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post #1 of 13 Old 06-01-2019, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Projector for backyard theater

Hi all, I have been a lurker on these forums for well over a decade, love the knowledge sharing and have made a lot of informed choices over the years due to the information found here, so thank you! I'm finally getting ready to build my dream backyard theater, have a set up already indoors. Here are some quick specs:

- Screen size will be a CIH set up, 18' wide for 2.35 and smaller for 16:9, whatever the math is on that, 2.35 is important to me
- Projector will project from one side of a to be built swimming pool to the other side where the screen will be, throw distance shouldn't be an issue
- Will likely be picking a screen from Carl's place, something outdoor rated, samples are en route
- Want a projector with lens memory so I don't have to screw around with manual zoom as projector will be on ceiling

I am considering an Epson HC 4010 or a 5040UB, would appreciate any opinions on where these will be bright enough. I'm guessing that due to normal ambient light the contrast levels on the 5040UB won't matter much, but can't say for sure unless I test both. Budget is max $2k. I would really appreciate some insights into whether these will work well or not, or if there are better alternatives out there. Pictures of your own backyard set up will also be much appreciated!
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post #2 of 13 Old 06-01-2019, 05:27 PM
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Your only options are the Epson's. 4000/4040/4010/4050 or the 5040. No other projector made today has power lens memory for under $2k. A used JVC also but not generally as bright as the Epson's.

"Smart enough to know better, to old to care" ------ Dedicated Bat Cave Home Theater, JVC RS49U/Mitsubishi HC7900DW Projector, 110" 16:9 Jamestown screen with variable power masking for CIW 2.50:1 to 16:9, Marantz 7009 with 7.1.4 Atmos with Ohm mains,3 DIY Subs (2 15" (1 ported, 1 sealed and a 12" 4th order bandpass), 1 DIY butt kicker, Custom Built HTPC, 18TB DroboFS NAS
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post #3 of 13 Old 06-01-2019, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Do you think any of these will be bright enough for such a large screen size?
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post #4 of 13 Old 06-02-2019, 12:40 AM
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That's the equivalent of a 248" diag screen and the calculator says 13 fL. Good for no ambient light. Why such a big screen? I think it will be too dim. That calculator uses max brightness so with any kind of calibration it will be a lot dimmer. Your looking at a large venue commercial projector to be usable at that screen size in a typical outdoor environment. These are around in the used market but lamps and lens can be expensive.
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"Smart enough to know better, to old to care" ------ Dedicated Bat Cave Home Theater, JVC RS49U/Mitsubishi HC7900DW Projector, 110" 16:9 Jamestown screen with variable power masking for CIW 2.50:1 to 16:9, Marantz 7009 with 7.1.4 Atmos with Ohm mains,3 DIY Subs (2 15" (1 ported, 1 sealed and a 12" 4th order bandpass), 1 DIY butt kicker, Custom Built HTPC, 18TB DroboFS NAS
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post #5 of 13 Old 06-02-2019, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrseth View Post
Hi all, I have been a lurker on these forums for well over a decade, love the knowledge sharing and have made a lot of informed choices over the years due to the information found here, so thank you! I'm finally getting ready to build my dream backyard theater, have a set up already indoors. Here are some quick specs:

- Screen size will be a CIH set up, 18' wide for 2.35 and smaller for 16:9, whatever the math is on that, 2.35 is important to me
- Projector will project from one side of a to be built swimming pool to the other side where the screen will be, throw distance shouldn't be an issue
- Will likely be picking a screen from Carl's place, something outdoor rated, samples are en route
- Want a projector with lens memory so I don't have to screw around with manual zoom as projector will be on ceiling

I am considering an Epson HC 4010 or a 5040UB, would appreciate any opinions on where these will be bright enough. I'm guessing that due to normal ambient light the contrast levels on the 5040UB won't matter much, but can't say for sure unless I test both. Budget is max $2k. I would really appreciate some insights into whether these will work well or not, or if there are better alternatives out there. Pictures of your own backyard set up will also be much appreciated!
Yes, both will work.

With a 2.35:1 screen (92" x 216" - 216 diagonal) you would have ~16-18 foot lamberts assuming Dynamic/full power lamp settings on a new lamp. Dynamic lamp setting usually has a little green push on the Epson's and calibrating to more accurate color will reduce light output/foot lambert value considerably.

A 16:9 screen assuming CIH (92" x 163" - 187" diagonal) would give you ~24 foot lamberts again assuming Dynamic/full power lamp settings on a new lamp. With some calibration, you should be able to get ~14-18 foot lamberts.

So, while the Epson 4010/5040 will work, and I would not be afraid to use either of them, you would benefit from a higher lumen output unit. Especially so for the scope formatted movies. Something around 3000-4000 lumes would be ideal. With outdoor projection, you always have a little competition form the moon and starlight and everyone wants to start the movie earlier so extra lumen out put is always a good thing. BTW, regardless of lumen output, don't expect to get any kind of picture quality until around 30 minuets after sundown or what is refereed to as "end of civil twilight". A better choice might be the Epson HC3700 with its higher lumen output

The Carl's FlexiWhite finished edge screen is a very good unit for outdoor use. It's able to stand up to some moisture (rain) and is mildew resistant. It's got a little gain and has a very nice projection surface. It's my go to choice for value and quality for outdoor use.

I would suggest that you read through the this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/159-o...or-screen.html

It's very similar to what you want to do and as a build thread, it will walk you through most of the questions that you will have or that will pop up. He does use a slightly larger scope sized screen, 9' x 21' - 272" diagonal. He was able to buy a refurbished Epson G7500U.

Here's a picture of the G7500 on his 272" scope screen:




Last edited by b curry; 06-02-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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post #6 of 13 Old 06-02-2019, 08:38 AM
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As @rekbones notes, CIH greatly reduces your options. As @b curry notes, you could greatly benefit from a brighter projector with so large a screen, but the brighter projectors <$2,000 do not have power zoom lenses for CIH. When you set conflicting performance and price parameters it's like painting yourself into a corner.

The good thing here is that you already have an indoor projection setup so you already know how ambient light washes out a projected image. If you are marginal on image brightness with your outdoor setup even a full moon would impact the image, let alone nearby street lights or trying to start movies any time before pure darkness. You need to apply your indoor projection experience to your outdoor project and have realistic expectations that may require some compromise.

You say your outdoor projector will be "on ceiling." It sounds as if you plan to have the projector mounted under a porch or overhang ceiling where it would be somewhat protected from the elements. Depending on the exact details there could be issues with a permanently mounted outdoor projector collecting dew from changing temperature and humidity. Not sure if home projector warranties cover outdoor mounting.
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post #7 of 13 Old 06-02-2019, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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b_curry, you sir/madam, are a life saver! That build answered a lot of questions! A couple remain though, do you know how he did vertical stretch with that projector? I don’t think it has the inbuilt capability, is there a device I can buy to do that? CIH is an absolute must for me, I’m sick of the black bars!

Rekbones, Dave, thank you for your replies. I understand what you’re saying and will likely be on the lookout for deals on large venue projectors from now on...

Dave, my projector will be mounted on a porch embedded in a ceiling so not completely protected from the elements, but quite protected and decent protection from the cold, no different than being in a basement up north I suppose. I’m in the DFW area...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrseth View Post
… Dave, my projector will be mounted on a porch embedded in a ceiling so not completely protected from the elements, but quite protected and decent protection from the cold, no different than being in a basement up north I suppose. I’m in the DFW area...
Well, my up north basement never gets colder than ~65 degrees in the middle of winter and I've been in DFW when it was a heck of a lot colder than that. On the other hand I've never tried to use a projector in the kind of heat I've experienced visiting the DFW area in the middle of the summer, even in the evening hours. Of course you could always refrain from using the projector when the temperature is up around 100 degrees and you could take it down and store it inside during the winter months.
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post #9 of 13 Old 06-02-2019, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you are right, it does get pretty cold! Sorry, I wasn’t cleared, it will descend from an opening in the ceiling of a covered porch, and the opening will be closed when not in use, sort of like a projector lift. It will get some radiant heat in the winter, but I will be sure to measure the temperature and store it if it’s too low, good idea.
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post #10 of 13 Old 06-02-2019, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrseth View Post
b_curry, you sir/madam, are a life saver! That build answered a lot of questions! A couple remain though, do you know how he did vertical stretch with that projector? I don’t think it has the inbuilt capability, is there a device I can buy to do that? CIH is an absolute must for me, I’m sick of the black bars!

Rekbones, Dave, thank you for your replies. I understand what you’re saying and will likely be on the lookout for deals on large venue projectors from now on...

Dave, my projector will be mounted on a porch embedded in a ceiling so not completely protected from the elements, but quite protected and decent protection from the cold, no different than being in a basement up north I suppose. I’m in the DFW area...
He zoomed the image to fill the scope screen. That projector has booth horizontal and vertical zoom.

The Oppo Blu-ray players will do vertical stretch but you're going to need an anamorphic lens as well. Lumagen video processors will also support vertical stretch as well as custom aspect ratio's.

I believe your best bet is to look for a refurbished Z or G series Epson unit with your budget and that may still be out of range. Large venue DLP projectors will have a lamp cost that will blow your budget as well and many require 240v power supply, depends on the projector.

For the DFW area and your proposed mounting situation, you may well want to look at climate controlled mounting box. The humidity there would be my major concern. Otherwise, if you were to only use/setup the projector when watching a move and stored inside the rest of the time, you'll probably be ok.
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post #11 of 13 Old 06-02-2019, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
He zoomed the image to fill the scope screen. That projector has booth horizontal and vertical zoom.

The Oppo Blu-ray players will do vertical stretch but you're going to need an anamorphic lens as well. Lumagen video processors will also support vertical stretch as well as custom aspect ratio's.

I believe your best bet is to look for a refurbished Z or G series Epson unit with your budget and that may still be out of range. Large venue DLP projectors will have a lamp cost that will blow your budget as well and many require 240v power supply, depends on the projector.

For the DFW area and your proposed mounting situation, you may well want to look at climate controlled mounting box. The humidity there would be my major concern. Otherwise, if you were to only use/setup the projector when watching a move and stored inside the rest of the time, you'll probably be ok.
Pardon my ignorance, I don’t quite follow horizontal and vertical zoom, heard of horizontal and vertical lens shift and keystone, not zoom. Does that change the aspect ratio? I always thought that zoom meant image gets bigger or smaller but aspect ratio doesn’t change...sorry if my question is rather dumb...
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post #12 of 13 Old 06-03-2019, 05:34 AM
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Pardon my ignorance, I don’t quite follow horizontal and vertical zoom, heard of horizontal and vertical lens shift and keystone, not zoom. Does that change the aspect ratio? I always thought that zoom meant image gets bigger or smaller but aspect ratio doesn’t change...sorry if my question is rather dumb...
That particular projector has a zoom lens where the image size can be changed, larger/smaller, and the aspect ratio remains constant. So a Blu-ray source with 2.35/2.39:1 aspect with black bars could be zoomed out to have the image fill a given screen size with the black bars projected off the screen.

In addition, that particular projector also has the ability to digitally zoom on either the horizontal or vertical plane. This is often called a horizontal/vertical stretch however, Epson calls it horizontal/vertical zoom in their manual so I called it the same for consistency.

That particular projector has several functions built in that are designed to help to properly display an image when used in projector mapping, like projecting onto a curved surface, a wall corner, geometric point correction, stacked units, edge blending units, etc.

The horizontal/vertical zoom function is referenced starting on page 120 of the manual. I've attached it for your reference.

https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd51161.pdf


I see a refurbished Epson PowerLite Pro G6570WU with standard lens on their site for $1872. That unit has 5200 lumens. However it does not have a powered lens.

https://epson.com/Clearance-Center/P...p/V11H700020-N
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post #13 of 13 Old 06-04-2019, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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b_curry, you are too kind, thank you so much...I am going to step away and do some more digging, might come back with more questions, appreciate you sharing your knowledge immensely.
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