Thinking about a buying a projector - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 102 Old 07-21-2019, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
biglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Limerick, PA
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Thinking about a buying a projector

I have a movie room in my basement, and there are no windows, so it's pitch black. The walls and ceiling are painted with a color called Peppercorn, which is a very dark flat gray. The room is 13' deep, and 15' wide. I have 4 movie recliners against the back wall, that are directly facing the wall that my TV is mounted now. I currently have the XBR-65X850C, but I'd like to go bigger. I was looking at the XBR-85X900F, but I'm not sure if I want to spend close to $4k. My son was over and suggested I get a projector. I definitely want something that does 4k, and good HDR. I'm an avid PS4 gamer, and watch a lot of movies and sports. Also, where I would mount the projector, I'd probably need a 25' HDMI cable to get to my AVR, which is hidden in a closet. Are 25' HDMI cables good, or do you lose some signal with that long run? Are there some good choices for projectors that will fit my needs? I've never had a projector, so will I be happy with the picture, since I'm used to watching LED TVs? Thanks

Edit: After much reading, Id say my needs would be a projector that can handle 4k, that can produce the largest screen, for around 11' viewing distance, with a budget under $3k. From wall to wall, the room is exactly 12'7". I'm saying 11' viewing, because when sitting in my movie chairs, your head is probably at least 12" from the back wall, and the screen mount would come in to play also.

Last edited by biglen; 07-22-2019 at 12:33 PM.
biglen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 102 Old 07-21-2019, 06:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,386
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 538 Post(s)
Liked: 503
That room sounds like a good candidate for a projector for sure. I have a Sony Vpl-vw695es 4K projector that is throwing a 110” diagonal image from about that same distance (13’2” from wall to wall). In a light controlled room, it looks amazing! You may also want to check out the JVC NX5 or NX7, as they are great 4K projectors as well. Check the classified section as you may find a good deal on a used projector with a few hundred hours on the bulb. For a screen, check out Silver Ticket. As for a 25 foot cable, lots of folks have hdmi runs that long with no problems. However, do your research to make sure you get the right kind. There are quite a few threads in avsforum about the topic.
m0j0 is offline  
post #3 of 102 Old 07-21-2019, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rekbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somers, CT
Posts: 3,105
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1020 Post(s)
Liked: 528
It looks like you have the perfect room for a projector. You have two issues and the first understand a projector is not capable of displaying HDR like a TV it just can't get bright enough for the bright highlights. Projectors need to tone map the HDR down to the level the projector can display and some are better at this then others. Second if your an avid gamer many of the projectors are very high in lag so chose wisely. Your in the wrong forum if you want true 4K as they start at $4k and up. The Epson 5050 is a good place to start if you want to be under $3k as it has good lag and decent black level to take advantage of the well darkened room although it is only 1/2 4K resolution with a 1080p chip E shifted x2. For 1/2 that price a Sony 45es is the best choice although only 1080p will have a good picture as it also has good contrast and low lag. I would avoid all the 4K XPR DLP's as they are all high in lag and poor contrast although they do have the advantage as the sharpest for 4K but in my opinion contrast trumps resolution in a good room like yours by a large margin. If used is an option a JVC RS410 or better is the ultimate in contrast and are highly regarded as the best projectors by far for dedicated rooms.

EDIT: If you really want to experiment with a projector for a lot less invested get a BenQ 2050a or similar for under $700 and try it on a temporary screen or blank wall . Chances are you will be amazed with what that level will get you and never even consider a TV again or you will hate it and stick with the TV, I betting on the former. Upping the price for a projector actually gets you very little improvement for the amount of $$ you need to spend but once your hooked you can't help it.
sage11x likes this.

"Smart enough to know better, to old to care" ------ Dedicated Bat Cave Home Theater, JVC RS49U/Mitsubishi HC7900DW Projector, 110" 16:9 Jamestown screen with variable power masking for CIW 2.50:1 to 16:9, Marantz 7009 with 7.1.4 Atmos with Ohm mains,3 DIY Subs (2 15" (1 ported, 1 sealed and a 12" 4th order bandpass), 1 DIY butt kicker, Custom Built HTPC, 18TB DroboFS NAS

Last edited by rekbones; 07-21-2019 at 07:41 PM.
rekbones is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 102 Old 07-21-2019, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
biglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Limerick, PA
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 57
I'm seeing great reviews on the Optoma UHD60. I understand that it's not a true HD projector, but people are saying the picture is "stunning". I'm thinking that since my room is so dark, it might be a good option?



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
biglen is offline  
post #5 of 102 Old 07-21-2019, 08:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rekbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somers, CT
Posts: 3,105
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1020 Post(s)
Liked: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I'm seeing great reviews on the Optoma UHD60. I understand that it's not a true HD projector, but people are saying the picture is "stunning". I'm thinking that since my room is so dark, it might be a good option?



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
That's one of the XPR 4K DLP's and a first generation on top of it. Very poor contrast in comparison to the above mentioned projectors and fairly high in lag (>50ms?). As I said these 4K DLP's are very sharp with 4K material but the loss in contrast in a room like yours is not worth it in my opinion but others will always disagree. Real world native contrast for the UHD60 is about 800:1, the BenQ 2050a 1500:1, the Epson 5050 about 4000:1, Sony 45es 4000:1 and JVC's are at least 40,000:1

"Smart enough to know better, to old to care" ------ Dedicated Bat Cave Home Theater, JVC RS49U/Mitsubishi HC7900DW Projector, 110" 16:9 Jamestown screen with variable power masking for CIW 2.50:1 to 16:9, Marantz 7009 with 7.1.4 Atmos with Ohm mains,3 DIY Subs (2 15" (1 ported, 1 sealed and a 12" 4th order bandpass), 1 DIY butt kicker, Custom Built HTPC, 18TB DroboFS NAS
rekbones is offline  
post #6 of 102 Old 07-21-2019, 11:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
That's one of the XPR 4K DLP's and a first generation on top of it. Very poor contrast in comparison to the above mentioned projectors and fairly high in lag (>50ms?). As I said these 4K DLP's are very sharp with 4K material but the loss in contrast in a room like yours is not worth it in my opinion but others will always disagree. Real world native contrast for the UHD60 is about 800:1, the BenQ 2050a 1500:1, the Epson 5050 about 4000:1, Sony 45es 4000:1 and JVC's are at least 40,000:1
Both the Epson and Sony have measured more than your figures, in the case of the Epson up to 8000:1, of course the JVC has much more contrast so if he is trying to create something remotely similar to an OLED TV this is the only way to go but then again it’s approaching twice the price of the Epson.

If it’s your first venture into projectors and want 4K but also don’t want to necessarily spend serious money or replace it within the first couple of years for something better then I’d personally look at either a secondhand JVC DLA-X5???/7??? as they all accept 4K and offer amazing blacks and throw an amazing cinematic picture though aren’t quite as good as the latest PJs at HDR or you could consider the Epson 5050, it’s not quite as dark a blacks as the JVC but without side by side comparisons you wouldn’t feel short changed and it throws a very impressive picture with both SDR 1080p and HDR 4K contain.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)

Last edited by Luminated67; 07-21-2019 at 11:57 PM.
Luminated67 is offline  
post #7 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
biglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Limerick, PA
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 57
I'm getting really confused with all this info. So all the projectors that do the fake 4k, aren't really that good?

Last edited by biglen; 07-22-2019 at 06:04 AM.
biglen is offline  
post #8 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 06:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,386
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 538 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I'm getting really confused with all this info. So all the projectors that do the fake 4k, aren't really that good?

Most consumer or prosumer projectors are not true 4k. Only some of the newer Sony's and JVC's have true 4k panels. That's not to say that the eShift 4k projectors are not good. They can be very, very good and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, depending on the projector and the generation of eShifting technology you are talking about.
m0j0 is offline  
post #9 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
biglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Limerick, PA
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
Most consumer or prosumer projectors are not true 4k. Only some of the newer Sony's and JVC's have true 4k panels. That's not to say that the eShift 4k projectors are not good. They can be very, very good and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, depending on the projector and the generation of eShifting technology you are talking about.
What would be the best choice for an eShift projector ?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
biglen is offline  
post #10 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 06:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,386
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 538 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I'm seeing great reviews on the Optoma UHD60. I understand that it's not a true HD projector, but people are saying the picture is "stunning". I'm thinking that since my room is so dark, it might be a good option?



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



I had an Optoma UHD60 for about a year, so I can speak on this unit with some authority. It is a decent starter projector, but does not have good black levels. It is razor sharp and can be very bright, but there are better options out there now. I was considering the BenQ HT5550 and the Epson 5050UB on the DLP side and a used JVC NX5 or NX7 before I found a used Sony VW-695ES, so do your research and don't rush into it until you've had time to really understand the pros and cons of each unit and what is important to you.
m0j0 is offline  
post #11 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 06:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,386
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 538 Post(s)
Liked: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
What would be the best choice for an eShift projector ?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Here's a good thread to start with:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...r-one-get.html
m0j0 is offline  
post #12 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 06:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,386
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 538 Post(s)
Liked: 503
And this projector shootout by scottyroo...


m0j0 is offline  
post #13 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 07:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I'm getting really confused with all this info. So all the projectors that do the fake 4k, aren't really that good?
Don’t know why you are getting that impression, quite the opposite is true in fact.

These are images from my Epson.




The above are from a 4K Bluray, below is from a 1080P Bluray.




Bottom line is unless you are sitting unusually close to the screen the difference between Native 4K and e-shift 4K isn’t noticeable.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
Luminated67 is offline  
post #14 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
biglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Limerick, PA
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Don’t know why you are getting that impression, quite the opposite is true in fact.



These are images from my Epson.









The above are from a 4K Bluray, below is from a 1080P Bluray.









Bottom line is unless you are sitting unusually close to the screen the difference between Native 4K and e-shift 4K isn’t noticeable.
It just seemed like some of the suggestions were very expensive, so I'm assuming they are true 4k projectors. What Epson do you have ?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
biglen is offline  
post #15 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 08:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jeahrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 4,053
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2034 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
With a $4k budget I would look at the Epson 5050UB and the JVC NX5. The Epson will provide you an amazing picture for the money and come in below budget. The JVC will either be slightly above budget for new or slightly below B-stock. The JVC will offer native 4K and better contrast. The Epson can get brighter if you desire a very large screen.

Having seen several Epson 5040's (very similar to the 5050) and having owned a JVC RS520 (another projector that employs pixel shifting for 4K) I do think that even with a fairly normal seating distance native 4K is noticeable vs. shifting. However it isn't night and day. A lot depends on the mastering of the material.

Steer clear of the 4K DLPs. I've seen 2 examples now and both were very underwhelming. Poor contrast gives them a very washed out look that reminds me more of a conference room projector than a home theater projector.

jeahrens is offline  
post #16 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 08:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
It just seemed like some of the suggestions were very expensive, so I'm assuming they are true 4k projectors. What Epson do you have ?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I’ve got the TW9400 which is the 6050 in the US, it’s slightly better contrast than the 5050 but the difference is probably minimal. Here it the UK it’s been viewed side by side with the JVC NX5 by members on the UK forum AVforums and the Epson did remarkably well with most who seem these comparisons saying the Epson was as good and based on the price difference was the one most would pick. Of course UK and US prices are very different so you need to take that into account but make no mistake the Epson is an exceptional machine for the price

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
Luminated67 is offline  
post #17 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 09:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,789
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2108 Post(s)
Liked: 1061
You are getting a lot of advice on projectors and you are currently watching a 65” TV from around 11’ eyes to screen it sounds like. Your first thoughts were upgrading to 85” TV. And you are getting suggestions on projection in the 110-115” range that I’m sure feels huge coming from 65”.

Throw distance is measured from the lens of the projector to the screen surface and then you have the body of the projector plus the cables sticking out the back. So in a 13’ deep room you have about 1’ projector and 4” cables a little for the thickness of the screen so you can figure a throw distance of 11’6”. Then you have each projectors different zoom ranges and you come up with screen sizes.

As big as 110” seems at this time most here in terms of being cinematic and taking full advantage of 4k material its really a little small IMO. And when you consider watching a scope movie on a 110” 16:9 screen it will be like sitting in the back of a commercial theater.

I don’t know if you now watch everything lights out in your room well suited for projection? Or if maybe you would want to keep the 65” and have a roll down screen come down in front of it for projector use and lights out movie watching.

I like @rekbones earlier suggestion of the BenQ 2050 A (shorter throw) and maybe a 130-135” motorized screen leaving your Sony behind it for casual viewing. Remember how much of your source material will be UHD 4k. You could get into projection for under 1500 bucks and see how you like it. A year or two from now 4k projectors most likely will be much more mature with God knows what improvements and if you want to improve your system give the setup to your son and upgrade.

The technology of these tried and true 1080p RGBRGB DLPs is rock solid. I’m still enjoying one everyday with no immediate plans for 4k. Almost all the talk is 4k on the projector forums now, but there are still a lot of people quite happy with the 1080 tech playing blu-rays they rent from RedBox or stream off NetFlix. I watch OTA 1080 sports all the time on mine and it looks fantastic.

Just my thoughts if you maybe want to ease into projection and find out about immersive movie viewing.

Here is what 1080 OTA TV looks like on a 1080p RGBRGB projector I bought for under 500 bucks. Someone showed 4k .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8676.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	849.8 KB
ID:	2593434   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8698.JPG
Views:	35
Size:	676.5 KB
ID:	2593436  

Bud

Last edited by bud16415; 07-22-2019 at 09:35 AM.
bud16415 is offline  
post #18 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jeahrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 4,053
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2034 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

The technology of these tried and true 1080p RGBRGB DLPs is rock solid. I’m still enjoying one everyday with no immediate plans for 4k. Almost all the talk is 4k on the projector forums now, but there are still a lot of people quite happy with the 1080 tech playing blu-rays they rent from RedBox or stream off NetFlix. I watch OTA 1080 sports all the time on mine and it looks fantastic.

Just my thoughts if you maybe want to ease into projection and find out about immersive movie viewing.

Here is what 1080 OTA TV looks like on a 1080p RGBRGB projector I bought for under 500 bucks. Someone showed 4k .
With a budget of $4k there is no reason not to get into 4K. It offers an appreciable step up from Blu Ray. Though I agree that the 1080P DLPs are well sorted and in a lot of ways offer a better picture than their 4K brethren, the chance of rainbow problems is still a real concern. If buying sight unseen and sticking with 2K I would go for the Sony HW45ES. Better contrast, no chance of DLP rainbows, and better optics than most in the price bracket. But I still come back to the OPs budget. With that much you can get an amazing 4K picture so why would you settle for a lesser experience?

jeahrens is offline  
post #19 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 10:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 666 Post(s)
Liked: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
With a budget of $4k there is no reason not to get into 4K. It offers an appreciable step up from Blu Ray. Though I agree that the 1080P DLPs are well sorted and in a lot of ways offer a better picture than their 4K brethren, the chance of rainbow problems is still a real concern. If buying sight unseen and sticking with 2K I would go for the Sony HW45ES. Better contrast, no chance of DLP rainbows, and better optics than most in the price bracket. But I still come back to the OPs budget. With that much you can get an amazing 4K picture so why would you settle for a lesser experience?
I made the switch from Sony HW45es to the Epson and if you never consider playing 4K material it is without a doubt the way to go, it’s image is superb. The Epson is a minimal improvement with 1080p stuff but it’s the switch to 4K where I notice the improvement with a crisper image and even better colours plus it has slightly better blacks.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
Luminated67 is offline  
post #20 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 10:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,789
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2108 Post(s)
Liked: 1061
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
With a budget of $4k there is no reason not to get into 4K. It offers an appreciable step up from Blu Ray. Though I agree that the 1080P DLPs are well sorted and in a lot of ways offer a better picture than their 4K brethren, the chance of rainbow problems is still a real concern. If buying sight unseen and sticking with 2K I would go for the Sony HW45ES. Better contrast, no chance of DLP rainbows, and better optics than most in the price bracket. But I still come back to the OPs budget. With that much you can get an amazing 4K picture so why would you settle for a lesser experience?
I reluctantly posted my screen shots I took with an iPhone 7 in a dark room with the phone warning me I need a flash as screen shots are somewhat meaningless except they give a rough example of the loss in PQ comparing to the 4k HDR screen shots. I actually think most people would find both 1k, 2k or 4k images very enjoyable to watch, and without side by side comparisons wouldn’t care.

I was just pointing out if the OP was watching cable or Satellite or OTA TV he will most likely not be watching an HDR image. Around here most streaming is also compressed and limited in bandwidth and most media to rent is still DVD and some BD. I only have one UHD BD in my collection and I’m not about to re-buy the 1000s of disc I have any time soon.

As to rainbows with a RGBRGB 6x color wheel I don’t hear of many people suffering problems. In 16 years of DLP for me going back to a very bright RGBW XGA resolution as a first projector and at least a 100 people viewing my shows I only found one that saw just one rainbow early on. Every retailer of new projectors are more than happy to return a projector if you are unlucky enough to be seeing them.

I guess the budget issue is valid as he was planning to spend 5-6k on a new TV before his son mentioned a projector. At work we called that a cost avoidance and not necessarily a mandate to spend the money. But you are correct if he is now totally 4k in his life and has $4k waiting to go for a bigger image why not?

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #21 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 10:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jeahrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 4,053
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2034 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I reluctantly posted my screen shots I took with an iPhone 7 in a dark room with the phone warning me I need a flash as screen shots are somewhat meaningless except they give a rough example of the loss in PQ comparing to the 4k HDR screen shots. I actually think most people would find both 1k, 2k or 4k images very enjoyable to watch, and without side by side comparisons wouldn’t care.

I was just pointing out if the OP was watching cable or Satellite or OTA TV he will most likely not be watching an HDR image. Around here most streaming is also compressed and limited in bandwidth and most media to rent is still DVD and some BD. I only have one UHD BD in my collection and I’m not about to re-buy the 1000s of disc I have any time soon.

As to rainbows with a RGBRGB 6x color wheel I don’t hear of many people suffering problems. In 16 years of DLP for me going back to a very bright RGBW XGA resolution as a first projector and at least a 100 people viewing my shows I only found one that saw just one rainbow early on. Every retailer of new projectors are more than happy to return a projector if you are unlucky enough to be seeing them.

I guess the budget issue is valid as he was planning to spend 5-6k on a new TV before his son mentioned a projector. At work we called that a cost avoidance and not necessarily a mandate to spend the money. But you are correct if he is now totally 4k in his life and has $4k waiting to go for a bigger image why not?

I agree that suffering from the rainbow effect issue on DLP is rare, but if they don't have the ability to sit down with a unit before buying it's absolutely a concern. If they suffer from it, it's a show stopper.

No one is being forced to upgrade an existing catalog to 4K. And 2K looks no worse on a 4K projector (in fact it can look better). I would suggest that anyone interested in this hobby for the foreseeable future should be buying 4K UHD discs even if they are still using a 2K display. The UHD disc comes with 2K media and you will have content ready and waiting WHEN you make the switch. The cost difference to buy UHD now vs. re-buying down the road is WAAAAY less.

Again if they are budgeting for a high end display, why buy a less expensive projector that lacks a key display capability? I have yet to find a 4K disc that I prefer it's 2K counterpart to. This isn't a case of spending money because it's allocated, you are getting a substantially better picture here.
Luminated67 likes this.

jeahrens is offline  
post #22 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 10:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 746 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I'm seeing great reviews on the Optoma UHD60. I understand that it's not a true HD projector, but people are saying the picture is "stunning". I'm thinking that since my room is so dark, it might be a good option?



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I can recommend the UHD50 (which I have)/UHD51A and it throws a ~145in at 12'8". The picture is stunning and this is a very quiet projector. At 12ft you can get about 137in 16x9 image.

A big screen is the key to enjoying the 4K experience.

Last edited by DunMunro; 07-22-2019 at 10:57 AM.
DunMunro is offline  
post #23 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
biglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Limerick, PA
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
With a budget of $4k there is no reason not to get into 4K. It offers an appreciable step up from Blu Ray. Though I agree that the 1080P DLPs are well sorted and in a lot of ways offer a better picture than their 4K brethren, the chance of rainbow problems is still a real concern. If buying sight unseen and sticking with 2K I would go for the Sony HW45ES. Better contrast, no chance of DLP rainbows, and better optics than most in the price bracket. But I still come back to the OPs budget. With that much you can get an amazing 4K picture so why would you settle for a lesser experience?
My budget isn't $4k for a projector. I was saying I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend $4k on a TV. It would probably be easier to convince my wife if I spent less than $3k. I thought she was going to fall over when I showed her the 85" Sony price.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
biglen is offline  
post #24 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jeahrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 4,053
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2034 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
My budget isn't $4k for a projector. I was saying I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend $4k on a TV. It would probably be easier to convince my wife if I spent less than $3k. I thought she was going to fall over when I showed her the 85" Sony price.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
In the $3k or less range, the Epson 5050UB is the clear winner. There isn't anything that unit doesn't do extremely well. Less than $2K gets tougher. The 4K DLPs aren't good options and it's hard to endorse buying into 2K at this point. Perhaps the Epson 4010? Or if falling back to 2K the Sony HW45ES.

jeahrens is offline  
post #25 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
biglen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Limerick, PA
Posts: 843
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
You are getting a lot of advice on projectors and you are currently watching a 65” TV from around 11’ eyes to screen it sounds like. Your first thoughts were upgrading to 85” TV. And you are getting suggestions on projection in the 110-115” range that I’m sure feels huge coming from 65”.



Throw distance is measured from the lens of the projector to the screen surface and then you have the body of the projector plus the cables sticking out the back. So in a 13’ deep room you have about 1’ projector and 4” cables a little for the thickness of the screen so you can figure a throw distance of 11’6”. Then you have each projectors different zoom ranges and you come up with screen sizes.



As big as 110” seems at this time most here in terms of being cinematic and taking full advantage of 4k material its really a little small IMO. And when you consider watching a scope movie on a 110” 16:9 screen it will be like sitting in the back of a commercial theater.



I don’t know if you now watch everything lights out in your room well suited for projection? Or if maybe you would want to keep the 65” and have a roll down screen come down in front of it for projector use and lights out movie watching.



I like @rekbones earlier suggestion of the BenQ 2050 A (shorter throw) and maybe a 130-135” motorized screen leaving your Sony behind it for casual viewing. Remember how much of your source material will be UHD 4k. You could get into projection for under 1500 bucks and see how you like it. A year or two from now 4k projectors most likely will be much more mature with God knows what improvements and if you want to improve your system give the setup to your son and upgrade.



The technology of these tried and true 1080p RGBRGB DLPs is rock solid. I’m still enjoying one everyday with no immediate plans for 4k. Almost all the talk is 4k on the projector forums now, but there are still a lot of people quite happy with the 1080 tech playing blu-rays they rent from RedBox or stream off NetFlix. I watch OTA 1080 sports all the time on mine and it looks fantastic.



Just my thoughts if you maybe want to ease into projection and find out about immersive movie viewing.



Here is what 1080 OTA TV looks like on a 1080p RGBRGB projector I bought for under 500 bucks. Someone showed 4k .
So do I need to look for a short throw 4k projector, to do a 135" screen? If I'm getting a projector, I definitely want it to be able to handle 4k. I have the 4k Netflix package and Prime Video, so I have plenty of content.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
biglen is offline  
post #26 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 746 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
My budget isn't $4k for a projector. I was saying I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend $4k on a TV. It would probably be easier to convince my wife if I spent less than $3k. I thought she was going to fall over when I showed her the 85" Sony price.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I was in a similar position and I purchased a refurbed Sony X700 UHD BD player:

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/be...lu-ray-player/

to play 4K streaming content, upscale1080p streaming content, play 4K BDs and upscale my existing BDs and DVDs. This feeds video direct to the projector and audio to my amp. And I then tried out a refurbed Viewsonic PX747-4K but while it looked great with 4K content, it had a few nagging problems and I returned it and in favour of the UHD50 which has more than met all my expectations:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...D50-review.htm

So for less than $1200us I can enjoy 4K on a ~145in screen.
DunMunro is offline  
post #27 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jeahrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 4,053
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2034 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
So do I need to look for a short throw 4k projector, to do a 135" screen? If I'm getting a projector, I definitely want it to be able to handle 4k. I have the 4k Netflix package and Prime Video, so I have plenty of content.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
The Epson 5050 will get you 125" from 12.5'. An ultra short throw projector can get you a bigger screen, but I don't of any UST out there that approaches the picture the Epson will give you. I'd personally go for quality over quantity here.

jeahrens is offline  
post #28 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,789
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2108 Post(s)
Liked: 1061
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
So do I need to look for a short throw 4k projector, to do a 135" screen? If I'm getting a projector, I definitely want it to be able to handle 4k. I have the 4k Netflix package and Prime Video, so I have plenty of content.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
If you put much stock in the Carlton Bale chart and I don’t but most people do.

https://carltonbale.com/does-4k-resolution-matter/

At 12’ viewing 110” screen you are into the fully realizing 1080p beginning to see improvement 4k range. The OP had a 65” 4k TV that was way below any 4k threshold and that is what most people do. I don’t know anyone that watches a 65” TV from 3’ away but that’s the full benefit point of 4k with 20/20 vision.

Take a look at the link.

I haven’t studied all the 4k projectors as I said I’m an avid watcher or 1080p still, but I think in the sub 3000 forum the shorter throw 4k pixel shifting DLP projectors are limited to just one. The BenQ HT3550. The rest are 2k I believe. As mentioned above when you start talking projectors and HDR it becomes tone mapping as nothing has the blinding lumens or would you want them in a darkened setting with a screen that large.

Keep in mind projectors are not huge TVs. They are intended to be watched in the dark and with lumen levels that allow our iris in our eyes to open and take in the image in a much different way. Many people are trying to use them as giant TVs and expecting them to work that way with the marvels of modern screens. I think what attracted many to your thread was your description of your room and how well suited it is to FP.

If all your content is 4k and you are tempted to go larger in screen size then 4k is likely a nice thing you will want. That being said I have downloaded a lot of high resolution demo stuff off line and down converted it to play on my immersive projection 1080p and it is quite breathtaking.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #29 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,789
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2108 Post(s)
Liked: 1061
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
The Epson 5050 will get you 125" from 12.5'. An ultra short throw projector can get you a bigger screen, but I don't of any UST out there that approaches the picture the Epson will give you. I'd personally go for quality over quantity here.
I believe he is set up to throw in the 13’ room dimension.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #30 of 102 Old 07-22-2019, 11:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,539
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1011 Post(s)
Liked: 1205
I don't see any mention of budget a screen for the projector. Another factor in performance and screens are not inexpensive.


Lot's of info here: https://www.thescreeningroomav.com/blog
Rex Anderson is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off