DlLP470TP 0.47 4k uhd dmd (PICO) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 07-15-2019, 03:16 AM - Thread Starter
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DlLP470TP 0.47 4k uhd dmd (PICO)

The Chinese 4K UST market has seen explosive growth since the beginning of the year, with many more products, especially in the low end segment using the TI .47 XPR chipset, due to be released in the coming months. Many of them make incredible brightness claims without providing any accurate specifications to substantiate the claims. One particular piece of information lacking is the type of chipset used.

But now we may have a clue. The attached was taken from a write up of one of these products claiming 2500 lumens. But according to TI, the pico chipset is meant for low power devices and has limited brightness capacity. So how is this possible? Or is it?

Anyone with inside knowledge care to share?
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post #2 of 14 Old 07-19-2019, 04:05 AM - Thread Starter
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DLP470TE


Here's official specs taken from a soon to be released model claiming 3000 lumens, although it remains unclear whether the higher output rating is achieved by using a colour wheel with a white segment at the expense of colouur accuracy.
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post #3 of 14 Old 07-19-2019, 06:41 AM
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DlLP470TP 0.47 4k uhd dmd (PICO)

3000 lumens may be at the high end of the brightness scale in the CONSUMER segment but is not considered high brightness in the greater projector market. Consider conference/classroom projectors or large venue projectors where lumen ratings can easily reach 5 figures.

And, yes, every one of the higher brightness 4K home models (747, UHD51ALV, TK800M) use a white segment in their color wheels to extract extra lumens. This almost always comes at the expense of color accuracy/saturation vs an RGBRGB model.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Last edited by sage11x; 07-19-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-19-2019, 09:19 AM
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I forgot to mention, the pico DMD is practically identical to the existing .47” DMD with the exception of a smaller die (smaller footprint and less heat dissipation). The pico isn’t new— it’s been listed on the TI site for well over a year now.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

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post #5 of 14 Old 07-19-2019, 07:05 PM
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if only the outside world knew how many NEW pj's are coming out locally they'll be blown away & some of them have really good quality, that's why a few guys here took the brave leap to order those locally available even though menus are in chinese. Almost most internet content vendor has released their own versions like jd, dangbei, tencent but some are mostly ODM either from appo or inovel that's why most look similar.

find something similar here?
http://www.inovel.com.cn/index.asp

so TI will be milking the 0.47 even more in the XPR arena. is it even possible to have a 0.47DMD @ TRUE 4K or a bigger chip is a must?

check out this 60K Lumens pj from appotronics, not sure what DMD its using
https://new.qq.com/omn/20190718/20190718A09QI100.html

https://av.imaschina.com/show/40/22971.html

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post #6 of 14 Old 07-20-2019, 08:16 AM
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I’ve been keeping an eye on the Chinese makes. It’s an exciting segment but— with a couple notable exceptions— the quality just isn’t there yet. Vincent Teoh has covered a number of the UST models coming out of China and he seems impressed with the device itself but seems to always be let down by the performance (color, picture controls, etc). Still, it’s only a matter of time before they catch up.

The .47 uses TI’s TRP pixel architecture. It’s essentially a smaller micro mirror with only a 5.4 μm pitch and a more aggressive 17 degree tilt angle. This is the same pixel architecture used on the larger .66 DMD. The difference is the .47 has only 2 million mirrors so each mirror is responsible for producing 4 on screen pixels while the .66 features 4 million mirrors so each mirror is only responsible for producing 2 onscreen pixels.

A larger native 4K DMD which doesn’t need to employ pixel shifting to get to 4K is certainly possible— but I doubt we’ll see one anytime soon. A larger DMD requires a more powerful light source and a larger lens which necessitates a larger chassis and this would all add up to a pretty expensive projector. I’m not sure if an expensive, native 4K DLP would be able to compete in the current market. While companies like BenQ do sell some high priced home models (the HT9060 comes to mind) those models are almost always a value choice as they typically employ exotic light engines at the fraction of the cost of competing LCOS models. DLP is almost always the value proposition.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #7 of 14 Old 07-21-2019, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

A larger native 4K DMD which doesn’t need to employ pixel shifting to get to 4K is certainly possible— but I doubt we’ll see one anytime soon. A larger DMD requires a more powerful light source and a larger lens which necessitates a larger chassis and this would all add up to a pretty expensive projector.
Yes, a true 4K needs a bigger chip just like the one above that uses a 1.38" DMD chip.
& I guess it's not for the general consumption


https://e2e.ti.com/support/dlp/f/94/t/733531

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post #8 of 14 Old 07-21-2019, 08:39 PM
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DlLP470TP 0.47 4k uhd dmd (PICO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelee View Post
Yes, a true 4K needs a bigger chip just like the one above that uses a 1.38" DMD chip.
& I guess it's not for the general consumption


https://e2e.ti.com/support/dlp/f/94/t/733531


That is a commercial DMD. The pixel pitch is much larger (7.57 micron) than the TRP units. I know very little about DLP when it comes to commercial cinema.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Last edited by sage11x; 07-21-2019 at 08:47 PM.
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-24-2019, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Lumens vs nits

As 4K UST are increasingly being touted as TV replacements, more manufacturers are beginning to adopt the convention used for brightness specification: nits. Attached are are specs taken from two recently released models based on similar design, but apparently aimed at different market segments. Here's a short quiz for the more enterprising among you:


1. Which is brighter?
2. Which is priced at 3 times higher?
3. Is the same chipset used in both?

Have fun.
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post #10 of 14 Old 07-24-2019, 10:23 AM
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Nits and lumens are almost interchangeable, but nits are supposed to be a measurement of overall light per square meter, while lumens have no physically specified size. They are point origin. So, you measure the light at the screen, multiply be the square footage, and that's how many real lumens the projector is putting out.

A real 1,700 lumen projector would be a 5,824nits projector. That is, if I'm reading correctly that 1 lumen/sq. ft = 3.4262591 nits.

So, 250 nits is downright dim as it is supposed to be a measurement of one square meter. Any projector advertised in 'NITS' should be doing so over a single square meter as that's the proper standardization measurement for nits, and since projectors don't actually have a defined 'size' or a brightness that can be measured without size, then the only measurement that matters is the light that is produced at the lens, which is better measured in lumens.

A movie theater is around 50 nits on screen brightness, which is in line with the typical 13-17 lumens per square foot that is called for.

Televisions can reach 1,500 nits peak. But tend to be in the 500-700 nits range for normal operation.

When people give measurement of 'nits' in projector reviews, and they do so without letting us know the screen size as well as their measurement standards, they haven't actually told us anything at all about the projector's brightness and what we can expect with our own screen and our screen size. Even worse, we are stuck measuring backwards to figure out how much light the projector actually gives out from the point light source and then calculating to our specific screen size and our specific screen gain.

nits + projectors = nonsense.
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-01-2019, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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9000 Lumens .47' DMD

That's right, 9000 lumens. TI must be proud of this latest achievement.
Are we witnessing the dawn of another great leap forward in chinese technological advance.....
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post #12 of 14 Old 08-01-2019, 06:29 PM
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9000 Lumens = Chinese Lumens = divide by 4 lol

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post #13 of 14 Old 08-23-2019, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Pro or regular?

There appears to be a new trend in the chinese UST market; the release of a regular and pro version of the same product. The latest example being this hotly anticipated model.

Assuming the specs are correctly stated, the only difference appears to be 100 times better contrast, and 10% higher lumens output, despite using similarly rated Nichia light source. How can this be achieved? Using a colour wheel with extra white segment?

The pro version is priced 30% higher. Should one go for it?
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post #14 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 02:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Found on some chinese forum. Could raise some interesting questions if true.
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