Epson 5050UB, BenQ HT5550, JVC X790R - Which one to get? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 176 Old 04-19-2019, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstillen2 View Post
Rumor has it that the 5040ub and 5050ub have virtually the same contrast & black levels.
With the 5040ub discounted to $2000 w a free replacement bulb, does the 5050ub justify the $1000 price jump?

Right now the 5040ub might be the best bang for your buck out there.
Am I wrong???
The rumour is wrong, it’s about 15-20% better.

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post #92 of 176 Old 04-19-2019, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
The rumour is wrong, it’s about 15-20% better.
More like 5%.

Epson TW9300 (5040/6040): 4500-6700:1 native contrast, 412:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home

Epson TW9400 (5050/6050): 4500-7000:1 native contrast, 455:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home

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post #93 of 176 Old 04-19-2019, 01:12 AM
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There are panel unit to unit variances and tiny calibration differences affects contrast with all projectors, those numbers don't indicate a 'real' difference.
They aren't even statistically significant.
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post #94 of 176 Old 04-19-2019, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
More like 5%.

Epson TW9300 (5040/6040): 4500-6700:1 native contrast, 412:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home

Epson TW9400 (5050/6050): 4500-7000:1 native contrast, 455:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home
I have seen far greater differences in tests than this one, not sure why it was this close.

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post #95 of 176 Old 04-19-2019, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I have seen far greater differences in tests than this one, not sure why it was this close.
Probably down to improved HDR tone mapping. The 5040ub was a fantastic projector but it's out-of-the-box HDR picture was lacking. Epson righted the ship with the 4010 and the initial reviews of the 5050 seem to indicate Epson has knocked it out of the park here. Good tone mapping can make all the difference.

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post #96 of 176 Old 04-19-2019, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Most projectors these days do not have shadow detail issues, as the gamma calibrations and calibration software has improved greatly.

Projectors at this level do not generally show detail differently or delineate it differently in dark scenes to the point of 'being unfixable',
other than calibration differences (though as you noted there are rare exceptions). Most manufacturers (other than some budget ones) have gone beyond that issue.

It is true that projectors with higher native contrast will crush shadow detail more, but you can adjust the gamma to compensate.

Some JVC's do have some gamma bump issues which accentuate the higher native contrast crushing the shadow detail.

However, it still doesn't really 'force you' to crush blacks, because any decent calibrator would know how to get around the issue,
and plenty of people in this forum can help someone with the issue even if they are not good at calibration.
Agree. Was definitely not passing judgment about any specific projector. Just trying to point out that these two factors-- black level and black detail-- are separate. For whatever reason I've heard this one argument a few times on the forum: that good near black detail is indicative of a display with poor black level performance.

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post #97 of 176 Old 04-19-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Probably down to improved HDR tone mapping. The 5040ub was a fantastic projector but it's out-of-the-box HDR picture was lacking. Epson righted the ship with the 4010 and the initial reviews of the 5050 seem to indicate Epson has knocked it out of the park here. Good tone mapping can make all the difference.
I’ve only watched a few UHD Blurays but when you get the setup right and it’s a wonderful experience.... much prefer the HDR on this to that of my last LED TV though the OLED is in another league.

A little off track but have watched on Netflix a few Dolby Vision stuff on the OLED, definitely not a fan.

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post #98 of 176 Old 04-22-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis_avs View Post
More pics might be good.


1. Please comment on the noise difference (fan and/or eshift) between the two, with your current settings (Epson ECO vs JVC low).
2. Please comment on lens memory repeatability for both.
Apologies for the late reply. No other pics for now, but...

1.) The Epson is waaaaay louder on Eco or Medium lamp (I couldn't hear any difference between the two) than the JVC on low lamp. High lamp is really noisy (as is high lamp on the JVC).

E-Shift has a constant high-pitched sound. It's different from the JVC, and arguably more annoying. You're unlikely to notice it during actual material or if the projector is a good number of feet away from you, though. Your mileage may very.

2.) Lens memory I didn't get to test on the Epson yet fully, but it's certainly going to be miles better than the JVC. My JVC (and two of my friends' JVC 540/790) all struggle with lens memory to some degree. If you have a zero-edge-style screen (as I do), it's freaking annoying. Heck, our JVCs don't actually fully "adjust" their shift until they've been on about an hour. Mine's about 1" off until it warms up fully (as I said, about an hour).

Contrast on the Epson isn't in the same league as the JVC. For me personally, the Epson could have as much tone mapping as the best projector out there. It's lacking in the contrast, and that's something that bothers me in every single scene compared to the JVC.
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post #99 of 176 Old 04-22-2019, 05:43 PM
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Coming back to this. I’ve read that if you plan to watch sports the JVC won’t handle that well compared to dlp. My main viewing will be tv/movies with occasional sports. So about 75/25. Football and boxing are all the sports I watch with the sprinkle of basketball during the playoffs. Would the JVC still be ok or should I look more at benq or epson? I’ll be upgrading from a dlp to one of these.
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post #100 of 176 Old 04-22-2019, 07:46 PM
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Preparing to Switch from Epson to JVC

I'm in a similar situation. Dedicated theater with full light control. Previously DreamVision, Pannys, and Epson 5010. Ordered JVC rs540. 80% movies, 20% TV. 12 foot viewing distance. 105" Screen. Have a 70" LCD in the den that I will upgrade to an 75"- 85" this year. Looking forward to the change.

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post #101 of 176 Old 04-23-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
More like 5%.

Epson TW9300 (5040/6040): 4500-6700:1 native contrast, 412:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home

Epson TW9400 (5050/6050): 4500-7000:1 native contrast, 455:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home
I'm grabbing this model next week. I wonder what they've done to make the pixel gap smaller? Motion? My 9300 had awful CA so I hope they address this. Pixel gap on lcd, I really did notice it even with the '4k enhancement' turned on.. Whereas the lcos and sxrd panels look more like fishing line (almost makes e-shift pointless) The BenQ 970 and 990 are up there with the lcos and sxrd as far as fill factor goes, closer to that end than lcd anyway.
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post #102 of 176 Old 04-23-2019, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztheatre View Post
I'm grabbing this model next week. I wonder what they've done to make the pixel gap smaller? Motion? My 9300 had awful CA so I hope they address this. Pixel gap on lcd, I really did notice it even with the '4k enhancement' turned on.. Whereas the lcos and sxrd panels look more like fishing line (almost makes e-shift pointless) The BenQ 970 and 990 are up there with the lcos and sxrd as far as fill factor goes, closer to that end than lcd anyway.
This review has some detail about the changes to the 5050 that I hadn't seen before. Worth the read IMO: http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/disp...projector/4916

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post #103 of 176 Old 04-23-2019, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
More like 5%.

Epson TW9300 (5040/6040): 4500-6700:1 native contrast, 412:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home

Epson TW9400 (5050/6050): 4500-7000:1 native contrast, 455:1 ANSI contrast, measured by cine4home

Actually it's over 10.4 % by my recollection of 7th grade math that 455/412 = x/100 , lol. Understanding that it's an ever changing moving target based on scenes and source the question is: How noticeable is it to most viewers and the answer consistently seems to be that it's a noticeable improvement.

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post #104 of 176 Old 04-23-2019, 09:50 AM
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Actually it's over 10.4 % by my recollection of 7th grade math, lol. Understanding that it's an ever changing moving target the question is: How noticeable is it to most viewers and the answer seems to be that it's a noticeable improvement.
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post #105 of 176 Old 04-23-2019, 06:43 PM
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Done! The 5050ub is enroute from Crutchfield. Should be here by Thursday.

So, to add to the 5050ub, is the Panny 820 still the way to go on players, or is the consensus to wait until their new line up hits this summer?
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post #106 of 176 Old 04-24-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstillen2 View Post
Done! The 5050ub is enroute from Crutchfield. Should be here by Thursday.

So, to add to the 5050ub, is the Panny 820 still the way to go on players, or is the consensus to wait until their new line up hits this summer?
Panny 820 is definitely the way to go, for me it fixed everything about HDR and they are still sending out firmware improvements.
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post #107 of 176 Old 04-24-2019, 08:40 AM
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I'm a little less interested in 4k content after looking at some full capture comparisons. I think it's more important to have a visually stunning HD image, quiet (relatively), excellent contrast, low latency, good HDR and 3D capability.
Good points and completely, I agree and hope you are correct. I have not seen much of UHD VS HD comparison; except once with a Benq 970, Vs JVC nx5, Vs Epson 4000. The benq and jvc were far better for UHD only because they were being sent HDR via madvr, with color space sent via rec 709 and with madVR's dynamic tone mapping and BenQ 970 offered 5000 lumens.

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I've seen about 4 UHD vs BD comparisons, and I would say at most, the UHD appears to be 10% better.
Which projectors and screen size did you observe on? As you wrote, on a 106" screen size, it probably is not very visible.. Frankly, at 106" (width or diagonal), you are in LCD TV land.
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post #108 of 176 Old 04-24-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jstillen2 View Post
Done! The 5050ub is enroute from Crutchfield. Should be here by Thursday.
I own an Epson 4000. Very low price point. My prior projector was Wolf 1000i ($85k list price). The epson was far superior! . The lamp for the Wolf was more expensive than the Epson projector itself!
In the past, I had compared the Epson, Sony JVC ($3k to $4k price point) for HD. The environment was not ideal (ambient light in a store) but to me, the Epson was the best value. For some reason, I have never been impressed by the picture of JVC. Perhaps it is a personal preference. I have always liked the picture of a Sony for its "naturalness". Over all, I have now become a fan of Epson.. Considering that they are the largest projector manufacturers in the world (I thought so), I think they get less attention because their focus is not primarily home theater. Also, they seem to be late in the game for true 4k.

Bottom line: I believe you will be thrilled with the Epson and please be reassured that you made a great choice! It is so very difficult to make a selection of a projector these days!

Congratulations!
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post #109 of 176 Old 04-24-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Which projectors and screen size did you observe on? As you wrote, on a 106" screen size, it probably is not very visible.. Frankly, at 106" (width or diagonal), you are in LCD TV land.
Even better...I viewed captures on a high definition monitor! Take a look...the value in UHD appears to be in HDR...not really in the extra resolution.

Blade Runner (1982):
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/0...ray-blade.html

Pacific Rim:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/0...y-pacific.html

The Prestige:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/0...d-blu-ray.html

Blade Runner 2020:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/0...ray-blade.html

Certainly yes, UHD has ever-so-slightly more detail (sometimes) but man I would not be paying for a true 4K projector nor would be putting 4k in my top lists of priority based on those captures. In-fact, the biggest difference seems to be warmer colors...resolution....not so much.

I feel when I have to look really hard at zoomed still images, and not every screenshot or movie showing better detail, makes me think the difference is very small. This is NOTHING AT ALL like DVD vs 1080p like in the past....you didn't need a zoomed-up image still to see the difference.

Those screenshots pretty much cemented that Fuax-4k is good enough and to focus on better things such as latency, contrast, HDR, 3D, etc. Will I buy UHDs? Yes, sure! But only when it makes monetary sense. Most of them seem to be near $30, and I'm just not seeing the difference.

Nothing wrong with a 106" diagonal screen...it's the largest screen I could not only fit in my current house, but my past 2 houses. You can easily resolve detail at 106"...it's all about the distance in which you sit as well. My front row is about 8' from the screen...I get plenty of positive feedback about my little mini HT room. The screen is literally as big as the front wall...it feels huge. Curtains on the side...looks really professional.
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post #111 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Ultimately, after much debate & discussion, I ended up changing course.

The JVC camp convinced me! Ordered the JVC NX5 (includes free replacement bulb - part of current JVC offer), a Silver Ticket 135" Screen (1.1 Gain), the XPAND 3D Glasses & 3D Emitter.

Everything all in rounded up to $4800.

Considering the True (Native 4K), the great deal on the Projector, the free bulb, the new & higher gain screen then the one I have, I think it just made sense and came out to be a rather good deal. Will be getting everything in within the next 4 days. Will start setting up next week!

Thanks all who contributed. I'll definitely post back with reviews, photos and experience.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post
Ultimately, after much debate & discussion, I ended up changing course.

The JVC camp convinced me! Ordered the JVC NX5 (includes free replacement bulb - part of current JVC offer), a Silver Ticket 135" Screen (1.1 Gain), the XPAND 3D Glasses & 3D Emitter.

Everything all in rounded up to $4800.

Considering the True (Native 4K), the great deal on the Projector, the free bulb, the new & higher gain screen then the one I have, I think it just made sense and came out to be a rather good deal. Will be getting everything in within the next 4 days. Will start setting up next week!

Thanks all who contributed. I'll definitely post back with reviews, photos and experience.
The NX5 is listed at at least $1K higher than that. How did you do that?

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post #113 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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The NX5 is listed at at least $1K higher than that. How did you do that?
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post #115 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 12:24 PM
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post #116 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
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Ultimately, after much debate & discussion, I ended up changing course.



The JVC camp convinced me! Ordered the JVC NX5 (includes free replacement bulb - part of current JVC offer), a Silver Ticket 135" Screen (1.1 Gain), the XPAND 3D Glasses & 3D Emitter.



Everything all in rounded up to $4800.



Considering the True (Native 4K), the great deal on the Projector, the free bulb, the new & higher gain screen then the one I have, I think it just made sense and came out to be a rather good deal. Will be getting everything in within the next 4 days. Will start setting up next week!



Thanks all who contributed. I'll definitely post back with reviews, photos and experience.


PM sent
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post #117 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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PM’s Answered

7.1.4: Polk RTi12 Fronts, RTi8 Surrounds, Monitor70 Surround Backs, CSi A6 Center, Klipsch R-14M Front Height & Rear Height + Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer.
JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
Intel Broadwell-E 6 Core (H2O) / EVGA RTX 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra Hybrid (H2O) HTPC
LG UBK80 UHD Blu-ray / XBOX One X
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post #118 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post
PM’s Answered [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I'm not seeing anything on my end as of yet
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post #119 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
I'm not seeing anything on my end as of yet
Damnit!! Couple of my messages never made it through & not even in my sent!! Not sure what happened. I'll re-respond. Might be tomorrow. Getting ready for Friday night. 😊

7.1.4: Polk RTi12 Fronts, RTi8 Surrounds, Monitor70 Surround Backs, CSi A6 Center, Klipsch R-14M Front Height & Rear Height + Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer.
JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
Intel Broadwell-E 6 Core (H2O) / EVGA RTX 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra Hybrid (H2O) HTPC
LG UBK80 UHD Blu-ray / XBOX One X
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post #120 of 176 Old 04-26-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
I'm not seeing anything on my end as of yet
Damnit!! Couple of my messages never made it through & not even in my sent!! Not sure what happened. I'll re-respond. Might be tomorrow. Getting ready for Friday night. 😊
You're fine! Enjoy!
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