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THE Epson 5050UB/6050UB Thread (No Price Talk)

2M views 16K replies 1K participants last post by  fredworld 
#1 · (Edited)
Figured I would get the hands-on thread going to augment the rumors thread that has been going.

Epson HC5050UB has started to get into customers' hands on the eve of being officially announced next week on April 9th.

What we know:

Price: $2,999.00 (made it to the sub $3k forum by $1!)

Same chassis as 4000, 5040UB, 4010, 4050 etc etc etc

The big one... finally 18gbps HDMI

Early reviews of the EU equivalent TW-9400 are starting to make their way online

I posted a quick video of my test bench I will be using to review and compare to BenQ's new HT5550. Stay tuned.



 
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#4,601 · (Edited)
Turn that box into a hush-box maybe...?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Great job on the box you built, looks even better than a projector hanging, very clean.

Have you tried to calibrate your projector on ECO? You may be able to get it close enough which should reduce the noise. I posted DB readings from my 6050ub.

Consider getting some foam isolation that is used in packing/sound isolation and lining the three sides with it to see the difference. See attachment for what I mean.

I have a light controlled room and always find ECO more than bright enough and barely audible. I only barely hear the Iris when in use.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
#4,602 ·
The first 5050 was shipped / packaged so poorly that the store (Stuart's Audio, Westfield, NJ) wouldn't even give it to me. They had to place a new order. So my ownership of a 5050 seems to have been doomed from the get-go.

I am curious why you feel the 5050UB needs a professional calibration. Mine looks amazing without it, so I'm not sure what real improvement a calibration would bring.
 
#4,603 ·
Great job on the box you built, looks even better than a projector hanging, very clean.

Have you tried to calibrate your projector on ECO? You may be able to get it close enough which should reduce the noise. I posted DB readings from my 6050ub.

Consider getting some foam isolation that is used in packing/sound isolation and lining the three sides with it to see the difference. See attachment for what I mean.

I have a light controlled room and always find ECO more than bright enough and barely audible. I only barely hear the Iris when in use.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Not a great idea to wrap foam around any type of heat producing electronic item. I understand the the venting for the projector is in the front. You are reducing the noise. You are also raising the internal temperature of the projector. This will cause the cooling mechanism to work harder than intended. This will cause premature wear and early mechanical failure. Hush boxes need to be well thought out and properly designed to reduce heat not increase it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
#4,604 ·
I am curious why you feel the 5050UB needs a professional calibration. Mine looks amazing without it, so I'm not sure what real improvement a calibration would bring.
Some people would not notice the improvements a professional calibration brings. Those individuals are very smart to not waste their money. Many people prefer the inaccurate colors and blown our images from an overly bright display. That is how televisions in stores look. Overly saturated , overly bright and what appears to be higher contrast due to the those factors. A calibrated image is color accurate, brings out specular highlights and shadow details, among other things. There is no right or wrong. Everyone enjoys images differently.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
#4,605 ·
Not a great idea to wrap foam around any type of heat producing electronic item. I understand the the venting for the projector is in the front. You are reducing the noise. You are also raising the internal temperature of the projector. This will cause the cooling mechanism to work harder than intended. This will cause premature wear and early mechanical failure. Hush boxes need to be well thought out and properly designed to reduce heat not increase it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Totally agree and good point, I would put a temperature sensor up and take readings before and during modifications to ensure it doesn't cause hot spots and do some tests with and without.

You could add silent low rpm fans and address the heat issues. You may not need any sound isolation on top depending on seating and where the sound is coming from to reduce heat.

Lots of things contribute to heat, how close to the ceiling, total air volume, etc... Looks like you have room to adjust and increase size if necessary to add ventilation.

Good luck and report back.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
#4,606 ·
Is it better to have the Denon AVR-X2600H receiver upscale 1080 content to 4k or to have the Epson 5050 projector do the upscaling to 4k? How good is the Epson upscaling?
 
#4,607 ·
However, one negative I have is the noise of the Epson. Even in Mid-power mode the fan is clearly audible during quiet scenes in movies. Even my wife commented on it, and she never notices that kind of stuff....Is this level of noise normal, or is there a chance I have a defective unit? Not only do I hear a "whoosh", but there is also an audible hum that happens on a regular cadence (every second or so).

Also, I took jaredmwright's suggestion and built a hanging box wrapped w/ speaker cloth to hide the projector. It turned out pretty well (see attached pics).
My 5050 was particularly loud as well. I sit 4' in front of the projector and always hear it during quieter scenes.

AMAZING job on the box. I love your whole room.
 
#4,608 · (Edited)
I am curious why you feel the 5050UB needs a professional calibration. Mine looks amazing without it, so I'm not sure what real improvement a calibration would bring.
Like most things, there's a law of diminishing return for sure. And calibrating the projector is definitely more about refining the image than fixing a problem.

Did I love the picture the first time I fired up the 5050? Oh, HELL YES! I was blown away. So "need" may not be the right word here.

That said, is there room for improvement? Yup. No doubt. Epson even had their 6050 calibrated for the NYC launch event and kept the calibrator on hand for the evening.

Towards the end of my calibration, I sat with Chad (hdtvbychadb.com) as he was putting the finishing touches on and asked him to show me what he was tweaking.

We had on The Greatest Showman and it was an outside, dark scene where people were carrying torches. Chad was trying to nail down the skin tones. He was going back and forth on a single adjustment in the 8-point greyscale settings. Never in a million years would I have thought that I could see the difference if the Grey Scale Level 5 Green was a -2 or a -3. But when Chad showed me what to look for during the changes, it suddenly became very easy to see the differences.

Some other projector review site shared three calibrations for HDR "best", HDR "bright" and SDR. Its worth just looking at the data and seeing the differences between them. (projectorreviews.com/epson/epson-home-cinema-5050ub-4k-capable-home-theater-projector-review-calibration-settings)

For a look at some of the data, take a look at the attached graphs. These are some of the pre/post calibration reports. In graph form, it looks like a pretty dramatic difference. Whether or not someone can see the differences, or think they are significant, or think its worth the extra money are personal choices.

When I think about the amount of money I've invested in my movie watching experience, an extra $500 to squeeze out additional performance from the projector seemed like an easy decision to make. I think of it the same way as treating a room for 2nd and 3rd level reflections, or painting the ceiling a dark color to improve the contrast on the screen.

Just my $.03. Curious what you think of the graphs, @groggrog.
 

Attachments

#4,609 ·
Some people would not notice the improvements a professional calibration brings. Those individuals are very smart to not waste their money. Many people prefer the inaccurate colors and blown our images from an overly bright display. That is how televisions in stores look. Overly saturated , overly bright and what appears to be higher contrast due to the those factors. A calibrated image is color accurate, brings out specular highlights and shadow details, among other things. There is no right or wrong. Everyone enjoys images differently.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
That is so true, my brother-in-law watches his TV in dynamic mode that frankly cut the eyes out of my within about 10-15 mins and every time I’m round when he goes into the kitchen to make a cuppa I quickly switch the setting to natural but every time I return to see them it back to dynamic. :rolleyes:

For him a calibration would be the biggest waste of money.

In fact he listens to music in much the same way with bass and treble both turned up to the max.
 
#4,610 ·
Like most things, there's a law of diminishing return for sure. And calibrating the projector is definitely more about refining the image than fixing a problem.

Did I love the picture the first time I fired up the 5050? Oh, HELL YES! I was blown away. So "need" may not be the right word here.

That said, is there room for improvement? Yup. No doubt. Epson even had their 6050 calibrated for the NYC launch event and kept the calibrator on hand for the evening.

Towards the end of my calibration, I sat with Chad (hdtvbychadb.com) as he was putting the finishing touches on and asked him to show me what he was tweaking.

We had on The Greatest Showman and it was an outside, dark scene where people were carrying torches. Chad was trying to nail down the skin tones. He was going back and forth on a single adjustment in the 8-point greyscale settings. Never in a million years would I have thought that I could see the difference if the Grey Scale Level 5 Green was a -2 or a -3. But when Chad showed me what to look for during the changes, it suddenly became very easy to see the differences.

Some other projector review site shared three calibrations for HDR "best", HDR "bright" and SDR. Its worth just looking at the data and seeing the differences between them. (projectorreviews.com/epson/epson-home-cinema-5050ub-4k-capable-home-theater-projector-review-calibration-settings)

For a look at some of the data, take a look at the attached graphs. These are some of the pre/post calibration reports. In graph form, it looks like a pretty dramatic difference. Whether or not someone can see the differences, or think they are significant, or think its worth the extra money are personal choices.

When I think about the amount of money I've invested in my movie watching experience, an extra $500 to squeeze out additional performance from the projector seemed like an easy decision to make. I think of it the same way as treating a room for 2nd and 3rd level reflections, or painting the ceiling a dark color to improve the contrast on the screen.

Just my $.03. Curious what you think of the graphs, @groggrog .

Great explanation and thanks for sharing the info! Not sure if I'm the type that would notice much difference with calibration but it's worth a shot. I did reach out to Chad to see if he's making a New Jersey run sometime soon.


Thanks again!
 
#4,611 ·
Guys, I am planning a theater with the 5050 or 6050 and I have 5 questions for you:

1. Will either Epson handle a 160” diagonal 2.39 screen? The primary use is for movies in a dark, light controlled dedicated theater. The screen I’m planning is the Screen Innovations in the Slate 1.2 gain fabric. This is an ALR fabric, which I had planned to utilize for sports watching with some ambient light, but the primary use is for movie watching in a dark room. I would say sports watching is maybe 5-10% of overall use. I could switch to their pure white fabric if that would really helped the brightness, and just accept some compromises when having some ambient light in the room for sports parties.

2. The projector calculators I’m looking at say I should have the throw distance at about 22 feet. Closer than that puts the projector into a wide angle setting. Does that look right?

3. Would the 6050UB vs 5050 make any difference in image quality or brightness, given some of my challenges? I’ve read the 6050 has higher quality lenses, would this or anything else help my brightness challenges?

4. I’ve read about the noise on this projector and I’m planning on having to do a hush box since I’m assuming it will run at least in the medium brightness setting. Would running it in high full time be strenuous on the projector? Or does that just wear out the lamp sooner?

5. The 6050 comes with a mount. Is it a good one? How flush to the ceiling does it get? I was toying with the idea of mounting it to the ceiling and then building the hush box around it, but to make this work the mount has to get the projector pretty tight to the ceiling.
 
#4,612 ·
My 5050 was particularly loud as well. I sit 4' in front of the projector and always hear it during quieter scenes.

AMAZING job on the box. I love your whole room.
Thanks! I agonized over the design of the room for quite a while and I'm very happy with the end result.


Also, thanks to all of you who provided feedback regarding the noise of the 5050. I really don't want to do a hush box for various reasons. I was more curious if my unit is normal in terms of fan noise, or if there is any chance that I have a defective unit. If the fan noise is just something I need to get used to that's fine, but if it's abnormal I would like to have the projector replaced.

I don't think the placement makes any difference for my 5050. When I first set it up it was sitting on a table behind my theater room couch. The noise was just as audible then as it is now that it is mounted on the ceiling.
 
#4,613 ·
Thanks! I agonized over the design of the room for quite a while and I'm very happy with the end result.





Also, thanks to all of you who provided feedback regarding the noise of the 5050. I really don't want to do a hush box for various reasons. I was more curious if my unit is normal in terms of fan noise, or if there is any chance that I have a defective unit. If the fan noise is just something I need to get used to that's fine, but if it's abnormal I would like to have the projector replaced.



I don't think the placement makes any difference for my 5050. When I first set it up it was sitting on a table behind my theater room couch. The noise was just as audible then as it is now that it is mounted on the ceiling.
Your fan noise sounds normal to me. During quiet scenes I can hear the projector in High and Medium fan mode. I use Eco for SDR and do not hear the fan nose then although SDR is mainly sports viewing. Not many quiet sports LOL , except golf.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
#4,614 ·
My 5050 was particularly loud as well. I sit 4' in front of the projector and always hear it during quieter scenes.

AMAZING job on the box. I love your whole room.
Thanks! I agonized over the design of the room for quite a while and I'm very happy with the end result.


Also, thanks to all of you who provided feedback regarding the noise of the 5050. I really don't want to do a hush box for various reasons. I was more curious if my unit is normal in terms of fan noise, or if there is any chance that I have a defective unit. If the fan noise is just something I need to get used to that's fine, but if it's abnormal I would like to have the projector replaced.

I don't think the placement makes any difference for my 5050. When I first set it up it was sitting on a table behind my theater room couch. The noise was just as audible then as it is now that it is mounted on the ceiling.
This is a forum about audio and video, so why don't a few of us post a short video clip showing the volume/SPL level of the projector at a measurement distance of 6" from the front of the unit, in eco, medium, and high lamp modes? That way we can compare SPL levels, and also compare the actual sound of the units, to see if there is a general consensus on what it is supposed to sound like and how loud is typical. I have a UMIK-1 and REW, and I'll start working on that now. I'll post a reply with a YouTube link of my video soon.
 
#4,615 ·
This is a forum about audio and video, so why don't a few of us post a short video clip showing the volume/SPL level of the projector at a measurement distance of 6" from the front of the unit, in eco, medium, and high lamp modes? That way we can compare SPL levels, and also compare the actual sound of the units, to see if there is a general consensus on what it is supposed to sound like and how loud is typical. I have a UMIK-1 and REW, and I'll start working on that now. I'll post a reply with a YouTube link of my video soon.
I think this is a great idea. I tried recording a video w/ my phone last night but I wasn't thrilled with the audio quality. I'll see if I can get a better recording tonight. I also have a SPL meter somewhere that I can dig out.
 
#4,616 ·
This is a forum about audio and video, so why don't a few of us post a short video clip showing the volume/SPL level of the projector at a measurement distance of 6" from the front of the unit, in eco, medium, and high lamp modes? That way we can compare SPL levels, and also compare the actual sound of the units, to see if there is a general consensus on what it is supposed to sound like and how loud is typical. I have a UMIK-1 and REW, and I'll start working on that now. I'll post a reply with a YouTube link of my video soon.
That sounds like a lot of work. Can't we just ***** about things instead? ;-)

Does anyone have a good (preferably free) app they can recommend (android and iOS)? I've tried a few, but had 5-10db differences between them, so not sure that it would represent any fair comparison or useful data.
 
#4,617 ·
So I ended up getting a 5050UB just before Thanksgiving. It has replaced a Sony HW40ES. I did a direct comparison between the two and I was kind of hoping NOT to notice a discernible difference so I could return the Epson and save myself several grand. Fortunately/unfortunately, the Epson is a CLEAR upgrade over the older Sony. The fauxK makes a distinct difference in sharpness and detail, but the true upgrade is in the color. The increased color palette is immediately noticeable and HDR looks amazing. The Epson is a damn light cannon!

However, one negative I have is the noise of the Epson. Even in Mid-power mode the fan is clearly audible during quiet scenes in movies. Even my wife commented on it, and she never notices that kind of stuff. The HW40ES couldn't be heard at all, even in high-lamp mode, so this has been hugely disappointing. Is this level of noise normal, or is there a chance I have a defective unit? Not only do I hear a "whoosh", but there is also an audible hum that happens on a regular cadence (every second or so).

Also, I took jaredmwright's suggestion and built a hanging box wrapped w/ speaker cloth to hide the projector. It turned out pretty well (see attached pics).
A light cannon is going to generate a lot of heat and hence need more intense cooling fans. For those who say to calibrate in ECO be careful with that because as the lamp drops lumens in about 500 hours it's going to be particularly dim. I have a 120" screen and have it in high lamp mode which is really needed for HDR and 3D where you need all the brightness you can get with a projector! Running it in high lamp mode gets me a bit closer to a flat panel TV but nowhere near as bright. Some would say my setup is too bright but to me I hate dim images. Those placing the projector within 4' of listening position I'd ask if it isn't possible in their room to place it a bit further away, a light cannon fan is going to generate noise and placing it within 4' of listening position is asking for trouble...
 
#4,618 ·
I really don't want to do a hush box for various reasons.
Something that might be worth experimenting with to see if it makes a difference might be to temporarily add a baffle in front of your box with a portal for the beam to pass through. You would space it well away from the front of the box to still allow the hot air to vent and escape. On the baffle surface facing the projector you would use sound absorbent material. You might use the shape of the baffle to help direct the sound towards the rear of the room/away from the seats. A temporary solution might be as simple as cardboard with foam on the back to see if it is effective or not.
 
#4,619 · (Edited)
I just installed my new 6050UB last night (upgraded from a 5050UB) and I am impressed. I can actually see a difference, although I'm not directly comparing them. I don't know if that's because of individual variances in the quality of the Epson units, or if the better lens and potentially other components make a difference. High power mode on the 6050UB is definitely warmer than the 5050UB, I see the slight red shift as the lamp powers up from medium that I didn't see on the 5050UB, which had more of a green shift. But that may be because my bulb on the 6050UB is brand new (5 hours). I have read calibration reports that say the 6050UB is slightly warmer by default, so maybe there is some unspecified difference to account for that.

One thing I'm puzzled by: the Epson 6050UB claims to have ISF Day, ISF Night, and ISF and CalMAN patterns and tools built-in (that the 5050UB does not), but I only see that in the marketing materials. It's not mentioned anywhere in the manuals and also not in any of the menus I have access to (regular and service menu). There must be a hidden ISF calibration menu. I suspect it's hidden on purpose (so a public reply might be bad form), but if someone knows how to access it, could you send me a PM please? Thanks!

-J.C.
 
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#4,620 ·
Guys, I am planning a theater with the 5050 or 6050 and I have 5 questions for you:

1. Will either Epson handle a 160” diagonal 2.39 screen? The primary use is for movies in a dark, light controlled dedicated theater. The screen I’m planning is the Screen Innovations in the Slate 1.2 gain fabric. This is an ALR fabric, which I had planned to utilize for sports watching with some ambient light, but the primary use is for movie watching in a dark room. I would say sports watching is maybe 5-10% of overall use. I could switch to their pure white fabric if that would really helped the brightness, and just accept some compromises when having some ambient light in the room for sports parties.

2. The projector calculators I’m looking at say I should have the throw distance at about 22 feet. Closer than that puts the projector into a wide angle setting. Does that look right?

3. Would the 6050UB vs 5050 make any difference in image quality or brightness, given some of my challenges? I’ve read the 6050 has higher quality lenses, would this or anything else help my brightness challenges?

4. I’ve read about the noise on this projector and I’m planning on having to do a hush box since I’m assuming it will run at least in the medium brightness setting. Would running it in high full time be strenuous on the projector? Or does that just wear out the lamp sooner?

5. The 6050 comes with a mount. Is it a good one? How flush to the ceiling does it get? I was toying with the idea of mounting it to the ceiling and then building the hush box around it, but to make this work the mount has to get the projector pretty tight to the ceiling.
1.
Before getting any screen it's very recommended it be used on a wall for a few weeks to see what works.


An 160" 2.39:1 screen fits inside a 169.3" 16:9 screen. Square surface for this 169.3" screen is 85.08 ft².
16:9 needs to be used for calculations since this is the format the projector outputs and brightness goes to the black bars as well.

These measurements are taken with 100% zoom.



Zoom Lens Light Loss. Going from the widest to the full telephoto setting on the 2.1x zoom lens resulted in a little more than 28% loss of light in any given color mode.


With the current setup about 50% of zoom is used, so 14% of light loss.

To calculate the fL the lumens of the present and lamp mode needs to be divided by the square surface.
Example:
Natural preset in Eco lamp has 1438lm. 1438/85.08=16.9fL
Now take out the light loss: 16.9 x 0.86=14.53fL
After this add in the gain of the screen.
Can't remember if the Slate 1.2 actually has 1.2 gain, but let's assume that it does.
14.53 x 1.2=17.43fL

15fL is recommended for SDR, 30+fL for HDR.
Lamps loose around 25% brightness after 500h, after that the light loss is linear until the estimated hour rate of the lamp, which is 50% of it's original brightness.
The closer a projector is, the brighter it will be.

That being said, for this type of fabric and ALR's in general, in order not to experience visual artifacts a minimum throw range of 1.5x is recommended. It;s very likely that even at this throw range some artifacts will be visible with bright images. A throw closer to 2.0x would be better suited.
Throw range is calculated by the width of the screen. The width of this screen is 147.6"=12.3'.
22'/12.3'=1.78x

It's unknown how much the image will be impacted by artifacts at 1.78x throw range.
Can the projector be placed further back?
You can get the screen and try the projector at different distances, with smaller images.


What are the color of the walls?
The ideal setup is a room without any reflections and a white screen. Some users are unhappy with the image of any ALR screen, without any obvious artifacts like hotspots or sparkle. But you might not notice.
While an ALR screen is good at combating ambient light, a white screen, one with maybe a bit of gain would be better. The workaround is the light should not hit the screen directly. Recessed lights in the viewing are and not in the screen area.
And for only 5-10% of sports use I would just get a white screen and manage the lightning in the room.

As to what white screen you should get, make a thread or read some of the other ones here:https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/
Of course a simple Silver Ticket/Carl's/Elite white fabric would do well.

If you want a screen with some ALR properties without the downsides, and increase the contrast of the image certain paint mixes can be used:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/1311989-official-silver-fire-v-2-thread.html


To read more about projector use in ambient light, check out this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-d...msrp/3101870-projector-use-ambient-light.html

A general discussion on white/grey/ALR screens:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-s...screens-vs-gray-screens-color-pop-whites.html



2.Use this calculator.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-Home_Cinema_5050UB-projection-calculator-pro.htm

3. I don't believe there is any significant light output difference between the 5050 and 6050.

4. The lamp will wear out quicker if used on a higher setting. But they are not that expensive.
There is an increased thermal stress when using the projector in a higher lamp mode, but I don't know how much that will actually affect it's lifespan. If it's going to be used 5 hours every day for 10 years, that might cause some components to fail quicker. I'd say don't worry about it.

5. The mount the 6050UB is great.
Not sure how flush it gets.

Please consider treating the room for wall reflections.
Demonstration:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiondream/videos/1692721894385217/
 
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