Epson Home Cinema 5050UB 4K PRO-UHD HDR Projector Hands-On Review - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 359 Old 04-28-2019, 07:38 PM
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Interesting feedback on the NX5 vs the NX7!

I'd wonder what the NX7 calibrated would look like to the NX5 however.

There was just a shootout of the NX7 vs the NX9 yesterday (by pro installers / calibrators), and aside from the NX9 being slightly sharper when projecting geometric images. Under typical images, I was told that they couldn't be told apart. Another thing was the NX7 was actually brighter than the NX9 (due variations on manufacturing I'm guessing).
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post #272 of 359 Old 04-28-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by readthis13 View Post
Interesting feedback on the NX5 vs the NX7!

I'd wonder what the NX7 calibrated would look like to the NX5 however.

There was just a shootout of the NX7 vs the NX9 yesterday (by pro installers / calibrators), and aside from the NX9 being slightly sharper when projecting geometric images. Under typical images, I was told that they couldn't be told apart. Another thing was the NX7 was actually brighter than the NX9 (due variations on manufacturing I'm guessing).
The guy who did mine did all the new JVCs
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post #273 of 359 Old 04-28-2019, 08:21 PM
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Nice!!

I'd love to see a side by side between them then.

If you haven't checked out the Panamorph or Lumagen, I'd highly recommend it.

The Lumagen was a night a day difference when turned off and back on. It's definitely not a gimmick. It took the NX9 to another level (post calibration). I couldn't buy another projector without one after seeing what it did.
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post #274 of 359 Old 04-29-2019, 08:19 AM
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Scotty,

When is your review coming?

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post #275 of 359 Old 04-29-2019, 08:57 AM
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Everything I’ve read about the new Native 4K JVCs is they require a decent projecting distance to produce noticeable contrast improvement over the TW9400(5050ub), of the demos that have been conducted in the UK between the Epson and the N5 that is what’s been said.

Please don’t shot the messenger as I am only repeating what others are saying.

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post #276 of 359 Old 04-29-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Everything I’ve read about the new Native 4K JVCs is they require a decent projecting distance to produce noticeable contrast improvement over the TW9400(5050ub), of the demos that have been conducted in the UK between the Epson and the N5 that is what’s been said.

Please don’t shot the messenger as I am only repeating what others are saying.

The closer you have the projector to the screen the worse the contrast? Huh...that's one I had never heard before.


I'd heard that having it further away reduces vignetting or spotlighting, but also reduces lumens, but nothing about contrast.


Can you tell us more? What is considered "close"?
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post #277 of 359 Old 04-29-2019, 09:47 AM
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The closer you have the projector to the screen the worse the contrast? Huh...that's one I had never heard before.


I'd heard that having it further away reduces vignetting or spotlighting, but also reduces lumens, but nothing about contrast.


Can you tell us more? What is considered "close"?


I would also like to hear more about this


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post #278 of 359 Old 04-29-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Everything I’ve read about the new Native 4K JVCs is they require a decent projecting distance to produce noticeable contrast improvement over the TW9400(5050ub), of the demos that have been conducted in the UK between the Epson and the N5 that is what’s been said.



Please don’t shot the messenger as I am only repeating what others are saying.


Yeah, that doesn’t seem right. If I had to guess: someone mistranslated something.

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post #279 of 359 Old 04-29-2019, 03:01 PM
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A few member on the UK Forum mentioned this so I assume it’s correct, I recall Peter Parker was one of them but his comments along with others were several weeks ago and try as I might I can’t locate them.

Though a French review of the N5 yielded a native contrast ratio of just over 15000:1 and we know the 9400 has recorded figures of over 7000:1 so depending on position it’s understandable why one might say the contrast seemed similar.

If any of you are members over there you could PM him and ask the question.

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post #280 of 359 Old 04-29-2019, 11:46 PM
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As mentioned before, I've seen the NX9 first hand, and it was on a different level than my 5040. I'm not sure how much better the 5050 will be, but I can't imagine it coming anywhere close.

I had a deposit down on the NX7, but I was told that a distributor got a NX9 in, so I pulled the trigger oh it today. I'm hoping to have it by the end of the week.
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post #281 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 12:12 AM
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As mentioned before, I've seen the NX9 first hand, and it was on a different level than my 5040. I'm not sure how much better the 5050 will be, but I can't imagine it coming anywhere close.

I had a deposit down on the NX7, but I was told that a distributor got a NX9 in, so I pulled the trigger oh it today. I'm hoping to have it by the end of the week.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, both the NX7 & 9 are in a different league, the 5 much less so but still better. If money is not a concern then you will always buy the JVC and in fact you will probably bypass the entry level model altogether because performance is the underlining goal here but when cost is also important the improvements become harder to justify.

If you are coming from a 1080p pj and looking to move for the first time into projecting 4K material then some like me will feel the 5050 will be the more logical choice simply because it offers so much bang for your buck but if you already have had the 5040 then I would also bypass the 5050 for the JVC.

Btw I’ve currently switched to the Panasonic BR player with its HDR Optimizer and with subtle tweaks to the TW9400’s HDR slider the image I am getting is truly stunning. Worth checking out is the TW9400 thread on AVForums and look for some of the images put up by brid2005. I believe his setup is a 150” screen and a bat cave.

I’ve saved a few of his images into a Dropbox to check out.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8yvji1fzr...zUUJu_DXa?dl=0
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post #282 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 03:50 AM
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Everything I’ve read about the new Native 4K JVCs is they require a decent projecting distance to produce noticeable contrast improvement over the TW9400(5050ub), of the demos that have been conducted in the UK between the Epson and the N5 that is what’s been said.

Please don’t shot the messenger as I am only repeating what others are saying.

This probably only refers to the impact of the lens zoom on the native on-off contrast of the projector.
This is true for all projectors though.

Zoom max (biggest picture from the shortest distance).
Zoom min (smallest picture from the longest distance).

Zoom min has always had the highest on-off ( and what many forget: the lowest ansi contrast)
Zoom max has always had the lowest on-off ( and what many forget: the highest ansi contrast).

Same phenomenon is true with the Iris.

Here an example:

Jvc x5000:


Epson Ls10000:


And I think this is greatly exaggerated to say that a JVC N5 would need to use zoom min to make a difference with an Epson tw9400.
Both at zoom max should have about 5000:1 for the Epson and at least 10000:1 but more likely 15000:1 on-off for the Jvc!

But still a good point, contrast should always be mentioned together with the zoom and iris used. Otherwise it's meaningless and sadly, many review "forget" to specify.

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post #283 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 05:30 AM
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This probably only refers to the impact of the lens zoom on the native on-off contrast of the projector.
This is true for all projectors though.

Zoom max (biggest picture from the shortest distance).
Zoom min (smallest picture from the longest distance).

Zoom min has always had the highest on-off ( and what many forget: the lowest ansi contrast)
Zoom max has always had the lowest on-off ( and what many forget: the highest ansi contrast).

Same phenomenon is true with the Iris.

Here an example:

Jvc x5000:


Epson Ls10000:


And I think this is greatly exaggerated to say that a JVC N5 would need to use zoom min to make a difference with an Epson tw9400.
Both at zoom max should have about 5000:1 for the Epson and at least 10000:1 but more likely 15000:1 on-off for the Jvc!

But still a good point, contrast should always be mentioned together with the zoom and iris used. Otherwise it's meaningless and sadly, many review "forget" to specify.
Thanks for sharing, this was the comment they were making over on the other forum. Two machines were fully calibrated as well so not sure what affect this would have and the outcome, another comment mentioned was the extra brightness of the Epson gave the perception of better contrast at times.

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post #284 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 07:22 AM
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Can someone explain what the hdmi wireless version actually does? What else would you need to buy to make it wireless?

Also, does this check all the Xbox one x/PS4 Pro hdr gaming check marks or do you need a linker like you did for the 5040?
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post #285 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 07:33 AM
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Can someone explain what the hdmi wireless version actually does? What else would you need to buy to make it wireless?

Also, does this check all the Xbox one x/PS4 Pro hdr gaming check marks or do you need a linker like you did for the 5040?
As far as I’m aware the wireless connection only give 10gbps instead of the 18gbps if it’s hardwired.

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post #286 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 09:30 AM
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I agree with you wholeheartedly, both the NX7 & 9 are in a different league, the 5 much less so but still better. If money is not a concern then you will always buy the JVC and in fact you will probably bypass the entry level model altogether because performance is the underlining goal here but when cost is also important the improvements become harder to justify.

If you are coming from a 1080p pj and looking to move for the first time into projecting 4K material then some like me will feel the 5050 will be the more logical choice simply because it offers so much bang for your buck but if you already have had the 5040 then I would also bypass the 5050 for the JVC.

Btw I’ve currently switched to the Panasonic BR player with its HDR Optimizer and with subtle tweaks to the TW9400’s HDR slider the image I am getting is truly stunning. Worth checking out is the TW9400 thread on AVForums and look for some of the images put up by brid2005. I believe his setup is a 150” screen and a bat cave.

I’ve saved a few of his images into a Dropbox to check out.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8yvji1fzr...zUUJu_DXa?dl=0
Money is always a concern at a certain point. It was really hard for me to justify going to the NX9 as it was 2X the cost. And, it's more than 4X the cost of the 5050. I'd strongly believe that the NX9 won't look 5X better than the 5050, but from VERY well respected calibrators and reviewers, this is the projector that they're personally putting up in their homes (both coming from the RS4500 laser). They said that while the NX7 is close in many aspects to clarity, when viewing things with fine detail (like words on paper, or strands of fabric, or architectural lines), there was a significant difference - which makes a difference overall. They also found that there was a clarity and purity to the image that the NX7 didn't have, and that the depth of color overall was better. Both of these are likely due to the better lens. Additionally, the NX9 doesn't suffer from some initial issues the NX7 and NX5 are suffering from the iris. I'm hoping that when I put the Panamorph over the front of it, I won't lose some of this benefit. But, starting w/ a better image to begin with will only yield a better result.

Either way however, at this point, I do feel as though I sort of overspent in terms of money to value. The NX7 seems like the sweet spot here. And now, just reading up on the 5050, that too sounds like a bargain.
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post #287 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 12:07 PM
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Money is always a concern at a certain point. It was really hard for me to justify going to the NX9 as it was 2X the cost. And, it's more than 4X the cost of the 5050. I'd strongly believe that the NX9 won't look 5X better than the 5050, but from VERY well respected calibrators and reviewers, this is the projector that they're personally putting up in their homes (both coming from the RS4500 laser). They said that while the NX7 is close in many aspects to clarity, when viewing things with fine detail (like words on paper, or strands of fabric, or architectural lines), there was a significant difference - which makes a difference overall. They also found that there was a clarity and purity to the image that the NX7 didn't have, and that the depth of color overall was better. Both of these are likely due to the better lens. Additionally, the NX9 doesn't suffer from some initial issues the NX7 and NX5 are suffering from the iris. I'm hoping that when I put the Panamorph over the front of it, I won't lose some of this benefit. But, starting w/ a better image to begin with will only yield a better result.

Either way however, at this point, I do feel as though I sort of overspent in terms of money to value. The NX7 seems like the sweet spot here. And now, just reading up on the 5050, that too sounds like a bargain.
Calibrators will always want the best simply because they are use to trying to extract that final degree of performance from whatever machine they are working on plus unlike the rest of us they are getting to see and work with more of the best that’s available. In isolation I very much doubt you would notice the difference between the NX9 and NX7, if you can afford it and happy enough to spend this much I’d stick with the NX7.

BTW the guy coming to calibrate my Epson on Thursday was very much pushing me towards a JVC and still would though very recently got to calibrate one of my Epson’s for a retailer and now has a new found enthusiasm for it saying it’s no longer far behind JVC.

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post #288 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 01:07 PM
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That makes sense with calibrators. I know one of them semi-personally, and he's always after the absolute best. However, like us, they still have to pay 2X for the NX9 vs the 7. I've gotta wonder why they'd spend the extra after seeing them both back to back.

At this point, I've already paid for the NX9. I might regret it, but I hope not once it's in.

At least I've seen the NX9 in person, so I know what I'm getting. I just wish I had the chance to compare them In person.
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post #289 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 01:21 PM
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That makes sense with calibrators. I know one of them semi-personally, and he's always after the absolute best. However, like us, they still have to pay 2X for the NX9 vs the 7. I've gotta wonder why they'd spend the extra after seeing them both back to back.

At this point, I've already paid for the NX9. I might regret it, but I hope not once it's in.

At least I've seen the NX9 in person, so I know what I'm getting. I just wish I had the chance to compare them In person.
I’m sure you’ll not regret it one bit once it’s setup. Even having the money to pay for it I just couldn’t do it, I’d always find or should I say the wife would find something else to spend it on. LOL. Though one thing I am finding is that the longer you spend time enjoying this hobby the more you want to improve it, I’m currently very happy with my picture so now concentrating on improving my surround speakers since I built my fronts and centre. The wife thinks I’m mad but at least it’s stopped my continuous watch buying so she’s happy.

To be honest I’m really the only one who uses our home cinema room unless it’s to watch Games of Thrones and then the rest join me.
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post #290 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 01:36 PM
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I’m sure you’ll not regret it one bit once it’s setup. Even having the money to pay for it I just couldn’t do it, I’d always find or should I say the wife would find something else to spend it on. LOL. Though one thing I am finding is that the longer you spend time enjoying this hobby the more you want to improve it, I’m currently very happy with my picture so now concentrating on improving my surround speakers since I built my fronts and centre. The wife thinks I’m mad but at least it’s stopped my continuous watch buying so she’s happy.

To be honest I’m really the only one who uses our home cinema room unless it’s to watch Games of Thrones and then the rest join me.
to

I get a little wiggle room w/ the wife. She just got a new truck over the weekend.

As part of this upgrade path I've embarked down, I just upgraded my speakers from Def Tech 9060 series (w/ center and 1000 surrounds) to Legacy Audios. I went with the Focus SE's for L&R, Marquis XD for C, and Silhouettes for the sides and rears. For Atmos, I upgraded to 4 Revel C763L's. To run it all, I put in a Lexicon MC-10 w/ a 3 channel amp for the fronts, and a 8 channel for the rest. I then added another SVS sub for the rear, and picked up a MiniDSP to balance them both.

The ENTIRE project started w/ me not being happy about my Atmos sound. I found out that the company that put in the equipment didn't set it all up right, but by that point, I was already down this rabbit hole. Initially, I was just going to upgrade my AVR. But, here we are...

Literally none of this was planned 60 days ago... I think I have a problem.
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post #291 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 02:01 PM
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That’s a bit more than wiggle room if I went that far the wife would divorce me. My room has a hipped ceiling and didn’t lend itself to Atmos speakers so I had to go the regular 7.2 route, that said I find with the shape of the ceiling I also get an Atmos effect without the speakers. Went through a few brands of speakers before taking the plunge to build DIY ones, did a fair bit of research and ended up with a company called IPL Acoustics based in Wales who specialise in Transmission line speakers and hand pick and match all their components so you get exceptional quality for a fraction of the price of commercially built ones, all you need to be is a bit handy. Anyone who has heard my fronts are blown away but for me the real star is the centre, I intend to build two pairs of these for surround duties, hardly the standard of the stuff you’ve just bought but definitely a step up from usual mainstream brands.

https://iplacoustics.co.uk/Copy%20of...d_compact_.htm

And once done I’ll turn my attention to building new subs.

I actually get so much enjoyment building the bloody things as I do listening to them.

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post #292 of 359 Old 04-30-2019, 07:40 PM
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I've always been really intrigued by DIY speakers. However, I don't know that I'll ever upgrade from the ones I just picked up. To find something better would be difficult, and I'd likely not be able to justify it.

It's too bad about your ceilings. I love Atmos. I had a purpose built theater room built into part of an unfinished basement, and had the room to really create it as I wanted.
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post #293 of 359 Old 05-01-2019, 01:33 AM
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I've always been really intrigued by DIY speakers. However, I don't know that I'll ever upgrade from the ones I just picked up. To find something better would be difficult, and I'd likely not be able to justify it.
I listen to a heck of a lot of speakers prior to making the decision go the DIY route and the speakers I listen to were MA Gold and Platinums, KEF R series and Q Acoustic Concepts but someone suggested checking out DIYs and one of the names mentioned with IPL, after speaking with the owner/designer and reading testimonies from others who have them I felt these were for me as I wanted something that could do the duel duty of home cinema and occasional music use which their transmission line range does, it's truly remarkable how a single long throw 5" can play so low... in fact Ian was very particular about the shape and size of room suggesting the model I now have, reckon it's best listen to the person who designed them rather than go with my gut and go big. His advice was correct as the rest of the range would have been overkill as I've had friends who has got off their seats and walked over to the subs the feel if they are on such is the depth of bass on offer. LOL

I know this might sound big-headed but these speakers built by my own hands are the equal to any of those i have heard on my quest for musical nirvana.

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Originally Posted by readthis13 View Post
It's too bad about your ceilings. I love Atmos. I had a purpose built theater room built into part of an unfinished basement, and had the room to really create it as I wanted.
The room my HT system ended up in wasn't the original choice, so at the time of designing the house I decided to increase the ceiling height of the room below it by a foot and a half what had the knock on affect on the room above. Unfortunately room I had chosen got re-purposed and I ended up with the room with the hipped ceiling which ruled out Atmos and a screen any wider than 106" 16:9. At least it's still wide enough to fit 3 fat boy recliners in a line and a meter down either side of them but ruled out a second row.

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post #294 of 359 Old 05-01-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
The room my HT system ended up in wasn't the original choice, so at the time of designing the house I decided to increase the ceiling height of the room below it by a foot and a half what had the knock on affect on the room above. Unfortunately room I had chosen got re-purposed and I ended up with the room with the hipped ceiling which ruled out Atmos and a screen any wider than 106" 16:9. At least it's still wide enough to fit 3 fat boy recliners in a line and a meter down either side of them but ruled out a second row.
atmos is still doable even if you will not carve speakers into the ceiling. i have same exact situation with no space in the basement ceiling to mount anything there, so, the configuration i run is the 3 front speakers, 2 surrounds at the same 4ft height from the floor as the front speakers, 2 rear speakers, so, atmos is set on the usual 7-4-1 scheme.

atmos speakers do hang on the walls next to the ceiling, on both sides of the room. 2 speakers are in the middle of the room, right in between of the listening area and the screen, and 2 are in the same line with the listening area (or may be slightly behind it). i used Klipsch R-14S there, and, while not perfect, it works surprisingly well. fronts are b&w nautilus 805, surrounds are B&W 605. i listened to a proper configuration with ceiling speakers quite a lot of times in the salons, then ran same atmos demo disk video at home - it is very close. not the same, but close enough. you can tell the moving of insects/birds from the demo, or what was in it, overall it all works.
onkyo tx-rz1100 has a configuration for atmos that uses a setup like that and it works. ceiling speakers would be better for localization, but, it is still better than nothing.
and, it is way better than a reflective atmos small speaker on top of the front speaker - that is not working well at all compared to side mounted wall speakers, at least not in the small basement room.

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post #295 of 359 Old 05-01-2019, 07:25 AM
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^Not sure it would work in my case.



My ceiling height is only 7' 6" and to say it's easy to hit your head as it is so to add surface speaker might be a health risk. LOL

On the ceiling proper it's only about 5ft wide, it really depends on whether it's that critical to keep your Atmos speakers in line with your main fronts or not.

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post #296 of 359 Old 05-01-2019, 07:34 AM
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I am curious if Luminated67 listened to the BMR Philharmonitor and how compared to the other speakers he compared. I am always considering buying new speakers or building DIY speakers. I would like to down size to smaller speakers but retain the quality force of floor standing speakers. I have built DIY speakers in the past some from kits others from scratch with good results and I agree built by my own hands. Just sometimes a lot of work.
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post #297 of 359 Old 05-01-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstek View Post
I am curious if Luminated67 listened to the BMR Philharmonitor and how compared to the other speakers he compared. I am always considering buying new speakers or building DIY speakers. I would like to down size to smaller speakers but retain the quality force of floor standing speakers. I have built DIY speakers in the past some from kits others from scratch with good results and I agree built by my own hands. Just sometimes a lot of work.
Alas I’m haven’t heard them though they are highly rated, they use an even high quality ribbon tweeter then used in my IPLs so based on my experience of them I can only say they will be quite special. I did happen to hear a set of Cambridge Audios with Balanced Mode Radiator mid/tweeters, greater dispersion with them though one of their original versions so sound was a little in your face.

P.S. It is a lot of work but gets you out of the house and active which for me isn’t too often. There’s a guy on AVForums who have built a full set of IPLs but instead of sticking with traditional rectangular boxes has done something a bit special and the finish he gave them is amazing, he’s done such a wonderful job that I’m considering rebuilding mine now.

Not sure we are allowed to post links to other forum pages so if not allowed please delete the link.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/sec...akers.2219997/

Really worthwhile checking out.
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post #298 of 359 Old 05-01-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
This probably only refers to the impact of the lens zoom on the native on-off contrast of the projector.
This is true for all projectors though.

Zoom max (biggest picture from the shortest distance).
Zoom min (smallest picture from the longest distance).

Zoom min has always had the highest on-off ( and what many forget: the lowest ansi contrast)
Zoom max has always had the lowest on-off ( and what many forget: the highest ansi contrast).

Same phenomenon is true with the Iris.

Here an example:

Jvc x5000:


Epson Ls10000:


And I think this is greatly exaggerated to say that a JVC N5 would need to use zoom min to make a difference with an Epson tw9400.
Both at zoom max should have about 5000:1 for the Epson and at least 10000:1 but more likely 15000:1 on-off for the Jvc!

But still a good point, contrast should always be mentioned together with the zoom and iris used. Otherwise it's meaningless and sadly, many review "forget" to specify.

This is super interesting, but I have a couple of starter questions so that I can understand what you are saying better (I don't own this projector btw):


A projected image will grow or shrink depending on the distance of the projector to the screen, so when you say "Zoom max (biggest picture from the shortest distance)" and "Zoom min (smallest picture from the longest distance)" are you saying that the zoom is changing in addition to the projector distance?


Because we could have:


Projector close, and zoom adjust to make the smallest image
Projector close, and zoom adjust to make a moderate sized image

Projector far, and zoom adjust to make a moderate sized image
Projector far, and zoom adjust to make the largest image


Which are you referring to in your examples?


Also for the iris setting, I'm assuming -15 means shutting the iris down pretty far to let less light through?

Thanks. I'll have some followup questions after I receive your answers.
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skylarlove1999, Luminated67, and scottyroo, what are your opinions on the 3D with the 5050/9400? How does the ghosting, depth, and motion look? How does it compare to 3D in commercial cinemas? Anyone have any comparisons to 3D with JVC's?
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post #300 of 359 Old 05-01-2019, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowBoy View Post
skylarlove1999, Luminated67, and scottyroo, what are your opinions on the 3D with the 5050/9400? How does the ghosting, depth, and motion look? How does it compare to 3D in commercial cinemas? Anyone have any comparisons to 3D with JVC's?
As someone who wears glasses I don’t find it comfortable wearing an additional pair on top of these so haven’t used the 3D on the Epson and probably never will. Sorry I can’t help.

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