some instances suggests the data rate must be comparatively low for that cable to work.

For example 4K60P 4:2:0 8 bits per channel (bpc) only requires 8.9 Gbps data rate, 4K60P 4:2:0 10 bits per channel (HDR10, HLG)) requires 11.14 Gbps data rate, while 4K60P 4:2:0 12 bpc (Dolby vision) requires 13.4 Gbps. However, if your PC is outputting 4K60P 4:2:2: 8/10/12 bpc then it requires 17.8 Gbps. If your PC is outputting 4K60P 4:4:4 RGB 8bpc then it also requires 17.8 Gbps, but at 10 or 12 bpc it requires a cable capable of HDMI 2.1 data rates. I've attached a couple of sources for reference.


Wow! Awesome info. Thank you so much for sharing this.

The reason I’m leaning towards the AVR and not the cable is because if I take that 50ft HDMI cable, run it straight to my PC, I get native 4K HDR 60hz. Correct me if my understanding of this subject is wrong but does that eliminate the HDMI cable from equation or is it still suspect?


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post #715 of 5121 Old 04-29-2019, 01:48 AM
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Has anyone successfully updated the firmware on this thing? There is a LAN port. If you have it on your network downloading and applying an update from Epson.com should be easy as pie. Is the whole antiquated USB stick upgrade method the only way?

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post #716 of 5121 Old 04-29-2019, 03:15 AM
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Has anyone successfully updated the firmware on this thing? There is a LAN port. If you have it on your network downloading and applying an update from Epson.com should be easy as pie. Is the whole antiquated USB stick upgrade method the only way?

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For the TW9400 which the 5050ub is based upon that is the only method of update according to the Epson UK site. I’d be surprised if the US version was different. For me it was a piece of pie to do, cheap USB stick that I stripped everything off it and just downloaded the firmware update from Epson to my computer and the copied to my stick.

After this is done you just follow the procedure on Epson’s site and it’s done.

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post #717 of 5121 Old 04-29-2019, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Wow! Awesome info. Thank you so much for sharing this.

The reason I’m leaning towards the AVR and not the cable is because if I take that 50ft HDMI cable, run it straight to my PC, I get native 4K HDR 60hz. Correct me if my understanding of this subject is wrong but does that eliminate the HDMI cable from equation or is it still suspect?


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When you run your lead from the PC direct to your Epson does the info menu on the Epson state 4:4:4 12Bit because that’s amazing for a regular HDMI lead of that kind of length.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
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post #718 of 5121 Old 04-29-2019, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
When you run your lead from the PC direct to your Epson does the info menu on the Epson state 4:4:4 12Bit because that’s amazing for a regular HDMI lead of that kind of length.


Just ran the lead direct from my Projector to PC. By default without changing any settings it shows 8 Bit BT2020 HDR10. When I change to 4:4:4 it only gives me the option for 8 Bit. When I change to 4:2:2 it lets me choose 8, 10 or 12. Chose 12 and it worked and let me turn on HDR. So I was running 4:2:2 12 Bit HDR10.


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post #719 of 5121 Old 04-29-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Just ran the lead direct from my Projector to PC. By default without changing any settings it shows 8 Bit BT2020 HDR10. When I change to 4:4:4 it only gives me the option for 8 Bit. When I change to 4:2:2 it lets me choose 8, 10 or 12. Chose 12 and it worked and let me turn on HDR. So I was running 4:2:2 12 Bit HDR10.


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That's impressive, the Fiber HDMI will give you 4:4:4 12 Bit but you are getting enough for 24Hz Movies so no point upgrading unless your lead was the problem which it doesn't appear to be. Hopefully one of the guys on the AVR section can sort you out.

P.S. Meant to ask when you connected directly between PC and projector did you switch the Signal to Expanded because wasn't that the issue you were having in the first place?

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
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post #720 of 5121 Old 04-29-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
That's impressive, the Fiber HDMI will give you 4:4:4 12 Bit but you are getting enough for 24Hz Movies so no point upgrading unless your lead was the problem which it doesn't appear to be. Hopefully one of the guys on the AVR section can sort you out.



P.S. Meant to ask when you connected directly between PC and projector did you switch the Signal to Expanded because wasn't that the issue you were having in the first place?


I hope so too. I’ve posted over on the Nvidia Forums in case this is a card issue of some sort.

So all the results I told you about in the above message is with the Projector set to Expanded. If it’s on Normal then I don’t have an option for Expanded color or HDR.


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