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post #1 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Opinions on Projector Choices - Please

Hey all,
I am just looking for some opinions and factoids or reasons for the said opinion.

I currently have an Optoma HD142x, which I do not like very much. I am looking at replacing it as I thought my Viewsonic PJD7820HD was better and was disappointed with the 142x.

I am trying to find a better, higher quality projector.

I don't think I care about 4k all that much, but it never hurts to be ahead of the game with new tech so long as it's working as it should. If a dedicated/full/real 1080p would be better than 4k trickery, then I may prefer 1080p over 4k.

That being said I am trying to decide between:

BenQ HT2150ST - My fear is the lumens won't make for great daylight viewing as we have lots of ambient light during the day which isn't usually an issue but I always have 3k+ lumens. I know lumens are the end all be all, but 2200-2400 seems too low on paper, so if anyone could chime in on daylight viewing it might help relieve the fear(s). I couldn't find much during my searching for images or videos of daylight viewing

BenQ HT4050 - Just read a couple of mentions on this implying it is a good projector so it is on the list

Optoma UHD50 - lots of good reviews and recommendations and 4k

Optoma HD39DARBEE - really wish I would have gone with this over the 142x, but was trying to save money. The darbee's still sound good and I am leaning this way for now.

I am somewhat hesitant to jump right back onto Optoma's wagon since the 142x has been a let down for me, but there are just so many good reviews for the darbee and uhd50.


I use my projector with my Xbox for watching movies/shows/youtube and gaming (We hook up vr to the screen and also play the Xbox). This is in a well lit livingroom whether day or night, and in the day there is quite a bit of ambient light, but this isn't usually a big issue as it's still plenty viewable.

Any other suggestions are welcome too. I am looking to spend no more than $1500, so if you think there are better options to consider, please let me know (and also pick one of those listed, please).

All input is welcome and appreciated.

Thank you
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post #2 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 04:53 AM
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The end all be all is not lumens at all, it is light control and surface treatment to control reflections in your room that is.

Simply put no projector in the world shoots out black. What they shoot out to make black is no light. No light striking a screen will look like the screen looks with the light that is in the room.

In short you don’t need a new projector as badly as you need black out blinds and paint to paint your room a darker color. Or option two is to get rid of the projector and buy a large flat panel TV with your 1500.
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post #3 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
The end all be all is not lumens at all, it is light control and surface treatment to control reflections in your room that is.

Simply put no projector in the world shoots out black. What they shoot out to make black is no light. No light striking a screen will look like the screen looks with the light that is in the room.

In short you don’t need a new projector as badly as you need black out blinds and paint to paint your room a darker color. Or option two is to get rid of the projector and buy a large flat panel TV with your 1500.
The problem is the blacks or screen in general during dark scenes. I almost can never tell what is going on because it is just way too dark. I've tried the multiple picture settings and none of them satisfy. I've tried changing the black options and adjusting the contract/brightness to no avail. It's just always too dark. I mention lumens and daylight viewing because it will be part of the package I am looking for. I would hate to fix my way too dark screen, but then have too low of quality daylight viewing, cause I'd be back here in a year asking for opinions for a new projector, lol.

So I need something that works in the daylight and the dark, but I also need to be able to see what is happening in the dark scenes, which with the 142x, I have not been able to do so. I could easily see what was happening in dark scenes on my Viewsonic.
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post #4 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by strife26 View Post
The problem is the blacks or screen in general during dark scenes. I almost can never tell what is going on because it is just way too dark. I've tried the multiple picture settings and none of them satisfy. I've tried changing the black options and adjusting the contract/brightness to no avail. It's just always too dark. I mention lumens and daylight viewing because it will be part of the package I am looking for. I would hate to fix my way too dark screen, but then have too low of quality daylight viewing, cause I'd be back here in a year asking for opinions for a new projector, lol.

So I need something that works in the daylight and the dark, but I also need to be able to see what is happening in the dark scenes, which with the 142x, I have not been able to do so. I could easily see what was happening in dark scenes on my Viewsonic.
Go to any commercial movie theater and look around. The walls are dark and the ceiling is black or very dark also. They turn the house lights off before the movie starts and there are no windows.

They do all this for a very good reason and that is so you can see those dark details in the movie.

The only people that have even limited success in brighter rooms with projection are people watching very bright colorful images like sports. Dark content needs a dark and non reflective room.

Bud
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post #5 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 05:34 AM
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I had the Optoma UHD60 and it has plenty of lumens but still was no good for daylight viewing, at least not on a regular screen (maybe with a good ALR screen it could be passable for daytime viewing). As Bud mentioned, you really need to focus on black out curtains and dark walls to get good black levels / shadow detail out of a projector. If you can't do that and you still need daylight viewing, you're better off with a flat screen tv.
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post #6 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 05:54 AM
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@strife26 , you should narrow down to if you really want 4K or not, as that will simplify your choices and budget. I have a JCV RS420, and it is awesome! But as @bud16415 and @m0j0 have mentioned, you need to control the light in your room. I had an Optoma for my fist projector, but am sensitive to RBE. I got an Epson 730HD ( I think) for a while, and did decent with ambient lighting. I then moved that projector for outside viewing. You might demo an Epson or maybe a different BenQ?
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post #7 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Go to any commercial movie theater and look around. The walls are dark and the ceiling is black or very dark also. They turn the house lights off before the movie starts and there are no windows.

They do all this for a very good reason and that is so you can see those dark details in the movie.

The only people that have even limited success in brighter rooms with projection are people watching very bright colorful images like sports. Dark content needs a dark and non reflective room.
I appreciate the answers, but this is not what I am looking for. My viewing room is how it is, and will remain that way. I am curious to know what people here would pick if they were buying it. I am buying a new projector regardless as I just don't like the 142x compared to my last 2 projectors, which were both much older.

It's my living room where we do all the things; xbox/game, movies, shows, youtube, etc. Our viewing is fine, yes a better screen, and darkening my room may help, but I don't know how pitch black at night is going to make the blacks better, when again, compared to my old projectors this one is much worse in the same or even better conditions (white wall vs a screen).

Of those referenced which might be the best for 1080p or maybe 4k setup (I have nothing set up for 4k atm and do all online viewing (no discs/disc readers) where I can enjoy it in the day and the night?
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post #8 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 06:08 AM
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As everyone has stated, you can't fight physics, no projector on the planet will work well in dark scenes with a lot of ambient light period. All of your higher contrast projectors actually require a darker room to work well. Most bright projectors sacrifice their black floor to make them brighter and will help a lot in bright scenes like sports but will be even worse in those low contrast scenes in many movies.

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post #9 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by strife26 View Post
I appreciate the answers, but this is not what I am looking for. My viewing room is how it is, and will remain that way.
I gave you my best free advice. As they say you get what you pay for.

I’m sorry I don’t have any good advice for you as it would be like asking. What sports car would be best for off road driving IMO.

If you want a projector for a bright room my guess would be to buy a business projector as that is what they are designed for. Maybe others will help you spend some money.

Bud
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post #10 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 10:38 AM
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I’ve got a 3300 lumen BenQ and just purchased the 2000 lumen ViewSonic PX725HD with the RGBRGB color wheel. The ViewSonic outperforms the BenQ even with all the lights on. Of course, the dark scenes look washed out on either of them. I had the same concerns as you and I would prefer the lower lumen, more color accurate projector in any setting.
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post #11 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 11:49 AM
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I liked the UHD60 okay and the 50 is very similar. It will be decent at night when the lights are out, but don't expect good black levels at any time, but it has plenty of lumens and decent color with good sharpness and very affordable. You can also look into an ALR screen, which might help with viewing in ambient light, depending on the angle/where the light source is coming from and how the projector is mounted in relation to the screen. Once you get a projector setup, it would make sense to try and also install some blackout curtains if possible as this will help to get the best picture from any projector you go with.
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post #12 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 02:29 PM
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To achieve maximum brightness with a projector it needs to sit as close to the screen as possible.
The lumen value next to the name of the unit is not helpful, so you can get detailed info from reviews which have measured the unit output:

https://www.projectorreviews.com/vie...r-performance/
PJD7820HD Lumen Output at 100 IRE (wide angle on zoom):
Brightest= 3518
ViewMatch= 2748
Gaming= 2436
Movie= 1979
Dynamic Movie= 1979
User 1 (calibrated, based on Dynamic Movie)= 1460

Effect of zoom on lumen output (Brightest mode):
Zoom out: 3696
Mid-zoom: 3518
Zoom in: 3302


This Viewsonic unit is a very bright model.


Optoma HD142x:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/opt...ge=Performance
MODE Normal Lamp Eco Mode
Bright 2575 2060
Game
2365 1890
Vivid
1530 1225
Cinema 1265 1010
Reference
985 790

Probably one of the brightest units in your price range would be the Epson 3700:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/epson-3700-review.htm
Epson HC 3700 ANSI Lumens
MODE HIGH MED ECO
Dynamic 3438 3137 2306
Bright Cinema 2465 2249 1653
Natural
2588 2362 1736
Cinema
2439 2225 1635


However, as others have stated above, when ambient light hits the portion of the screen which is has dark/shadow details (i.e. the projector is NOT sending light) it will wash out the detail. It does not matter how bright the projector is.
How much it will wash out depends on how much light is in the room and from what angle.

Solutions:
-reduce ambient light in the room, from windows, lights,. Lights can be oriented in such a way that they don't shine directly on the screen. The walls can have dark paint or fabric. Blackout blinds for stopping window light.
-a grey screen will make the image darker by absorbing some of the light
-an Angular Reflective Screen (ALR) works by reflecting some of the light at the same angle that it receives it. So if there is lateral light it will reflect it to the other side. In order for you to see the image, the projector needs to be mounted perpendicular to the screen so that the light is reflected back to you. If there are any light sources from the same direction as the projector those will be reflected as well.

I've had great success with ALR fabric, but without any sources of light coming from the projector direction: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post57673262

An interesting thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...ey-screen.html
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post #13 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 03:38 PM
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@strife26 the advice being give is pure gold and you really should run with it. NO projector will give you what you want in the conditions you are asking it project in, the ONLY way to achieve this is by controlling the light in the room.

Blackout curtains is the first port of call followed by painting the walls as dark a colour as you feel comfortable with, ideally you should paint the ceiling too. Believe it or not once all these things are done you’d be amazed just how much that once you thought crappy projector now looks.

If you are remotely handy with a paint roller and brush all the above will cost you a couple hundred dollars...... way cheaper than a new projector that you’ll still be disappointed with and if doing the above to your room isn’t on the cards then go for the big TV option, the screen mightn’t be as big but at least the picture will look great.

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post #14 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
As everyone has stated, you can't fight physics, no projector on the planet will work well in dark scenes with a lot of ambient light period. All of your higher contrast projectors actually require a darker room to work well. Most bright projectors sacrifice their black floor to make them brighter and will help a lot in bright scenes like sports but will be even worse in those low contrast scenes in many movies.
Understood, but I watch it in both environments. I am not asking for theater level quality in daylight, just that I can watch it, instead of it being so dim that I can barely make out a picture, or something less exaggerated. The projectors I have owned have all been fine in daylight, well enough for me to still watch whatever I am watching, but of course washed out a bit from the ambient light. They were all "3k+" lumens, but as has been stated and confirmed I may have put too much emphasis into lumens count alone, but only because I was worried about worse performance during the day. Each time I look for a projector I loosely relearn about a lot more than I intended like the wheels and speeds and more and more, lol. I was just trying to get some opinions from those more familiar than I, but I am not looking to rework and paint everything as it's just in the living room. I am sure whichever option I choose will be watchable in daylight (not direct sunlight, just ambient daylight). We do also have black out blinds, but we don't always want to miss out on a good day, so we may leave them open some days. This isn't usually an issue.

That and was wondering if there are better options to consider under $1500. I just kept seeing the 2 Benq projectors being recommended time and time again so they were on my list, but if anyone can suggest better (not refurb or used as rdy to buy now) I'd love to look into those recommendations also.
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post #15 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by strife26 View Post
Understood, but I watch it in both environments. I am not asking for theater level quality in daylight, just that I can watch it, instead of it being so dim that I can barely make out a picture, or something less exaggerated. The projectors I have owned have all been fine in daylight, well enough for me to still watch whatever I am watching, but of course washed out a bit from the ambient light. They were all "3k+" lumens, but as has been stated and confirmed I may have put too much emphasis into lumens count alone, but only because I was worried about worse performance during the day. Each time I look for a projector I loosely relearn about a lot more than I intended like the wheels and speeds and more and more, lol. I was just trying to get some opinions from those more familiar than I, but I am not looking to rework and paint everything as it's just in the living room. I am sure whichever option I choose will be watchable in daylight (not direct sunlight, just ambient daylight). We do also have black out blinds, but we don't always want to miss out on a good day, so we may leave them open some days. This isn't usually an issue.

That and was wondering if there are better options to consider under $1500. I just kept seeing the 2 Benq projectors being recommended time and time again so they were on my list, but if anyone can suggest better (not refurb or used as rdy to buy now) I'd love to look into those recommendations also.
I think the UHD50 would do well with an ALR screen. It works OK for me on a ~145in grey painted screen, in daylight, if I keep the screen 1/2 of the room from being hit directly by daylight. A smaller screen should work somewhat better. I added black blackout curtains on the sliding glass doors at the screen end of the room and a curtain rod and black curtains on the opposite inside wall, and that made a dramatic different for less than $100. The inside wall curtains are kept retracted and tied off except when I view movies at night.

The UHD50 is also very quiet (inaudible really). It is quite watchable in bright mode, and gives good colour with the green gain at -4. in your case I might look at the UHD51ALV which is just at the upper end of your price range.
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post #16 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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@strife26 the advice being give is pure gold and you really should run with it. NO projector will give you what you want in the conditions you are asking it project in, the ONLY way to achieve this is by controlling the light in the room.

Blackout curtains is the first port of call followed by painting the walls as dark a colour as you feel comfortable with, ideally you should paint the ceiling too. Believe it or not once all these things are done you’d be amazed just how much that once you thought crappy projector now looks.

If you are remotely handy with a paint roller and brush all the above will cost you a couple hundred dollars...... way cheaper than a new projector that you’ll still be disappointed with and if doing the above to your room isn’t on the cards then go for the big TV option, the screen mightn’t be as big but at least the picture will look great.
Repeating myself here. I already have what I want; the 142x can be viewed with windows open and I don't mind the image. I don't disagree with the great advice, but I guess it wasn't clear. My last projector on the same screen did great, this one does great in daylight, and the ask was whether the lower lumen Benq projectors won't do so well (Because I was putting too much significance on the lumens count) due to lumens, but I was able to find some images on reddit and it looks about the same, so I assume Benq would do fine to view in daylight if/when we don't mind keeping the blinds open. It sounds like the Benq will have a better image than the 142x due to the wheel, so I still have it on my possible buy list.

The UHD50 seems like a good option, but I was worried if the image may not be great due to using it at less than "native" resolution since it's supposedly native at 4k resolutions. Is 1080p degraded at all, or is it fine? Or so that was my concern with getting the UHD50, but if I can easily view 4k via digital content (Netflix, Vudu <- my fav, and youtube, etc.) then I would think the UHD50 is maybe the best option, but I fear the "YOU CAN'T DO 4k WITHOUT SPENDING $1BILLION, 3 extra rooms, darken them, put seats on the ceiling and then it's real 4k backlash," so I've been afraid to pose that question, lol. Of course all the info is good info, but a lot of the posts I read go down that path where there is a lot more required than just pressing play on Netflix.

Again, thanks everyone for the info thus far, and know I am not disregarding the info, some of it just does not apply to my (maybe poorly) posed question.
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post #17 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by strife26 View Post

The UHD50 seems like a good option, but I was worried if the image may not be great due to using it at less than "native" resolution since it's supposedly native at 4k resolutions. Is 1080p degraded at all, or is it fine? Or so that was my concern with getting the UHD50, but if I can easily view 4k via digital content (Netflix, Vudu <- my fav, and youtube, etc.) then I would think the UHD50 is maybe the best option, but I fear the "YOU CAN'T DO 4k WITHOUT SPENDING $1BILLION, 3 extra rooms, darken them, put seats on the ceiling and then it's real 4k backlash," so I've been afraid to pose that question, lol. Of course all the info is good info, but a lot of the posts I read go down that path where there is a lot more required than just pressing play on Netflix.

Again, thanks everyone for the info thus far, and know I am not disregarding the info, some of it just does not apply to my (maybe poorly) posed question.
The UHD50 works best, IMHO, when fed upscaled 4K content. To that end I purchased a refurbed Sony X700 UHD BD player and I use it to upscale my DVDs, BDs, and streaming content, via it's streaming apps, and of course to play my 4kBDs as well. The UHD50 HDR sim mode works well with upscaled content. You can put the UHD50 into native 2K mode via the service menu but I've never tried it. I did try that on a Viewsonic Px747-4K and it seemed OK.

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post #18 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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The UHD50 works best, IMHO, when fed upscaled 4K content. To that end I purchased a refurbed Sony X700 UHD BD player and I use it to upscale my DVDs, BDs, and streaming content, via it's streaming apps, and of course to play my 4kBDs as well. The UHD50 HDR sim mode works well with upscaled content. You can put the UHD50 into native 4K mode via the service menu but I've never tried it. I did try that on a Viewsonic Px747-4K and it seemed OK.
Thank you, I think I am leaning towards the UHD50 now.
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post #19 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 10:47 PM
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Thank you, I think I am leaning towards the UHD50 now.
We're happy with ours, and I meant to say "native 2K mode" in my prior post.
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post #20 of 27 Old 07-20-2019, 11:59 PM
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Thank you, I think I am leaning towards the UHD50 now.
Generally LCD projectors are often a better choice in ambient light conditions. They do better because they can use their full brightness without loosing that color punch. The Epson 3700 is the brightest theater class projector in your price range as only business class can get brighter. It has better contrast then the 4K DLP's and is as bright or brighter in tests then the manufacture claims as all the DLP's are drastically inflated.
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post #21 of 27 Old 07-21-2019, 12:11 AM
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Just to echo what others are saying light control is the only way forward to getting a better image before spending more money on another projector.

Here is a video of just how damaging the surfaces around the screen are to image quality if left untreated.

https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/
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post #22 of 27 Old 07-21-2019, 03:33 AM
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Repeating myself here. I already have what I want; the 142x can be viewed with windows open and I don't mind the image. I don't disagree with the great advice, but I guess it wasn't clear. My last projector on the same screen did great, this one does great in daylight, and the ask was whether the lower lumen Benq projectors won't do so well (Because I was putting too much significance on the lumens count) due to lumens, but I was able to find some images on reddit and it looks about the same, so I assume Benq would do fine to view in daylight if/when we don't mind keeping the blinds open. It sounds like the Benq will have a better image than the 142x due to the wheel, so I still have it on my possible buy list.
Ok, I think the reason we have all stressed the importance of controlling the amount of light is it’s dramatic affect on blacks which you were complaining about. The problem is DLPs are generally very poor with contrast to begin with so this will be compounded with even more ambient light, but on the flip side they generally have a lot of lumens so they combat the ambient light to produce a brighter image though it’s ones with little or not real contrast. An alternative that might be worth considering is the Epson 4010 as it’s got 2400 lumens and half decent contrast plus it accepts 4-K and will e-shift to give the illusion of 4K. So it will fire a bright enough image to watch during the day but produce a more rewarding image when watching movies properly at night.

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Originally Posted by strife26 View Post
The UHD50 seems like a good option, but I was worried if the image may not be great due to using it at less than "native" resolution since it's supposedly native at 4k resolutions. Is 1080p degraded at all, or is it fine? Or so that was my concern with getting the UHD50, but if I can easily view 4k via digital content (Netflix, Vudu <- my fav, and youtube, etc.) then I would think the UHD50 is maybe the best option, but I fear the "YOU CAN'T DO 4k WITHOUT SPENDING $1BILLION, 3 extra rooms, darken them, put seats on the ceiling and then it's real 4k backlash," so I've been afraid to pose that question, lol. Of course all the info is good info, but a lot of the posts I read go down that path where there is a lot more required than just pressing play on Netflix.

Again, thanks everyone for the info thus far, and know I am not disregarding the info, some of it just does not apply to my (maybe poorly) posed question.
Don’t be worried of any of these projectors that aren’t Native 4K because they are 1080P at their core so with this format they will be excellent.

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post #23 of 27 Old 07-21-2019, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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And thanks again for the responses. I will look at the Epson 3700 and 4010 and do some research.

I will eventually upgrade my screen and setup, but I am waiting to buy a house before I get too serious. Right now I just have a screen in the livingroom as is. Usually the image is fine and I can make out scenes that are dark, but once I got the 142x I could no longer make out a lot of details in dark scenes on the same screen and set up as my last projector and this is why I am here complaining about it and looking for a better option. It of course could be my set up, but it was fine with the last projector so I figured it was the 142x's image that was the issue.
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post #24 of 27 Old 07-21-2019, 12:30 PM
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What mode are you running your 142x in when trying to compete with room light? It is an RGBCYW color wheel and if you are in eco/cinema you are barely getting 1000 lumens. That might be perfect for night viewing but if all you want is some contrast and color accuracy is out the window change the mode to normal/bright and get 2500 lumens.

How big is your screen?

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post #25 of 27 Old 07-21-2019, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
What mode are you running your 142x in when trying to compete with room light? It is an RGBCYW color wheel and if you are in eco/cinema you are barely getting 1000 lumens. That might be perfect for night viewing but if all you want is some contrast and color accuracy is out the window change the mode to normal/bright and get 2500 lumens.

How big is your screen?
I don't use eco mode on any projector so far. I have cycled through all the modes many times and sometimes the game mode might help a bit, but otherwise the scenes that would otherwise be fine are now just too dark to make out finer details. This didn't happen on my old projectors on the same screen and scenes.

I've messed with the brightness and contrast and I just can't get it to look good and show the finer details in dark scenes. Maybe it's me and maybe getting a new projector won't help, but I would be ok with that.
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post #26 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 11:12 AM
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How about a benq tk800?

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post #27 of 27 Old 07-28-2019, 07:43 PM
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this might be a possible solution



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