Is the 5050 the only choice? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-15-2019, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the 5050 the only choice?

Was really hoping to not have to make this post, but about 10 months ago a lightning strike took out HDMI one on my 8700UB, only to be finished off for good by a second lightning strike this past Saturday (along with a bevy of my other HT gear, both times.)

-Light controlled room, dark grey walls
-Seymour AV acoustic screen 1.0 gain, 120"
-12' throw and seating distance
-Lens shift (vertical) is 3'4" at 12' (7'10" to lens center, 4'6" to screen center)
-Primary uses are PS4 Pro gaming (still very casual use), Netflix streaming, BluRay through PS4 Pro, and DirecTV in that order. I do not do any online gaming, so I'm not particularly concerned about lag times, etc.

I was very happy with my 8700UB, and were it not for catastrophe, would not be looking to replace it. While I would like 4K capability, my only real disappointment with the 8700UB was what I perceived to be washed out blacks.

With a $3K price cap, I thought the 5040UB was my answer until I came across the overwhelming power supply issues. Is there really any other option for me in that sub-$3K price point other than the 5050UB? My understanding is that the mounting location/lens shift limitations will rule out the BenQ HT5500 unit, and that seems like the only true competition to the 5050UB since none of the JVC units come in at under $3k.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. I don't mind any budget friendly options, since I've probably lost $10K worth of household electronics and appliances in the past 10 months!
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post #2 of 33 Old 07-15-2019, 10:30 PM
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What’s wrong with the 5050ub? Look in the deals thread, and you’ll see where I tipped off to where you could find one cheap.

I replaced my 8700UB with it, and it arrives tomorrow. I loved my 8700UB too, but it was developing some issues which forced a replacement.

The on paper specs of the 5050UB absolutely cream the 8700UB. I doubt doubt it would be a big upgrade, even for just 1080p....
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post #3 of 33 Old 07-15-2019, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermatch View Post
Was really hoping to not have to make this post, but about 10 months ago a lightning strike took out HDMI one on my 8700UB, only to be finished off for good by a second lightning strike this past Saturday (along with a bevy of my other HT gear, both times.)

-Light controlled room, dark grey walls
-Seymour AV acoustic screen 1.0 gain, 120"
-12' throw and seating distance
-Lens shift (vertical) is 3'4" at 12' (7'10" to lens center, 4'6" to screen center)
-Primary uses are PS4 Pro gaming (still very casual use), Netflix streaming, BluRay through PS4 Pro, and DirecTV in that order. I do not do any online gaming, so I'm not particularly concerned about lag times, etc.

I was very happy with my 8700UB, and were it not for catastrophe, would not be looking to replace it. While I would like 4K capability, my only real disappointment with the 8700UB was what I perceived to be washed out blacks.

With a $3K price cap, I thought the 5040UB was my answer until I came across the overwhelming power supply issues. Is there really any other option for me in that sub-$3K price point other than the 5050UB? My understanding is that the mounting location/lens shift limitations will rule out the BenQ HT5500 unit, and that seems like the only true competition to the 5050UB since none of the JVC units come in at under $3k.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. I don't mind any budget friendly options, since I've probably lost $10K worth of household electronics and appliances in the past 10 months!
The HT5550 has 60% vertical lens shift and should fit your requirements:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Ben...ulator-pro.htm

The JVC UH1 should work as well:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC...ulator-pro.htm (they seem to have the horizontal and vertical shift mixed up).

If you can mod the mounting point the BenQ HT3550 and Optoma UHD50/51A could work as well.

Last edited by DunMunro; 07-15-2019 at 10:46 PM.
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post #4 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 02:30 AM
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Your room is pretty well light controlled with it's dark grey walls so the logical choice would be the one which gave you the best range of contrast plus give you the best future proofing as possible for the price.

The 5050ub has the best HDR at this price point plus it has decent black levels, they aren't JVC levels but for the majority of movies and scene the difference isn't huge and it's only in the darkest of scene where this will be most noticeable. Where the DLP projectors win out over the Epson is motion able but as you are an Epson owner you are probably use this and by all accounts the latest Epson is even better now, the other benefit of the DLPs is they provide 8 million pixels compared to the Epson's 4 million.... I know this sounds a lot but the reality is at normal viewing distances i.e 9-10ft from 100" screen you will not see a difference as I did the test against a Sony Native 4K where me and it's owner couldn't see the difference and had to move our viewing distance to 6ft to see it.

The only real negatives with DLP is black levels which are generally poor, the Epson is roughly 5-8 times better, the other potential issue is rainbow effect.... this is clearly a minor issue and only affects a few people but if it affects you then you will not be able to live with it so definitely try before you buy and if you notice it walk away.

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post #5 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post
What’s wrong with the 5050ub? Look in the deals thread, and you’ll see where I tipped off to where you could find one cheap.

I replaced my 8700UB with it, and it arrives tomorrow. I loved my 8700UB too, but it was developing some issues which forced a replacement.

The on paper specs of the 5050UB absolutely cream the 8700UB. I doubt doubt it would be a big upgrade, even for just 1080p....
Nothing wrong with the 5050 - it just seemed like a clear cut winner at a price point that I assumed would have more competition as the 8700UB did many years ago. My only real hesitation, is did they fix the power supply issue that plagued the 40 series?

Luminated: At 12' and 120", my eyes had to move to a few feet just to notice any real pixellation. I'd imagine that even "fake" 4K will be a significant improvement that I'd be more than happy with. With the dark walls and all windows covered up, there's virtually no light leakage, so if the 5050 is an improvement over the older Epsons, that'd likely be enough to make me happy.
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post #6 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 05:24 AM
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you are right, man
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post #7 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 05:41 AM
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The Sony 45es might be worth considering. Its native contrast is on par with the Epson although dynamically the Epson is better. The Sony is 1/2 the price of the Epson and with LCOS tech should be better then your current Epson. 4K has a long way to go in projectors so it might be better to wait another generation. The 5050 is the clear cut upgrade or maybe snag a clearance or used JVC if you really want to spend $3k.

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post #8 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
The Sony 45es might be worth considering. Its native contrast is on par with the Epson although dynamically the Epson is better. The Sony is 1/2 the price of the Epson and with LCOS tech should be better then your current Epson. 4K has a long way to go in projectors so it might be better to wait another generation. The 5050 is the clear cut upgrade or maybe snag a clearance or used JVC if you really want to spend $3k.
I concur, it you really don't need 4K then the Sony 45es is perfect, I still have mine sitting and on 1080p stuff the difference is minimal.

I posted else where on the 5050/6050 thread two photo of Lucy 1080P from both the Sony and Epson 9400, it’s remarkable just how similar this still photo looks from both projectors.




As a still image I actually think the Sony has it (btw it’s the image on top) but as a moving image the Epson just nicks it, slightly better contrast and ever so slightly sharper. But if you were only interested in 1080P stuff then if you can get the Sony at half the price it’s well worth checking out at the very least.
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post #9 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 07:37 AM
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There are quite a few projectors which will hit a 120" diagonal from 12' away right now. You will need to adjust your projector height some perhaps, but not the distance from lens to screen...

https://www.projectorcentral.com/pro...=pop&sz=15#top

The 8700, back in the day, had almost no competition when it came to position, just as the 5050 doesn't today. The lens offset of the Epson projectors, is second to none and they haven't dropped from the top spot in well over 10 years.

The biggest competition to Epson's models came from Panasonic, but Panasonic is no longer in the home cinema market, so that's why you feel like there are fewer choices.

Still, if you are right at about $3,000 I would look hard at the Epson 5050, and I might take a look around for a JVC RS440 / DLA590 model if you can get it for the money.

If the 8700UB has no issues, then upgrading at all may not make a lot of sense for another couple of years, but coming from a solid model like the 8700UB, then the 5050 is a very solid step. Slightly forwards. It will not be a night and day improvement overall, but certainly won't be a step backwards and is a appropriate way to go.

I think the DLP models will be a step backwards in terms of contrast, while likely an improvement in motion handling. DLP is wicked fast. But, leaves a lot to be desired in terms of contrast.

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post #10 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 08:50 AM
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AV, do you really think the 5050UB vs the 8700UB is slight and not night and day overall? I can say "overall" it should be night and day (see list below). But for black levels? Brightness levels? Detail? Those are the big open questions on how it compares to the 8700 UB for me. My expectations are that each one should be "significant."

I should be able to inform you guys by tonight as it arrives anytime.

Here's on paper vs on paper.

1) The 5050UB absolutely destroys the 8700UB in latency. 28ms vs 85m-ish. You could actually competitively game on a 5050UB.

2) The 5050UB has a contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 vs the 8700UB's 200,000:1. The 5050UB should have inkier blacks.

3) The 5050UB has 2600 lumens, while the 8700UB has 1600 lumens. The 5050UB should be much brighter.

4) The 5050UB has 3D, the 8700UB does not.

5) The 5050UB has psuedo-4k, the 8700UB does not. This "should" give the 5050UB a slight edge in sharpness (my expectation, and it seems to align).

6) The 5050UB has HDR, which is arguably more important than 4k. The 8700 does not.

7) The 5050UB seems to have quite a plethora of settings. Hell, you can adjust your convergence! The 8700UB is more of a lotto-system with convergence (get what you get).

8) The 5050UB has motion interpolation. The 8700UB does not. I hate this, so I don't care about it.

9) The 5050UB has lens memory for different aspect ratios. I don't care about this.

Look above and count which ones are meaningful to you. For me, the first 7 were.

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post #11 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, all. I am going to give the Sony/1080 units some real thought. It's hard to justify double the cost on what I feel is still "compromised" 4K, and you've noted, it may be worth waiting a generation for the 4K projector scene to really come into its own. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't uneasy about the Epson reliability problems from the 40 series, in addition to seeing a VERY sub-par lamp life out of my own unit.
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post #12 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 09:15 AM
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I used to be in the camp where I thought 4k pixel-shifting was "compromise", but honestly, have you looked at some 4k vs 1080p captures on a really good monitor yet? For most movies (especially catalogue titles), there really isn't THAT much of a difference for it to be placed as a top priority IMO. What I did seem to notice more was HDR, which the 5050UB 100% supports.

I implore you to take a look at this blog and check out all the movies he has captured (both new and old):

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/0...ray-blade.html

Keep in mind they are zooming in on digital images...imagine real-world sitting back in your seating position with it being projected...

Imagine 4k pixel-shifting being somewhere in the middle...I think you'd agree that 4k isn't all that special as it's made out to be.

Reliability problems is not a concern with Epson's 2-year warrantee. No talks about power supply issues with the 5050UB (nor with the overseas version that has been out several months longer) thus far...

BTW, I was seeing VERY subpar lamp life with my 8700UB...I would barely get into the 1,000 range, even with high altitude on for improved cooling. As soon as I mounted it to the ceiling, I would get several thousand easily and consistently. My 8700UB sips on the bulbs when hung upside down for some reason...must have something to do with improved airflow.

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post #13 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 09:24 AM
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Very sad day last night as I removed my 8700UB from service after 9 long years. So many memories and showings!

I'm currently giving it to some friends since it's a little finnicky. When it works, it stays working, but quite often it will shut off and flash two red lights after some iris noise. You'd have to restart it to get it to work again, and sometimes even again.
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post #14 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post
I used to be in the camp where I thought 4k pixel-shifting was "compromise", but honestly, have you looked at some 4k vs 1080p captures on a really good monitor yet? For most movies (especially catalogue titles), there really isn't THAT much of a difference for it to be placed as a top priority IMO. What I did seem to notice more was HDR, which the 5050UB 100% supports.

I implore you to take a look at this blog and check out all the movies he has captured (both new and old):

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/0...ray-blade.html

Keep in mind they are zooming in on digital images...imagine real-world sitting back in your seating position with it being projected...

Imagine 4k pixel-shifting being somewhere in the middle...I think you'd agree that 4k isn't all that special as it's made out to be.

Reliability problems is not a concern with Epson's 2-year warrantee. No talks about power supply issues with the 5050UB (nor with the overseas version that has been out several months longer) thus far...

BTW, I was seeing VERY subpar lamp life with my 8700UB...I would barely get into the 1,000 range, even with high altitude on for improved cooling. As soon as I mounted it to the ceiling, I would get several thousand easily and consistently. My 8700UB sips on the bulbs when hung upside down for some reason...must have something to do with improved airflow.
Thank you, that was a great link. There's even less distinction than I thought there would be.

Part of what concerned me on the Epson warranty was that they would not extend the warranty when they were providing repairs or refurbs. That scared me, and I did not have a great experience dealing with Epson customer service in the past (when they were supposed to provide the free replacement bulb). My 8700UB was mounted upside down from the ceiling, and short of being in an enclosure, there's no reason any bulb should be failing in sub-1400 hours, especially when running fairly low brightness levels!

I am leaning more and more towards the 45ES. With Crutchfield offering factory refurbs with the full 3 year Sony warranty at $1200, I struggle to believe that the Epson is 2 1/2 times better. And considering I seem to spend less and less time in the theater these days, would have to run new HDMI cables and upgrade internet service to really take advantage of 4K, I'm finding it hard to pull the trigger on the 5050 where normally I click buy and ask the wife for forgiveness later!
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post #15 of 33 Old 07-16-2019, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermatch View Post
Thank you, that was a great link. There's even less distinction than I thought there would be.

Part of what concerned me on the Epson warranty was that they would not extend the warranty when they were providing repairs or refurbs. That scared me, and I did not have a great experience dealing with Epson customer service in the past (when they were supposed to provide the free replacement bulb). My 8700UB was mounted upside down from the ceiling, and short of being in an enclosure, there's no reason any bulb should be failing in sub-1400 hours, especially when running fairly low brightness levels!

I am leaning more and more towards the 45ES. With Crutchfield offering factory refurbs with the full 3 year Sony warranty at $1200, I struggle to believe that the Epson is 2 1/2 times better. And considering I seem to spend less and less time in the theater these days, would have to run new HDMI cables and upgrade internet service to really take advantage of 4K, I'm finding it hard to pull the trigger on the 5050 where normally I click buy and ask the wife for forgiveness later!
One thing to remember is that the blog was comparing 1080p upscaled to 4K versus 4K, not 1080p native versus 4K. I find that 1080p 4k upscaled to my UHD50 looks considerably better than 1080p native on my HC1040.

The cheap way to upgrade to 4K is via a 4K BD player, that will also upscale your existing DVDs and BDs (I purchased a refurb Sony UBP-X700 that works quite well with HDMI video and a 2nd HDMI audio output) that has lots of 4K streaming apps and run the HDMI direct to your PJ and the aux HDMI audio or coax to your amp. 15mbs internet is typically sufficient for 4K streaming although 25 is better.
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post #16 of 33 Old 07-17-2019, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermatch View Post
Thank you, that was a great link. There's even less distinction than I thought there would be.

Part of what concerned me on the Epson warranty was that they would not extend the warranty when they were providing repairs or refurbs. That scared me, and I did not have a great experience dealing with Epson customer service in the past (when they were supposed to provide the free replacement bulb). My 8700UB was mounted upside down from the ceiling, and short of being in an enclosure, there's no reason any bulb should be failing in sub-1400 hours, especially when running fairly low brightness levels!

I am leaning more and more towards the 45ES. With Crutchfield offering factory refurbs with the full 3 year Sony warranty at $1200, I struggle to believe that the Epson is 2 1/2 times better. And considering I seem to spend less and less time in the theater these days, would have to run new HDMI cables and upgrade internet service to really take advantage of 4K, I'm finding it hard to pull the trigger on the 5050 where normally I click buy and ask the wife for forgiveness later!
Did you look at my photos comparing both the Sony and the Epson, with 1080P stuff the differences between them is slight at best, yes when it’s not a paused image the Epson is a little crisper and the black levels a bit darker with better contrast but I’m nitpicking here because to the untrained eye they would think it’s one and the same machine.

It’s not really until you throw the Epson a UHD 4K disc that the differences become apparent, then the level of detail on offer is shocking.



The image zoomed in.



If you don’t feel it’s worth spending the extra based on the amount of times watching stuff I can fully understand your thoughts on this and trust me you will not be disappointed with the Sony but if you question if 4K makes it better then in my opinion the answer is a definite YES.

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post #17 of 33 Old 07-17-2019, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for all the input. After finding out from the HVAC contractors today that I need a new furnace due to the lightning strike, in addition to needing a new AV receiver, my wallet did the deciding for me. Ordered up the Sony 45ES, as well as a Marantz SR6013 that I found a good deal on to replace the fried Onkyo.
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post #18 of 33 Old 07-17-2019, 07:42 PM
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Hope you have a good insurance policy as it should cover everything after your deductible.
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post #19 of 33 Old 07-18-2019, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermatch View Post
Thanks again for all the input. After finding out from the HVAC contractors today that I need a new furnace due to the lightning strike, in addition to needing a new AV receiver, my wallet did the deciding for me. Ordered up the Sony 45ES, as well as a Marantz SR6013 that I found a good deal on to replace the fried Onkyo.
You will not be disappointed by the Sony because I wasn't and prior to purchase the store demoed it side by side with an Optoma UHD60 with it's 8 million pixels and in my opinion the Sony was the better image by far.

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post #20 of 33 Old 07-18-2019, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
...
The only real negatives with DLP is black levels which are generally poor, the Epson is roughly 5-8 times better, the other potential issue is rainbow effect.... this is clearly a minor issue and only affects a few people but if it affects you then you will not be able to live with it so definitely try before you buy and if you notice it walk away.
Re the rainbow effect, I have an Epson 9500 so don't know what it is, and whether it's a dealbreaker, but have read about it. If I watch movies with different people, should I be concerned that the rainbow effect will affect them? Or do I just buy a projector that suits me and not care about whether my guests will be affected?

This whole rainbow thing has me confused.

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post #21 of 33 Old 07-18-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post
Re the rainbow effect, I have an Epson 9500 so don't know what it is, and whether it's a dealbreaker, but have read about it. If I watch movies with different people, should I be concerned that the rainbow effect will affect them? Or do I just buy a projector that suits me and not care about whether my guests will be affected?

This whole rainbow thing has me confused.
I have and have had several DLP projectors including some older units with slow colour wheels. Over a decade or so I have had dozens of guests over to view movies etc, and not one has ever mentioned seeing anything odd or anything resembling RBE. Yes, some experienced viewers can see RBE but the vast majority of the population cannot. Modern DLPs use higher speed colour wheels and are much less prone to RBE than in the past.

RBE is only really an issue because it is a talking point against DLP, but very few people are actually bothered by it.
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post #22 of 33 Old 07-19-2019, 08:55 AM
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AV, do you really think the 5050UB vs the 8700UB is slight and not night and day overall? I can say "overall" it should be night and day (see list below). But for black levels? Brightness levels? Detail? Those are the big open questions on how it compares to the 8700 UB for me. My expectations are that each one should be "significant."

I should be able to inform you guys by tonight as it arrives anytime.

Here's on paper vs on paper.

1) The 5050UB absolutely destroys the 8700UB in latency. 28ms vs 85m-ish. You could actually competitively game on a 5050UB.

2) The 5050UB has a contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 vs the 8700UB's 200,000:1. The 5050UB should have inkier blacks.

3) The 5050UB has 2600 lumens, while the 8700UB has 1600 lumens. The 5050UB should be much brighter.

4) The 5050UB has 3D, the 8700UB does not.

5) The 5050UB has psuedo-4k, the 8700UB does not. This "should" give the 5050UB a slight edge in sharpness (my expectation, and it seems to align).

6) The 5050UB has HDR, which is arguably more important than 4k. The 8700 does not.

7) The 5050UB seems to have quite a plethora of settings. Hell, you can adjust your convergence! The 8700UB is more of a lotto-system with convergence (get what you get).

8) The 5050UB has motion interpolation. The 8700UB does not. I hate this, so I don't care about it.

9) The 5050UB has lens memory for different aspect ratios. I don't care about this.

Look above and count which ones are meaningful to you. For me, the first 7 were.
I think the list your provided is meaningful, but does not necessarily constitute 'night and day'. Not that I dismiss the list either. If I were to buy new, the 5050 is certainly up there on the list of models I would recommend. But, whether or not it really delivers all the time.

Point by point...
1) If latency matters, then this matters. If you never game on a 8700, then it may be the last thing someone would care about.

2) The 5050 doesn't have 1,000,000:1 just like the 8700 doesn't have 200,000:1. Manufacturer BS rarely changes. Blacks/brights are definitely better on the 5050, if your screen size needs it and if the room supports it. But, the 5x contrast boost may mostly be a drop in black from 1 lux to .2 lux. Contrast is now 5 times better. But, the room has to support that .2 lux black level to even matter. Mostly, brightness is the big improvement.

3) I like brighter models and this is perhaps the biggest jump we have seen, across the board, for all projectors in general. But, on a 100" or 120" screen in a dark theater, this is a lot of money to spend for that brightness.

4) 3D is like gaming. For those that want it, then it's an upgrade and worthwhile. For those that don't care, it's irrelevant.

5) Pixel shifting UHD is certainly something I recommend. It's an improvement for sure. As long as you aren't just streaming all your content and coming from a quality source.

6) 10-bit and 12-bit color that UHD is supposed to deliver is certainly the hallmark of UHD and the most important factor of the UHD upgrade. As long as you play content on a regular basis which takes advantage of this. Sporting events don't. Most streaming does not. So, it's a limited feature set. Once again, it's a lot to spend at this time, on a limited feature set, and will depend on seriousness of making a radical change to viewing habits.

7) If the 8700UB that someone owns has good convergence, then this may not matter. Glad that Epson has corrected for this over the years.

8) CFI is something some love and some hate. Just like an auto iris.

9) Just like many other features, lens memory - use it or it is a mostly useless feature.

I'm not at all complaining about the 5050. It's a very solid projector and for the money is the model that many will go for. But, for those upgrading from a quality 1080p projector they may not find that the 5050 is as much of an upgrade as they were hoping for. If they just watch HDTV and some movies from Blu-ray, and they own no HDR content (yet), then the user experience not be that giant leap forward that they were hoping for.

I went from a BenQ W1070 to my JVC X590. The jump in black level performance was tremendous. But, there was also a great deal which was similar. Single chip, cheap DLP vs. LCoS 3-chip. It's pretty crazy how good all these things look already.

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post #23 of 33 Old 07-19-2019, 08:59 AM
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Re the rainbow effect, I have an Epson 9500 so don't know what it is, and whether it's a dealbreaker, but have read about it. If I watch movies with different people, should I be concerned that the rainbow effect will affect them? Or do I just buy a projector that suits me and not care about whether my guests will be affected?

This whole rainbow thing has me confused.
Make sure you understand that the rainbow effect (RBE) or color breakup, is only a feature of single chip DLP projectors.

I clearly see RBE in DLP projectors, and I still owned one for years and enjoyed it.

All that matters is that your family is fine with whatever projector you get. Some people are so impacted by RBE that it gives them headaches. But, if it's not your family, then who really cares?

I would not go from a 9500 to a DLP projector though. I would go to the 5050 or a JVC or Sony (LCoS) to get some serious improvements.
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post #24 of 33 Old 07-19-2019, 09:41 AM
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I think the list your provided is meaningful, but does not necessarily constitute 'night and day'. Not that I dismiss the list either. If I were to buy new, the 5050 is certainly up there on the list of models I would recommend. But, whether or not it really delivers all the time.
I guess we are at linguistics.

I've now owned the 5050 for 3 days. I've gamed on it, and I've previewed quite a bit of 1080p Blu-ray content.

The 5050UB is more than a "slight" upgrade over the 8700UB for 1080p content. It is a "significant" upgrade. The brightness and colors are legions above the 8700. Going to a 5050UB is like watching a fireworks show--it's booming with vividness and contrast. The 8700UB is like reading a map under the sunset in comparison. Both are great pictures, but just from contrast and colors alone, watching 1080p content through the 5050UB is significantly better. If you add the point that you have Image Enhancement, it makes my point even more true. Image Enhancement IMO is the secret sauce feature that increases the pop/sharpness without causing any ill effect. It actually adds detail in the image. The 5050UB is significantly better over the 8700UB in picture quality for 1080p sources (non-HDR, non UHD, etc).

I also get this sense with the 5050UB....that it has more "headroom" over the 8700UB for the amount of detail that is perceivable with Blu-rays. I'm trying to make sense with this statement. I feel as though I can now start seeing that Blu-rays could actually be better, where as watching blu-rays with the 8700UB it seemed that the 8700UB was kinda at it's peak of how much detail it could actually show through. Maybe this makes sense. In essence, the 5050UB is buying for the future.

When you take the whole list I created, and check off what applies to you then you may have a night and day difference. My theater room is first and foremost a movie presentation room. But when I'm not doing that, I'm gaming. So you can check me down most of the list that applies to me, and I'm leaning towards a night and day difference--and I haven't even hooked a 4K up to it yet, tried 3D, nor have tried HDR.

If you are a person that wants to stay with 1080p content, doesn't care about gaming latency, doesn't care about HDR, doesn't care about 3D, doesn't game, already has a working and functioning 1080p projector that pleases you, then obviously the choice is to not buy anything else? Seems like the OP was considering gaining some functionality, and was asking the right questions.

I was ready to move on....I was actually "forced" to move on.

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post #25 of 33 Old 07-22-2019, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Hope you have a good insurance policy as it should cover everything after your deductible.

Sadly, I will be paying out of pocket most likely. Can't risk getting dropped/stuck switching to catastrophic coverage. 2 other claims (hail damaged roof, and a caved in kitchen ceiling courtesy of my daughter) in < 9 years will do that to you!



Unfortunately I found out that it also took out my 20 year old subwoofer stuffed-in-a-box Dayton plate amp, so the test run is on hold until the SA230 replacement arrives. Hopefully get my first test run with my backup BluRay player this coming weekend. I have also picked up a Panamax M4300 line conditioner/surge protector for the bulk of the electronics, and a Tripp Lite AV2FP for the projector ceiling outlet for some improved protection. I also lucked out and found an $1100 Mid Atlantic 2 post AV component rack with 5 shelves on Craigslist for $70 (nice fellow who saved it when remodeling a bank that used it for their waiting area AV, then decided it was taking up room in his garage), which has now given me some much needed component organization behind the door to the screen's false wall.


I did get the Sony mounted and adjusted, though. Thankfully I was able to reuse my Sanus mount with just some new M5 screws and reconfiguring the 4 arm mount to 3. The Sony had more than enough lens shift and zoom to compensate without any issue. When I built my room initially, I laser-located the centerline of the projector lens, and needed < 4" of lateral lens shift at the screen to compensate. The Epson had a lot of play/low resistance in the adjustment range just outside the "zero" setting, and consequently, liked to jump back to center on occasion. The Sony lens shift controls still had play, but had a much more robust/resisted feel to the dials and stay put. Coupled with the lens being centered as opposed to the 8700's offset, that's one improvement, even if its a small one.
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post #26 of 33 Old 07-24-2019, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Just checking in. Got everything hooked up for a test run through a cheapie Samsung giveaway BD player. The jump in quality from the Epson 8700 to the Sony is, in my opinion, the most significant that I've seen since the introduction of 1080P over standard definition. The Sony is definitely substantially clearer, but the ability of the Motion Control settings to eliminate any sort of choppiness from panning scenes/rapid on screen movement has honestly renewed my desire to find the time to sit in that theater. I threw "Brave" in for a test run, and it looks like I can reach out and touch the characters. If I stand a few feet away from my screen, I can make the texture of the screen out long before any sort of resolution issues or pixellation. I'm sure the Epson 5050 is capable of producing an incredible image, but for $1200, I am blown away by just how good this projector looks in my room.



Thanks to everyone for their input, especially those of you who recommended the Sony, which wasn't even on my radar when I started my search. You guys saved me a LOT of money, and I am in love with my purchase.
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post #27 of 33 Old 07-25-2019, 05:33 AM
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Just checking in. Got everything hooked up for a test run through a cheapie Samsung giveaway BD player. The jump in quality from the Epson 8700 to the Sony is, in my opinion, the most significant that I've seen since the introduction of 1080P over standard definition. The Sony is definitely substantially clearer, but the ability of the Motion Control settings to eliminate any sort of choppiness from panning scenes/rapid on screen movement has honestly renewed my desire to find the time to sit in that theater. I threw "Brave" in for a test run, and it looks like I can reach out and touch the characters. If I stand a few feet away from my screen, I can make the texture of the screen out long before any sort of resolution issues or pixellation. I'm sure the Epson 5050 is capable of producing an incredible image, but for $1200, I am blown away by just how good this projector looks in my room.



Thanks to everyone for their input, especially those of you who recommended the Sony, which wasn't even on my radar when I started my search. You guys saved me a LOT of money, and I am in love with my purchase.
Happy ending. I had three TVs hit by lightning in 4 years and someone on here directed me to this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The only warning I'll give is that you'll have to find another reason besides lightning to upgrade as I have an 8 y.o. penny plasma now that I wish I could replace with OLED but its going strong with no sign of quitting (maybe I'll unhook the Eaton for a few days!). You'll have to have an electrician or someone very familiar with electrical work hook it up for you but then all your electronics will last forever.
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post #28 of 33 Old 07-25-2019, 09:06 AM
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Happy ending. I had three TVs hit by lightning in 4 years and someone on here directed me to this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The only warning I'll give is that you'll have to find another reason besides lightning to upgrade as I have an 8 y.o. penny plasma now that I wish I could replace with OLED but its going strong with no sign of quitting (maybe I'll unhook the Eaton for a few days!). You'll have to have an electrician or someone very familiar with electrical work hook it up for you but then all your electronics will last forever.
Unfortunately surge suppression won't save you from 90% of you typical lightning strike damage. The most common damage is caused by static induced pulse form near lightning strikes. It effects low voltage connections the most especially long cable runs as the appliances don't even need to be plugged into the AC to get hit.

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post #29 of 33 Old 07-25-2019, 09:39 AM
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Unfortunately surge suppression won't save you from 90% of you typical lightning strike damage. The most common damage is caused by static induced pulse form near lightning strikes. It effects low voltage connections the most especially long cable runs as the appliances don't even need to be plugged into the AC to get hit.
Power supplies in high end electronics fail due to under voltage more than spikes...rural power supplies, hydroelectric power and power companies switching from bank A to B are all significant wear on electronics...this box mitigates all of that. Whether luck or skill this device has saved all my electronics for the past 8 years and it was annual replacement before that.
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post #30 of 33 Old 07-25-2019, 10:25 AM
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Just checking in. Got everything hooked up for a test run through a cheapie Samsung giveaway BD player. The jump in quality from the Epson 8700 to the Sony is, in my opinion, the most significant that I've seen since the introduction of 1080P over standard definition. The Sony is definitely substantially clearer, but the ability of the Motion Control settings to eliminate any sort of choppiness from panning scenes/rapid on screen movement has honestly renewed my desire to find the time to sit in that theater. I threw "Brave" in for a test run, and it looks like I can reach out and touch the characters. If I stand a few feet away from my screen, I can make the texture of the screen out long before any sort of resolution issues or pixellation. I'm sure the Epson 5050 is capable of producing an incredible image, but for $1200, I am blown away by just how good this projector looks in my room.



Thanks to everyone for their input, especially those of you who recommended the Sony, which wasn't even on my radar when I started my search. You guys saved me a LOT of money, and I am in love with my purchase.
That was me, glad you like. It’s an exceptional projector which is why it’s my backup PJ if anything happens the Epson.

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