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post #1 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Projector won’t stay centered

This is getting really irritating and I can’t figure out what’s causing it. I have a projector screen mounted/screwed in place. It’s an electronic screen I can put up/down with a remote. At the back of the room, I have my projector on a solid wooden mount. Neither the screen nor the projector/mount are being touched or disturbed at all. But for some reason, if I come back to my projector after a few days, the border will be off by about 1 inch. I then have to adjust it again. This repeats itself. It’s an Epson unit and everything is high end so I don’t understand how this is happening. Maybe minor vibrations in the floor from people walking is enough to nudge it? Is this natural? I don’t get it. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks.
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post #2 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guphanti View Post
This is getting really irritating and I can’t figure out what’s causing it. I have a projector screen mounted/screwed in place. It’s an electronic screen I can put up/down with a remote. At the back of the room, I have my projector on a solid wooden mount. Neither the screen nor the projector/mount are being touched or disturbed at all. But for some reason, if I come back to my projector after a few days, the border will be off by about 1 inch. I then have to adjust it again. This repeats itself. It’s an Epson unit and everything is high end so I don’t understand how this is happening. Maybe minor vibrations in the floor from people walking is enough to nudge it? Is this natural? I don’t get it. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks.
I have never heard of a "wooden mount" for a projector; unless homemade, they have all been steel. Could you post a pic of it or a link to where it was purchased ? Regardless, if the image is shifting sideways, it has to be the mount rather than the screen at fault. Unless ... the projector has horizontal lens shift that doesn't stay in position. Does it ? And is it motorized or manual adjustment ? If motorized, does it also have a memory function that is supposed to remember the adjustment ? What projector is it anyway ?

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post #3 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
I have never heard of a "wooden mount" for a projector; unless homemade, they have all been steel. Could you post a pic of it or a link to where it was purchased ? Regardless, if the image is shifting sideways, it has to be the mount rather than the screen at fault. Unless ... the projector has horizontal lens shift that doesn't stay in position. Does it ? And is it motorized or manual adjustment ? If motorized, does it also have a memory function that is supposed to remember the adjustment ? What projector is it anyway ?
Yes it is homemade. Basically due to the layout of the room I needed the projector at a certain height placed behind a piece of furniture, and could not find any stand on the market that had the right dimensions, so I built it myself. It's extremely sturdy, probably more so than anything you could buy. I know that's not moving or shaking. The image is shifted sideways, not vertically. It's a manual adjustment. Basically I'll have to nudge the projector a bit, and adjust the keystone by 1 or 2 ticks to get it back centered again. All in all it's about half an inch to an inch we're talking about, so very minor, but I don't understand why it would move at all.

The screen is screwed into the wall and I doubt that's moving. The only way I can imagine the projector could be moving at all is if subtle footsteps or vibrations in the house are enough to nudge it. It's an Epson 2100. It works and looks great other than this mystery. Nothing can physically touch or hit the projector or the stand where it is, so if it's not vibrations in the house, perhaps it's the projector's own vibration throwing it off? But if it's turned off when it's not being used that doesn't make sense. I've noticed that it doesn't get TOO thrown off. It will get off by the initial amount and then that's it. It's not like if I don't watch it for 2 weeks it's off by a foot.

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post #4 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guphanti View Post
Yes it is homemade. Basically due to the layout of the room I needed the projector at a certain height placed behind a piece of furniture, and could not find any stand on the market that had the right dimensions, so I built it myself. It's extremely sturdy, probably more so than anything you could buy. I know that's not moving or shaking. The image is shifted sideways, not vertically. It's a manual adjustment. Basically I'll have to nudge the projector a bit, and adjust the keystone by 1 or 2 ticks to get it back centered again. All in all it's about half an inch to an inch we're talking about, so very minor, but I don't understand why it would move at all.

The screen is screwed into the wall and I doubt that's moving. The only way I can imagine the projector could be moving at all is if subtle footsteps or vibrations in the house are enough to nudge it. It's an Epson 2100. It works and looks great other than this mystery. Nothing can physically touch or hit the projector or the stand where it is, so if it's not vibrations in the house, perhaps it's the projector's own vibration throwing it off? But if it's turned off when it's not being used that doesn't make sense. I've noticed that it doesn't get TOO thrown off. It will get off by the initial amount and then that's it. It's not like if I don't watch it for 2 weeks it's off by a foot.
So how do you fix it? Do you physically move the projector on a shelf? Or do you use the electronic lens shift? Is possible your electronic lens shift in the projector wanders. Does it shift back and forth?

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post #5 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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So how do you fix it? Do you physically move the projector on a shelf? Or do you use the electronic lens shift? Is possible your electronic lens shift in the projector wanders. Does it shift back and forth?
I'll have to go to the projector and ever so slightly nudge it, and then in the projector menu adjust the corners by a tick or two to get the corners perfect. I just don't want to do it every time. I can't think of any force acting upon the projector to throw it off. I'd probably have to do jumping jacks next to it to get the stand to vibrate, but like I've said, I can't imagine that. Could it be that the projector is not remembering the corners correctly?

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post #6 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guphanti View Post
I'll have to go to the projector and ever so slightly nudge it, and then in the projector menu adjust the corners by a tick or two to get the corners perfect. I just don't want to do it every time. I can't think of any force acting upon the projector to throw it off. I'd probably have to do jumping jacks next to it to get it to move.
My opinion is it's the internal lens shift. It wanders. What I'd try is this.

Go into the lens shift memory and move the lens far to the left then back to the right and make sure you end going right. Do not go back and forth. Only adjust it so you're going one way to end. See if it holds that way. If not and it's off the next day, go back and repeat the above but this time go far out of shift to the right, then bring it in place only going to the left.

The thinking is that the mech that moves the lens is geared on a motor. The lens gear needs to be tight to hold it in place and if it's a little loose it can wander slightly.

See if this helps.
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post #7 of 23 Old 05-12-2019, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guphanti View Post
Yes it is homemade. Basically due to the layout of the room I needed the projector at a certain height placed behind a piece of furniture, and could not find any stand on the market that had the right dimensions, so I built it myself. It's extremely sturdy, probably more so than anything you could buy. I know that's not moving or shaking. The image is shifted sideways, not vertically. It's a manual adjustment. Basically I'll have to nudge the projector a bit, and adjust the keystone by 1 or 2 ticks to get it back centered again. All in all it's about half an inch to an inch we're talking about, so very minor, but I don't understand why it would move at all.

The screen is screwed into the wall and I doubt that's moving. The only way I can imagine the projector could be moving at all is if subtle footsteps or vibrations in the house are enough to nudge it. It's an Epson 2100. It works and looks great other than this mystery. Nothing can physically touch or hit the projector or the stand where it is, so if it's not vibrations in the house, perhaps it's the projector's own vibration throwing it off? But if it's turned off when it's not being used that doesn't make sense. I've noticed that it doesn't get TOO thrown off. It will get off by the initial amount and then that's it. It's not like if I don't watch it for 2 weeks it's off by a foot.
Is it mounted to the wall or the ceiling ? If neither, and it is just a "stand", then it will never stay in position. The vibration of the projector alone will cause a stand to walk across a floor. The Epson 2100 does not have horizontal lens shift, so it is either the entire mount is moving or your holes in the wood mount connecting it to the projector are not tight and have wiggle room.

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post #8 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 04:18 AM
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I had this issue with an Optoma UHD51, every time I started the projector the image was offset from the screen by about 1-3cm.



Took quite some time to fiqure out what was wrong but as it turns out the projector needs to warm up first before it properly aligns with the screen. Not sure if Epson has the same problem since it's a lot more high end but might be worth looking into. Just turn the projector on and let it warm up for 5-10 minutes and see if the position changes. After about 1-2 minutes the image always shifts perfectly into frame, just how I left it when I adjusted it.
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guphanti View Post
This is getting really irritating and I can’t figure out what’s causing it. I have a projector screen mounted/screwed in place. It’s an electronic screen I can put up/down with a remote. At the back of the room, I have my projector on a solid wooden mount. Neither the screen nor the projector/mount are being touched or disturbed at all. But for some reason, if I come back to my projector after a few days, the border will be off by about 1 inch. I then have to adjust it again. This repeats itself. It’s an Epson unit and everything is high end so I don’t understand how this is happening. Maybe minor vibrations in the floor from people walking is enough to nudge it? Is this natural? I don’t get it. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks.
Do you retract/extend the screen in between viewings?

Motorized screens don't always return to the same position and will often require some re-centering of a projector.

In a good many installations with motorized screens, the projectors image is over-scanned onto the screen's black border to compensate.

Can you project an image onto the wall without the screen in viewing position and make a temporary mark of the image's corners (two should do, upper left, lower right) with some painters tape or a small pencil mark? Then come back in a comparable amount of time, after a few days, and project the image again to check the image size/position against the wall marks. If the image is in the same place, matching the marks, it's for sure the screen. If not, it's the projector or the house is moving or both.
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post #10 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 09:30 AM
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So, it's easy enough to find out if the screen is causing the issue. In fact, it's easy enough to find out if the projector is moving or the screen is moving.

Measure.

Just measure off the wall to where the edge of the screen is. You should be able to get this down to about 1/8" or so.

Then, when the projected image is not correct, measure again. Is the edge of the screen in a different location? Is the edge of the image in a different location?

I would lean towards the projected image being in a different location, and I would expect that it is because your projector has shifted.

As mentioned in a previous post, if your projector isn't locked into place, it can shift. That can be vibrations of the fan, or because people are moving around the home, or a door slamming, or something else. It doesn't matter how firm your mount is, if the projector is just sitting on it, then it's not secure.

This is part of why good projector mounts matter. A good Chief mount locks the entire projector in place. Yes, on a ceiling that vibrates (like mine) it wiggles when people walk overhead. But, then it goes back to the position that I have it locked into. The question then becomes whether it is just the projector shifting, or the entire mount, or if some digital keystone corrections are getting reset which is screwing things up. I would lean towards the projector, as that's the lightest piece, but really, projectors should be on a very wide and heavy base which can't move at all, then they should be firmly attached to it. If you are in a location which allows the ground under it to move, then it is easily possible that a garage door or a front door opening and closing introduces a vibration which is causing the entire furniture piece to shift. In which case, the only real solution is to screw it into place and use a projector mount to lock the projector into position.

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post #11 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 02:00 PM
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Hi there. I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but is it possible that a subwoofer is causing the vibration, and therefore moving the alignment? You said it was on a piece of furniture... Maybe it is too close?

Just something else to think about.
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
Is it mounted to the wall or the ceiling ? If neither, and it is just a "stand", then it will never stay in position. The vibration of the projector alone will cause a stand to walk across a floor. The Epson 2100 does not have horizontal lens shift, so it is either the entire mount is moving or your holes in the wood mount connecting it to the projector are not tight and have wiggle room.
The stand is made out of solid wood and is about 65 lbs with a large base. I doubt the projector's vibrations could move it.
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi there. I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but is it possible that a subwoofer is causing the vibration, and therefore moving the alignment? You said it was on a piece of furniture... Maybe it is too close?

Just something else to think about.
It's actually a bedroom setup and there is no subwoofer.
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 04:17 PM
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Also something to think about...closing the door too hard. My PJ is in my HT in the garage, and every time the door to the garage is slammed to hard, it would move the PJ slightly.
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Do you retract/extend the screen in between viewings?

Motorized screens don't always return to the same position and will often require some re-centering of a projector.

In a good many installations with motorized screens, the projectors image is over-scanned onto the screen's black border to compensate.

Can you project an image onto the wall without the screen in viewing position and make a temporary mark of the image's corners (two should do, upper left, lower right) with some painters tape or a small pencil mark? Then come back in a comparable amount of time, after a few days, and project the image again to check the image size/position against the wall marks. If the image is in the same place, matching the marks, it's for sure the screen. If not, it's the projector or the house is moving or both.
Yes it's a motorized screen and I put it up and down after/before each viewing. I thought about that, but the problem is that the projected image is thrown off horizontally, not vertically. The screen will always be in the same horizontal position. I will try to mark the corners though since that's a good idea, without the screen, to figure out 100% that it's the projector or the stand.
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post #16 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright I just put the cable box on the projector aimed at the wall without the screen down. With a pencil, I marked the corners of the picture. I'm going to let the projector run a bit, then shut it off, come back later tonight and turn it back on, and see if it's shifted at all.
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post #17 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Now I’m confused. I went back and checked it out, and it looks like the projector is now off again by a few cm from the corners I marked. But I also noticed that different TV channels have slightly different corners. On the other hand, once I have it set it’s usually set no matter what channel it’s on.
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post #18 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 07:11 PM
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If your only talking a few cm I think you expecting too much as the projectors relation to the screen only needs to move a few mm to make that much change. As others have said most of us just zoom out so the errors are absorbed by the borders of the screen. Temperature, humidity and other factors cause things to move slightly and the image is magnified by a large factor so it doesn't take much to move the image.

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post #19 of 23 Old 05-13-2019, 07:17 PM
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If the projector is solidly mounted, and has no quality issues...it is obviously an issue with the screen.

To test this, stop using the screen. Mark the edges of the projected image, with the same input source. Do it for a few days, multiple tests.

This may seem like a lot of effort, but it beats having random forum viewers beat their head against the wall.

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post #20 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guphanti View Post
Now I’m confused. I went back and checked it out, and it looks like the projector is now off again by a few cm from the corners I marked. But I also noticed that different TV channels have slightly different corners. On the other hand, once I have it set it’s usually set no matter what channel it’s on.
That's normal, different channels will/can have different over scan, but probably no more than 1 cm.

Please try it with the same source and same image, i.e. a bluray player and the same movie. You could also just use the start up/home screen image of the projector and that maybe the best reference.
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post #21 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guphanti View Post
The stand is made out of solid wood and is about 65 lbs with a large base. I doubt the projector's vibrations could move it.
Then you don't understand physics. You have a 7.5 lb weight at the end of a long lever and you don't think vibrations can move a measly 65 lb stand ? I've given you the answer and your unwillingness to accept it doesn't make it wrong.

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post #22 of 23 Old 05-15-2019, 12:54 AM
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...and wood does warp a little depending on the temperature

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Does it move after washing a load of clothes? My projector can shake and shift the image ~1cm horizontally if the load in the washing machine isn't evenly distributed during the spin cycle, and that's on a pretty hefty steel ceiling mount rated for ~3x the weight of the projector. The projector is mounted about 2" off of the projector's CG due to not having lens shift... the previous projector which was larget and weighed ~2x as much shook/shifted less but was mounted right on the CG because it had substantial lens shift. Any time your mount creates a moment arm that can be excited, it will be prone to shake/shift... and, as mentioned, it sounds like your mount has a MUCH larger moment to be excited by any vibrations it experiences (subwoofer, creaky floors, washing machine, etc).

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