New Epson Pro Cinema 6050UB 4K Pro-UHD Projector First Look & Live Demo - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 204 Old 04-19-2019, 04:45 PM
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That sounds like a real fun time. I wish I lived in the area.

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post #32 of 204 Old 04-19-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Hmmm.

If this becomes a bright enough, reasonably priced 4000+ lumen 4k laser projector for my 150" scope screen... I definitely wont complain. I have thoroughly enjoyed by 5020 and 5040 ub's.

Right now am struggling between the BenQ 970 vs 990 and still the VW5000 isnt 100% out of the picture yet, but again not too interested in spending 40k on a 3 year old projector.
I agree with you. I would caution against the BenQ 970. I wrote a review on it, in its thread. If anything, the benq 990 might be worth considering (since it is HDR ready). The 990 is pretty heavily discounted.

Some how, I didn't get a good impression with the DLP. I did not see the sharpness that people talk about with single chip DLP (I used to have a 3 chip dlp). Frankly, I think the lack of contrast of the DLP would probably make it undesirable for me.

The sony 5000 is too old, in projector tech terms, for that level of investment. I had an option to buy a used 2018 unit for a good price but I had the same concern as you have. I think we can get a 6000+ lumen laser projector in the $10k to $15k range, within 12 months.

Someone who owned a sony 1100 and replaced it with a 5000 told me that he really could not see much of an improvement in the picture, except for the superior light output of the 5000 - but that was 3 years ago, when 4k/hdr material was not available.



It seems to me that the epson lcds have decent contrast.. The 12000 lumen rated projector, seems promising to me.. I could run it at 7000 lumens power and be happy..
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post #33 of 204 Old 04-19-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
I agree with you. I would caution against the BenQ 970. I wrote a review on it, in its thread. If anything, the benq 990 might be worth considering (since it is HDR ready). The 990 is pretty heavily discounted.

Some how, I didn't get a good impression with the DLP. I did not see the sharpness that people talk about with single chip DLP (I used to have a 3 chip dlp). Frankly, I think the lack of contrast of the DLP would probably make it undesirable for me.

The sony 5000 is too old, in projector tech terms, for that level of investment. I had an option to buy a used 2018 unit for a good price but I had the same concern as you have. I think we can get a 6000+ lumen laser projector in the $10k to $15k range, within 12 months.

Someone who owned a sony 1100 and replaced it with a 5000 told me that he really could not see much of an improvement in the picture, except for the superior light output of the 5000 - but that was 3 years ago, when 4k/hdr material was not available.



It seems to me that the epson lcds have decent contrast.. The 12000 lumen rated projector, seems promising to me.. I could run it at 7000 lumens power and be happy..
Ya, I have an Epson 5040ub and just got a new bulb before I moved and started the new theater build, maybe this launch will reveal a new contender for my space, in which case I wouldnt be opposed to holding onto my 5040 until its available.

The Lk990 is definitely solid top of my list right now, the only thing that really concerns me is the RBE. Ive never worried too much about black levels/performance and have always run any projector I have had on the brightest mode regardless, i just like a bright image.
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post #34 of 204 Old 04-20-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Utopianemo View Post
As excited as I am by the prospect of a new Epson PJ, the biggest news to me is that Scott Wilkinson will be there. I miss that guy! I followed his output since the days of Home Theater Magazine, and it's a shame to no longer see him on these pages.
I miss Scott too. Years back I used to look forward to a new Home Theater Geeks each week before he was even on AVS. HT Mag ya.

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post #35 of 204 Old 04-21-2019, 05:35 AM
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Good for AVS Forum. That kind of access from a major player like Epson is impressive.
Very Cool.
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post #36 of 204 Old 04-22-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post

The 5050 and 6050 have already been announced and viewed by numerous people.

I'm crossing fingers that Epson have finally stepped up to the native 4K plate.
I'm closely watching the Epson 5050 but hoping a [black] 6050 will appear soon. If you know anything about that, please share. The 5050 is definitely a pixel shifter. Even Epson's web site agrees. In my case, I'm not sure I care anymore. HDR and WCG seem more important to me.
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post #37 of 204 Old 04-22-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gunnyphillips View Post
I'm closely watching the Epson 5050 but hoping a [black] 6050 will appear soon. If you know anything about that, please share. The 5050 is definitely a pixel shifter. Even Epson's web site agrees. In my case, I'm not sure I care anymore. HDR and WCG seem more important to me.
The 6050 is also a pixel shifter.
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post #38 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 12:01 AM
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6050 and 5050 are one and the same. Only exceptions are the white casing and black casing, warranty and distribution channels.

At least that's how it was with the 6040 and 5040.

In any case, I really hope that this event will not (only) present the 5050/6050 since they are already been announced and have already been seen all around the world. If that was the case, this event and the announcement from @imagic
"– Live product demo on the day it announces!
– Be the first to see it
"
would be only a marketing April's fool kind of joke.

Let's continue to hope that Epson is coming back in the high end game to give some competition to the new JVC and Sony projectors.
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post #39 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The 6050 is also a pixel shifter.
Yes. I understand Epson's marketing scheme. I was just saying I have personally heard nothing about the Pro Cinema twin [6050] for the Home Cinema 5050. If anyone has any information on this I would be interested.
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post #40 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The 6050 is also a pixel shifter.
If anyone has directly compared the pixel shifting Epson to a Sony or JVC full 4k, please comment. Setting the contrast etc aside, did you see a difference in the resolution? I believe the DLP is also a pixel shifter, yes? I compared the epson 4000, benq 970 Vs jvc nx5; I saw no difference in 4k resolution between the three (setting aside the colors, contrast, brightness etc). I am wondering if a more experienced person is noticing a difference.
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post #41 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
If anyone has directly compared the pixel shifting Epson to a Sony or JVC full 4k, please comment. Setting the contrast etc aside, did you see a difference in the resolution? I believe the DLP is also a pixel shifter, yes? I compared the epson 4000, benq 970 Vs jvc nx5; I saw no difference in 4k resolution between the three (setting aside the colors, contrast, brightness etc). I am wondering if a more experienced person is noticing a difference.
What size screen and viewing distance? There is a clear difference between the Epson 4000 and the other two. The BenQ and the JVC are quite a bit sharper.
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post #42 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
What size screen and viewing distance? There is a clear difference between the Epson 4000 and the other two. The BenQ and the JVC are quite a bit sharper.
Screen width is 150".

I am clarifying my question:

Setting the sharpness, colors, contrast, brightness and all factors other than the pixel resolution aside, I would like to know if there is a discernible and visible difference between the "faux" 4k of Epson, vs "real" 4k of lcos in terms of viewable pixel resolution, on a screen of about 150" wide, viewing distance of 22 ft.

Thanks

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post #43 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
I didn't notice rainbow on benq lk970 dlp. I am probably not sensitive to them but you never know.. it might take a few days to develop sensitivity?

My room is light controlled. Black ceiling. Dark walls. black carpet for 10 ft from screen (rest is white - I didn't want a complete gloomy dark bat cave). Sofas are white.. again.. to make the room not be a bat cave. I did cover the sofas with black fabric for a while but that didnt make a huge difference.
I setup my 970 tonight. Now I have both the 990 and 970 here right now. the 970 no rainbows! Impressive. The 990 I see them. watched same familiar scenes. So it's a different beast to the 990.. less complicated too.
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post #44 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Screen width is 150".

I am clarifying my question:

Setting the sharpness, colors, contrast, brightness and all factors other than the pixel resolution aside, I would like to know if there is a discernible and visible difference between the "faux" 4k of Epson, vs "real" 4k of lcos in terms of viewable pixel resolution, on a screen of about 150" wide, viewing distance of 22 ft.

Thanks
That is a viewing ratio of 1.76 based on viewing width. So that has a lot to do with what you are seeing. My screen is much smaller, but my viewing ratio is 1.0 based on width.
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post #45 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by oztheatre View Post
I setup my 970 tonight. Now I have both the 990 and 970 here right now. the 970 no rainbows! Impressive. The 990 I see them. watched same familiar scenes. So it's a different beast to the 990.. less complicated too.
That is surprising. I would have thought the amount of RBE would be the same.
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post #46 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
That is a viewing ratio of 1.76 based on viewing width. So that has a lot to do with what you are seeing. My screen is much smaller, but my viewing ratio is 1.0 based on width.
Good point but i made a mistake. I just measured my viewing distance. It was 190 inches. I remembered that I selected the viewing distance ratio of 1.4, which was originally suggested for 2k. I still watch at lot of 2k. For that reason and other reasons, I can't go to 1.0.
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post #47 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Good Point. Are you suggesting that I might not notice the difference, if any, between a faux pixel shifting 4k from Epson, vs a true 4k from, say a Sony, in terms singularly of pixel resolution (excluding all other factors), given my viewing parameters?
all these 4k scenarios are sometimes tough grasp because of all the marketing but to my knowledge the Epson does only through 4 million pixels up while the BenQ pixel shifting does through 8 million pixels on the screen. @scottyroo was able to demo both units on a large screen and he did note that he could tell the difference in the pixel fill. In the Epson 5050 thread they seem to be happy with it but if your main concern is actual 4K then it is something to note that the Epson is putting up less pixels in their 'version' of 4K. So I think there IS a difference between the faux pixel shifting but it depends on what brand because the difference between a BenQ faux K and a native Sony I think is small, but I would think there would be a bigger gap if comparing the Epson faux K.
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post #48 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Good point but i made a mistake. I just measured my viewing distance. It was 190 inches. I remembered that I selected the viewing distance ratio of 1.4, which was originally suggested for 2k. I still watch at lot of 2k. For that reason and other reasons, I can't go to 1.0.
I was not going to comment on that viewing distance, if that was what you liked, so glad to hear it was a mistake, since it was way too far from the screen.
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post #49 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I was not going to comment on that viewing distance, if that was what you liked, so glad to hear it was a mistake, since it was way too far from the screen.
Have you observed Faux 4k of Epson (4million pixels?) Vs True 4k of Lcos and faux 4k but 8 million pixels of DLP? Again, ignoring the rest of the factors of a picture, at your own 1.0 distance, did you observe a clearly discernible difference in pixel resolution while watching a UHD movie? I am very tempted about the Epson L12000, due to its light 12,000 lumen output and the fact that I am happy with my current Epson 4000 for 2k pictures.. I leave the projector on for a long time during every day - both as a TV and as a computer monitor. I like the idea of running the 12,000 lumen laser at about 60% all day long.. for longevity. I don't want to buy a Sony 5000, albeit used, and run it all day long.
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post #50 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Have you observed Faux 4k of Epson (4million pixels?) Vs True 4k of Lcos and faux 4k but 8 million pixels of DLP? Again, ignoring the rest of the factors of a picture, at your own 1.0 distance, did you observe a clearly discernible difference in pixel resolution while watching a UHD movie? I am very tempted about the Epson L12000, due to its light 12,000 lumen output and the fact that I am happy with my current Epson 4000 for 2k pictures.. I leave the projector on for a long time during every day - both as a TV and as a computer monitor. I like the idea of running the 12,000 lumen laser at about 60% all day long.. for longevity. I don't want to buy a Sony 5000, albeit used, and run it all day long.
It varies with every LCOS and LCD projector due to convergence and lens quality, source also matters.

People that have tested all 3 =
DLP Pseudo 4K > JVC E-shift 4k > Epson E-shift 4k

As far as native goes, well it will just depend on the sharper projector.
On average, DLP will beat LCOS ever so slightly in sharpness, on average (not always).

A Pseudo 4K DLP can beat a Native 4k LCOS projector, if the sharpness difference is enough and you sit close enough.

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Last edited by coderguy; 04-23-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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post #51 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Have you observed Faux 4k of Epson (4million pixels?) Vs True 4k of Lcos and faux 4k but 8 million pixels of DLP? Again, ignoring the rest of the factors of a picture, at your own 1.0 distance, did you observe a clearly discernible difference in pixel resolution while watching a UHD movie? I am very tempted about the Epson L12000, due to its light 12,000 lumen output and the fact that I am happy with my current Epson 4000 for 2k pictures.. I leave the projector on for a long time during every day - both as a TV and as a computer monitor. I like the idea of running the 12,000 lumen laser at about 60% all day long.. for longevity. I don't want to buy a Sony 5000, albeit used, and run it all day long.
I would not sink VW5000 money for a projector that will be used all day long like a TV. I have viewed the Epson E-shift models, but not compared side by side on the same screen. I have done that with RS4500 and several other E-shift projectors. In my setup, the 4500 was quite a bit sharper.
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post #52 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
6050 and 5050 are one and the same. Only exceptions are the white casing and black casing, warranty and distribution channels.


The dynamic contrast ratio quoted for Epson 6050 is 1,200,000 vs 1,000,000 for the 5050. Would a hardware difference account for this?
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post #53 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 02:15 PM
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The dynamic contrast ratio quoted for Epson 6050 is 1,200,000 vs 1,000,000 for the 5050. Would a hardware difference account for this?
No. Marketing.
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post #54 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 03:34 PM
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I'd like to avoid over-the-top expectation here, so I'm moving the thread to the "Digital Projectors Under $3000 MSRP" section.
Ahhh, that says it all then lol - I did think it would have been quite the scoop for AVS to get the launch of the first ever Epson native 4K projector.
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post #55 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 04:44 PM
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i registered but didn’t receive a confirmation - does this mean this is already sold out or they haven’t sent out confirmations yet?
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post #56 of 204 Old 04-23-2019, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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i registered but didn’t receive a confirmation - does this mean this is already sold out or they haven’t sent out confirmations yet?
We haven't sent out confirmations yet.
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post #57 of 204 Old 04-24-2019, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Ahhh, that says it all then lol - I did think it would have been quite the scoop for AVS to get the launch of the first ever Epson native 4K projector.
Yeah, no kidding! Oh well, it will still be interesting to hear what they’re announcing.
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post #58 of 204 Old 04-24-2019, 12:40 PM
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I'd like to avoid over-the-top expectation here, so I'm moving the thread to the "Digital Projectors Under $3000 MSRP" section.
A bit too late for that...
So sad!
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post #59 of 204 Old 04-25-2019, 02:03 AM
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Ahhh, that says it all then lol - I did think it would have been quite the scoop for AVS to get the launch of the first ever Epson native 4K projector.
They've been pretty sneaky past few years with April/May releases.. waiting to see what everyone else does in Dec/January and see how the dust settles.. not that their new projector wasn't already done.. But I wouldn't be surprised if they went native 4K this year, heck if Sony can do it for what? 5 grand over there, there's no reason Epson can't get it done too.

The question is who can get the dimming chip done first? That will be the game changer, he who masters black owns the market.. I hope it's BenQ.. 1. because they need it, doh! and 2. They currently have the best optics in that sub 20K or so price category..... Imagine the 970 or 990 with a million to one native and no rbe? At that brightness and clarity every movie would be complete heaven.
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post #60 of 204 Old 04-25-2019, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mystigiandoll View Post
all these 4k scenarios are sometimes tough grasp because of all the marketing but to my knowledge the Epson does only through 4 million pixels up while the BenQ pixel shifting does through 8 million pixels on the screen. @scottyroo was able to demo both units on a large screen and he did note that he could tell the difference in the pixel fill. In the Epson 5050 thread they seem to be happy with it but if your main concern is actual 4K then it is something to note that the Epson is putting up less pixels in their 'version' of 4K. So I think there IS a difference between the faux pixel shifting but it depends on what brand because the difference between a BenQ faux K and a native Sony I think is small, but I would think there would be a bigger gap if comparing the Epson faux K.
The LCD problem is pixel gap or poor fill factor, ie screen door more noticeable because the gaps between the pixels are wider and more pronounced.. Think fishing line (jvc sony and 4k benq) vs a pen. Downside is you can't sit as close as the other techs so in some instances less immersive but look it's generally not a huge problem.. you might have to move say 20% further back or have 15-20% or so smaller screen IN comparison to the others where you'd be seated right on the threshold of it being too close... like 1 x image width for scope for example.. But the new 5050 is an excellent machine I have one here for a client and been testing out the other day next to the new benq 5550. I got a good sample for client. hope my unit is same or slightly better. They are ALL very good right now. I don't think there's one manufacturer out of the main 4 - JVC, BenQ, Epson and Sony that make bad projectors. Different price points and different strengths for each.
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