Should I buy a 65" OLED TV or a Home Theatre Projector? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 48 Old 04-25-2019, 11:31 AM
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Both. 65'' OLED is great for living room or great room and the projector is for the fun stuff.
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post #32 of 48 Old 04-25-2019, 11:51 AM
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My concern is everyone says that the real benefit of the newer tv's is not 4k (which you have to be really close to see) but HDR. And HDR is not present in projectors. In fact I doubt a projector will even match the color/brightness of my Sony Triluminos 1080p tv.

I live in an apartment. So I don't have a dedicated HT room. I want to upgrade from my 65" tv and see the benefits of 4K/HDR and also get a more movie theater experience, i.e. bigger screen, but that gets very expensive with tv's. But it seems like projector will not give any of these benefits except size.
If not a dedicated room and probably light coloured wall then probably a projector setup isn’t right for you and you are also right a projector can’t match the HDR picture you’ll get on an OLED but despite all these negatives they are all eclipsed by the benefits of a big screen.

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post #33 of 48 Old 04-25-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
My concern is everyone says that the real benefit of the newer tv's is not 4k (which you have to be really close to see) but HDR. And HDR is not present in projectors. In fact I doubt a projector will even match the color/brightness of my Sony Triluminos 1080p tv.

I live in an apartment. So I don't have a dedicated HT room. I want to upgrade from my 65" tv and see the benefits of 4K/HDR and also get a more movie theater experience, i.e. bigger screen, but that gets very expensive with tv's. But it seems like projector will not give any of these benefits except size.
I have looked at 100’s of 4k TVs over the last couple years in showrooms and friends homes. We have many friends that come to our place to watch movies and they are going from mostly 55-65” TVs to our 110” FP 1080p SDR display where they sit about 8’ from the screen to watch a BD source. Granted none of them watch much 4k HDR material on their TVs most watch cable, satellite, or streaming Netflix or Amazon etc. They rock sound bars and a few have some tiny sound bar friendly sub that’s in a 10” plastic cube.

They take in the experience in total with the lights out and normally watching a great new release movie with lots of action and amazing color quality for BD.

They are always wowed by the theater like experience and I have heard at least 50 times “We are going to get a setup like this at home.” Even though so far no one has even with me offering help.

When I watch 4k in a showroom on a 4k HDR TV most of the time they are showing something as a demo that showcases the technology. Most of the time the showroom lighting is about what I would expect in a home living room and IMO with my eyes I don’t get overly impressed with fire and sunsets with HDR highlights than I do with my projector in my controlled light setting. Keep in mind every time you make an image brighter your eyes adjust in the opposite direction to keep the light level the same for your brain. 25 FL in a lights out room looks like 100FL in a lit room. Trust me no one with a 110-150” screen filling all their vision in a dark room wants an image to switch from black to 1000 nits. For me HDR is a TV need much more than it is a theater need.

I don’t know how good or bad your apartment might be for projection with or without HDR. @sage11x has posted both screen shots and views of his apartment room in his BenQ HT2550 review thread. Along with a lot of his impressions of 4k HDR on a 110” 1.0 white screen in a room I’m guessing is about like yours. Read thru those threads and it might give you an idea of what to expect.
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post #34 of 48 Old 04-25-2019, 01:18 PM
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If you are the type of person who would rather admire image quality then a content go with OLED, just don't forget to sit 3x closer to see all of that with 65" TV. The reality though laser UST projector with ALR screen can get you such an amazing picture then you would think it's close enough as even OLED.
I would love to believe this. I have set up a short throw benq with "just" a 90" screen in my apartment living room and I understand the size argument. It's just plain awesome. It's just I'm not quite convinced a UST with ALR screen would be a suitable replacement for my everyday tv. I would need to see it in person before investing. Is there anywhere in Southern California to see such a setup?

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post #35 of 48 Old 04-25-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by hobbs47 View Post
I would love to believe this. I have set up a short throw benq with "just" a 90" screen in my apartment living room and I understand the size argument. It's just plain awesome. It's just I'm not quite convinced a UST with ALR screen would be a suitable replacement for my everyday tv. I would need to see it in person before investing. Is there anywhere in Southern California to see such a setup?
Same situation, I wont be able to use a regular projector like the BenQ mentioned ^.
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post #36 of 48 Old 04-25-2019, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs47 View Post
I would love to believe this. I have set up a short throw benq with "just" a 90" screen in my apartment living room and I understand the size argument. It's just plain awesome. It's just I'm not quite convinced a UST with ALR screen would be a suitable replacement for my everyday tv. I would need to see it in person before investing. Is there anywhere in Southern California to see such a setup?
it depends, is it bright and sunny? There are ton of videos though of ALR and UST in daylight conditions


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post #37 of 48 Old 04-26-2019, 08:32 AM
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Am I the only one who gets p155ed off when the OP starts a thread with a question and then doesn't return to it, like seriously 11 days and no comments to additional info request.
yes
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post #38 of 48 Old 04-26-2019, 08:57 AM
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I'm a stickler for image quality (still holding on to a Panny plasma for this reason), but nothing beats the immersive nature of a 165 inch screen. Having said that, if you are a stickler for image quality, then you'll have to find the point below which you won't compromise on it. I started out with a BenQ HT2050 DLP and while the colors were great, and it was razor sharp, the black floor was abysmal. I have a Sony 45ES now and find that this is the point below which I refuse to go in the trade off between image size and image quality. YMMV.
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post #39 of 48 Old 04-26-2019, 09:18 AM
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Bottom line for anyone wishing to have only a projector or only a TV for all video use is that whichever one you choose will be a compromise. Each has a different set of pros and cons. So everyone should give careful thought about which pros are most important to them and which cons they can most easily tolerate. The only way to avoid compromising is to have both a TV and a projector and use each for what each does best. I often switch back and forth between my plasma and projector depending on when and what I happen to be viewing at the time.
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post #40 of 48 Old 04-26-2019, 12:08 PM
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Bottom line for anyone wishing to have only a projector or only a TV for all video use is that whichever one you choose will be a compromise. Each has a different set of pros and cons. So everyone should give careful thought about which pros are most important to them and which cons they can most easily tolerate. The only way to avoid compromising is to have both a TV and a projector and use each for what each does best. I often switch back and forth between my plasma and projector depending on when and what I happen to be viewing at the time.
I used to feel the same about projector / TV each having it’s place.

16 years ago I started off in projection thinking I wanted a dedicated space for just watching movies and had a 120” screen that was enormous for its day in a home. I liked the room and supplemented viewing TV there with a 36” CRT TV. I also liked listening to music and the theater sound system was by far the best place I had for doing that. I discovered friends and family much preferred the projector to the TV for sports gatherings and my lights out theater soon started doing battle with some ambient lighting for these sporting events. That evolved into dual usage dark gray screens and brighter projectors. The theater room evolved to what I have today in my new home a media room.

There was still the thoughts about immersion for movies and even more so with IMAX movies and the unbalance in screen size for most TV. I first embraced CIW then CIH and then CIH+IMAX as movie presentation platforms and that worked good but left TV lacking. At that point I developed my own variable presentation method I call PIA personal image area, and because the brighter and cheaper DLP projectors I grew to love didn’t have all the bells and whistles required to control a projector over the range I wanted for PIA I came up with a DIY solution of moving the ceiling mounted projector on an inclined track to get a full range of zoom needed to be both a TV and a theater projector and the lumens to do both under variable room lighting.

My projector the ViewSonic Pro 7827HD in my 10’ deep room with eyes to screen of 8’ now has a zoom range of 110”-60” screen size without touching any adjustment on the projector and having its zoom at its widest and brightest setting. My stealth screen wall is a .5 gain gray so I have a black floor advantage starting out and enough lumens to support it. The projector between normal and eco will easily do 1700/1000 lumens respectably. That’s the potential after 50% loss at the screen of 24FL-14FL on the 110” screen size and 81FL-48FL with the 60” screen area. With lamp dimming and to be honest the only time it gets bumped to normal mode is for Scope and IMAX movies and even then it is run at the best mode Movie (Rec709) if all the lights are out in the room.

Watching 1080 TV with FP on a 60” .5 gain screen with 50-80 returning FL from 8’ away in a mildly illuminated room is pretty much a TV-Like experience, and with this setup I feel zero need for a second TV display. It is where we have the most comfortable seating and the best sound. I leave the subs off for TV and the level lower than I would for movies.

As an example tonight is Friday night / Pizza night and we are hooked on watching this James guy clean out the bank on Jeopardy. It will be lights on Pizza and Jeopardy at about 70”. Then when I get up to clear the pizza stuff I will dim the lighting a little zoom to 80” for her show she likes Cool Kids. After that the lights go off the size gets zoomed to around 100” for Netflix / Amazon Prime or any of the dozen other streaming sites or if we are in the mood for a BD blockbuster zoom it back to the wall at 110”.

The projector will be on as most nights from 7:00 to midnight. Most nights I do a PIA adjustment 2-3 times. Each time takes about 15 seconds.

A projector can be a TV for the most part, but a TV can never be a projector.

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post #41 of 48 Old 04-26-2019, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
… A projector can be a TV for the most part, but a TV can never be a projector.
For the most part is another way of saying it can be for some people some of the time but not for all people all of the time.
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post #42 of 48 Old 04-26-2019, 10:19 PM
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I get a kick out of people who say projectors can't do 4K/HDR
If you have a blacked out light controlled space, you don't need 10,000 nits for HDR.


I have an LG 65" OLED and a JVC Projector that throws an image twice as wide.
The JVC is not as bright, but as a reflective display it doesn't need to be when the lights are all off.
I actually run my JVC in low lamp mode to avoid eye strain.



The OLED (even though dialed down on the brightness levels) is way too intense without any ambient lighting in the room









I've posted quite a few JVC vs OLED screen shots here from 3 years ago: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post54724244

Just shot these tonight from the Glass 4K/UHD/HDR
2015 JVC model X750 (RS500) 12 y/o $250 ebay motorized 120" screen, 1.3 gain
Shot from 8' viewing distance with a Galaxy S9 smartphone camera

If your Projector doesn't look like a giant 120" OLED,
you're room probably isn't setup correctly and/or you didn't spend enough on your projector
a good JVC projector is not cheap, but it's still a LOT less than the largest OLED TV's







Before my OLED/JVC combo I ran a Pioneer Kuro plasma and an 08' Epson 1080UB for 8+ years in a dual setup
Logged about 14K hours on each, Epson went through 5 replacement lamps and was retired 3 years ago, even though it was still working.

If you've got 100% light control, dark non-reflective walls that absorb light, a Good projector does 4K/HDR Very Well!
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post #43 of 48 Old 04-27-2019, 12:32 AM
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The only thing you really notice between a normal sized TV like 65” and a big projection screen is source quality, if a Bluray is a bit grainy the smaller TV is more forgiving compared to the big projector screen. But when isn’t a great disc then IMO nothing beats the visual experience of a projector.

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post #44 of 48 Old 04-27-2019, 05:42 AM
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For the most part is another way of saying it can be for some people some of the time but not for all people all of the time.
I don’t know anyone beside myself that uses a projector to make an image as small as 60” when being a TV in terms of immersion. I see lots of people with a TV behind a retractable screen as shown above. There is nothing wrong with that of course if the TV is there to take wear and tear off the projector for watching something as a background image or if you need to watch with daylight coming in and the like.

Most people would say to me what is the point of using a projector for a 60” image and they would be correct if that was the only thing I used it for, but having the ability to zoom out to IMAX makes it “for the most part” a TV. Would I fool anyone with my 600 nits hitting my screen into thinking it was a TV? I doubt it, but the PQ is close enough that I don’t have any desire to go out and buy a TV.



I agree with @PioManiac that HDR is a TV spec as it is being widely advertised. The new projectors that are 4k HDR capable only need a little extra brightness for the HDR highlights to do their thing in the dark.

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post #45 of 48 Old 04-27-2019, 05:52 AM
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The only thing you really notice between a normal sized TV like 65” and a big projection screen is source quality, if a Bluray is a bit grainy the smaller TV is more forgiving compared to the big projector screen. But when isn’t a great disc then IMO nothing beats the visual experience of a projector.
Inline with my above post and the reason I went with a variable image size strategy is in a great part this.

If you were to move your projector closer to the screen thus reducing the image size to the same size as the TV that improves a grainy image the projector would do it just as good.

I still watch DVD from time to time as I have 3000 of them and friends, family and even myself come over and say I wish I could see some old movie again. I’m not about to run out and buy it on better media so I dial the immersion down about 25% and with the scaling that takes place it is a good looking presentation. Same with a lot of old classic TV that was made to be shown on a huge 25” picture tube of the day. I take it down as far as my rig will allow and it looks great is enjoyable and still twice as big as it would have presented in its day.

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post #46 of 48 Old 04-27-2019, 08:10 AM
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I don’t know anyone beside myself that uses a projector to make an image as small as 60” when being a TV in terms of immersion. ...
I have a retractable 100" 1.0 gain matte white screen in front of my 60" plasma. My Sony HW45ES is at minimum distance from the screen to throw a 100" image. So when I zoom the lens all the way down I can get a ~60" image. In the dark at that size it seriously challenges the plasma for perceived brightness, contrast and sharpness. But with anything more than a little ambient light in the room black levels become clearly un-plasma-like.

Since I normally don't do serious video watching until after dark I could probably mess around and come up with a 100% projector video setup I could live with in place of a TV. But it would involve some compromises that would probably end up bothering me to some extent. For my wife it would be a total no-go. All she wants during daylight hours is a simple TV that requires zero compromise for casual viewing.

These conversations always lead to a wide variety of different opinions based on the wide variety of different viewing situations and personal preferences we all have. The most important takeaway from these conversations is to understand that there are multiple potential solutions from which to choose the one that best fits one's own specific viewing situations and personal preferences.
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post #47 of 48 Old 04-27-2019, 08:44 AM
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I have a retractable 100" 1.0 gain matte white screen in front of my 60" plasma. My Sony HW45ES is at minimum distance from the screen to throw a 100" image. So when I zoom the lens all the way down I can get a ~60" image. In the dark at that size it seriously challenges the plasma for perceived brightness, contrast and sharpness. But with anything more than a little ambient light in the room black levels become clearly un-plasma-like.

Since I normally don't do serious video watching until after dark I could probably mess around and come up with a 100% projector video setup I could live with in place of a TV. But it would involve some compromises that would probably end up bothering me to some extent. For my wife it would be a total no-go. All she wants during daylight hours is a simple TV that requires zero compromise for casual viewing.

These conversations always lead to a wide variety of different opinions based on the wide variety of different viewing situations and personal preferences we all have. The most important takeaway from these conversations is to understand that there are multiple potential solutions from which to choose the one that best fits one's own specific viewing situations and personal preferences.
Good points and I wonder how much my dark gray screen factors into the smaller size/ brightness/ ambient light equation. Then again my room is also designed around a lights out viewing and the light I introduce back in is very selective in it’s direction and intensity unlike living room windows that are what they are.

For me the trick has always been making the room feel bright to the viewer when in reality it is likely less bright than it feels. A week or so ago I streamed the Masters golf tournament for 4 days and my media room is adjacent to our living room with a 5’ wide archway to pass in and out. That opening I can close with black velvet black out curtains when watching movies lights out. At night watching TV with task lights on we never close the curtains. Watching the golf mid day I had the task lighting going but I did pull the curtains to keep the sunlight out of the room. So as I watched the golf in background I had no problem reading and working on the computer Multi-tasking. But you are correct the daylight was more than I wanted.

I was viewing the golf at around 90” from 8’ with the projector off eco. So I guess my viewing was TV-like but in terms of the actual image it wasn’t TV-like if I had to factor in something like the sunlight. On the other hand I seriously doubt I will ever own a 90” TV to find out.

No doubt your wife is correct there is a nice simplicity to just flipping on the TV. The same was mentioned here the other day as the only other display we have in the house is a 32” TV built into the kitchen wall that is on almost all day. She said sometimes it would be nice to just have a small 42-55” TV in the living room for daytime usage. Now that they are so cheap I will likely get one. .....
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post #48 of 48 Old 04-27-2019, 08:15 PM
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These conversations always lead to a wide variety of different opinions based on the wide variety of different viewing situations and personal preferences we all have. The most important takeaway from these conversations is to understand that there are multiple potential solutions from which to choose the one that best fits one's own specific viewing situations and personal preferences.
This is always the worst bit. I'm simultaneously trying to talk myself *into* getting a big 4k/HDR TV (to get the better fidelity, closer viewing distance, and HDR) and out of it (because big screen and someday there will be an equivalent to the HT3550 with lower input lag). Playing the pro-con game is the worst but I'm sure there's better things to prioritize money wise than having both available in the basement

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